United States Army cover-story William King Harvey?!

[Larry Hancock]

No problem with more detail on Harvey at Berlin Operation Base Paul, I have a good bit about that in SWHT 2010 including the appendix on Crossing Paths in the CIA - but beyond that I would recommend an excellent bio that anyone should read on Harvey - one which brings out his extended relationship to Angleton including letters shared shortly before Harvey's death that refer to the special secret the two men shared:  https://www.amazon.com/Flawed-Patriot-Rise-Legend-Harvey/dp/1574889915/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1ZU5ODARMT7YC&keywords=william+harvey+cia&qid=1688350087&s=books&sprefix=william+harvey+cia%2Cstripbooks%2C272&sr=1-1

 

[Paul Brancato]

11 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

No problem with more detail on Harvey at Berlin Operation Base Paul, I have a good bit about that in SWHT 2010 including the appendix on Crossing Paths in the CIA - but beyond that I would recommend an excellent bio that anyone should read on Harvey - one which brings out his extended relationship to Angleton including letters shared shortly before Harvey's death that refer to the special secret the two men shared:  https://www.amazon.com/Flawed-Patriot-Rise-Legend-Harvey/dp/1574889915/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1ZU5ODARMT7YC&keywords=william+harvey+cia&qid=1688350087&s=books&sprefix=william+harvey+cia%2Cstripbooks%2C272&sr=1-1

 

I wish you would share any surmise you have about that juicy special secret. I assume the book does not say more….

[Larry Hancock]

The book goes into detail on the exchange of several letters between the two, giving the text of some of them....which pretty clearly refer to one or more things they had been involved with but were not going to talk about openly even in letters.  Angleton seemed to have been more circumspect and as I recall he made the outreach - which is interesting giving earlier books on the CIA that tried to portray the two men as enemies or competitors.

We do know that Angleton assisted Harvey with the executive action program, at Harvey's request, and even provided some support for Harvey though his own contacts in Cuba, possibly diplomatic personnel in Havana - but we have no details. 

In Tipping Point I detail the reasons why I think it was Angleton's conversations with Harvey that helped stimulate plotting against JFK by WAVE and anti-Castro Cubans. That certainly would be something that they would not want to openly discuss, even if neither had been directly involved in the actual Dallas plot.

Certainly none of that is a substitute for actually getting and studying the book itself, which I highly recommend.

[Ron Bulman]

I've got Flawed Patriot.  Several years since I read it, I never studied it.  I should go back and at least peruse it with a "newer" perspective.  Stockton worked for Harvey in Berlin for two years.  If I remember right he was supportive of his former boss, Harvey's wife, who called the Kennedy's cockroaches in a video was a source.  Which I thought ironic considering the book mentioning Harvey screwing a secretary on a desk after hours. 

But yes, something about him and Angleton working together, philosophically aligned.

This comes into play in Albarelli's Coup.

[Paul Cummings]

Harvey and Angleton most likely had JEH by the balls.

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/3/2023 at 8:00 PM, Larry Hancock said:

The book goes into detail on the exchange of several letters between the two, giving the text of some of them....which pretty clearly refer to one or more things they had been involved with but were not going to talk about openly even in letters.  Angleton seemed to have been more circumspect and as I recall he made the outreach - which is interesting giving earlier books on the CIA that tried to portray the two men as enemies or competitors.

We do know that Angleton assisted Harvey with the executive action program, at Harvey's request, and even provided some support for Harvey though his own contacts in Cuba, possibly diplomatic personnel in Havana - but we have no details. 

In Tipping Point I detail the reasons why I think it was Angleton's conversations with Harvey that helped stimulate plotting against JFK by WAVE and anti-Castro Cubans. That certainly would be something that they would not want to openly discuss, even if neither had been directly involved in the actual Dallas plot.

Certainly none of that is a substitute for actually getting and studying the book itself, which I highly recommend.

Hi Larry.  I'm going to go back and peruse SWHT.  But I did look back in Flawed Patriot a little and have a few thought/points for all to consider.

First for perspective and context.  When Wilderness of Mirrors by David Martin came out Harvey's widow, CG, was upset over Bill's portrayal in it.  She took off around the country interviewing his old co-workers, friends and associates on tape.  She was going to set the record straight.  The CIA said hold on, we need to review what you have.  Nope, you can't use most of this, his files will be available in 2063. She destroyed it all.  Author Bayard Stockton, who worked for Harvey for two years in Berlin, it seems did get approval for Flawed Patriot.

One of the things CG was upset about was Martin's assertion that Harvey and Angleton were adversarial, competitive.  She claimed they were close friends who worked together.

On page 204 Stockton claims Harvey was not involved in the JFKA, and, that Angleton would not have approved of such.  Ah hem . . .

Then there is this from pages 116-118.  1961.  NSA conference on code breaking.  British invited.  Peter Wright, former British counterintelligence (MI-5) officer.  Two meetings with Harvey and Angleton.  Harvey, inquiring about assassinations, deniable personnel, SAS?  (British Special Air Service = US Green Beret's).  Wright, they can't be hired out but retired SAS personnel might be available to freelance.  If Harvey could get clearance from British Secret Intelligence Service (MI-6).  Harvey looked irritated.  Wright suggested the French might be useful.  Author Stockton found the suggestion "interesting".

Edited July 6, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[Matt Allison]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:25 PM, Steve Roe said:

Bill, I'm sure you will agree with me that David Morales had absolutely nothing to do with killing the President. Right? It's important to the conspiracy folks on this forum to make that clear so no false impressions are implied. 

Oh really?

Then did Morales explain to you why he bragged that he did?

[Matt Allison]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:10 PM, Larry Hancock said:

I even came across an FBI file which referred to Angleton as a source, giving him an FBI source designation.

Yes, the FBI spoke of Angleton in glowing terms here:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2023/124-10326-10098.pdf

[Ron Bulman]

21 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Then there is this from pages 116-118.  1961.  NSA conference on code breaking.  British invited.  Peter Wright, former British counterintelligence (MI-5) officer.  Two meetings with Harvey and Angleton.  Harvey, inquiring about assassinations, deniable personnel, SAS?  (British Special Air Service = US Green Beret's).  Wright, they can't be hired out but retired SAS personnel might be available to freelance.  If Harvey could get clearance from British Secret Intelligence Service (MI-6).  Harvey looked irritated.  Wright suggested the French might be useful.  Author Stockton found the suggestion "interesting".

Edited 21 hours ago by Ron Bulman

I think this is important.  Harvey and Angleton together, discussing assassination techniques and resources with a (retired) foreign agent in 1961.  They were comparing Cyprus with Cuba.  In the first meeting Harvey was drunk and obnoxious, testing, "would you hit him?".   He was sober and more courteous in the second, asking about the SAS.  

Again, this comes from a CIA officer who worked for Harvey for two years in Berlin.  In a book approved by the CIA.  Did Harvey and Angleton become limited hangouts after they died?

[Gerry Down]

23 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I think this is important.  Harvey and Angleton together, discussing assassination techniques and resources with a (retired) foreign agent in 1961.  They were comparing Cyprus with Cuba.  In the first meeting Harvey was drunk and obnoxious, testing, "would you hit him?".   He was sober and more courteous in the second, asking about the SAS.  

Again, this comes from a CIA officer who worked for Harvey for two years in Berlin.  In a book approved by the CIA.  Did Harvey and Angleton become limited hangouts after they died?

Wright wrote his own book. Haven't read it yet but if Wright mentioned the Harvey/Angleton meetings and the meetings content on assassination, then the CIA might as well approve "Flawed Patriot" as the content would already be public knowledge. 

Plus the Harvey/Angleton approach to Wright was prob not viewed as officially sanctioned CIA activity but rouge activity which the CIA officially did not approve of. Therefore it would not be their job to censor that activity as from their point if view it had nothing to do with them.

[Ron Bulman]

30 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Wright wrote his own book. Haven't read it yet but if Wright mentioned the Harvey/Angleton meetings and the meetings content on assassination, then the CIA might as well approve "Flawed Patriot" as the content would already be public knowledge. 

Plus the Harvey/Angleton approach to Wright was prob not viewed as officially sanctioned CIA activity but rouge activity which the CIA officially did not approve of. Therefore it would not be their job to censor that activity as from their point if view it had nothing to do with them.

Huh?  The only one Angleton answered to in 1961 was Dulles, the DCI.  If Angleton and Harvey met with Wright in 1961, I'd bet Dulles knew about it and approved.  I.E. the CIA approved. 

[Gerry Down]

3 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Huh?  The only one Angleton answered to in 1961 was Dulles, the DCI.  If Angleton and Harvey met with Wright in 1961, I'd bet Dulles knew about it and approved.  I.E. the CIA approved. 

Prob so, but officially they would say they did not approve. And would say they never knew of this meeting nor were ever told by Angleton or Harvey about it.

[Ron Bulman]

edit.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ron Bulman