The Pierre Lafitte Datebook: A Fake?

[Benjamin Cole]

When I ask if the Pierre Lafitte datebook has been independently verified by credible experts as an authentic period piece from 1963---and results placed online for all to to see---I receive hostile responses, and I am admonished to re-read certain threads. 

Which in reading are like trying to undo a pretzel inside a labyrinth in the fog. 

But surely a clean, concise, responsible answer answering queries about the datebook's authenticity can be written once, and thereafter cut-and-paste.

If the question about authenticity is asked repeatedly---which must be anticipated and happily tolerated---then datebook-backers can cut-and-paste.

This is not too much to ask for what is purported to be the most important doc-find in JFKA history.

Nor is it offensive to ask that further verification measures be undertaken. This is what any group of researchers would ask of any new important document, in any field. 

Mods: Perhaps the Lafitte datebook posts need to be consolidated. The datebook story is already hopelessly convoluted and circular, like a Mobius strip. I can't tell one side from the other. 

 

[Evan Marshall]

I bought the book and it twice and find it not trustworthy for several reasons. I have a meeting to attend so I'll have to get back to this. I had complex cataract surgery and then was out of town for an extended time for a family reunion way up in northern Michigan with no wifi.

[Benjamin Cole]

41 minutes ago, Evan Marshall said:

I bought the book and it twice and find it not trustworthy for several reasons. I have a meeting to attend so I'll have to get back to this. I had complex cataract surgery and then was out of town for an extended time for a family reunion way up in northern Michigan with no wifi.

Evan-

Good luck with the cataract surgery. Been there and done that, the good news is that such surgery is pretty much perfected by now (and I had it done under developing-nation conditions).

Add on:

The questions raised in the EF-JFKA regarding the authenticity of the datebook will be but a teaspoon to the Niagara of acid ridicule and feculent invective that may befall the datebook by the broader media, perhaps right around the time of the 60th anniversary of the JFKA.

I can see the headlines now. 

"Nazi Plot to Assassinate JFK Joins Alien Perp Tales." 

What better way to "debunk" possible Nazified elements within the CIA actually perping the JFKA than by creating a bogus datebook thereof? 

 

[Robert Montenegro]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:08 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

This is not too much to ask for what is purported to be the most important doc-find in JFKA history.

Nor is it offensive to ask that further verification measures be undertaken. This is what any group of researchers would ask of any new important document, in any field.

 

I agree with the two points you have made above, Mr. Cole.

 

These are completely logical questions, and are constant concerns of mine.

 

My mind constantly goes back and forth between the bias of my working relationship with Mr. Albarelli and my fear that he may have been duped by a Konrad Kujau-esque con-man working for some element of the intelligence community.

 

I would say that these questions apply for USAF Maj. Ralph Ganis—I mean, when the Hell are those purported personal documents concerning herr Skorzeny going to be published in a public, preferably academic, setting. 

 

I also can appreciate that time is not on our side—the facts, in my opinion, surrounding the murder of President Kennedy, are being suppressed, because if the facts were known, it would unravel a web of intrigue so vast and complex, that it would literally weave itself into every crime of state, from Iran-Contra, to the events leading up to 9/11, and beyond to the present day.

 

 

On 7/31/2023 at 6:25 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

What better way to "debunk" possible Nazified elements within the CIA actually perping the JFKA than by creating a bogus datebook thereof? 

 

That is a fever dream possibility that I have been living with for three long miserable years—what if that damn datebook is a "limited-hangout" of sorts, specifically engineered to throw the entire research community into a death-spiral.

 

Once again, I say that a believer in Mr. Albarelli's integrity and wit.

 

I nightmare scenario, to be sure, if that blasted Lafitte document is a fabrication—and the possibility that the Maj. Ganis' collection has fabricated materials in it as well...

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Benjamin Cole]

8 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

I agree with the two points you have made above, Mr. Cole.

 

These are completely logical questions, and are constant concerns of mine.

 

My mind constantly goes back and forth between the bias of my working relationship with Mr. Albarelli and my fear that he may have been duped by a Konrad Kujau-esque con-man working for some element of the intelligence community.

 

I would say that these questions apply for USAF Maj. Ralph Ganis—I mean, when the Hell are those purported personal documents concerning herr Skorzeny going to be published in a public, preferably academic, setting. 

 

I say all of this knowing the gargantuan power struggle at play concerning Mr. Albarelli's archives, which may have further support documents in them.

 

I also can appreciate that time is not on our side—the facts, in my opinion, surrounding the murder of President Kennedy, are being suppressed, because if the facts were known, it would unravel a web of intrigue so vast and complex, that it would literally weave itself into every crime of state, from Iran-Contra, to the events leading up to 9/11, and beyond to the present day.

 

 

 

That is a fever dream possibility that I have been living with for three long miserable years—what if that damn datebook is a "limited-hangout" of sorts, specifically engineered to throw the entire research community into a death-spiral.

 

Once again, I say that a believer in Mr. Albarelli's integrity and wit.

 

I nightmare scenario, to be sure, if that blasted Lafitte document is a fabrication—and the possibility that the Maj. Ganis' collection has fabricated materials in it as well...

 

 

Thank you for your earnest and illuminative answer. 

The documented, irrefutable work you have done on Nazi elements within the CIA stands on its own, and is peerless, IMHO. 

You have shed light on a depressing, unforgivable, sordid chapter in the CIA's history, a checkered history at best. 

There may be connections between the Nazified elements and the JFKA. 

In practical terms, how much would it take one former Nazi to trigger and enable a very small number of Cuban exiles to do the deed? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robert Montenegro]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Thank you for your earnest and illuminative answer. 

The documented, irrefutable work you have done on Nazi elements within the CIA stands on its own, and is peerless, IMHO. 

 

Thank you, I am humbled by your acknowledgement.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You have shed light on a depressing, unforgivable, sordid chapter in the CIA's history, a checkered history at best. 

 

The history is not checkered—it is, in fact, grossly documented—just go to the Freedom of Information Act Electronic Reading Room at the link below and type in ZIPPER or Gehlen, or Skorzeny, or AERODYNAMIC, or von Bolschwing, or any or the scores of fascist intelligence assets of the CIA, and you will see tons of pages verifying this history:

 

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/home

 

19 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

In practical terms, how much would it take one former Nazi to trigger and enable a very small number of Cuban exiles to do the deed? 

 

In practical terms—and this just my considered opinion, take it for what is worth—from top to bottom—to include the entire scope of the murder of President Kennedy, and the 180° of his entire foreign and domestic policies—about five-hundred, hardline, neo-fascist, Cold War hawks.

 

That is roughly a United States Army battalion at medium strength—a very small, compartmentalized network of zealots in well placed positions—small, considering the world population in 1964 was roughly four billion people. 

 

Now, as for the mechanical events of the shooters, spotters, radio-operators, security escape-and-evasion personnel and safe-houses—about one-hundred men or less.

 

That is roughly an understrength, United States Army company-sized element—extremely small, considering that a canceled, 1964 coup d'etat in Italy, code-named "Piano Solo," had over twenty-thousand knowledgeable participants!

 

The coup against President Kennedy was very small in comparison.

 

Once again, that is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth, obviously...

 

 

 

  

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Thank you for your earnest and illuminative answer. 

The documented, irrefutable work you have done on Nazi elements within the CIA stands on its own, and is peerless, IMHO. 

You have shed light on a depressing, unforgivable, sordid chapter in the CIA's history, a checkered history at best. 

There may be connections between the Nazified elements and the JFKA. 

In practical terms, how much would it take one former Nazi to trigger and enable a very small number of Cuban exiles to do the deed? 

I would recommend not thinking that because someone connects to Germany that they are a Nazi. There are books that say based on Permindex that Nazis are behind the assassination and other books use basically the same connections and say Israel is behind the assassination. I think both camps are wrong and there is something else that explains these connections.. 

https://twitter.com/dominique6138/status/1663805973058957312/photo/1

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKweissmanB.htm

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[Robert Montenegro]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

I would recommend not thinking that because someone connects to Germany that they are a Nazi.

 

I agree with that statement whole heartedly, Mr. Koch—yes, just because someone is connected to the country of Germany, it does not make them a Nazi.

 

Now, if that individual (oh, lets call him SS-Obergruppenführer Karl Friedrich Otto Wolff) were somehow a senior functionary of the Nazi Party and later became a close working associate of the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (oh, let's call this second guy Allen Welsh Dulles), I'd say then that there was some cause for alarm.

 

Plus, just because you are a fascist, does not mean you were a rank-and-file member of the Nazi Party.

 

Remember, the Axis Powers during WWII included thirteen member nations in the Anti-Komintern, and thirty-five émigré military units under the Ostministerium.

 

Fascism is not exclusive to the Germans...

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

Thank you, I am humbled by your acknowledgement.

 

 

 

The history is not checkered—it is, in fact, grossly documented—just go to the Freedom of Information Act Electronic Reading Room at the link below and type in ZIPPER or Gehlen, or Skorzeny, or AERODYNAMIC, or von Bolschwing, or any or the scores of fascist intelligence assets of the CIA, and you will see tons of pages verifying this history:

 

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/home

 

 

In practical terms—and this just my considered opinion, take it for what is worth—from top to bottom—to include the entire scope of the murder of President Kennedy, and the 180° of his entire foreign and domestic policies—about five-hundred, hardline, neo-fascist, Cold War hawks.

 

That is roughly a United States Army battalion at medium strength—a very small, compartmentalized network of zealots in well placed positions—small, considering the world population in 1964 was roughly four billion people. 

 

Now, as for the mechanical events of the shooters, spotters, radio-operators, security escape-and-evasion personnel and safe-houses—about one-hundred men or less.

 

That is roughly an understrength, United States Army company-sized element—extremely small, considering that a canceled, 1964 coup d'etat in Italy, code-named "Piano Solo," had over twenty-thousand knowledgeable participants!

 

The coup against President Kennedy was very small in comparison.

 

Once again, that is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth, obviously...

 

 

 

  

Excellent points. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:36 AM, Evan Marshall said:

I bought the book and it twice and find it not trustworthy for several reasons. I have a meeting to attend so I'll have to get back to this. I had complex cataract surgery and then was out of town for an extended time for a family reunion way up in northern Michigan with no wifi.

Waiting to see what you have to say. 

The author of the CID will not send a PDF to me so, with your permission, I may ask you a lot of questions. 

[Ron Bulman]

Fake news, eh?  Ask your questions, we all have freedom of speech.  Mr fake news may be guilty of more than a scrum.

Trump hit with sweeping indictment in alleged effort to overturn 2020 election (msn.com)

[Matthew Koch]

23 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Fake news, eh?  Ask your questions, we all have freedom of speech.  Mr fake news may be guilty of more than a scrum.

Trump hit with sweeping indictment in alleged effort to overturn 2020 election (msn.com)

Ron I think you are having a "Senior moment"..

This post is suppose to go in here 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Fake news, eh?  Ask your questions, we all have freedom of speech.  Mr fake news may be guilty of more than a scrum.

Trump hit with sweeping indictment in alleged effort to overturn 2020 election (msn.com)

RB-

This thread is about the possibility (some say near certainty) that the Lafitte datebook is a fraud. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Ron I think you are having a "Senior moment"..

Wisdom comes with age in some cases.  Maybe not mine, or yours.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Wisdom comes with age in some cases.  Maybe not mine, or yours.

From your lips to G-d's ears. I continue to invent new ways in which to bumble. 

Good luck to RB and everybody else.