David Talbot: Dulles Brothers "Nazi Collaborators"

[Ron Bulman]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:51 PM, Ron Bulman said:

"Kennedy confided to his closest aides - suggesting that day would come only if he won the executive powers of the White House."  Pg. 608. Sourced to "One of the things you learned", author interview with Adam Walinsky.

I took this to mean Walinsky was one of RFK's closest aides, speaking on behalf of himself and other close aide's when Talbot interviewed him.  He worked in the Justice Department when RFK was Attorney General, then was a speech writer for RFK during his senatorial campaign and after he became a senator, which he still was when he died.  I.E., he was still a "close aide" when RFK died.

Walinsky, Adam: Oral History Interview - RFK #1, 11/29/1969 | JFK Library

BTW, it said somewhere in all this that RFK did not like/agree with Sheridan's take down of Garrison/his case in NBC (?) in 1968.

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I took this to mean Walinsky was one of RFK's closest aides, speaking on behalf of himself and other close aide's when Talbot interviewed him.  He worked in the Justice Department when RFK was Attorney General, then was a speech writer for RFK during his senatorial campaign and after he became a senator, which he still was when he died.  I.E., he was still a "close aide" when RFK died.

Walinsky, Adam: Oral History Interview - RFK #1, 11/29/1969 | JFK Library

BTW, it said somewhere in all this that RFK did not like/agree with Sheridan's take down of Garrison/his case in NBC (?) in 1968.

Ron - any idea where you read that RFK had a beef with Sheridan over Garrison?

[Ron Bulman]

33 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Ron - any idea where you read that RFK had a beef with Sheridan over Garrison?

Yes, but I'll have to look for details.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Ron, So in page  608 of Devil's Chessboard, Talbot says it was Walinsky who confirmed that RFK was going to launch into an investigation into his brother's death? Do you have a  copy to confirm?

I'm a little confused. Or Is "One of the things you've learned" a separate title of an interview by Talbot with Walinsky?  

Thanks 

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

"Kennedy confided to his closest aides - suggesting that day would come only if he won the executive powers of the White House."  Pg. 608. Sourced to "One of the things you learned", author interview with Adam Walinsky.

 

[Paul Brancato]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:17 AM, Michael Griffith said:

I am not convinced that John Foster Dulles was a Nazi collaborator. I find the evidence that is cited for this claim to be unconvincing. Foster Dulles publicly advocated establishing a Jewish commonwealth in Palestine in 1944, and he played an important role in getting a plank in the Republican Party platform that called for a Jewish commonwealth in Palestine. I cannot imagine a Nazi collaborator doing these things. 

Yes, Foster Dulles briefly became critical of Israel in the 1950s as Ike's Secretary of State, but he soon abandoned his criticism of Israel after he dealt with Arab leaders, especially Nasser of Egypt, and realized they were fanatically unwilling to compromise with Israel, even unwilling to officially acknowledge Israel's existence. 

Kinzer cites the fact that in the early and mid-1930s, Foster Dulles supported investments and business dealings with Germany and, for a time, held a positive view of Hitler. This is a weak basis for calling him a Nazi collaborator. Quite a few Western politicians and businessmen initially viewed Hitler positively and supported doing business with Germany.

We must remember that Kristallnacht did not happen until late 1938, and the Holocaust did not start until after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941.

When Hitler revealed himself to be an evil monster, Foster Dulles changed his mind about him and became as anti-Hitler as anybody else; he also condemned the Nazi government even before the war started. 

Michael - Kristallnacht was not the beginning of anti Jewish laws in Germany. They started right out of the gate in 1933. Americans who continued to support Hitler’s regime in the years leading up to 1938 were at the very least turning a blind eye and weighing their business interests and their anti-communist sentiments above the Jewish question. 

[Paul Brancato]

8 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ron, So in page  608 of Devil's Chessboard, Talbot says it was Walinsky who confirmed that RFK was going to launch into an investigation into his brother's death? Do you have a  copy to confirm?

I'm a little confused. Or Is "One of the things you've learned" a separate title of an interview by Talbot with Walinsky?  

Thanks 

 

Kirk - would you mind sharing your general opinion of David Talbot’s books? I’m also curious what your opinion was of RFK in 1968 when he entered the presidential race? 

[Ron Bulman]

21 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Ron - any idea where you read that RFK had a beef with Sheridan over Garrison?

Well, I was quoting about them from Devil's Chessboard where I guess you could call it a "beef" is reportedly developed between RFK and Garrison by Sheridan.

But closer to what I said comes from Destiny Betrayed, pg. 257.  "Yet we know from Mort Sahl that Kennedy did not buy Sheridan's anti-Garrison special".  . . . 167.  Sourced to Probe (magazine), Vo. 4, No. 5. p.24.  Are the Probe issues accessible on line?  At K & K maybe?  I've never looked.  If someone wanted to know further detail they might dig a bit, maybe I will in a few days.

To fully understand this being addressed in Chessboard is a little longer quote.  Starting on pg. 267.

" But by 1967, emboldened by the growing campaign to reopen the JFK case and Jim Garrison's investigation, Bobby began to refocus on Dallas.  . . . after seeing Garrison's face on a magazine cover" . . .  He told press aide Frank Mankiewicz to read  all he could find on the assassination.  "so, if it gets to a point where I can do something about this, you can tell me what I need to know."  

"Meanwhile Kennedy sent his trusted friend and longtime investigator, former FBI agent Walter Sheridan, to New Orleans to size up Garrison's operation.  The buttoned-down ex-G-man took an immediate disliking to the flamboyant DA and reported back to Bobby that Garrison was a fraud.  Sheridan's take on Garrison, which was reflected in the harsh NBC New special that Sheridan helped produce in June-foiled Garrison's efforts to build an investigative alliance with RFK.

The Garrison camp implored Kennedy to speak about the conspiracy, arguing that such a public stand might even protect his own life by putting the conspirators on notice.  But RFK preferred to play such deeply crucial matters close to the chest.  He would reopen the case on his own terms, Kennedy confided to his closest aides-suggesting that day would come only if he won the executive powers of the White House.

"One of the things you learned around Kennedy, you learned what it was to be serious," said RFK's Senate aide Adam Walinsky.  "Serious people, when faced with something like that-you don't speculate out loud about it. . . .  He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

I've already sourced this above in the short version for Kirk.

[Paul Brancato]

17 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Well, I was quoting about them from Devil's Chessboard where I guess you could call it a "beef" is reportedly developed between RFK and Garrison by Sheridan.

But closer to what I said comes from Destiny Betrayed, pg. 257.  "Yet we know from Mort Sahl that Kennedy did not buy Sheridan's anti-Garrison special".  . . . 167.  Sourced to Probe (magazine), Vo. 4, No. 5. p.24.  Are the Probe issues accessible on line?  At K & K maybe?  I've never looked.  If someone wanted to know further detail they might dig a bit, maybe I will in a few days.

To fully understand this being addressed in Chessboard is a little longer quote.  Starting on pg. 267.

" But by 1967, emboldened by the growing campaign to reopen the JFK case and Jim Garrison's investigation, Bobby began to refocus on Dallas.  . . . after seeing Garrison's face on a magazine cover" . . .  He told press aide Frank Mankiewicz to read  all he could find on the assassination.  "so, if it gets to a point where I can do something about this, you can tell me what I need to know."  

"Meanwhile Kennedy sent his trusted friend and longtime investigator, former FBI agent Walter Sheridan, to New Orleans to size up Garrison's operation.  The buttoned-down ex-G-man took an immediate disliking to the flamboyant DA and reported back to Bobby that Garrison was a fraud.  Sheridan's take on Garrison, which was reflected in the harsh NBC New special that Sheridan helped produce in June-foiled Garrison's efforts to build an investigative alliance with RFK.

The Garrison camp implored Kennedy to speak about the conspiracy, arguing that such a public stand might even protect his own life by putting the conspirators on notice.  But RFK preferred to play such deeply crucial matters close to the chest.  He would reopen the case on his own terms, Kennedy confided to his closest aides-suggesting that day would come only if he won the executive powers of the White House.

"One of the things you learned around Kennedy, you learned what it was to be serious," said RFK's Senate aide Adam Walinsky.  "Serious people, when faced with something like that-you don't speculate out loud about it. . . .  He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

I've already sourced this above in the short version for Kirk.

Thanks Ron. Kirk assumed the source was Walinsky. It doesn’t say that. I think David Talbot is very credible, and don’t need to worry about who the source(s) were that confided this to him. If I was interviewing David I’d ask him who his sources were of course, as well as how Garrison reached out to RFK. When I read the book I found myself very sympathetic to RFK and to the Kennedy family. If Garrison told RFK he might be safer coming forward with his plans it looks in hindsight that he was right, but it might have made no difference. He wasn’t going to sit in the Oval Office, and he didn’t have to reveal his ‘plan’ - it would have been obvious.

[Roger Odisio]

51 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Thanks Ron. Kirk assumed the source was Walinsky. It doesn’t say that. I think David Talbot is very credible, and don’t need to worry about who the source(s) were that confided this to him. If I was interviewing David I’d ask him who his sources were of course, as well as how Garrison reached out to RFK. When I read the book I found myself very sympathetic to RFK and to the Kennedy family. If Garrison told RFK he might be safer coming forward with his plans it looks in hindsight that he was right, but it might have made no difference. He wasn’t going to sit in the Oval Office, and he didn’t have to reveal his ‘plan’ - it would have been obvious.

 

53 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Thanks Ron. Kirk assumed the source was Walinsky. It doesn’t say that. I t told theLarry King storyhink David Talbot is very credible, and don’t need to worry about who the source(s) were that confided this to him. If I was interviewing David I’d ask him who his sources were of course, as well as how Garrison reached out to RFK. When I read the book I found myself very sympathetic to RFK and to the Kennedy family. If Garrison told RFK he might be safer coming forward with his plans it looks in hindsight that he was right, but it might have made no difference. He wasn’t going to sit in the Oval Office, and he didn’t have to reveal his ‘plan’ - it would have been obvious.

Garrison was not just blowing smoke or trying to get Sheridan off his back.  I told the story on here a few days ago that I heard Larry King, the long time talk show host, talk about.  King was  driving Garrison to the airport.  When Garrison got out of the car, he turned back to King and said, they're going to kill Bobby too.  Garrison was plugged in enough to have a sense of the danger Bobby faced.

Sheridan was a minor figure in all of this.  Whether or not he convinced Booby that Garrison was a clown (I doubt it) doesn't matter much.  Bobby understood that a real investigation into his brother's death would require the power of the presidency behind it.  And even then it would be very difficult because of the power of his enemy. 

He knew the enemy well.  He had seen everything JFK saw. It's hard to imagine any two people being closer.  And so his first instinct upon hearing of the murder was that the CIA war machine, his brother had been fighting, did it.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

 

Garrison was not just blowing smoke or trying to get Sheridan off his back.  I told the story on here a few days ago that I heard Larry King, the long time talk show host, talk about.  King was  driving Garrison to the airport.  When Garrison got out of the car, he turned back to King and said, they're going to kill Bobby too.  Garrison was plugged in enough to have a sense of the danger Bobby faced.

Sheridan was a minor figure in all of this.  Whether or not he convinced Booby that Garrison was a clown (I doubt it) doesn't matter much.  Bobby understood that a real investigation into his brother's death would require the power of the presidency behind it.  And even then it would be very difficult because of the power of his enemy. 

He knew the enemy well.  He had seen everything JFK saw. It's hard to imagine any two people being closer.  And so his first instinct upon hearing of the murder was that the CIA war machine, his brother had been fighting, did it.

 

 

It does still matter if Booby was convinced by Sheridan that Garrison was a clown.  Sheridan was a CIA schill promoting the Shaw defense in New Orleans for them and destroying the Garrison investigation while investigating it for RFK.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Good work, Ron! Thanks! That's more what I remember. Your quotes from Devil's Chessboard answers most of the outstanding questions but this tape sequence here tends to completely muddle everything concerning Bobby reopening the case as President.

 

Walinsky: "One of the things you learned around Kennedy, you learned what it was to be serious," said RFK's Senate aide Adam Walinsky.  "Serious people, when faced with something like that-you don't speculate out loud about it. . . .  He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

 

Paul: Kirk assumed the source was Walinsky. It doesn’t say that

 

Paul, read what Ron wrote again. Walinsky is our only direct  source. That's exactly what it says. Walinsky alludes  to the idea that he knew Bobby was considering  launching an investigation but was well aware of the problems involved.

 

 

What's strange is Walinsky  is still alive and has been around many years and has been a very public figure. I don't why he would hold this as such a secret now for 50 years. If he were now to come out with the fact that Bobby had such suspicions he wanted to act on, it would probably be a good for RK's campaign. I'll grant the overall pickup wouldn't be much but the fact that RK's claims are not alone but was shared by his Father boosts his credibility.

 

Talbot is not a source, Paul.  Who else is a source here?  Yet curiously Talbot doesn't use his canon, Walinsky's quote but prefers to use, of all people Walter Sheridan's widow Nancy,  whose not even  a direct source!  And then he in essence further credits her by  crediting  Walter Sheridan, saying Bobby was using a "top investigator" in Walter Sheridan but doesn't mention to us (or RK?)  the context that Bobby used Sheridan to look into Garrison's investigation and that was, in essence a bust! And you're left to imply that RK and Sheridan were going to launch this case when they got into office. Anybody new to the case, would eventually find that a misdirection. 

 

 And this all leads to Talbot saying positively that Bobby was going to launch an investigation into his brother''s death  But even his best quote,  Walinsky's  only suggest  Bobby had  "an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency!" 

Which I'll tell you is true! Bobby would have more on his plate than any President since FDR! 

I don't buy that this was a foregone conclusion.

 

To answer your question Paul,  I gave you a thumbnail about what I think of Talbot on my first post, which is favorable.  We're all familiar with Talbot. If you stick with his passage from DC, you're pretty consistent. But about this clip, It's like a different person delivered it.  I'll just say, What a completely disjointed presentation.

 

 

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Good work, Ron! Thanks! That's more what I remember. Your quotes from Devil's Chessboard answers most of the outstanding questions but this tape sequence here tends to completely muddle everything concerning Bobby reopening the case as President.

 

Walinsky: "One of the things you learned around Kennedy, you learned what it was to be serious," said RFK's Senate aide Adam Walinsky.  "Serious people, when faced with something like that-you don't speculate out loud about it. . . .  He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

 

Paul: Kirk assumed the source was Walinsky. It doesn’t say that

 

Paul, read what Ron wrote again. Walinsky is our only direct  source. That's exactly what it says. Walinsky alludes  to the idea that he knew Bobby was considering  launching an investigation but was well aware of the problems involved.

 

 

What's strange is Walinsky  is still alive and has been around many years and has been a very public figure. I don't why he would hold this as such a secret now for 50 years. If he were now to come out with the fact that Bobby had such suspicions he wanted to act on, it would probably be a good for RK's campaign. I'll grant the overall pickup wouldn't be much but the fact that RK's claims are not alone but was shared by his Father boosts his credibility.

 

Talbot is not a source, Paul.  Who else is a source here?  Yet curiously Talbot doesn't use his canon, Walinsky's quote but prefers to use, of all people Walter Sheridan's widow Nancy,  whose not even  a direct source!  And then he in essence further credits her by  crediting  Walter Sheridan, saying Bobby was using a "top investigator" in Walter Sheridan but doesn't mention to us (or RK?)  the context that Bobby used Sheridan to look into Garrison's investigation and that was, in essence a bust! And you're left to imply that RK and Sheridan were going to launch this case when they got into office. Anybody new to the case, would eventually find that a misdirection. 

 

 And this all leads to Talbot saying positively that Bobby was going to launch an investigation into his brother''s death  But even his best quote,  Walinsky's  only suggest  Bobby had  "an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency!" 

Which I'll tell you is true! Bobby would have more on his plate than any President since FDR! 

I don't buy that this was a foregone conclusion.

 

To answer your question Paul,  I gave you a thumbnail about what I think of Talbot on my first post, which is favorable.  We're all familiar with Talbot. If you stick with his passage from DC, you're pretty consistent. But about this clip, It's like a different person delivered it.  I'll just say, What a completely disjointed presentation.

 

 

 

 

So if Talbots source was Walinsky, where does that lead you? Why is this important? Btw what was your 1968 opinion of RFK? 

[Roger Odisio]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Good work, Ron! Thanks! That's more what I remember. Your quotes from Devil's Chessboard answers most of the outstanding questions but this tape sequence here tends to completely muddle everything concerning Bobby reopening the case as President.

 

Walinsky: "One of the things you learned around Kennedy, you learned what it was to be serious," said RFK's Senate aide Adam Walinsky.  "Serious people, when faced with something like that-you don't speculate out loud about it. . . .  He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

 

Paul: Kirk assumed the source was Walinsky. It doesn’t say that

 

Paul, read what Ron wrote again. Walinsky is our only direct  source. That's exactly what it says. Walinsky alludes  to the idea that he knew Bobby was considering  launching an investigation but was well aware of the problems involved.

 

 

What's strange is Walinsky  is still alive and has been around many years and has been a very public figure. I don't why he would hold this as such a secret now for 50 years. If he were now to come out with the fact that Bobby had such suspicions he wanted to act on, it would probably be a good for RK's campaign. I'll grant the overall pickup wouldn't be much but the fact that RK's claims are not alone but was shared by his Father boosts his credibility.

 

Talbot is not a source, Paul.  Who else is a source here?  Yet curiously Talbot doesn't use his canon, Walinsky's quote but prefers to use, of all people Walter Sheridan's widow Nancy,  whose not even  a direct source!  And then he in essence further credits her by  crediting  Walter Sheridan, saying Bobby was using a "top investigator" in Walter Sheridan but doesn't mention to us (or RK?)  the context that Bobby used Sheridan to look into Garrison's investigation and that was, in essence a bust! And you're left to imply that RK and Sheridan were going to launch this case when they got into office. Anybody new to the case, would eventually find that a misdirection. 

 

 And this all leads to Talbot saying positively that Bobby was going to launch an investigation into his brother''s death  But even his best quote,  Walinsky's  only suggest  Bobby had  "an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency!" 

Which I'll tell you is true! Bobby would have more on his plate than any President since FDR! 

I don't buy that this was a foregone conclusion.

 

To answer your question Paul,  I gave you a thumbnail about what I think of Talbot on my first post, which is favorable.  We're all familiar with Talbot. If you stick with his passage from DC, you're pretty consistent. But about this clip, It's like a different person delivered it.  I'll just say, What a completely disjointed presentation.

 

 

 

 

It's not true that Walinsky is "our only direct source" of RFK's intention to reopen an investigation into his brother's murder. 

For example, Frank Mankiewicz, arguably closer to Kennedy than Walinsky, and Bobby's press secretary during the '68 campaign, knew. He was taken back when early in his campaign, Bobby told some college students that the archives about the murder would be opened, after steadfastly avoiding the topic for years. RFK had people looking into the murder, and had asked Mankiewicz as well to look into what happened so that he could focus the investigation once it was launched.

Junior says his father never believed the Warren Commission fairy tale. His first call was the the CIA to ask if their people had done it. He summoned john McCone to his home that afternoon and picked his brain for two hours. McCone was the puppet JFK appointed to replace Dulles at the CIA, but he was out of the loop.

But we really don't need Junior to tell us that, do we?  Bobby was there every step of the way with JFK.  He saw and heard everything JFK was confronted with.  It's laughable to even consider he would be fooled into accepting the obvious lies of the WR.

He knew who his brother's, and now his, enemies were and how powerful they were.  That wasn't any secret.  They murdered a popular sitting president and got away with it.  

When Garrison told Larry King that they were going to kill Bobby too, it wasn't because they disagreed with him about civil rights or tax cuts.  It was because, as Garrison almost certainly understood, they knew Booby was coming after them if he ever made it to the White House.

The killers had no doubt about RFK's intentions.  There is little reason for anyone to now doubt them.

The profound change in the direction of the country was already apparent in '68.  RFK knew how important it was to get to the bottom of his brother's murder before anything could be done about that.  No matter how "full" his plate would be as president.

[Kirk Gallaway]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

So if Talbots source was Walinsky, where does that lead you? Why is this important? Btw what was your 1968 opinion of RFK? 

Walinsky;He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

 

He's the only real direct source so far. That's why it's important. And he's talking about the problems involved in investigating. He's  not saying. we were definitely going to start an investigation into his brother's death.

I do agree with Walinsky, more than you do.

You do remember Paul.  I said,

Bobby would have more on his plate than any President since FDR! 

I don't buy Talbot's assertion that this was a foregone conclusion. No one can prove one way of the other.

 

Paul, I was in High School and  into Eugene Mc Carthy's anti war campaign. Then after the New Hampshire primary showed LBJ was weak because of the Vietnam War. Bobby entered the race. I was a little bit pissed because  Bobby was a johnny come lately to the anti war cause, but I was young and sort of facing that this was the way political things happen.  But I did regret that Mc Carthy was the first politician to make a political anti war movement, (sort of similar economically  to 2016 Bernie Sanders) and yet would be ultimately swept aside, but I knew the force was with Bobby, 

 

Then in the next few months, I liked where his campaign was going and what I saw was a change of consciousness , he befriended Caesar Chavez and he was campaigning in California a lot, and he was given the mantle of the poor and dispossessed, and not just the anti war movement. Being into both of them, and knowing Bobby was going to step on toes which is what I saw myself  sort of doing in my small way, I really looked forward to his campaign and beating Nixon again.

Actually a lot of politicians who were young at that time will say they entered politics because of Bobby Kennedy's influence including Biden.

 

Is that good enough, Paul,? Do i get to stay here? Remember your earlier comment. "What are you doing here?"

 

I've got a SF story for you Paul. I believe It was in October 1968, I remember going with some of my friends up to SF to see Eugene Mc Carthy. At that point people were badgering him to support Dem candidate Hubert Humphrey.

 

 All the state Dems were there, Pat Brown and Jerry Brown, Mayor Joe Alioto, John Burton and Willie Brown and I think Jesse Unruh,  My friends and I were all impressed how all these guys particularly Alioto look immaculate close up with every hair in place!. We were wondering if Mc Carthy would make news and throw his support to Humphrey, but he disappointed the party hacks and said he would not support any  candidate at that time. As I recall, he did support Humphrey maybe the day before the election.

 

[Paul Brancato]

16 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Walinsky;He had an acute understanding of how difficult that kind of investigation is, even if you had all the power of the presidency."

 

He's the only real direct source so far. That's why it's important. And he's talking about the problems involved in investigating. He's  not saying. we were definitely going to start an investigation into his brother's death.

I do agree with Walinsky, more than you do.

You do remember Paul.  I said,

Bobby would have more on his plate than any President since FDR! 

I don't buy Talbot's assertion that this was a foregone conclusion. No one can prove one way of the other.

 

Paul, I was in High School and  into Eugene Mc Carthy's anti war campaign. Then after the New Hampshire primary showed LBJ was weak because of the Vietnam War. Bobby entered the race. I was a little bit pissed because  Bobby was a johnny come lately to the anti war cause, but I was young and sort of facing that this was the way political things happen.  But I did regret that Mc Carthy was the first politician to make a political anti war movement, (sort of similar economically  to 2016 Bernie Sanders) and yet would be ultimately swept aside, but I knew the force was with Bobby, 

 

Then in the next few months, I liked where his campaign was going and what I saw was a change of consciousness , he befriended Caesar Chavez and he was campaigning in California a lot, and he was given the mantle of the poor and dispossessed, and not just the anti war movement. Being into both of them, and knowing Bobby was going to step on toes which is what I saw myself  sort of doing in my small way, I really looked forward to his campaign and beating Nixon again.

Actually a lot of politicians who were young at that time will say they entered politics because of Bobby Kennedy's influence including Biden.

 

Is that good enough, Paul,? Do i get to stay here? Remember your earlier comment. "What are you doing here?"

 

I've got a SF story for you Paul. I believe It was in October 1968, I remember going with some of my friends up to SF to see Eugene Mc Carthy. At that point people were badgering him to support Dem candidate Hubert Humphrey.

 

 All the state Dems were there, Pat Brown and Jerry Brown, Mayor Joe Alioto, John Burton and Willie Brown and I think Jesse Unruh,  My friends and I were all impressed how all these guys particularly Alioto look immaculate close up with every hair in place!. We were wondering if Mc Carthy would make news and throw his support to Humphrey, but he disappointed the party hacks and said he would not support any  candidate at that time. As I recall, he did support Humphrey maybe the day before the election.

 

Interesting last paragraph. It’s not too hard to see how distasteful it might have been for him to support Humphrey. Like Bernie supporting Clinton or Biden perhaps. 
one last clarification - do you think RFK ruined McCarthy?