David Talbot: Dulles Brothers "Nazi Collaborators"

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

That's the point. I don't know that anyone knows what precisely he uncovered.  

Which begs a number of questions: Is Robert Kennedy Jr. speaking as an authority on the campaign trail based on what his father uncovered? Did his father not get a chance to complete his private investigation but Jr. knows where it was headed so he feels confident enough to state unequivocally that THE C.I.A. assassinated his uncle? When did he first study his father's files?  Why hasn't he referred to them in the specifics?  Where are the files?  

RFK had one of his former lead investigators at the DOJ while he was Attorney General, Walter Sheridan, investigating his brothers death.  He did not know the depth of Sheridan's intelligence connections.  While Sheridan was investigating the JFKA for RFK he was sabotaging the investigation of Jim Garrison on behalf of the CIA and NSA.  There is a lot more detail to this, starting in Destiny Betrayed, second edition.  

Check out this short 2018 thread for some detail.  I'll preface it with a comment from it by Jim.

Most shocking of all, they never bring up the fact that he was chief of counter intelligence for the NSA. He therefore had to interface with Angleton.  Sheridan always kept that hidden.

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Yeah, but he's never offered any specifics and really doesn't allude to having any special knowledge.

And if those files existed, and were of any value that they could be used to buttress his campaign, why wouldn't he use them?

It would be big news here!.

[Leslie Sharp]

25 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

RFK had one of his former lead investigators at the DOJ while he was Attorney General, Walter Sheridan, investigating his brothers death.  He did not know the depth of Sheridan's intelligence connections.  While Sheridan was investigating the JFKA for RFK he was sabotaging the investigation of Jim Garrison on behalf of the CIA and NSA.  There is a lot more detail to this, starting in Destiny Betrayed, second edition.  

Check out this short 2018 thread for some detail.  I'll preface it with a comment from it by Jim.

Most shocking of all, they never bring up the fact that he was chief of counter intelligence for the NSA. He therefore had to interface with Angleton.  Sheridan always kept that hidden.

 

 

Right, Ron.  But I'm wondering if RFK maintained his own files and if so, where are they?

[Kirk Gallaway]

Ron, We already did the background with Sheridan and Garrison 

So  Ron, to clarify, This is your quote from Jim below . Whose here and undoubtedly reading this.

And yet apparently Talbot, who used Sheridan's wife as a source, doesn't know this or he would have told RK this, and told us this in the interview, because after all there's no point in keeping it silent,  if Sheridan is in fact, NSA and interfaces with Angleton, as Jim alleges. Right?

 

54 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Jim??: Most shocking of all, they never bring up the fact that he was chief of counter intelligence for the NSA. He therefore had to interface with Angleton.  Sheridan always kept that hidden.

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

It is my impression that RFK was doing mainly CYA after the assassination.  The purpose was to position himself to be elected.  Any connection to Lee Oswald, no matter how slight, or the underworld, even though he was basically prosecuting them, had to be demolished.  I see him as positioning his people to go after Jim Garrison's investigation for that reason.  It just hit too close to home.  

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

Deleted

Edited August 7, 2023 by Douglas Caddy

[Michael Griffith]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:00 PM, Michael Griffith said:

I agree that Allen Dulles can be called a Nazi collaborator, but I am not sure we can say this about John Foster Dulles. 

On 8/4/2023 at 8:52 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

Expand

I am not convinced that John Foster Dulles was a Nazi collaborator. I find the evidence that is cited for this claim to be unconvincing. Foster Dulles publicly advocated establishing a Jewish commonwealth in Palestine in 1944, and he played an important role in getting a plank in the Republican Party platform that called for a Jewish commonwealth in Palestine. I cannot imagine a Nazi collaborator doing these things. 

Yes, Foster Dulles briefly became critical of Israel in the 1950s as Ike's Secretary of State, but he soon abandoned his criticism of Israel after he dealt with Arab leaders, especially Nasser of Egypt, and realized they were fanatically unwilling to compromise with Israel, even unwilling to officially acknowledge Israel's existence. 

Kinzer cites the fact that in the early and mid-1930s, Foster Dulles supported investments and business dealings with Germany and, for a time, held a positive view of Hitler. This is a weak basis for calling him a Nazi collaborator. Quite a few Western politicians and businessmen initially viewed Hitler positively and supported doing business with Germany.

We must remember that Kristallnacht did not happen until late 1938, and the Holocaust did not start until after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941.

When Hitler revealed himself to be an evil monster, Foster Dulles changed his mind about him and became as anti-Hitler as anybody else; he also condemned the Nazi government even before the war started. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Kirk Gallaway]

Lots of blurriness, obstruction  and counter claims. Sheridan's ties to intelligence don't appear to be a great secret.

From Wiki

Sheridan joined the Federal Bureau of Investigation, resigning after four years over J. Edgar Hoover's focus on anti-Communism.^[4] As Sheridan later put it, "Hoover was more interested in guys who were Communists for 15 minutes in 1931 than he was in guys who were stealing New Jersey."^[1] He was then a National Security Agency investigator for three years.^[1][4]

Sheridan was an investigator for the United States Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in Labor and Management, recruited to its staff by Robert F. Kennedy in 1957.^[1][2] He was a regional coordinator for John F. Kennedy's 1960 presidential campaign, and a coordinator for the Robert F. Kennedy presidential campaign, 1968.^[4] After Robert Kennedy was appointed Attorney General in 1961, Sheridan became a special assistant to Kennedy working as the effective chief of a team investigating Hoffa and the Teamsters.^[3] From 1965 to 1970, he was an NBC News special correspondent, producing documentaries on crime and gun control among other issues;^[4] his unit received a Peabody Award for work on the 1967 Detroit riot.^[3] Sheridan also covered the 1967 prosecution of Clay Shaw by Jim Garrison, and in 1967 produced an hour-long special for NBC on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.^[6]

 

Ok, since we're talking about Talbot. Let's drop Jim Di's Sheridan's "clandestine" claims just for now.

 

The Sheridan  interview is at the very earliest a year after RFK's assassination, because he talks of Clay Shaw's acquittal. and his official story about the Garrison investigation is that it's a fraud.

 

So Talbot first informed RK about his father's investigation into the death of his brother using Sheridan whose official statement well after RFK's death is that he looked into Garrison's ongoing investigation and thought it was a fraud. And  then in 1967 produced an hour-long special for NBC on the JFK assassination essentially promoting the WC findings.  But he was then knowingly retained by RFK to be a major coordinator of his Presidential campaign in 1968!

 

And Talbot cites his source as an interview with Sheridan''s widow after Sheridan's death in 1995. But why cite that source at all if it Talbot had  had knowledge that Bobby had sent Sheridan to look into the Garrison investigation.

So he apparently didn't?

So to believe Talbot, the only explanation would be that Sheridan secretly continued his own investigation that produced such great results, that Bobby was encouraged to want to open a new investigation into his brother's death when he became President.

But if Bobby were to become President and execute this plan, wouldn't he look bad for quashing Garrrison's investigation earlier?

 

And there are no files.

What am I missing?

None of RK's initiation into the JFKA adds up well.

 

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

10 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ok, since we're talking about Talbot. Let's drop Jim Di's Sheridan's "clandestine" claims just for now.

Let's don't.  Where did you read or hear Talbot's source was Sheridan's widow?  I went back to Chessboard and the only reference to Sheridan, "Kennedy confided to his closest aides - suggesting that day would come only if he won the executive powers of the White House."  Pg. 608. Sourced to "One of the things you learned", author interview with Adam Walinsky.

As for Destiny Betrayed.  Pg. 255.  "Sheridan . . . worked for the FBI about four years.  . . . He himself said that like Guy Bannister, he had been with the Office of Naval Intelligence.  150.  From the end notes, Garrison, pg. 166.  checked, yep.

"After he left the bureau . . .  He moved over to the newly established (1952) National Security Agency."  151.  Source Jim Hougan, Spooks, pg. 124.  Which I don't have to check his source.

Pg. 256.  "While at the NSA, Sheridan was the Chief of Counterintelligence, Special Operation Division, working out of the Office of Security."  155.  Navasky, who I don't know of. pg. 456.

"Allegedly , at Sheridan's behest, Sheridan met Bobby Kennedy through a church friend.  This was when Chief Counsel Kennedy hired him as an investigator for the McClellan Committee."  Source, New York Times, 1/15/95.

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Where did you read or hear Talbot's source was Sheridan's widow?

So you haven't seen the video that is the topic of this thread? I gave you my source. It's Talbot himself at 4:44. 

I'll say it again Ron, Talbot credits himself in 2004 with being the first one to set RK straight about his Father suspecting a conspiracy. 

What you should have got , if you hadn't risen to defend to check every book source you could find,  is that there is a conflict between Talbot's opinion of Sheridan being a reputable source that Bobby was going to use to re open his brother's murder case when he became President, and Jim who claims that Sheridan is NSA, CIa because Sheridan  investigated Garrison and told Bobby that Garrison's case was a fraud and was a producer of an NBC documentary on the assassination. .

As far as Sheridan's connections to intelligence, I already laid that out for you and none of those connections were any secret.

If you're so incensed to be Jim's point man in this conflict, be my guest, but leave me out of it! 

All these issues I tried to spell out for you but you become too emotional to really read. 

Try watching Talbot's video and calmly read what I said again.

[Pamela Brown]

If Sheridan were to have claimed that Bobby would open up the investigation into the murder of JFK he probably would have just been trolling...

[Ron Bulman]

Kirk. I finally listened to the interview. It says he interviewed her but never relates it to Sheridan.

[Kirk Gallaway]

I hate writing out transcripts:  I did queue you as to where it is but.

To RK:  Talbot: "your father was working in secretly with some top investigators of his, like Walter Shreridan. I interviewed Nancy Sheridan, his widow. I knew RFK and Sheridan were looking into the investigation."

Why is he mentioning her at all if she's not a source?

It's actually a person and not "his closest aides" . Why didn't he mention the names of the aides?

But again you're missing the point entirely. Pam's weighed in. What do you say to this conflict? (below) It's as stark as day and night!

On 8/7/2023 at 10:36 PM, Kirk Gallaway said:

What you should have got ,  is that there is a conflict between Talbot's opinion of Sheridan being a reputable source that Bobby was going to use to re open his brother's murder case when he became President, and Jim who claims that Sheridan is NSA, CIa because Sheridan  investigated Garrison and told Bobby that Garrison's case was a fraud and was a producer of an NBC documentary on the assassination. .

 

[Pamela Brown]

Perhaps we are being distracted. Imagine, for example, a 3-hour saga about the Garrison investigation that includes not one mention of any of RFK's behind-the-scenes shenanigans...

[Kirk Gallaway]

23 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

On 8/7/2023 at 10:36 PM, Kirk Gallaway said to Ron:

What you should have got ,  is that there is a conflict between Talbot's opinion of Sheridan being a reputable source that Bobby was going to use to re open his brother's murder case when he became President, and Jim who claims that Sheridan is NSA, CIa because Sheridan  investigated Garrison and told Bobby that Garrison's case was a fraud and was a producer of an NBC documentary on the assassination.

What do you say to this conflict, Ron?

I understand Ron, too politically sensitive for the forum. This sleuthing thing can only go so far, right?

heh heh