Did the Plotters View RFK's Murder of Marilyn Monroe as Justification for Killing JFK?

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Sandy:

You are  correct on this.

 

Thanks Jim. Except the "gossip" came directly from Bobby's sister herself. As I said, just a joke.

 

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The whole thing about being "an item" was that Bobby did the Twist with MM at his sister's house in Santa Monica in 1962. Ethel Kennedy was there.

 

So even Ethel was there!

Ha! Oh Cory.......

 

[Cory Santos]

Awww, here we go.   

Again and again.   

[Cory Santos]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

So CS...you are proposing the Smith letter is evidence that Bobby K. and MM had been lovers?

No Joe, I did not say that.  Nor do I think any Kennedy killed her.  She was killed however.  
I am just getting a good laugh at the sleuths who refuse to acknowledge that Monroe’s death was not a suicide or that the Kennedy’s had zero relationship with her or that she was not being closely watched for a reason by the FBI.   

Edited October 28, 2023 by Cory Santos

[James DiEugenio]

To reply to these in order:

1.  As I have written and Dr. Boyd Stephens showed, the dozens of pills MM took in something like 36 hours were ingested not injected.

2. There is no credible evidence that Bobby Kennedy had any romantic or sexual relationship with MM.

3. Randy Tarraborelli,  for one, has said that the striking thing about the Hoover/FBI memos on MM is that they are so full of BS. 

Later on, some were clearly sourced to Frank Capell.  Which, if you know anything about the MM case, that guy was a rightwing loon.  He started the whole mythology.  He was later convicted of conspiracy to commit libel.

Edited October 29, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Cory Santos]

Go ahead.   Call each of these people XXXXX.   
 

 https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/03/marilyn-monroes-final-hours

[James DiEugenio]

Cory, here you go.  

https://www.kennedysandking.com/articles/marilyn-tony-summers-and-his-paper-tiger

 

And, if you missed it, Summers later said that she took her own life.

Today, his book, Goddess, looks utterly horrid.  He largely relied on three provable BS artists: Slatzer, Carmen and Smathers.  (I am not even counting Seaton.)

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Cory, here you go.  

https://www.kennedysandking.com/articles/marilyn-tony-summers-and-his-paper-tiger

 

And, if you missed it, Summers later said that she took her own life.

Today, his book, Goddess, looks utterly horrid.  He largely relied on three provable BS artists: Slatzer, Carmen and Smathers.  (I am not even counting Seaton.)

 

Jim this is what I mean.  First, on JFK you have no problem citing Summers.   However with Marilyn you think his research is garbage.
  
Second, he is citing these people from interviews he did.   So attacking the other writers still leaves the problem of where these many relevant witnesses which he cited in the article all XXXXX?

As to the article veering into the theories of the writers you noted, I fully understand and know exactly where that occurs.  But I do not throw everything out as you do with this issue.

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:24 PM, Cory Santos said:

Pamela, what is your opinion of the letter from Jean Kennedy Smith to Marilyn Monroe?

It is a bit of a puzzle to me.  There is no date,so we don't know just when this was written. From what I know of the Kennedys I would say this was some sort of a joke, but something they thought Marilyn might run with.  I can easily see this as dripping with sarcasm...

https://www.julienslive.com/lot-details/index/catalog/180/lot/82964/MARILYN-MONROE-RECEIVED-LETTER-FROM-JEAN-KENNEDY-SMITH

[James DiEugenio]

Cory:

If you have followed my writings on the JFK case you will see that today I barely use Summers' book.  I think its badly dated and the focus is very narrow.

That article I posted was not written by me, but I hope you read it, since it was written by Don McGovern.  Who I consider the best authority we have on MM.  And he skewered that article you posted. I am very surprised that you were not aware of that article prior to posting Summers.

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Cory:

If you have followed my writings on the JFK case you will see that today I barely use Summers' book.  I think its badly dated and the focus is very narrow.

That article I posted was not written by me, but I hope you read it, since it was written by Don McGovern.  Who I consider the best authority we have on MM.  And he skewered that article you posted. I am very surprised that you were not aware of that article prior to posting Summers.

I read it before.   We discussed it here on the forum as I recall.   

[Michael Griffith]

On 10/26/2023 at 2:42 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Mike,

Can you show me any proof that Kennedy was a serial adulterer? If you can't, then as far as I'm concerned that reputation is probably based on a bunch of rumors.

Holy freaking cow. I mean, you really must be kidding. So you and apparently Jim dismiss as mere "rumors" the hundreds of accounts of JFK's serial adultery, some of which come from family members and close friends, and some of them are firsthand accounts from the women themselves. 

Let me guess: By "proof" you mean actual photos or films of JFK committing adultery or a written confession from JFK? Well, if that's your standard, then, no, there is no "proof" that JFK was a serial adulterer.  

Well, heck, if that's the standard, then there's no "proof" that Joseph Kennedy was a serial adulterer either. 

I suppose that's another reason you and Jim like Don McGovern, who is so love-struck that he refuses to acknowledge that Marilyn Monroe was promiscuous (in fact, she was very promiscuous). 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Sandy Larsen]

17 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

So you and apparently Jim dismiss as mere "rumors" the hundreds of accounts of JFK's serial adultery, some of which come from family members and close friends, and some of them are firsthand accounts from the women themselves. 

 

Mike,

Hundreds of millions of people knew JFK. For there to be a hundred sources of mere gossip is very much possible and wouldn't surprise me a bit. For there to be dozens of women falsely claim to be a JFK lover also is very much possible.

But I would take a family member seriously. And even a close family friend, depending upon how they became aware of the affair.

So what did family members and close friends say?

 

[Michael Griffith]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Mike,

Hundreds of millions of people knew JFK. For there to be a hundred sources of mere gossip is very much possible and wouldn't surprise me a bit. For there to be dozens of women falsely claim to be a JFK lover also is very much possible.

But I would take a family member seriously. And even a close family friend, depending upon how they became aware of the affair.

So what did family members and close friends say?

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. I suggest you Google something like "JFK adultery extra-marital affairs cheating," and go from there. I would also recommend two recent books:

Incomparable Grace: JFK in the Presidency (2022), by Mark K. Updegrove.

Jackie: Public, Private, Secret (2023), by J. Randy Taraborrelli.

Have you heard of Mary Pinchot Meyer? Ellen Rometsch? Mimi Alford? Judith Exner? How about "Fiddle and Faddle"?

Do you know who George Smathers was? Ken O'Donnell? Dave Powers? They were all good friends of JFK's and acknowledged JFK's serial adultery. 

Were all the Secret Service agents who reported seeing JFK with other women lying? All of them?

[James DiEugenio]

Don McGovern and myself just dealt with this issue on the fine podcast That's Enough outta You.

The chief author of most of these allegations, including Jayne Mansfield, was David Heymann.

Heymann would collect obituaries from people in the Kennedy entourage and keep them in his files.  Because it is very difficult to sue someone over libel who has passed on.  He would then say that he interviewed the person and the person said he saw JFK en flagrante delecto with someone, sometimes a famous person and sometimes the person did not actually exist. He would just make up a name.

The remarkable thing about this serial fabricator is that the anti Kennedy engine in the publishing business was so prevalent that Heymann was then used by other authors. Incredibly, he was used by Evan Thomas in his biography of Bobby Kennedy.  BTW, Heymann tried to insinuate that RFK had a homosexual fling with Nureyev.

When Harris Wofford was trying to get his fine book about the Kennedy presidency published entitled Of Kennedys and King, he had problems because the first couple of publishers he went to said words to the effect, Can't you put some stuff in there about JFK and Marilyn Monroe or something?  Wofford said, I was with Kennedy for about two years and I never saw any of that.  So how can I write about it? This is how bad the publishing houses were and are. And this is how far the standards have collapsed.

But in reality, its even worse than that.  As Jim Douglass references in his book, Kennedy likely did have affairs with Exner and Mary Meyer.  But the whole anti Kennedy engine then encourages those stories to morph into something that did not occur.  In the first instance it was the whole thing about Exner and her messaging between the White House and the Outfit about the CIA Mafia plots and the elections in West Virginia and Illinois.  Which was complete and utter BS which Exner and the editors at Time Life simply manufactured.  This eventually blew up in the faces of David Westin and Peter Jennings at ABC when they were dumb enough to buy the broadcast rights to Sy Hersh's putrid book. Hersh claimed there was a witness to this, but the witness then backed out.  When the ARRB deposed him he denied he knew Exner and ever saw her doing this messaging.

The Mary Meyer thing is just as bad. TIm Leary said that Mary caused Kennedy's moves toward peace due to the fact that TIm was supplying her with acid and she was turning JFK on.  I am not kidding, and this was then reprinted elsewhere besides Leary.  Leary wrote this in 1982.  So I then spent two afternoons driving around LA to various libraries looking up every book TIm published from the sixties to that time, over 20 books.  Guess what?  Not one mention of it anywhere in those thousands of pages.  Hmm, why would he not mention it?  At least one of the books was like a diary. BTW, in that 1982 book TIm also said he had an affair with Marilyn Monroe.  LOL, ROTF.  Mary Meyer and Marilyn Monroe in the same book?

This is what I mean.  Its an industry.  And I will be writing about this in relation to the Monroe case specifically. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

Why is there hardly any mention of J. Edgar Hoover's scandalous sex life?

LBJ was a life-long sexual predator, even fathering at least one child by someone other than his wife Lady Bird.

It's never anyone but JFK, RFK, MM.