Did the Plotters View RFK's Murder of Marilyn Monroe as Justification for Killing JFK?

[Pamela Brown]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:07 PM, Leslie Sharp said:

Can EF experts on the topic comment on this infamous photo and the circumstances?  

https://time.com/5354958/marilyn-monroe-john-f-kennedy-photo/

It looks to me that the three of them are starting to realize the implications of what just happened...

[James DiEugenio]

1.  Cory, if  he never saw any evidence of an affair then that is it.  Period.  He is not, as you tried to suggest, in opposition to Hill, he is in unison with him.

2. Joe, are you serious? You never saw MM act in any of her films, like Gentleman Prefer Blondes etc?  Even Burt Reynolds, who knew her from her New York days said that one day they were walking down Broadway, and no one noticed her.  And Burt commented on that.  She then said: OK, now watch this.  She took her hair down and changed her walk and suddenly people did start noticing them.  Burt said it was one of the most immediate, sharp, yet subtle changes he ever saw an actress do.  MM really worked hard to master certain techniques to give an effective performance.  If you want to see how skilled she was, watch the skit she did with Jack Benny on his TV show.  Its on You Tube. And then watch the same skit with Mansfield.  Night and day. 

3.  And this is what I mean.  She was really good at putting on that persona.  Because, as I said, she was with her father in law (he is in those photos in Don's article) that night both before and after, who she really liked. She actually wanted him to return to LA with her. But for whatever reason he did not want to go. So she dropped him off in her rented limo in Brooklyn I think, and she returned to her apartment where one or two of her fans were waiting for her.  Even though it was late, she stopped and talked.  It was just them.  And then she went upstairs to her apartment.  And that was it.  Except I think her masseuse was there and that is how she fell asleep.

 

Pamela: In the uncropped version was Schlesinger in on it also?  Even though, as I prove above in number three, nothing happened?

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I agree. Whoever lured Marilyn into doing this performance was signing her death warrant, imo...

Who was it?   Peter Lawford? 

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

1.  Cory, if  he never saw any evidence of an affair then that is it.  Period.  He is not, as you tried to suggest, in opposition to Hill, he is in unison with him.

2. Joe, are you serious? You never saw MM act in any of her films, like Gentleman Prefer Blondes etc?  Even Burt Reynolds, who knew her from her New York days said that one day they were walking down Broadway, and no one noticed her.  And Burt commented on that.  She then said: OK, now watch this.  She took her hair down and changed her walk and suddenly people did start noticing them.  Burt said it was one of the most immediate, sharp, yet subtle changes he ever saw an actress do.  MM really worked hard to master certain techniques to give an effective performance.  If you want to see how skilled she was, watch the skit she did with Jack Benny on his TV show.  Its on You Tube. And then watch the same skit with Mansfield.  Night and day. 

3.  And this is what I mean.  She was really good at putting on that persona.  Because, as I said, she was with her father in law (he is in those photos in Don's article) that night both before and after, who she really liked. She actually wanted him to return to LA with her. But for whatever reason he did not want to go. So she dropped him off in her rented limo in Brooklyn I think, and she returned to her apartment where one or two of her fans were waiting for her.  Even though it was late, she stopped and talked.  It was just them.  And then she went upstairs to her apartment.  And that was it.  Except I think her masseuse was there and that is how she fell asleep.

 

Pamela: In the uncropped version was Schlesinger in on it also?  Even though, as I prove above in number three, nothing happened?

 

 

 

Jim it is simple.  As a trial lawyer I don’t get fooled with simple word games.    He said he had no knowledge of any affair but he could not say what happened behind closed doors.   Thus he could not rule it out and he left the door open.  That is convenient plausible denial.  He just did not have direct knowledge.   So as a trial attorney I recognize the game and I ask follow up questions.   What you are claiming as proof here is not proof.   
Furthermore it is a disgrace to her for you to call her murder a suicide.  Further you victim shame her by using her psychological issues as proof she was going to commit suicide.    This is a good victim shaming tactic but it is wrong. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Cory Santos

[Joe Bauer]

On 10/15/2023 at 12:10 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Joe, are you serious? You never saw MM act in any of her films, like Gentleman Prefer Blondes etc?  Even Burt Reynolds, who knew her from her New York days said that one day they were walking down Broadway, and no one noticed her.  And Burt commented on that.  She then said: OK, now watch this.  She took her hair down and changed her walk and suddenly people did start noticing them.  Burt said it was one of the most immediate, sharp, yet subtle changes he ever saw an actress do.  MM really worked hard to master certain techniques to give an effective performance.  If you want to see how skilled she was, watch the skit she did with Jack Benny on his TV show.  Its on You Tube. And then watch the same skit with Mansfield.  Night and day. 

Jim, of course I watched MM perform all the things you mentioned.

My wife and I watched the old Billy Wilder classic "Some Like It Hot" just last night.

We both really enjoyed it ( I don't often like to see older films again every few years unless they have something special that grabs me )  and I thought everyone was great in it.

The script ( intendedly silly fun) was well written in it's light comedy story line integrity and MM and Tony Curtis ( with really believable mutual attraction ) delivered it hotly and still with really good timing and pacing.

The pairing of Curtis and Monroe was the best of her comedy film roles. They complimented each other in many ways. Obviously both very attractive.

Yes, MM played the stunningly beautiful dumb blond again, but there was something more with her in that film role and other similar ones. Something hard to define.

And even that specific role takes talent to carry off.

I see real acting talent and thoughtfulness in most of MM's film roles.

Much more than I ever gave much thought to consider when I was younger.

Even her singing and dancing is quite good. Better than Rita Hayworth imo.

Like you said regards Burt Reynolds seeing a well thought out personae change in MM which immediately drew fan attention to her with a fascinating effect. A change that was very intelligently thought out and well practiced.

She created that worldwide successful iconic mesmerizing sex symbol character out of her own mind. No one could have taught her to be...Marilyn Monroe.

Yet, I still think her playing that highly exaggerated sex bombshell character to the hilt ( even more exaggerated than her comedy films imo ) and in that particular JFK birthday MSG venue was just a little too sexually suggestive ( almost porn?) and as such awkwardly miscalculated for the time, place and social setting.

It's one thing to see Monroe in a film where her role as such is expected.

However, I would think many viewers of her super hot JFK "Happy Birthday Mr. President" rendition wondered if it might have been more than a joke and maybe more personally invested...and even whether she was like that all the time?  

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

1. Signing her death warrant?  

Oh please. Gimme me a break.

Joe, the Benny show was not a film performance, it was simply a staged skit.  And she even brought in Daryl Zanuck.  

2. Cory, who was in the bedroom then?  And where was it?

Blaine specifies two meetings.  One at Krim's.  We know what happened there I described it three times.

He says the other one was at Peter Lawford's.  That was in public also.

So where is your cross examination headed?

 

BTW here is the Benny show.  She was just excellent in this.  

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

1. Signing her death warrant?  

Oh please. Gimme me a break.

Joe, the Benny show was not a film performance, it was simply a staged skit.  And she even brought in Daryl Zanuck.  

2. Cory, who was in the bedroom then?  And where was it?

Blaine specifies two meetings.  One at Krim's.  We know what happened there I described it three times.

He says the other one was at Peter Lawford's.  That was in public also.

So where is your cross examination headed?

 

BTW here is the Benny show.  She was just excellent in this.  

 

 

Thanks Jim.  I've never seen the JB-MM video, that's funny.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Ron. I agree,  MM's technique in this is first rate.

BTW, I think its the only TV performance she did.  Jack Benny was so thankful, he bought her a Cadillac.

Billy Wilder said about her that she was far and away the best comic actress he ever worked with. No one else was even close.

[Michael Griffith]

On 10/13/2023 at 3:38 PM, James DiEugenio said:

I don't have two standards.

I try and evaluate the credibility of people who say they are witnesses and find evidence to corroborate their stories.

Joe just mentioned the utterly preposterous Jeanne Carmen.  Carmen actually said that Johnny Rosselli murdered Giancana over Monroe!!!!  I am not kidding you can look it up.

But this is the kind of thing that Summers began by giving an utter screwball like Carmen space in his book.

As for this Bday party, I mean how often do I have to prove it? She came with her former father in law.  She rented a limo and drove him home to Brooklyn. She actually wanted him to return to LA with her, but he refused.  She then went back to her apartment where a fan of hers was waiting on her front step.  She talked to him. She then went upstairs, got a massage by her personal masseuse and retired.  

This is all proven.  Therefore the stories made up by the likes of Mark Shaw, and I think Blaine etc are all counter factual.

As you can see, this is the same method I use for JFK.  Credibility and corroboration.

Just to be clear here, you do acknowledge that JFK was a flagrant, serial adulterer, right? I'm not talking about the night of the birthday bash in New York after Marilyn sang "Happy Birthday" to him. I'm talking in general. You do admit that JFK cheated on Jackie many, many, many times, right?

And are you saying that JFK never slept with Marilyn?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Leslie Sharp]

On 10/15/2023 at 1:10 PM, James DiEugenio said:

1.  Cory, if  he never saw any evidence of an affair then that is it.  Period.  He is not, as you tried to suggest, in opposition to Hill, he is in unison with him.

2. Joe, are you serious? You never saw MM act in any of her films, like Gentleman Prefer Blondes etc?  Even Burt Reynolds, who knew her from her New York days said that one day they were walking down Broadway, and no one noticed her.  And Burt commented on that.  She then said: OK, now watch this.  She took her hair down and changed her walk and suddenly people did start noticing them.  Burt said it was one of the most immediate, sharp, yet subtle changes he ever saw an actress do.  MM really worked hard to master certain techniques to give an effective performance.  If you want to see how skilled she was, watch the skit she did with Jack Benny on his TV show.  Its on You Tube. And then watch the same skit with Mansfield.  Night and day. 

3.  And this is what I mean.  She was really good at putting on that persona.  Because, as I said, she was with her father in law (he is in those photos in Don's article) that night both before and after, who she really liked. She actually wanted him to return to LA with her. But for whatever reason he did not want to go. So she dropped him off in her rented limo in Brooklyn I think, and she returned to her apartment where one or two of her fans were waiting for her.  Even though it was late, she stopped and talked.  It was just them.  And then she went upstairs to her apartment.  And that was it.  Except I think her masseuse was there and that is how she fell asleep.

 

Pamela: In the uncropped version was Schlesinger in on it also?  Even though, as I prove above in number three, nothing happened?

 

 

 

Marilyn's expression is serious, perhaps perturbed. She is obviously speaking directly to Jack as Robert looks on. Neither of the men appear to be particularly at ease.  

Jack has ducked his head — either to hear Marilyn's whisper or to avoid her gaze completely.

Schlesinger stands several feet away so It's unlikely he can hear what's being discussed.  Considering their demeanor, there's something especially incongruous about his wide grin.

Regardless, his presence doesn't alter the tension in the body language, particularly of Marilyn and Jack.  

Do you know if this is the first time either of the brothers met her 'in the flesh?'

[Joe Bauer]

Whew, I seem to have gotten carried away with the MM story.

Like millions of others she had that big of an effect on me.

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

21 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Marilyn's expression is serious, perhaps perturbed. She is obviously speaking directly to Jack as Robert looks on. Neither of the men appear to be particularly at ease.  

Jack has ducked his head — either to hear Marilyn's whisper or to avoid her gaze completely.

Schlesinger stands several feet away so It's unlikely he can hear what's being discussed.  Considering their demeanor, there's something especially incongruous about his wide grin.

Regardless, his presence doesn't alter the tension in the body language, particularly of Marilyn and Jack.  

Do you know if this is the first time either of the brothers met her 'in the flesh?'

I agree with your reading of JFK, Robert K. and MM in that photo Leslie S.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Pamela Brown]

On 10/15/2023 at 4:38 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Who was it?   Peter Lawford? 

I don't think Lawford initiated the invitation, but I am sure he encouraged her...

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

11 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Yes, really funny. MM was something.

Jack Benny played his typical low key yet great timing and charmingly self-deprecating facial expression skit role perfectly. And MM the beautiful yet naive dumb blond one as well. Her comedic acting and timing talent showed and kept up with Benny's long career experienced stage skills.

I never truly appreciated the incredibly alluring magic of MM until now.

The woman was in another universe in the physical attraction beauty and sexually seductive charm area of our theatrical entertainment world.

No woman has ever come close to her sexual fantasy image influence power in Hollywood and the entire modern world of celebrity media.

Before, during and after her brief life until today!

And the truly amazing thing about MM was she was born who she was!

No plastic surgery. No artificial enhancement outside of hair color.

She was all au-naturelle!

A one in 100 million fluke of goddess level physical beauty nature.

I propose she was the most "perfect" female beauty human creation of our Homo Sapien species ever.

And her natural playfully feminine personality only enhanced her attractiveness to men which was already achingly primordial.

Michelangelo would have been inspired to create a statue of her to compliment his David one.

The ancient Greeks would have viewed her as a living Goddess "Aphrodite " with a thousand revering statues after her death.

Cleopatra wouldn't have stood a chance with Marc Antony if MM had caught his eye first.

Many female celebrity types tried to emulate MM like Jayne Mansfield and others. But none could come close to the sexual goddess beauty magic MM was naturally born with and playfully and seductively wove into our cultural mind set in her short time on this mortal coil.

What a gift to mankind she was.

Seeing her almost angelic like beauty was a viscerally felt antidote to the ugliness of the world. A living body antidepressant? In my mind anyways.

Guess you could say I am still obsessed by and in love with her.

As was Joe Dimaggio until his dying breath.

 

 

 

Marilyn did have plastic surgery that we know of on her nose, to remove a 'bulb' at the end, and to strengthen her jawline...

[Pamela Brown]

11 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I agree with your reading of JFK, Robert K. and MM in that photo Leslie S.

They definitely look uncomfortable to me...as though they were starting to perceive the implications of what had just taken place.  In that sense, it mattered not what had actually taken place between them, or not.  It was the public perception.  Anyone could see that tongues would be wagging and questions would be asked...and Jackie's absence spoke volumes, imo...