The exoneration of Lyndon Johnson?

[Pat Speer]

10 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Was watching an interview on the new Book channel just a week or so ago.

The book was about JFK's Viet Nam policy and the history of exactly what went down there right up until JFK's murder.

When the interview discussion reached the timeline of the Diem murder, the writer mentioned that Lucien Conein was the liaison in direct contact with the Generals who would take control once Diem was removed.

That mention of Conein and in that context stopped me.

I am not a student of Conein but have seen his name pop up often in the dens of debate and discussion here on the forum.

He sounds like he is in the same shady stuff milieu as people like Wild Bill Harvey.

 

As I recall, Conein and the Vietnam Chief of Station (John Richardson) were friendly with Diem, and had advised against  his overthrow. They were then bypassed by Ambassador Lodge and the state department hawks, who pretty much bypassed JFK as well. The famous article about the CIA running its own foreign policy in Vietnam was designed to force Richardson's ouster, and succeeded. (If I recall his son briefly joined this forum to defend his father.) 

In any event, it's all a bit blurry, but I'm pretty sure Hunt knew Conein was bitter about Diem's assassination, and thought that his showing them to Conein might spur Conein to discuss the faked cables publicly, He was successful. But he and Colson were out to hook Life Magazine as well, only the reporter balked when he couldn't have an expert examine the originals. 

[Joe Bauer]

How's this for just another of the "hundreds of examples" of LBJ's corrupt actions and how deeply he was connected to the wealthiest power people in Texas who facilitated much of that corruption.

It was all part of a cabal of almost unfathomable corruption running that state for decades.

Very soon after a jury found LBJ protege' Mac Wallace guilty of "murder with malice" in his brutal, broad daylight, witnessed by many killing of Austin Pitch and Putt golf course manager Doug Kinser, the LBJ owned judge immediately reduces the recommended typical long term prison sentence to only a 5 year probation one ( surreally outrageous ) with immediate release from custody !?

LBJ's long time close buddy wealthy Texas oilman D.H. Byrd (  the owner of the Texas School Book Depository Building ) then gives Wallace a manager salary job at his Ling-Temco-Vought corporation within weeks of his conviction for murder?

Wallace, a man with no specific background training and qualifications for the job and a known history of serious alcohol addiction and abuse?

And a job that required security clearance as "LTV" did contract work for our military and in secret project areas?

How could a man just convicted of "murder in the 1st degree" with malice just weeks before and with a known history of severe alcohol addiction and abuse pass any background clearance checks for such a job and company?

In LBJ's and Texas's hugely permeated world of corruption...no problem.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Robert Morrow]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:46 PM, James DiEugenio said:

William:

The 2 key pieces of evidence Nelson uses to incriminate Johnson are wrong.

As Groden showed in Absolute Proof, he did not duck down before the shots were fired.

And Joan Mellen demonstrated that the fingerprint that was recovered from the sixth floor was not Mac Wallace's and he was not in Texas on that day.

Does this mean that LBJ was not part of the plot or that he was not cognizant of it or was not in on the cover up?

No, it just means that those two pieces which are meant to directly implicate him will not stand up to scrutiny. 

Let me add, if you do not know, the book that started all this stuff about LBJ was something called A Texan Looks at Lyndon.  That book was brought out by the John Birch Society in order to help Goldwater get elected. It obviously failed in that attempt but it succeeded in becoming a huge bestseller, and many researchers used it as a source.  I always thought it was written at a decibel level that was over the top, as a John Birch Society book would be.

 

1) Lyndon Johnson was not ducking in the back of his car. LBJ, apparently was at the car door and Sen. Ralph Yarborough said he thought LBJ and Secret Service agent Rufus Youngblood were listening to a walkie talkie or radio turned down low.

2) The Mac Wallace fingerprints are in dispute. Some fingerprint examiners said it was his and others say there was not match. I personally doubt that was Mac Wallace's fingerprint.

3) The supposed 11-21-1963 Murchison party as described by Madeleine Brown never happened and it is pretty easy to prove Lyndon Johnson could not have been there. What is much more likely is that LBJ called Madeleine Brown early in the morning on 11-22-1963 from the Hotel Texas and made dire threats about the Kennedys.

4) The book "A Texas Looks at Lyndon" implies that Lyndon Johnson was behind a string of murders around people having knowledge of the LBJ-Billie Sol Estes connection. I think LBJ was indeed *probably* murdering those people. Estes later said that LBJ would put his hit men on military planes so they could travel around the country with no incriminating commercial flight records. Billie Sol Estes told an IRS investigator that he had given LBJ $10 million dollars in kickbacks, which is something like $100 million in 2023 dollars. I can believe that. The scale of LBJ corruption is vastly underestimated even today and even by LBJ biographer Robert Caro.

My personal belief is that Lyndon Johnson ordered Billie Sol Estes to murder Agricultural Dept bureaucrat Henry Marshall on June 3, 1961. Henry Marshall's death was an obvious murder and it was ruled a suicide by East Texas LBJ lackeys in Robertson County.

5) Lyndon Johnson assigned a Col. William Amos to remove the book "A Texan Looks at Lyndon" from every military commissary in the country. Col. Amos' widow Jan Amos, of Dallas TX, told me that in 2014 when I interviewed her. She also told me that her husband's boss Gen. Joseph J. Cappucci told her and Bill that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Robert Morrow
to fix a typo

[Robert Morrow]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:11 AM, James DiEugenio said:

This story turned out to be wrong.

Politico did the worst thing a zine can do, they based their story on a previously run story from England, which turned out to be a piece of sensationalism.

BTW, this kind of junk turned out to disguise what that book was really about.

Jackie Kennedy had some valuable insights into what her husband was doing with things like the Alliance for Progress. 

It took Monica Wiesak to quarry those out and put them in her excellent book America's Last President.

Jackie Kennedy, on the flight back from Dallas, referring to the murder of her husband JFK: “Lyndon Johnson did it.”

 Eddie Fisher (who once dated Pamela Turnure who wanted to marry him):

 QUOTE

           Pam was with the President and Jackie on that fatal trip to Dallas. He was assassinated on a Friday, November 22, 1963. Jack Kennedy and Pam had arranged an appointment for me with Vice-President Lyndon Johnson for the following Monday to discuss an effort I was leading to change our national anthem from “The Star-Spangled Banner,” which is very difficult to sing, to “America the Beautiful.” Obviously that meeting never took place.

          On the flight back to Washington after the murder, Pam told me, Jackie Kennedy told her, “Lyndon Johnson did it.” Words I’ll never forget.”

 UNQUOTE

 [Eddie Fisher, Been There, Done That: An Autobiography, pp. 257-258]

Edited December 15, 2023 by Robert Morrow
add some more info

[Benjamin Cole]

1 minute ago, Robert Morrow said:

Jackie Kennedy, on the flight back from Dallas, referring to the murder of her husband JFK: “Lyndon Johnson did it.”

 Eddie Fisher (who once dated Pamela Turnure who wanted to marry him):

 QUOTE

           Pam was with the President and Jackie on that fatal trip to Dallas. He was assassinated on a Friday, November 22, 1963. Jack Kennedy and Pam had arranged an appointment for me with Vice-President Lyndon Johnson for the following Monday to discuss an effort I was leading to change our national anthem from “The Star-Spangled Banner,” which is very difficult to sing, to “America the Beautiful.” Obviously that meeting never took place.

          On the flight back to Washington after the murder, Pam told me, Jackie Kennedy told her, “Lyndon Johnson did it.” Words I’ll never forget.”

 UNQUOTE

 [Eddie Fisher, Been There, Done That: An Autobiography, pp. 257-258]

I enjoyed your two posts, refreshing in their clarity when you suspect something happened, and when you are stating generally accepted as true. 

Excellent background  on LBJ. BTW, as I recall, the Marshall family later (far too much later) did get an official body in Texas to undo or reverse the suicide ruling on Marshall. 

BTW, I went to the LBJ School of PA in the late 1970s, lived walking distance from campus. There were some Texas natives in the class, and they often made cynical and joking comments regarding Texas politics, and people you are better off not crossing. 

I chalked it up to youthful excess...but now I wonder. 

 

[Joe Bauer]

Even LBJ's man on the Supreme Court (Abe Fortas - another fellow Texan ) ... was forced to resign due to a kickback scandal. 

When the big deal with Henry Marshall was his investigation into the huge funds Billy Sol Estes cotton kickback criminal enterprise and which most everyone now accepts as truth as being connected to LBJ in the form of kickbacks as well, it's obvious why he was murdered.

Marshall was not murdered for any other reason. Which  circumstantially could arguably point to an LBJ connection.

One of the most outrageous examples of Texas corruption was how any police agency investigation of Henry Marshall could conclude Marshall's death was a suicide and with no higher state authority questioning that finding for years.

Marshall was found severely, bloodily beaten. There was blood smeared on the side of his truck. There were signs of a struggle with disturbed ground.

Marshall had enough carbon monoxide in his system to knock out a horse.

Marshall had 5 bullets in him.

So, Marshall was somehow able to turn a rifle backwards, unload 5 bullets into himself, and when he couldn't die from that he staggered along to the back of his truck and rubbed blood on the panels as he did and also slammed his head into something to create bruises and injury and then finished his self-immolation by kneeling down and putting his mouth over his tail pipe end and deep-breathed himself into unconsciousness?

Was Marshall's truck found with the key inserted and turned in the running position? And found the next day simply out of gas?

Or, had the truck engine been turned off before Marshall's self-destruction binge?

 

▼ Primary Sources ▼

Henry Marshall

Henry Marshall, the son of a farmer, was born in Robertson County, Texas, in 1909. He studied chemistry at the University of Texas before becoming the only teacher at the Nesbitt Rural School. The school was forced to close in May, 1932, a victim of the Great Depression.

Marshall managed to find work at a Franklin gin company. However, in August, 1934, Marshall became a clerk with the Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA). He worked at the agency's Robertson County office. Marshall was a good worker and it eventually held a senior post in the agency.

In 1960 Marshall was asked to investigate the activities of Billie Sol Estes. Marshall discovered that over a two year period, Estes had purchased 3,200 acres of cotton allotments from 116 different farmers. Marshall wrote to his superiors in Washington on 31st August, 1960, that: "The regulations should be strengthened to support our disapproval of every case (of allotment transfers)".

When he heard the news, Billie Sol Estes sent his lawyer, John P. Dennison, to meet Marshall in Robertson County. At the meeting on 17th January, 1961, Marshall told Dennison that Estes was clearly involved in a "scheme or device to buy allotments, and will not be approved, and prosecution will follow if this operation is ever used."

Marshall was disturbed that as a result of sending a report of his meeting to Washington, he was offered a new post at headquarters. He assumed that Billie Sol Estes had friends in high places and that they wanted him removed from the field office in Robertson County. Marshall refused what he considered to be a bribe.

A week after the meeting between Marshall and Dennison, A. B. Foster, manager of Billie Sol Enterprises, wrote to Clifton C. Carter, a close aide to Lyndon B. Johnson, telling him about the problems that Marshall was causing the company. Foster wrote that "we would sincerely appreciate your investigating this and seeing if anything can be done."

Over the next few months Marshall had meetings with eleven county committees in Texas. He pointed out that Billie Sol Estes scheme to buy cotton allotments were illegal. This information was then communicated to those farmers who had been sold their cotton allotments to Billie Sol Enterprises.

On 3rd June, 1961, Marshall was found dead on his farm by the side of his Chevy Fleetside pickup truck. His rifle lay beside him. He had been shot five times with his own rifle. Soon after County Sheriff Howard Stegall arrived, he decreed that Marshall had committed suicide. No pictures were taken of the crime scene, no blood samples were taken of the stains on the truck (the truck was washed and waxed the following day), no check for fingerprints were made on the rifle or pickup.

Marshall's wife (Sybil Marshall) and brother (Robert Marshall) refused to believe he had committed suicide and posted a $2,000 reward for information leading to a murder conviction. The undertaker, Manley Jones, also reported: "To me it looked like murder. I just do not believe a man could shoot himself like that." The undertaker's son, Raymond Jones, later told the journalist, Bill Adler in 1986: "Daddy said he told Judge Farmer there was no way Mr. Marshall could have killed himself. Daddy had seen suicides before. JPs depend on us and our judgments about such things. we see a lot more deaths than they do. But in this case, Daddy said, Judge Farmer told him he was going to put suicide on the death certificate because the sheriff told him to." As a result, Lee Farmer returned a suicide verdict: "death by gunshot, self-inflicted."

Sybil Marshall hired an attorney, W. S. Barron, in order to persuade the Robertson County authorities to change the ruling on Marshall's cause of death. One man who did believe that Marshall had been murdered was Texas Ranger Clint Peoples. He had reported to Colonel Homer Garrison, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, that it "would have been utterly impossible for Mr. Marshall to have taken his own life."

Peoples also interviewed Nolan Griffin, a gas station attendant in Robertson County. Griffin claimed that on the day of Marshall's death, he had been asked by a stranger for directions to Marshall's farm. A Texas Ranger artist, Thadd Johnson, drew a facial sketch based on a description given by Griffin. Peoples eventually came to the conclusion that this man was Mac Wallace, the convicted murderer of John Kinser.

In the spring of 1962, Billie Sol Estes was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation on fraud and conspiracy charges. Soon afterwards it was disclosed by the Secretary of Agriculture, Orville L. Freeman, that Henry Marshall had been a key figure in the investigation into the illegal activities of Billie Sol Estes. As a result, the Robertson County grand jury ordered that the body of Marshall should be exhumed and an autopsy performed. After eight hours of examination, Dr. Joseph A. Jachimczyk confirmed that Marshall had not committed suicide. Jachimczyk also discovered a 15 percent carbon monoxide concentration in Marshall's body. Jachimczyk calculated that it could have been as high as 30 percent at the time of death.

Assassination of John F. Kennedy Encyclopedia

On 4th April, 1962, George Krutilek, Estes chief accountant, was found dead. Despite a severe bruise on Krutilek's head, the coroner decided that he had also committed suicide. The next day, Estes, and three business associates, were indicted by a federal grand jury on 57 counts of fraud. Two of these men, Harold Orr and Coleman Wade, later died in suspicious circumstances. At the time it was said they committed suicide but later Estes was to claim that both men were murdered by Mac Wallace in order to protect the political career of Lyndon B. Johnson.

The Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations also began to look into the case of Billie Sol Estes. Leonard C. Williams, a former assistant to Henry Marshall, testified about the evidence the department acquired against Estes. Orville L. Freeman also admitted that Marshall was a man "who left this world under questioned circumstances."

It was eventually discovered that three officials of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration in Washington had received bribes from Billie Sol Estes. Red Jacobs, Jim Ralph and Bill Morris were eventually removed from their jobs. However, further disclosures suggested that the Secretary of Agriculture, might be involved in the scam. In September, 1961, Billie Sol Estes had been fined $42,000 for illegal cotton allotments. Two months later, Freeman appointed Estes to the National Cotton Advisory Board.

It was also revealed that Billie Sol Estes told Wilson C. Tucker, deputy director of the Agriculture Department's cotton division, on 1st August, 1961, that he threatened to "embarrass the Kennedy administration if the investigation were not halted". Tucker went onto testify: "Estes stated that this pooled cotton allotment matter had caused the death of one person and then asked me if I knew Henry Marshall". As Tucker pointed out, this was six months before questions about Marshall's death had been raised publicly.

However, the cover-up continued. Tommy G. McWilliams, the FBI agent in charge of the Henry Marshall investigation, came to the conclusion that Marshall had indeed committed suicide. He wrote: "My theory was that he shot himself and then realized he wasn't dead." He then claimed that he then tried to kill himself by inhaling carbon monoxide from the exhaust pipe of his truck. McWilliams claimed that Marshall had used his shirt to make a hood over the exhaust pipe. Even J. Edgar Hoover was not impressed with this theory. He wrote on 21st May, 1962: "I just can't understand how one can fire five shots at himself."

Joseph A. Jachimczyk also disagreed with the FBI report. He believed that the bruise on Marshall's forehead had been caused by a "severe blow to the head". Jachimczyk also rejected the idea that Marshall had used his shirt as a hood. He pointed out that "if this were done, soot must have necessarily been found on the shirt; no such was found."

The Robertson County grand jury continued to investigate the death of Henry Marshall. However, some observers were disturbed by the news that grand jury member, Pryse Metcalfe, was dominating proceedings. Metcalfe was County Sheriff Howard Stegall's son-in-law.

On 1st June, 1962, the Dallas Morning News reported that President John F. Kennedy had "taken a personal interest in the mysterious death of Henry Marshall." As a result, the story said, Robert Kennedy "has ordered the FBI to step up its investigation of the case."

In June, 1962, Billie Sol Estes, appeared before the grand jury. He was accompanied by John Cofer, a lawyer who represented Lyndon B. Johnson when he was accused of ballot-rigging when elected to the Senate in 1948 and Mac Wallace when he was charged with the murder of John Kinser. Billie Sol Estes spent almost two hours before the grand jury, but he invoked the Texas version of the Fifth Amendment and refused to answer most questions on grounds that he might incriminate himself.

Tommy G. McWilliams of the FBI also appeared before the grand jury and put forward the theory that Henry Marshall had committed suicide. Dr. Joseph A. Jachimczyk also testified that "if in fact this is a suicide, it is the most unusual one I have seen during the examination of approximately 15,000 deceased persons."

McWilliams did admit that it was "hard to kill yourself with a bolt-action 22". This view was shared by John McClellan, a member of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. He posed for photographs with a .22 caliber rifle similar to Marshall's. McClellan pointed out: "It doesn't take many deductions to come to the irrevocable conclusion that no man committed suicide by placing the rifle in that awkward position and then (cocking) it four times more."

Despite the evidence presented by Jachimczyk, the grand jury agreed with McWilliams. It ruled that after considering all the known evidence, the jury considers it "inconclusive to substantiate a definite decision at this time, or to overrule any decision heretofore made." Later, it was disclosed that some jury members believed that Marshall had been murdered. Ralph McKinney blamed Pryse Metcalfe for this decision. "Pryse was as strong in the support of the suicide verdict as anyone I have ever seen in my life, and I think he used every influence he possibly could against the members of the grand jury to be sure it came out with a suicide verdict."

In 1964 the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations reported that it could find no link between Marshall's death and his efforts to bring to an end Billie Sol Estes' cotton allotment scheme. The following year Billie Sol Estes went to prison for fraud relating to the mostly nonexistent fertilizer tanks he had put up for collateral as part of the cotton allotment scam. He was released in 1971 but he was later sent back to prison for mail fraud and non-payment of income tax.

Clint Peoples retired from the Texas Rangers in 1974 but he continued to investigate the murder of Henry Marshall. In 1979 Peoples interviewed Billie Sol Estes in prison. Estes promised that "when he was released he would solve the puzzle of Henry Marshall's death".

Billie Sol Estes was released from prison in December, 1983. Three months later he appeared before the Robertson County grand jury. He confessed that Henry Marshall was murdered because it was feared he would "blow the whistle" on the cotton allotment scam. Billie Sol Estes claimed that Marshall was murdered on the orders of Lyndon B. Johnson, who was afraid that his own role in this scam would become public knowledge. According to Estes, Clifton C. Carter, Johnson's long-term aide, had ordered Marshall to approve 138 cotton allotment transfers.

Billie Sol Estes told the grand jury that he had a meeting with Johnson and Carter about Henry Marshall. Johnson suggested that Marshall be promoted out of Texas. Estes agreed and replied: "Let's transfer him, let's get him out of here. Get him a better job, make him an assistant secretary of agriculture." However, Marshall rejected the idea of being promoted in order to keep him quiet.

Estes, Johnson and Carter had another meeting on 17th January, 1961, to discuss what to do about Henry Marshall. Also at the meeting was Mac Wallace. After it was pointed out that Marshall had refused promotion to Washington, Johnson said: "It looks like we'll just have to get rid of him." Wallace, who Estes described as a hitman, was given the assignment.

Billie Sol Estes also told the grand jury that he met Clifton C. Carter and Mac Wallace at his home in Pecos after Marshall was killed. Wallace described how he waited for Marshall at his farm. He planned to kill him and make it appear as if Marshall committed suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning. However, Marshall fought back and he was forced to shoot him with his own rifle. He quoted Carter as saying that Wallace "sure did botch it up." Johnson was now forced to use his influence to get the authorities in Texas to cover-up the murder.

The grand jury rejected the testimony of Billie Sol Estes. Carter, Wallace and Johnson were all dead and could not confirm Billie Sol's testimony. However, the Grand Jury did change the verdict on the death of Henry Marshall from suicide to death by gunshot.

On 9th August, 1984, Estes' lawyer, Douglas Caddy, wrote to Stephen S. Trott at the U.S. Department of Justice. In the letter Caddy claimed that Estes, Lyndon B. Johnson, Mac Wallace and Clifton C. Carter had been involved in the murders of Henry Marshall, George Krutilek, Harold Orr, Ike Rogers, Coleman Wade, Josefa Johnson, John Kinser and John F. Kennedy. Caddy added: "Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders."

Four days later, the Texas Bureau of Vital Statistics ruled that there was now "clear and convincing" evidence to prove Henry Marshall was murdered and State District Judge Peter Lowry ordered that the death certificate should be changed to "homicide by gunshot wounds".

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

I am one of the least qualified to ever post a judgmental opinion regards almost every JFKA related subject take that has passed through this forum.

There are 100 to 200 other contributing members here (past and present) who are of the highest tier of research knowledge and credibility beyond anything I will ever come close to achieving.

With that ... I still feel compelled to express a gnawing and ever-growing personal frustration with what I see as a too commonly expressed falsehood ( purposeful or not ) regards the true level of corruption of LBJ.

And of what LBJ was truly capable of in exercising this corruption in protecting and promoting his personal, business and political agenda position of power, gain and influence and over-all presidential legacy.

I'm not talking so much whether he was personally involved in the JFKA versus some involvement in controlling the investigations and even having some pre-knowledge of it's happening.

I don't feel debate of that matter is totally invalid or unworthy.

What I DO feel is that with everything all of us all now know about LBJ's life and actions before and after the JFKA and with so much documentation and 1st hand witness testimony that clearly exposes the true full depth of his corruption, it is hard for me to read others downplaying of it and/or pretending it just wasn't that deep and bad.

If there is not enough "solid evidence" for these LBJ corruption down players to believe he was that tainted, it seems to me that there is "even less" solid evidence to promote the opposite.

We have solid research proof of the almost unfathomable level of corruption in Texas politics from the top down for decades going back into the 30's as well of such involving the powerfully rich oil kings in Texas.  At one time the wealthiest men on Earth.

Murchison, D.H. Byrd, Hunt?   The JBS, Minutemen and The Del Charro Motel set?

Corruption that was so entrenched and serious minded that we know that murders were ordered at times to protect it.  Isn't it time we grew up and accepted this truth, ominous as it was? And that LBJ was an active or at least protectively kept separated but fully aware part of it?

I know that many here disparage and dismiss Barr McClelland and his book "Blood, Money And Power" but for what reasons? His publicly stated charge that LBJ was involved in the JFKA?

Okay. That specific charge is too hard for them to swallow.

However, McClelland's book exposed much more about the real bastions of long-time corruption power, influence and control in Texas politics and specifically the real head of this Gorgon cabal, Ed Clark and his law firm which was the most powerful in Texas for decades.

Could any of you LBJ corruption down players also say Clark was above the darkest deeds of crime such as ordering or okaying murders in his time?

The more I read about LBJ...the more his corruption seems worse and deeper than what has ever been officially approved written.

I cringe when I read postings promoting LBJ as not really that corrupt.

I suppose until Robert Caro himself finally declares that he believed LBJ was capable of ordering murders...LBJ's defenders will never change their view of him as just not being that bad and as ruthlessly corrupt as he was. 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

Curious what other members here make of the following sardonically stated quote by President Richard Millhouse Nixon? 

"You know that Lyndon...he never likes to be number two."

Filters

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0:48

NOW PLAYING

 

 

NIXON jokes: LBJ never likes being "Number Two."

 

Interestingly, Nixon also said he wanted to be President, but he was not "willing to kill" to get there....

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

Richard M. Nixon tells Pat Buchanon that LBJ was "an animal."

3:25

NOW PLAYING

 

 

Nixon with no expletives deleted

 

 

 

Highlights of a 1982 CNN Crossfire interview with former President Richard Nixon, including uncensored comments during a ...

[Robert Morrow]

Joe Bauer, Lyndon Johnson was also described by Robert Kennedy as "an animal." Others have described him as "a monster." I prefer to classify Lyndon Johnson as a "malignantly narcissistic criminal psychopath and pathological deceiver."

Jackie Kennedy was not the only one in real time on Air Force One who immediately suspected LBJ in the JFK assassination.

Evelyn Lincoln, JFK’s personal secretary of 12 years, on 11-22-63 listed LYNDON JOHNSON as her top suspect in the JFK assassination – listed in real time on the Air Force One plane ride back from Dallas

 Web link:

http://www.justiceforkennedy.com/2010/12/evelyn-lincolns-list-of-suspects-in-jfk.html?zx=dbd7cd7034f71b5d  

Evelyn Lincoln’s top suspects in the JFK assassination were, in real time, as she wrote them on the back of an envelope on the plane ride from Dallas, mere hours after the JFK assassination. 

1) LYNDON JOHNSON

2) KKK

3) Dixiecrats

4) Jimmy Hoffa

5) Richard Nixon

6) Diem

7) Rightist

8] CIA in Cuban fiasco

9) Dictators

10) Communists

11) John Birch Society
 

James Fetzer published the letter by Evelyn Lincoln to "Richard" dated October 7, 1994,
in Assassination Science (1998), page 372. Letter is also printed in [Noel Twymann, Bloody Treason, p. 831] Preserving the punctuation, the spacing of lines (including hyphens and such), that letter reads as follows:

Evelyn Lincoln
4701 Willard Avenue
Chevy Chase, Maryland 20816
(301) 664-3670

October 7, 1994

Dear Richard,

It was a pleasure to receive your kind letter concerning your
desire to obtain my assessment of President Kennedy's administration
and assassination to pass along to your students.

I am sending along to you and article which was written by
Muriel Ressman for the "Lady's Circle" October 1964, and was recent-
ly reprinted in a current issue of that magazine, which will give you
an insight into my impression of the man.

As for the assassination is concerned, it is my belief that there
was a conspiracy because there were those that disliked him and felt
the only way to get rid of him was to assassinate him. These five con-
spirators, in my opinion, were Lyndon B. Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, the
Mafia, the CIA and the Cubans in Florida. The House Intelligence
Committee investigation, also, came to the conclusions that there was
a conspiracy.

My very best wishes to you and your students.

Sincerely,

s/

Evelyn Lincoln

NOTE: The first few words of the third paragraph, "As for the . . .",
indicates that she began to write, "As far as the . . .", but did not.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Robert Morrow
adding LBJ as a deceiver, fixing the #8

[Ron Bulman]

Fetzer?

[Joe Bauer]

6 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

Joe Bauer, Lyndon Johnson was also described by Robert Kennedy as "an animal." Others have described him as "a monster." I prefer to classify Lyndon Johnson as a "malignantly narcissistic criminal psychopath and pathological deceiver."

Jackie Kennedy was not the only one in real time on Air Force One who immediately suspected LBJ in the JFK assassination.

Evelyn Lincoln, JFK’s personal secretary of 12 years, on 11-22-63 listed LYNDON JOHNSON as her top suspect in the JFK assassination – listed in real time on the Air Force One plane ride back from Dallas

 Web link:

http://www.justiceforkennedy.com/2010/12/evelyn-lincolns-list-of-suspects-in-jfk.html?zx=dbd7cd7034f71b5d  

Evelyn Lincoln’s top suspects in the JFK assassination were, in real time, as she wrote them on the back of an envelope on the plane ride from Dallas, mere hours after the JFK assassination. 

1) LYNDON JOHNSON

2) KKK

3) Dixiecrats

4) Jimmy Hoffa

5) Richard Nixon

6) Diem

7) Rightist

8] CIA in Cuban fiasco

9) Dictators

10) Communists

11) John Birch Society
 

James Fetzer published the letter by Evelyn Lincoln to "Richard" dated October 7, 1994,
in Assassination Science (1998), page 372. Letter is also printed in [Noel Twymann, Bloody Treason, p. 831] Preserving the punctuation, the spacing of lines (including hyphens and such), that letter reads as follows:

Evelyn Lincoln
4701 Willard Avenue
Chevy Chase, Maryland 20816
(301) 664-3670

October 7, 1994

Dear Richard,

It was a pleasure to receive your kind letter concerning your
desire to obtain my assessment of President Kennedy's administration
and assassination to pass along to your students.

I am sending along to you and article which was written by
Muriel Ressman for the "Lady's Circle" October 1964, and was recent-
ly reprinted in a current issue of that magazine, which will give you
an insight into my impression of the man.

As for the assassination is concerned, it is my belief that there
was a conspiracy because there were those that disliked him and felt
the only way to get rid of him was to assassinate him. These five con-
spirators, in my opinion, were Lyndon B. Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, the
Mafia, the CIA and the Cubans in Florida. The House Intelligence
Committee investigation, also, came to the conclusions that there was
a conspiracy.

My very best wishes to you and your students.

Sincerely,

s/

Evelyn Lincoln

NOTE: The first few words of the third paragraph, "As for the . . .",
indicates that she began to write, "As far as the . . .", but did not.

Fetzer?

Okay.

But you can't dismiss Evelyn Lincoln so easily.

The woman was around JFK just feet away in his daily doings for years.

Imagine what she heard firsthand being in that incredibly unique close up position all that time?

I don't think she wrote a book. Yet, she should have.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Benjamin Cole]

Lots of reasons to suspect LBJ was morally capable of murder. 

But where is the evidence he was involved in the JFKA? 

Or Allen Dulles? 

https://nypost.com/2021/02/22/soviets-ordered-lee-harvey-oswald-to-kill-jfk-ex-cia-chief/

Former CIA Chief Woolsey said it was Russians and LHO. 

Marcello. Nazis, Israelis, French mercs. Hoffa. Cuban exiles. 

But the problem is....suspicions and evidence are not the same thing. 

Maybe the still-secret JFK Records have a few clues....

[Joe Bauer]

4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Lots of reasons to suspect LBJ was morally capable of murder. 

But where is the evidence he was involved in the JFKA? 

Ah, finally we have one highly active forum member's acceptance of LBJ being at least "capable of murder morally."

Would this include LBJ -if not ordering a murder himself - simply being aware of this kind of crime being planned and possibly giving just an okaying nod or not saying anything to stop it?

I'll repeat again, of course there is no evidence of LBJ being directly involved in the JFKA.

The highest power leaders don't allow themselves to be involved in any way when it comes to this kind of crime. They are a dozen rungs removed.

Same with Dulles.

Woolsey said it was the Russians?

You talk about evidence and the lack of it?

Is there anything close to credible evidence to support this Woolsey statement you attribute to him?

Your Woolsey quote suggest our government knew the Russians did JFK?

You really think we wouldn't have not done something hugely retaliatory to them in response to them taking out our sitting president, and so publicly and brutally? The ultimate act of war?

You have any guesses as to what we may have done in that regards? Outside of a military attack?

If we did something economically it would have damaged them to such degrees, the entire world would have seen and known about it.

There was no retaliatory action taken at all beyond our normal year in and year out covert intrigue battles.

If Castro did it or one of his hit teams and again, we knew this "for certain," we would have annihilated him.

So, regards evidence...the lack of it showing anyone outside of our own society doing JFK is even more negligible than the evidence we have that leans toward someone domestically doing it.

Did the Russians gain anything from JFK's removal? If so, please enlighten us as to what and how?

Same with Castro.

Johnson and the massive power groups behind him ( military, intelligence, Hoover, segregationists, right wing super wealth , pre-Castro Cuban expats and Castro hating American organized crime)  were way more anti-Russia and anti-Castro than JFK. 

And these same groups behind LBJ shared a deeply felt common bond...they were all "extremely" JFK hating. All of them. To the degree that whoever took out JFK did them a favor!

"The mood in the Murchison family household was extremely joyous. Like the champaign and caviar flowed...for a week."

"I was the only one who felt any grief for John Kennedy."

36 yearlong employed Virginia Murchison family seamstress and companion "May Newman" recounting the celebration of JFK's murder in that household during that time.

The men who had "so much to lose" if Kennedy stayed in power after November, 1964 were LBJ, Hoover and even Dulles.

And conversely these same three power players had "so much to gain" by JFK's and his brother RFK's instant removal before then.

JFK and RFK were their main threat enemies above and beyond anyone else.

And there is "a ton" of evidence that validates that specific threat loss and threat removal gain situation proposition.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Roger Odisio]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ah, finally we have one highly active forum member's acceptance of LBJ being at least "capable of murder morally."

Would this include LBJ -if not ordering a murder himself - simply being aware of this kind of crime being planned and possibly giving just an okaying nod or not saying anything to stop it?

I'll repeat again, of course there is no evidence of LBJ being directly involved in the JFKA.

The highest power leaders don't allow themselves to be involved in any way when it comes to this kind of crime. They are a dozen rungs removed.

Same with Dulles.

Woolsey said it was the Russians?

You talk about evidence and the lack of it?

Is there anything close to credible evidence to support this Woolsey statement you attribute to him?

Your Woolsey quote suggest our government knew the Russians did JFK?

You really think we wouldn't have not done something hugely retaliatory to them in response to them taking out our sitting president, and so publicly and brutally? The ultimate act of war?

You have any guesses as to what we may have done in that regards? Outside of a military attack?

If we did something economically it would have damaged them to such degrees, the entire world would have seen and known about it.

There was no retaliatory action taken at all beyond our normal year in and year out covert intrigue battles.

If Castro did it or one of his hit teams and again, we knew this "for certain," we would have annihilated him.

So, regards evidence...the lack of it showing anyone outside of our own society doing JFK is even more negligible than the evidence we have that leans toward someone domestically doing it.

Did the Russians gain anything from JFK's removal? If so, please enlighten us as to what and how?

Same with Castro.

Johnson and the massive power groups behind him ( military, intelligence, Hoover, segregationists, right wing super wealth , pre-Castro Cuban expats and Castro hating American organized crime)  were way more anti-Russia and anti-Castro than JFK. 

And these same groups behind LBJ shared a deeply felt common bond...they were all "extremely" JFK hating. All of them. To the degree that whoever took out JFK did them a favor!

"The mood in the Murchison family household was extremely joyous. Like the champaign and caviar flowed...for a week."

"I was the only one who felt any grief for John Kennedy."

36 yearlong employed Virginia Murchison family seamstress and companion "May Newman" recounting the celebration of JFK's murder in that household during that time.

The men who had "so much to lose" if Kennedy stayed in power after November, 1964 were LBJ, Hoover and even Dulles.

And conversely these same three power players had "so much to gain" by JFK's and his brother RFK's instant removal before then.

JFK and RFK were their main threat enemies above and beyond anyone else.

And there is "a ton" of evidence that validates that specific threat loss and threat removal gain situation proposition.

 

 

 

So far this thread has seen 3.1k views and had 118 comments. But there has been very little push back or even response to the points I have made.

 

Let me try to refocus the thread by summarizing what I'm saying,

 

The plotters would not only have devised plans to murder Kennedy--how, when, where, and by whom--but also have planned two other plot elements before attempting the murder:  1. how to get away with it: cover up their role  and blame someone else, and 2. how to achieve the policy changes that motivated the murder in the first place. All of these things were crucial; they had to have been in place before the murder. The plan for the murder and coverup had to have been of one piece.  The planners were not amateurs.

 

Often coup planners can choose the replacement for the victim.  Not in this case.  If Kennedy was killed Johnson would replace him.

 

The basic plan was to kill Oswald after the murder, before he could talk to a lawyer.  And to frame him.

 

The coverup and framing Oswald began immediately after the murder (an indication they were preplanned).

 

*Snatching the body from Dr. Earl Rose, who had jurisdiction over it and was prepared to do the autopsy, and flying it to DC where they could control the autopsy. This was a top priority.  Allowing Dr. Rose to do the autopsy would have almost certainly destroyed the killers' Oswald story.  The DC autopsy was designed not to reveal what happened but to conceal as much of it as they could.

 

We know Johnson ordered the body to be seized when he got back on the plane to fly to DC.  But he had a problem. His advisers thought he must get the hell out of Dallas and fly to DC as soon as possible for his own safety. When asked to return to DC with Johnson, Jackie Kennedy had made it plain she would not leave the body.  Johnson's order to take the body addressed that--Jackie would come to the plane with the body--as well as preventing the autopsy by Dr. Rose. 

 

But that would delay the flight.  How to justify the delay waiting for Jackie and the body, since they could easily have taken AF2 Johnson had abandoned when they were ready?

 

Johnson insisted he wanted to be sworn in by a judge before flying to DC and later tried to insist, falsely, that Bobby had suggested that when Johnson asked him for advice.  A judge had to be found to do it. 

 

Johnson probably knew, or if he didn't, someone on staff could have told him, he was already president the moment Kennedy was legally declared dead.  The swearing in ceremony was unnecessary, particularly under the circumstances; it normally was just window dressing for the public.  But  it served its purpose for Johnson. The body arrived to the plane before the judge and he had accomplished his first task in the coverup.

 

*The message to Air Force One to those staffers coming back from Dallas that said no matter what  you people think you saw [particularly you Kennedy people], we have officially solved the murder. It was done by a lone assassin. There has been a lot of discussion about convincing the public of the Oswald story, but the first task in the coverup was convincing those in Washington to go along.

 

*Asking Oswald for his alibi in their first interrogation so they could set out to destroy evidence of it (he had not yet been killed). The day of the murder they threatened Buell Frazier with the death penalty if he didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. They visited Lovelady that night to show him Altgens 6 because they were afraid Oswald might be the prominent figure on the steps, as he had claimed.  They started tailing Vickie Adams because her story of descending of the back steps threatened to negate the story they were preparing for Oswald.

 

Oswald was murdered about 46 hours after Kennedy. That opened up almost limitless possibilities to frame him. It also required an investigation to produce a explanation for the murder that could satisfy the public, since there would be no trial. That meant the Justice Dept, but Bobby was incapacitated and would soon be gone. 

 

Johnson took over and immediately that weekend stopped other inquiries by the Texas AG and Congress.  He would instead set up a commission of figureheads with only lawyers on staff, but no investigators, whose job it was to gather any information that could be used to frame Oswald, while  ignoring or distorting any thing else. And put Allen Dulles on it to ensure that it would not into delve into any role for the CIA and the war mongers, but instead reach the preplanned verdict.

 

Johnson was in full charge of the coverup.  Which, as I said, had been part of the plan.  

 

Time to make some logical connections, beyond assessing what Johnson did after the murder.--whether they indicated innocence or guilt. If the other plotters knew that Johnson  would have a crucial role to protect them, run the coverup, and be in a position to make some of the important policy changes they wanted, why wouldn't he have been part of the premurder planning? The fact that Johnson's subsequent actions do in fact indicate guilt, not innocence, adds substance to this question.

 

The other plotters knew Johnson.  They knew of his ambition to be president.  They probably knew, as he said later to McNamara, that he never agreed with Kennedy's plan to pull out of Vietnam but kept his mouth shut.  They also knew of Johnson's volatility, whether or not you believe Newman's claim that he was drunk most of the time.

 

There simply was too much at stake for them to leave Johnson's crucial role in the plan unverified by Johnson himself before they took the chance to murder Kennedy.

 

Of all of the people who wanted Kennedy dead, which meant Johnson would be president, Lyndon Johnson was at or near the top of the list of those who wanted it most and had the power/ability to make it happen. 

 

I haven't even mentioned what followed the JFKA:  a systematic destruction of much of the leadership of a left opposition to the war mongers who had seized power.  Johnson was in a position to try to stop any of that but did not.