Interesting note from LHO arrest.

[Cory Santos]

Does this confirm Craig’s story that Oswald was picked up?  It states they were looking for someone who picked him up “after the shooting”.   

 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/john-f-kennedy-assassination-teletype-112363-police-begin-to-question-lee-harvey-oswald-again/

Edited December 15, 2023 by Cory Santos

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Does this confirm Craig’s story that Oswald was picked up?  It states they were looking for someone who picked him up “after the shooting”.   

 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/john-f-kennedy-assassination-teletype-112363-police-begin-to-question-lee-harvey-oswald-again/

That's a UPI report from 11/23. 

I wouldn't say it confirms the Craig story, as there were earnest mistakes and a lot of hubbub in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA. 

The DPD was reported to be looking for someone who had given LHO a ride.

I would say the UPI report confirms that on 11/23 the DPD thought someone might have given LHO a ride after the JFKA. 

 

 

 

[Tony Krome]

3 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Does this confirm Craig’s story that Oswald was picked up?  It states they were looking for someone who picked him up “after the shooting”.  

That and Curry's hallway interview in the hallway. Roger Craig's message got through to Curry via Fritz.

Video starts at correct time;

 

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

That and Curry's hallway interview in the hallway. Roger Craig's message got through to Curry via Fritz.

Video starts at correct time;

 

Clearly the early unofficial story is thatLHO had help.   Yet, Westbrook knew he had tried the bus.   Perhaps the lookalike pick up did happen?   This is based on something.  They were not following up on nothing.   

Edited December 15, 2023 by Cory Santos

[Steve Thomas]

I like the shot at the FBI.

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

36 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Clearly the early unofficial story is thatLHO had help.   Yet, Westbrook knew he had tried the bus.   Perhaps the lookalike pick up did happen?   This is based on something.  They were not following up on nothing.   

Hi Cory,

I think you may be combining the "pickup outside the TSBD" and the Tippit murder by the way the statement is written.

"After the shooting" must refer to the JFK shooting and not Tippit.

FWIW, Oswald did not get on any bus.. the entire McWatters bus transfer baloney were more red herrings.
WESTBROOK was one of a handful of DPD co-conspirators - a very important one in fact - so be very wary of what he said and did that day.

The pistol and the wallets ran thru the office of the Chief of Personnel... with the result of 5 wallets becoming 1 with HIDELL ID

John and I have written extensively about WESTBROOK and CROY as they were key to the killing of Oswald as well.

[David Josephs]

@Cory Santos

https://harveyandlee.net/WandC/Westbrook_and_Croy.html

Again.. John and I diverge on some of his H&L stuff but not on the core understanding of the extensive record of a second man.

This article delves deep into the wallet and HIDELL ID issue.  

My caveat is that John makes certain assumptions about the involvement of LEE vs HARVEY with which I don't necessarily agree.
Doesn't change the substance related to the Wallet, Westbrook and Croy.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programs 

[Michael Kalin]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

FWIW, Oswald did not get on any bus.. the entire McWatters bus transfer baloney were more red herrings.

Red herrings notwithstanding, Oswald boarded the Marsalis bus driven by McWatters. See Armstrong's article at Harvey&Lee.

I disagree with the proposed plan that "[Oswald] would deboard the bus across the street from the GLOCO Station, be picked up by a Dallas Police officer (J. D. Tippit, who was in the GLOCO parking lot), and driven to the Texas Theater." My take is Oswald's primary destination was the library which is why he took the Marsalis bus. Tippit lay in wait at GLOCO to intercept it.

The alternate destination was the theater. Mentzel waited nearby at Luby's Cafeteria. Both got itchy and called their handlers almost simultaneously from locations one block apart. For unknown reasons Tippit's fate was sealed while Mentzel was dispatched to a car accident. Also unknown is why Oswald jumped the Marsalis bus and headed for the alternate destination. Perhaps the blond woman who boarded the bus simultaneously aroused his suspicion.

For identification purposes two potential destinations required the two torn bills that were found on Oswald.

The sheriff's massive deployment of manpower at the library is often overlooked, but this is a critical item. Among other things it explains why Hill eventually radioed in from the substation at 12th & Beckley.

There is also the otherwise inscrutable dispatch -- "Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 East Jefferson." [Kimbrough/Shearer 914] -- immediately following Bowley's call on Tippit's radio to DPD that gave the correct address. The library was the only building of significance close to 510 East Jefferson.

 

[Cory Santos]

I believe the evidence shows he did board and then get off the bus.   The pick up however tends to be for someone that looked like him.  That is the Craig sighting.  

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Michael Kalin said:

Red herrings notwithstanding, Oswald boarded the Marsalis bus driven by McWatters. See Armstrong's article at Harvey&Lee.

Simple question then...

We both know that Oswald wore a button down BRIARLOOM shirt to work, which AFTER THIS SUPPOSED BUS RIDE he changes into a different shirt.
This new shirt, let's call it the Arrest Shirt vs the Work Shirt, has torn elbows and 3 buttons missing from the scrap in the theater.

I find it very hard to fathom how Ms Bledsoe could describe a shirt that Oswald had yet to change into, nor had yet to have gotten in a fight where the buttons are torn off.

Mr. BALL - Now, what color shirt did he have on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He had a brown shirt.
Mr. BALL - And unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to the elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is.
Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off.
Mr. BALL - What did he have on underneath that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know.
Mr. BALL - Do you know the color of any undershirt he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

 

But that's not all.  While McWatters does claim in his testimony it was Oswald on the bus he is one of the only people to come back to the commission and "advised the President's Commission that he was mistaken, and that the young man who was the subject of his testimony is a "teen-ager" named MILTON JONES"

 John and I spent 2+ years going thru his sources and footnotes together.  His book, by his own admission, is a starting point from which to clarify and expand. A snapshot of his knowledge at the moment.  He and I now stay away from this subject as he simply refuses to accept CE2641 as contradictory evidence.

Oswald could not have BOTH gotten into a Rambler with a dark complected man driving AND walk down ELM away from the TSBD only to get on heading back, one, and two - the bus wasn't even the one he would take to go to his room on Beckley.

You wont find anyone on this forum who knows more about that book that I do, with all due respect to Jim Hargrove.

We can talk about the red herring bus transfer too if you'd like, its origin and provenance... but I'll leave that up to you.

When the community finally understands that MOST of the information provided about what occurred is double-speak spy-craft, it may be easier to move forward in conversation.

The bus transfer was the counter argument to CRAIG seeing the actual Oswald leave with the help of another... not allowed in this scenario.

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, Michael Kalin said:

Red herrings notwithstanding, Oswald boarded the Marsalis bus driven by McWatters. See Armstrong's article at Harvey&Lee.

I disagree with the proposed plan that "[Oswald] would deboard the bus across the street from the GLOCO Station, be picked up by a Dallas Police officer (J. D. Tippit, who was in the GLOCO parking lot), and driven to the Texas Theater." My take is Oswald's primary destination was the library which is why he took the Marsalis bus. Tippit lay in wait at GLOCO to intercept it.

The alternate destination was the theater. Mentzel waited nearby at Luby's Cafeteria. Both got itchy and called their handlers almost simultaneously from locations one block apart. For unknown reasons Tippit's fate was sealed while Mentzel was dispatched to a car accident. Also unknown is why Oswald jumped the Marsalis bus and headed for the alternate destination. Perhaps the blond woman who boarded the bus simultaneously aroused his suspicion.

For identification purposes two potential destinations required the two torn bills that were found on Oswald.

The sheriff's massive deployment of manpower at the library is often overlooked, but this is a critical item. Among other things it explains why Hill eventually radioed in from the substation at 12th & Beckley.

There is also the otherwise inscrutable dispatch -- "Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 East Jefferson." [Kimbrough/Shearer 914] -- immediately following Bowley's call on Tippit's radio to DPD that gave the correct address. The library was the only building of significance close to 510 East Jefferson.

 

 

"For identification purposes two potential destinations required the two torn bills that were found on Oswald."

 

There is no evidence that two torn bills were found on Oswald and it should not be stated as a fact.

 

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

Red herrings notwithstanding, Oswald boarded the Marsalis bus driven by McWatters. See Armstrong's article at Harvey&Lee.

I disagree with the proposed plan that "[Oswald] would deboard the bus across the street from the GLOCO Station, be picked up by a Dallas Police officer (J. D. Tippit, who was in the GLOCO parking lot), and driven to the Texas Theater." My take is Oswald's primary destination was the library which is why he took the Marsalis bus. Tippit lay in wait at GLOCO to intercept it.

The alternate destination was the theater. Mentzel waited nearby at Luby's Cafeteria. Both got itchy and called their handlers almost simultaneously from locations one block apart. For unknown reasons Tippit's fate was sealed while Mentzel was dispatched to a car accident. Also unknown is why Oswald jumped the Marsalis bus and headed for the alternate destination. Perhaps the blond woman who boarded the bus simultaneously aroused his suspicion.

For identification purposes two potential destinations required the two torn bills that were found on Oswald.

The sheriff's massive deployment of manpower at the library is often overlooked, but this is a critical item. Among other things it explains why Hill eventually radioed in from the substation at 12th & Beckley.

There is also the otherwise inscrutable dispatch -- "Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 East Jefferson." [Kimbrough/Shearer 914] -- immediately following Bowley's call on Tippit's radio to DPD that gave the correct address.

 

 

"The library was the only building of significance close to 510 East Jefferson."

 

Nonsense.

The Johnny Reynolds Motor Company had the address of 500 E. Jefferson.  This is the location from where L.J. Lewis called the police after hearing the shots and seeing a man with a gun running down Patton.  Lewis (having no idea where exactly the shooting occurred) probably gave that address to the police operator.

 

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

I believe the evidence shows he did board and then get off the bus.   

Mr. BALL - You were not under the impression then that night when you saw the lineup that the No. 2 man in the lineup was the man who got off the bus, to whom you had given a transfer? 
Mr. McWATTERS - That is what I say.

[Michael Kalin]

4 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Oswald could not have BOTH gotten into a Rambler with a dark complected man driving AND walk down ELM away from the TSBD only to get on heading back, one, and two - the bus wasn't even the one he would take to go to his room on Beckley.

Precisely the point. Oswald took McWatters' bus to get to the library not his room. He changed his plans on the fly which is why he got off the Marsalis bus.

Tippit's intercept was directed toward Marsalis. DPD's red herrings make no difference. They weren't good at this sort of thing probably because their superficial frame-ups seldom encountered a painstaking judicial examination.

You tell me if Armstrong adheres to the lengthy scenario he set forth in the article I linked. Specifically, does he believe Oswald boarded McWatters' bus?

[Tony Krome]

3 minutes ago, Michael Kalin said:

Oswald took McWatters' bus

McWatters does not identify Oswald as boarding his bus, nor as the only male who he issued a transfer to. What evidence are you basing your statement on?