Apronman - The Butcher of Elm Street

[Gerry Down]

Apronman can be seen in the background of the Zapruder film on the grass. According to a recent Rob Clark podcast, Apronman has been identified as a Dallas butcher off Main street. Does anyone know more about this identification?  And if this person has indeed been identified, do we have an eyewitness account from them? 

[Jamey Flanagan]

I'm very interested in the answer to your question myself! I'm sure he told his account of the assassination to friends and/or family sometime over the years.

[Steve Thomas]

19 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Apronman can be seen in the background of the Zapruder film on the grass. According to a recent Rob Clark podcast, Apronman has been identified as a Dallas butcher off Main street. Does anyone know more about this identification? 

 

Gerry,

I went through every male name I could find in the Mary Ferrell Dealey Plaza witness database, and I didn't find him.

https://www.maryferrell.org/DealeyPlazaWitnessDB.html

I skipped over names of people I recognized like Malcolm Summers and Officer Joe Smith, but perhaps I missed him.

Steve Thomas

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Gerry,

I went through every male name I could find in the Mary Ferrell Dealey Plaza witness database, and I didn't find him.

https://www.maryferrell.org/DealeyPlazaWitnessDB.html

I skipped over names of people I recognized like Malcolm Summers and Officer Joe Smith, but perhaps I missed him.

Steve Thomas

Thanks for that. I just checked Craig Ciccones witness map and he does not appear on that map either. 

[Denise Hazelwood]

19 hours ago,  Chris Bristow said: 

Ok. If you copy the following,   "JFK assassination two different Dealey plaza interviews with witness Linda Willis" 
and paste it into the Youtube search box, it should be the 1st video that comes. It is 29:24 min long with the Willis 5 comment at 25:30.

In this video, after identifying Willis 5 as the one where "trains" were edited out, Linda Willis identifies "Apron Man" as "somebody who worked in a shoe shop." So, not a "butcher" but a "shoe repairman"

Edited just now by Denise Hazelwood 
add info relevant to a different thread

[Denise Hazelwood]

Pat Speer identifies this man as "Hank Farmer" per https://www.patspeer.com/chapter-7b-more-pieces-in-the-plaza

Note what Speer says about Farmer:

Hank Farmer is a rarely-discussed witness who is presumed to have stood in the plaza on the south side of Elm. (11-22-63 FBI memo from Joe Pearce to Dallas Special Agent-in-Charge J. Gordon Shanklin. This memo was never forwarded to FBI headquarters, but was discovered by researcher Harold Weisberg in the Dallas FBI office's files, which he'd gained access to as a result of a FOIA lawsuit.) "Today at 5:36 PM, HANK Farmer, 2862 Toronto, telephone Melrose 7-1637, Dallas, Texas; telephonically contacted the Dallas FBI Office, and advised he was standing on the southeast corner of Elm and Houston Streets at the time when President KENNEDY was shot. He stated he saw KENNEDY hit by the bullet and felt that bullet entered KENNEDY's face. He stated he then saw Governor CONNALLY shot and this shot entered CONNALLY's back. FARMER stated therefore, it is his opinion that the two shots were fired by two individuals from opposite directions. FARMER stated he wishes to speak to an agent with this Bureau and states he will not talk to the Dallas PD." (A handwritten note at the bottom of this memo says "This man interviewed at Dal PD 11/22/63 by buagent and PD detective." This note is signed "C. Brown". Intriguingly, no record of such an interview exists in the FBI or DPD files.) (12-14-63 FBI report on a 12-12 interview, CD205 p.34) "Mr. Hank Farmer...advised he is a service station attendant at the Brock Station...on November 22, 1963, at approximately 12:15 P.M., he arrived at the Dallas County Courthouse to pay taxes. He was unaware that there was to be a presidential motorcade passing by. He waited in the park at the corner of Houston and Elm Streets and watched the motorcade come west off Main Street on to Houston Street and then west on Elm. He stated he saw President Kennedy appear to fall over in the car and then he saw Governor Connally also appear to fall over. He did not hear any shots fired and did not know what happened. There was confusion with many people running in all directions, and then the President's car drove off at a high rate of speed. Farmer stated that he did not know what happened but thought that both men had been shot; however, he did not hear any shots."

So this man Farmer saw Kennedy "shot in the face" (Denise: forehead) and then saw Connally hit in the back. He says nothing about the 3rd shot to hit limo occupants (Denise: the AR-15 shot).

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

 

19 hours ago,  Chris Bristow said: 

Ok. If you copy the following,   "JFK assassination two different Dealey plaza interviews with witness Linda Willis" 
and paste it into the Youtube search box, it should be the 1st video that comes. It is 29:24 min long with the Willis 5 comment at 25:30.

In this video, after identifying Willis 5 as the one where "trains" were edited out, Linda Willis identifies "Apron Man" as "somebody who worked in a shoe shop." So, not a "butcher" but a "shoe repairman"

Edited just now by Denise Hazelwood 
add info relevant to a different thread

Thanks for that. I guess shoe repair men wore aprons back then? To protect themselves while cutting shoe leather?

Though I wonder if Willis actually knew this man or surmised in her own mind that this man must be a shoe repair man due to seeing his apron.

[Nick Bartetzko]

After all these year,  finally learned the identity of this witness. Thanks to all for posting 

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

Pat Speer identifies this man as "Hank Farmer" per https://www.patspeer.com/chapter-7b-more-pieces-in-the-plaza

Note what Speer says about Farmer:

Hank Farmer is a rarely-discussed witness who is presumed to have stood in the plaza on the south side of Elm. (11-22-63 FBI memo from Joe Pearce to Dallas Special Agent-in-Charge J. Gordon Shanklin. This memo was never forwarded to FBI headquarters, but was discovered by researcher Harold Weisberg in the Dallas FBI office's files, which he'd gained access to as a result of a FOIA lawsuit.) "Today at 5:36 PM, HANK Farmer, 2862 Toronto, telephone Melrose 7-1637, Dallas, Texas; telephonically contacted the Dallas FBI Office, and advised he was standing on the southeast corner of Elm and Houston Streets at the time when President KENNEDY was shot. He stated he saw KENNEDY hit by the bullet and felt that bullet entered KENNEDY's face. He stated he then saw Governor CONNALLY shot and this shot entered CONNALLY's back. FARMER stated therefore, it is his opinion that the two shots were fired by two individuals from opposite directions. FARMER stated he wishes to speak to an agent with this Bureau and states he will not talk to the Dallas PD." (A handwritten note at the bottom of this memo says "This man interviewed at Dal PD 11/22/63 by buagent and PD detective." This note is signed "C. Brown". Intriguingly, no record of such an interview exists in the FBI or DPD files.) (12-14-63 FBI report on a 12-12 interview, CD205 p.34) "Mr. Hank Farmer...advised he is a service station attendant at the Brock Station...on November 22, 1963, at approximately 12:15 P.M., he arrived at the Dallas County Courthouse to pay taxes. He was unaware that there was to be a presidential motorcade passing by. He waited in the park at the corner of Houston and Elm Streets and watched the motorcade come west off Main Street on to Houston Street and then west on Elm. He stated he saw President Kennedy appear to fall over in the car and then he saw Governor Connally also appear to fall over. He did not hear any shots fired and did not know what happened. There was confusion with many people running in all directions, and then the President's car drove off at a high rate of speed. Farmer stated that he did not know what happened but thought that both men had been shot; however, he did not hear any shots."

So this man Farmer saw Kennedy "shot in the face" (Denise: forehead) and then saw Connally hit in the back. He says nothing about the 3rd shot to hit limo occupants (Denise: the AR-15 shot).

I've never read of Hank before.  That doesn't mean much, a lot we've all never seen, buried.  Interesting.  Thanks to Pat and you for a legitimate point of interest given the FBI documentation.

[Micah Mileto]

Not AJ?

[Denise Hazelwood]

Well, I don't know exactly what the "Railroad Detective" (name?) or DCM were doing, but I don't think they had anything to do with the assassination. If "Railroad Detective" were actually holding a rifle, I think Holland would have seen him shooting, and Haygood would have been more suspicious. 

But A.J. Millican's accounting of the shots is very interesting. I give him 3 shots from the TSBD, the "two" from the "arcade" are probably the SS warning shot and the AR-15 shot from the road. Most interesting are the "three" that sounded "farther back." I've got one in the acoustic evidence that was rejected because it didn't fit the echo pattern of a TSBD or GK shot, which I take to be SS or DPD chasing after the wrong guy. Two more shots after the "bike with the mic" (Jackson) left to go to Parkland? As for Millican's man on the south side of Elm Street who was "hit in the foot, or the ankle" I suspect that was a misconception regarding Malcolm Summers (the "falling man" in the Z-film) rather than someone who was actually shot. However, Dan Rather did report on the same day that "others were injured during the shooting and were brought in (to Parkland Hospital) much later." Who those "others" might have been, I have no idea. But I bet one of them was the Black man in "light green pants and a beige shirt" (Landis' description) who was standing on the steps and took off running up the steps during the shooting. I think he was shot by overzealous DPD or SS, thus explaining the "pool of blood" at the top of the stairs.