Robert Morrow Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) Did Lyndon Johnson, Dwight Eisenhower or Richard Nixon ever say something like this? Or for that matter Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, George Herbert Walker Bush, Barack Obama or (laughably) Donald Trump? John Kennedy: "War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK in a pre-1960, most likely pre-1950, undated letter to a friend. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy#:~:text=awaits%20his%20execution.-,Pre%2D1960,that%20the%20warrior%20does%20today.&text=Where%20in%20the%20hell%20have,for%20a%20whole%20week%20now.%22 Undated Letter to a Navy friend; also mentioned by William Safire in his "On Language" article "Warrior" in the New York Times rubric Magazines (26 August 2007); also in A Thousand Days : John F. Kennedy in the White House (1965), by Arthur Schlesinger, p. 88 Edited February 24 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 Man, that is a good one Robert. You one upped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Man, that is a good one Robert. You one upped me. If anyone wants the PDF file of JFK's letter to his friend "Jim" where that quote comes from, you may email me at Morrow321@aol.com. The JFK Library responded to me by saying: QUOTE I consulted with a colleague who works with textual materials and she provided me with this information about the quote: The "conscientious objector" quote comes from what appears to be a draft of a letter in one of JFK's "early notebooks," found in Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis's Personal Papers (JBKOPP-064-007). UNQUOTE and also: QUOTE The letter has four pages and the exact quote appears on page 3. UNQUOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Kinaski Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) According to Pierre Salinger in an interview he (Salinger)gave to the german television Kennedy said to him (Salinger) four days before his assassination: "I will enter peace talks with the north (of Vietnam), and make clear that there will be no war" KK Edited February 24 by Karl Kinaski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Griffith Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said: According to Pierre Salinger in an interview he (Salinger)gave to the german television Kennedy said to him (Salinger) two days before his assassination: "I will enter peace talks with the north (of Vietnam), and make clear that there will be no war" KK JFK supposedly said this to Salinger two days before the assassination, huh? Well, that's mighty curious. Salinger said nothing about this alleged statement in his 1966 memoir With Kennedy. He devoted several pages to describing his last encounters with JFK before JFK left for Texas, but he said nothing about Kennedy making any such statement. Not one word. Not even about Vietnam in general. Nothing. Why didn't Bobby Kennedy ever claim that JFK had said anything like this to him? Huh? When Bobby was asked specifically about this issue in his April 1964 oral interview, he flatly rejected the idea that JFK was going to withdraw from Vietnam or settle for anything other than victory. JFK never said anything about withdrawal without victory to William Bundy, either, nor to Dean Rusk, nor to McGeorge Bundy. Not one shred of evidence for such an intention is found on the JFK White House tapes. Not one syllable. This is not to mention the fact that every single firsthand statement from JFK himself flatly contradicts the Stone-Prouty-Newman myth. But you guys just don't care. You brush aside all this and much more evidence and instead rely on hearsay statements made years after the fact and on McNamara's fraudulent "secret debrief" (which he inexplicably failed to mention in his memoir or in any recorded White House discussion before or after JFK's death). And, just to be clear, we're talking about the same Pierre Salinger who claimed in 1996 that an intelligence agent had sent him a document that proved that TWA Flight 800 was shot down by friendly fire. The document was a hoax that had been circulating on the Internet for weeks and had been emailed to him by a former airline pilot. This sad episode spawned the term "Pierre Salinger syndrome" to describe people who believe that everything on the Internet is reliable. In 2000, Salinger further embarrassed himself by claiming that the two Libyans on trial for the bombing of Pan Am 103 were innocent and that he knew who the real bombers were. Incredible. The two men were tried because Qaddafi had handed them over, and they were found guilty at their trial in the Netherlands. Edited February 23 by Michael Griffith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Kinaski Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) @Michael Griffith Well ... Kennedy said that to Salinger four days before he was killed ... I can provide a picture of the book which contains that quote and a picture of the site where this quote appears ... if you want ... Edited February 24 by Karl Kinaski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said: @Michael Griffith Well ... Kennedy said that to Salinger two days before he was killed ... I can provide a picture of the book which contains that quote and a picture of the site where this quote appears ... if you want ... Please do provide this. Book, author, page. Thank you. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 14 hours ago, Michael Griffith said: When Bobby was asked specifically about this issue in his April 1964 oral interview, he flatly rejected the idea that JFK was going to withdraw from Vietnam or settle for anything other than victory. Anybody have an answer for this? Is what Michael claims here a fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Kinaski Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) First: I made an error regarding the day Kennedy said this Salinger: Their last talk was 7h30 pm on 19. November 1963, therefore it was four days before the assassination ... sry about that. The book (Language is German)is called APOKALYPSE VIETNAM, was published by in 2000 by Rowohlt Taschenbuch( paperback) Verlag. (GmbH Reinbeck bei Hamburg). Printed in Germany ISBN 3 499 61 67 8 It contains a timeline of the Vietnam war and a lot of interviews of the participants of both sides: Vo Nguyen Giap, Ngu Dinh Phuong, Thich Tam Duyen, Roger Hilsman, Helie de Saint Marc, Walt Whitman Rostow, Alexander Haig, Barry Zorthinan and Pierre Salinger to name just a few. The Salinger quote appears on page 95. In German it reads: (So everybody is free to translate it back as he think it is appropriate.) Quote, Pierre Salinger page 95 Quote "Im November 1963 schickte mich Kennedy nach Tokio, um dort seinen in sechs Wochen vorgesehenen Besuch vorzubereiten. Er gab mir die Worte mit auf den Weg. "Ich werde in einen Dialog mit den Nordvietnam eintreten und klarmachen, dass es keinen Krieg geben wird." Am 22. November startete meine Maschine( from Honolulu) -- drei Stunden später erhielt ich die Nachricht, dass Kennedy ermordet worden war. " The crux of the matter is: All those interviews were conducted by the german television station "mdr." The tape with the Salinger quote must exist in their archives. Here is the book. Edited February 25 by Karl Kinaski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 15 hours ago, Michael Griffith said: JFK never said anything about withdrawal without victory to William Bundy, either, nor to Dean Rusk, nor to McGeorge Bundy. You are merely assuming that to be the case. Even if any of them said that, they may not be telling the truth. 15 hours ago, Michael Griffith said: Not one shred of evidence for such an intention is found on the JFK White House tapes. Not one syllable. It was a new policy, shorty after which Kennedy was killed. 15 hours ago, Michael Griffith said: This is not to mention the fact that every single firsthand statement from JFK himself flatly contradicts the Stone-Prouty-Newman myth. If what Kennedy said after signing NSAM 263 contradicted it, he clearly did so for political reasons. 15 hours ago, Michael Griffith said: But you guys just don't care. You brush aside all this and much more evidence ... And you brush aside the most important evidence of all, NSAM 263, which clearly states that Kennedy's policy was to get American troops/advisors out of Vietnam. Target date of 1965. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said: Quote, Pierre Salinger page 95 Quote "Im November 1963 schickte mich Kennedy nach Tokio, um dort seinen in sechs Wochen vorgesehenen Besuch vorzubereiten. Er gab mir die Worte mit auf den Weg. "Ich werde in einen Dialog mit den Nordvietnam eintreten und klarmachen, dass es keinen Krieg geben wird." Am 22. November startete meine Maschine( from Honolulu) -- drei Stunden später erhielt ich die Nachricht, dass Kennedy ermordet worden war. " English translation via Google Translate: In November 1963, Kennedy sent me [Pierre Salinger] to Tokyo to prepare for his planned visit in six weeks. He gave me the words: "I will enter into a dialogue with the North Vietnamese and make it clear that there will be no war." On November 22nd my plane took off (from Honolulu) -- three hours later I received the news that Kennedy had been assassinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Kinaski Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 @Sandy Larsen Yes. I would translate it in the same way ... this book was related to a TV series about Vietnam back then ... I do not know if Salinger said this words on camera and if this part of his interview was used in the TV series. I am sure, his words were taped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) Michael Griffith: so what Robert Kennedy said in his spring, 1964 oral history about JFK and Vietnam? That is merely one data point. Much more powerful evidence says JFK was very unlikely to put a million combat troops into Vietnam. McGeorge Bundy did not think he would have. McGeorge Bundy, National Security Advisor for both JFK and LBJ, believed that if Kennedy had remained president, the Vietnam War as we know it would never have happened QUOTE In a discussion with another colleague, James Blight of Brown University, “Mac said there were no missed opportunities,” Blight noted. “None, except the ‘opportunity’ that was irretrievably lost when Kennedy was felled and replaced by Johnson. He said he believes both sides of the argument: had Kennedy lived, there would have been no Vietnam War as we know it; and with Johnson in the White House, it was (in combination with Hanoi’s intransigence) destined to unfold like the tragedy it became.” … Bundy argued that the no-combat-troop policy imposed by Kennedy was of fundamental significance for America’s history in Vietnam. “If Lyndon Johnson had not reversed that decision,” Bundy wrote, “the Vietnam War as America came to know could not have happened.” UNQUOTE [Gordon M. Goldstein, Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam, p. 231-232] Pierre Salinger in 1971 on JFK’s Vietnam policy [“Salinger Expresses Suspicion,” NYT, June 16, 1971] Salinger Expresses Suspicion - The New York Times (nytimes.com) PARIS, June 15—Pierre Salinger, the former press secretary. to President Kennedy, expressed his suspicion tonight that the Nixon Administration was responsible for the leak of a secret study on the Vietnam war to The New York Times. In an interview on the private radio station, Radio Luxembourg, Mr. Salinger said: “The publication of these documents can only help Nixon. I would not be surprised if someone in the Nixon] Administration gave a helping hand.” Mr. Salinger defended the Vietnam policy of President Kennedy, who, he said, wanted “to give aid to the South Vietnamese but did not want the United States to become the principal fighting force in a. war which ought to be won by the South Vietnamese themselves.” He admitted that under President Kennedy the number of Americans in Vietnam rose from 800 to 16,000 but added that “this is far from Mr. Johnson's policy who committed 500,000 men.” Edited February 24 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) On 2/23/2024 at 6:16 AM, Michael Griffith said: Why didn't Bobby Kennedy ever claim that JFK had said anything like this to him? Huh? When Bobby was asked specifically about this issue in his April 1964 oral interview, he flatly rejected the idea that JFK was going to withdraw from Vietnam or settle for anything other than victory. Deleted Edited February 25 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now