Jack Ruby, Foreknowledge?

[Pete Mellor]

15 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did the Jack Ruby signed Carousel Club business card shown to Chris by his grandaddy have the message you cite anywhere on the card? "Everyone's going to know who Jack Ruby is soon." ?

I don't feel Jack Ruby would ever write something like that down on any card or document ever.

Joe, "Everyone's going to know who Jack Ruby is soon", is what he said to the bell-boy as he signed the back of the card.

[Douglas Caddy]

Lee D. Shepherd wrote on Facebook today:

its called moral ambiguity:

“The Free Cuba Committee” was headed by ex-Cuban president, Dr. Carlos Prio Socarras and Eladio Del Valle. Prio’s 1948 regime was so corrupt that not even the Syndicate could function. He was involved in the 1961 failed invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs and also linked in testimony with CIA contract officer Frank Fiorini [aka Frank Sturgis] and long time gambling buddy, Jack Ruby. Prio was first introduced to JFK by Sturgis. A CIA memo confirms “Luis Somoza” was also involved with the unscrupulous former president of Cuba who was linked to Tony Varona. Prio had mentored and initiated Varona into the criminal underworld of Santo Trafficante. Varona's handler was CIA officer Emilio A. Rodriguez under the guidance of Antonio Sforza at JMWAVE. Prio had originally given enormous amounts of cash to Castro in hopes he could be controlled. One CIA report labels “Prio, an inveterate intriguer [who] has often demonstrated a complete lack of scruples in his actions.” The account says that in Cuba “during his administration, official corruption and gangsterism are known to have flourished, and he, like many of his colleagues, is reported to have profited considerably at public expense.” In 1977 the 73-year-old exile leader shot himself with a black, .38-caliber snub-nose revolver and left no suicide note.

 

 

 

All reactions:

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[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Lee D. Shepherd wrote on Facebook today:

its called moral ambiguity:

“The Free Cuba Committee” was headed by ex-Cuban president, Dr. Carlos Prio Socarras and Eladio Del Valle. Prio’s 1948 regime was so corrupt that not even the Syndicate could function. He was involved in the 1961 failed invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs and also linked in testimony with CIA contract officer Frank Fiorini [aka Frank Sturgis] and long time gambling buddy, Jack Ruby. Prio was first introduced to JFK by Sturgis. A CIA memo confirms “Luis Somoza” was also involved with the unscrupulous former president of Cuba who was linked to Tony Varona. Prio had mentored and initiated Varona into the criminal underworld of Santo Trafficante. Varona's handler was CIA officer Emilio A. Rodriguez under the guidance of Antonio Sforza at JMWAVE. Prio had originally given enormous amounts of cash to Castro in hopes he could be controlled. One CIA report labels “Prio, an inveterate intriguer [who] has often demonstrated a complete lack of scruples in his actions.” The account says that in Cuba “during his administration, official corruption and gangsterism are known to have flourished, and he, like many of his colleagues, is reported to have profited considerably at public expense.” In 1977 the 73-year-old exile leader shot himself with a black, .38-caliber snub-nose revolver and left no suicide note.

Fascinating and hugely important historical info DC.

No wonder Castro was able to gain control. Cuba was ripe for a revolution.

For decades before 1960 Cuba was one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. Corrupt politicians and organized crime and multi-national corporation ownership all ripping off everything they could out of that country...at the expense of the lowest income citizenry, the huge majority of their population. 

Same old 3rd world nation stripping of wealth and resources by a relatively small group of obsessed profiteer's story. The vast majority of average American citizens never saw any gain at all in that game. Just a small group of super wealthy.

 

[Ron Bulman]

I thought Ruby had foreknowledge based primarily on his "let's go watch the fireworks" statement.  All this supports my thoughts.  The you will know me statement to the upper level officers the day before and the bell hop make me wonder how much he knew.  He may have been more involved than I previously believed.  Did he know prior to the assassination he was supposed to kill Oswald afterwards?  If Tippit didn't?  Was he at the Texas Theater?

[Joe Bauer]

Bump.

 

[Pete Mellor]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I thought Ruby had foreknowledge based primarily on his "let's go watch the fireworks" statement.  All this supports my thoughts.  The you will know me statement to the upper level officers the day before and the bell hop make me wonder how much he knew.  He may have been more involved than I previously believed.  Did he know prior to the assassination he was supposed to kill Oswald afterwards?  If Tippit didn't?  Was he at the Texas Theater?

Ron, I'm certainly in the 'he was involved camp'.  As for your three question marked sentences, I have no answers.

Ruby's upsurge in his telephone records and his meetings with known 'mafia' which began in May '63 through to November tell there own story.  Links to Frank Carracci, Nofio Pecora, Harold Tannenbaum, Louis McWillie, Irwin Weiner, Barney Baker, Dusty Miller, Alex Gruber and Paul R. Jones.  On the 20th Nov., Ruby attended a party at Frank Tortoriello's Tanglewood Apartment in Dallas. On the 21st Ruby is at the Cabana Hotel where Eugene Brading and Morgan Brown are checked into Suite 301.

On the morning of the 22nd we have the sighting by Julia Ann Mercer, who thought the driver in the pickup truck was Ruby.  Garrison also wondered if the man with the gun case could have been Larry Crafard.  Garrison also suspected Crafard of being the Tippit killer, as the man who fled the scene wore a light coloured windbreaker like the one Crafard wears in an FBI photo. (Picture in Groden's 'The Search for LHO'.)  There are many Ruby sightings in the Plaza, not just Mercer.  Jean Hill, Vicky Adams, Avery Davis, Mrs Louis Valez + two co-workers linked Ruby there after the shots. 

The Ruby denial of his presence at Parkland is also suspicious, clearly seen by Kantor, Tice and Roy Stamps.

I sit on the fence as to whether Ruby knew prior to the assassination that he was to kill Oswald, but his stalking began that evening and his Wade correction on the 'Fair Play for Cuba'  is another giveaway of his prior knowledge.  Did Ruby know Oswald prior to the 22nd?  Bev Oliver, Carroll Jarnagin, Madeleine Brown, Bill DeMar, Wally Weston, Paul Buccilli, Ester Ann Mash, Little Lynn, Jada, Shari Angel , Bill Willis, William Chesher, Carl Maynard, Jack Sparkman, Rose Cheramie and Rev. Clyde Johnson are in a long list of those who stated Ruby and Oswald were linked.  

Edited February 25 by Pete Mellor

[Joe Bauer]

It's easy to be lulled into the Ruby as simple small time "tacky strip joint owner who did nothing more nefarious than beat the holy crap out of unruly Carousel Club customers and cursing cat fight with his stripper girls over pay" camp of thought.

It's true Jack Ruby "was" intelligent enough to start up and run such an enterprise ( although it was always running in the red ) and along with his sister Eva had done so with other Dallas area clubs for several years going back into the early 50's. 

It does take some initiative and responsible business acumen to do that for years.

Ruby paid his bills, paid his rent, paid his many employees including his band, took care of advertising including newspaper ads, pictures and billboards, found, protected and paid his girls, promoted his club with almost manic business card passing, kept a consistent compliance relationship with the cops and Vice squad.

His business was lurid naked women displaying and cheap booze pushing but he did it with what he perceived as class and well enough to at least keep in business for many years.

He and his brothers also dabbled in other side business ventures throughout their lives like the twist board and whacky plaques, etc. There was a streak of enterprising drive in their DNA.

Ruby also kept himself physically fit. Didn't smoke or drink. Maintained a consistent bond with his religious faith. Very lovingly cared for his dog Sheba.

Seth Kantor's well researched book "Who Was Jack Ruby" however proved there was much more to Jack Ruby than all of the above and that anyone had ever found and reported before, especially our major news organizations.

No one of responsible truth digging responsibility ever gave this super important subject the research it deserved, except Seth Kantor. The Warren Commission didn't want to know more about Jack Ruby than what the FBI was willing to provide to them. 

Imagine if Kantor's "Who Was Jack Ruby" research findings had been open testimony presented to them in their investigation? 

Imagine also if Kantor had not done his research work and written and published his seminal tome on the "real" Jack Ruby?

To this day no one would know what Kantor discovered and revealed about Jack Ruby - the real truth.

And the following Warren Commission summation report finding is one of the most integrity invalidating of all:

They chose to believe the testimony of highly mentally unstable Jack Ruby over a highly respected and achieving journalist Seth Kantor, who told them under oath that Jack Ruby had engaged him in conversation while they were both present at Parkland hospital during the time JFK was there. 

The Warren Commission actually stated that Seth Kantor was simply too over-excited to think straight and remember coherently his meet up with Jack Ruby at Parkland that epically historic afternoon! That false finding alone just chills you.

Jack Ruby was into so much more than putting strippers on stage, getting into cat fights with them, beating the tar out of drunk, loud and stage runway ankle grabbing customers and bringing in deli sandwiches to the Dallas PD late at night from time to time.

The real Jack Ruby is there for all to see through Seth Kantor's book..."Who Was Jack Ruby."

Edited February 25 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

14 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Ron, I'm certainly in the 'he was involved camp'.  As for your three question marked sentences, I have no answers.

Ruby's upsurge in his telephone records and his meetings with known 'mafia' which began in May '63 through to November tell there own story.  Links to Frank Carracci, Nofio Pecora, Harold Tannenbaum, Louis McWillie, Irwin Weiner, Barney Baker, Dusty Miller, Alex Gruber and Paul R. Jones.  On the 20th Nov., Ruby attended a party at Frank Tortoriello's Tanglewood Apartment in Dallas. On the 21st Ruby is at the Cabana Hotel where Eugene Brading and Morgan Brown are checked into Suite 301.

On the morning of the 22nd we have the sighting by Julia Ann Mercer, who thought the driver in the pickup truck was Ruby.  Garrison also wondered if the man with the gun case could have been Larry Crafard.  Garrison also suspected Crafard of being the Tippit killer, as the man who fled the scene wore a light coloured windbreaker like the one Crafard wears in an FBI photo. (Picture in Groden's 'The Search for LHO'.)  There are many Ruby sightings in the Plaza, not just Mercer.  Jean Hill, Vicky Adams, Avery Davis, Mrs Louis Valez + two co-workers linked Ruby there after the shots. 

The Ruby denial of his presence at Parkland is also suspicious, clearly seen by Kantor, Tice and Roy Stamps.

I sit on the fence as to whether Ruby knew prior to the assassination that he was to kill Oswald, but his stalking began that evening and his Wade correction on the 'Fair Play for Cuba'  is another giveaway of his prior knowledge.  Did Ruby know Oswald prior to the 22nd?  Bev Oliver, Carroll Jarnagin, Madeleine Brown, Bill DeMar, Wally Weston, Paul Buccilli, Ester Ann Mash, Little Lynn, Jada, Shari Angel , Bill Willis, William Chesher, Carl Maynard, Jack Sparkman, Rose Cheramie and Rev. Clyde Johnson are in a long list of those who stated Ruby and Oswald were linked.  

This is a great post Pete.  The lists of names associated with Ruby's phone bills, sightings in Dealy Plaza, at Parkland and those who said he knew Oswald is stunning.  I know a lot of the names but need to dig some for several I don't remember/have never seen.  Taken together, overall it seems overwhelming he knew something was going to happen.  

E.G.  I have The Ruby Cover-Up by Kantor, known of his encounter at Parkland for about 35 years.  I'd read somewhere along the line elsewhere of another person seeing him there, a nurse?  Did not know of two other sightings.  Obviously ignored by the Warren Omission.  Was Tice a nurse, who was Roy Stamps?

[Greg Doudna]

18 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

The Ruby denial of his presence at Parkland is also suspicious, clearly seen by Kantor, Tice and Roy Stamps.

I sit on the fence as to whether Ruby knew prior to the assassination that he was to kill Oswald, but his stalking began that evening …

He may have been at Parkland expecting arrival of an ambulance with a shot Oswald, to verify or assist Oswald in being dead after that arrival. It didn’t happen, so Ruby left. Ruby employee (paid in cash) Craford’s intent to kill Oswald in the Texas Theatre may have been a Plan B which also did not happen (due to the police arrival). But persistence paid off and after a couple more tries Ruby succeeded Sunday morning. 

[Pete Mellor]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

This is a great post Pete.  The lists of names associated with Ruby's phone bills, sightings in Dealy Plaza, at Parkland and those who said he knew Oswald is stunning.  I know a lot of the names but need to dig some for several I don't remember/have never seen.  Taken together, overall it seems overwhelming he knew something was going to happen.  

E.G.  I have The Ruby Cover-Up by Kantor, known of his encounter at Parkland for about 35 years.  I'd read somewhere along the line elsewhere of another person seeing him there, a nurse?  Did not know of two other sightings.  Obviously ignored by the Warren Omission.  Was Tice a nurse, who was Roy Stamps?

There's more!  Carracci & Pecora were associates of Marcello in NOLA. On October 10th Ruby took flight 985 on American Airlines to NOLA, he was seen meeting with Carracci. Weiner was linked to Trafficante & Hoffa. Baker was a bagman for Hoffa & Gruber was one of Hoffa's 'key officials'.  Miller was head of the Southern Conference of Teamsters.  On the 21st., Ruby visited Lawrence Meyers at the Cabana Hotel.  Meyers was with Jean West aka Jean Aase who lived in a Chicago apartment that David Ferrie telephoned on 24th September.  Dallas cabdriver Raymond Cummings informed Garrison that he had driven Ferrie and Oswald to the Carousel in early '63.  Around 8pm on November 23rd., David Ferrie arrived in Galveston, just before the arrival in that town of Ruby's friend Breck Wall, and just before Ruby made a phone call to Galveston.

As for Mrs. Louis Valez, she and two co-workers saw Ruby walking up and down the street near the TSBD. The 3 women observed Ruby handing a pistol to a man who was identical to LHO. Was this the pistol with the defective firing pin taken from the possession of the man arrested in the Texas Theatre?  Mrs. Valez told her story of Ruby giving Oswald a pistol to her mother (Mrs Evelyn Harris), who was interviewed by FBI agent Manning on 30th November '63. Neither Mrs. Valez nor her co-workers were interviewed by the DPD or FBI.  Also remember Dallas police patrolman Tom G. Tilson Jr., alleged that he saw a man loading a rifle into a vehicle immediately after the assassination.  According to Marrs' 'Crossfire' Tilson immediately recognised the man as Jack Ruby.

I do not know Wilma Tice's profession.  I had always assumed she was just an onlooker outside Parkland.  As for Roy Stamps, he was a newsman and was in the hall at Parkland when he noticed Ruby enter the hospital.  He said Ruby was carrying some television equipment and trailing behind a tv crew.  Penn Jones was also at Parkland, and he took a photograph that he published in his 'Forgive My Grief', that he claimed contained the image of Ruby.

This post could go on longer with Ruby's links to witnesses etc., in the Tippit murder case.

[Joe Bauer]

21 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

There's more!  Carracci & Pecora were associates of Marcello in NOLA. On October 10th Ruby took flight 985 on American Airlines to NOLA, he was seen meeting with Carracci. Weiner was linked to Trafficante & Hoffa. Baker was a bagman for Hoffa & Gruber was one of Hoffa's 'key officials'.  Miller was head of the Southern Conference of Teamsters.  On the 21st., Ruby visited Lawrence Meyers at the Cabana Hotel.  Meyers was with Jean West aka Jean Aase who lived in a Chicago apartment that David Ferrie telephoned on 24th September.  Dallas cabdriver Raymond Cummings informed Garrison that he had driven Ferrie and Oswald to the Carousel in early '63.  Around 8pm on November 23rd., David Ferrie arrived in Galveston, just before the arrival in that town of Ruby's friend Breck Wall, and just before Ruby made a phone call to Galveston.

As for Mrs. Louis Valez, she and two co-workers saw Ruby walking up and down the street near the TSBD. The 3 women observed Ruby handing a pistol to a man who was identical to LHO. Was this the pistol with the defective firing pin taken from the possession of the man arrested in the Texas Theatre?  Mrs. Valez told her story of Ruby giving Oswald a pistol to her mother (Mrs Evelyn Harris), who was interviewed by FBI agent Manning on 30th November '63. Neither Mrs. Valez nor her co-workers were interviewed by the DPD or FBI.  Also remember Dallas police patrolman Tom G. Tilson Jr., alleged that he saw a man loading a rifle into a vehicle immediately after the assassination.  According to Marrs' 'Crossfire' Tilson immediately recognised the man as Jack Ruby.

I do not know Wilma Tice's profession.  I had always assumed she was just an onlooker outside Parkland.  As for Roy Stamps, he was a newsman and was in the hall at Parkland when he noticed Ruby enter the hospital.  He said Ruby was carrying some television equipment and trailing behind a tv crew.  Penn Jones was also at Parkland, and he took a photograph that he published in his 'Forgive My Grief', that he claimed contained the image of Ruby.

This post could go on longer with Ruby's links to witnesses etc., in the Tippit murder case.

Excellent.

[Pete Mellor]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Excellent.

Coming from your eloquent self Joe, I take that as a great compliment.

The above posts come from my article 'Jack Ruby and the events of November 22nd 1963' that was published in the Dealey Plaza Echo in the winter edition of 2014.  Vol.17 Issue 2.

[Ron Bulman]

15 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

There's more!  Carracci & Pecora were associates of Marcello in NOLA. On October 10th Ruby took flight 985 on American Airlines to NOLA, he was seen meeting with Carracci. Weiner was linked to Trafficante & Hoffa. Baker was a bagman for Hoffa & Gruber was one of Hoffa's 'key officials'.  Miller was head of the Southern Conference of Teamsters.  On the 21st., Ruby visited Lawrence Meyers at the Cabana Hotel.  Meyers was with Jean West aka Jean Aase who lived in a Chicago apartment that David Ferrie telephoned on 24th September.  Dallas cabdriver Raymond Cummings informed Garrison that he had driven Ferrie and Oswald to the Carousel in early '63.  Around 8pm on November 23rd., David Ferrie arrived in Galveston, just before the arrival in that town of Ruby's friend Breck Wall, and just before Ruby made a phone call to Galveston.

As for Mrs. Louis Valez, she and two co-workers saw Ruby walking up and down the street near the TSBD. The 3 women observed Ruby handing a pistol to a man who was identical to LHO. Was this the pistol with the defective firing pin taken from the possession of the man arrested in the Texas Theatre?  Mrs. Valez told her story of Ruby giving Oswald a pistol to her mother (Mrs Evelyn Harris), who was interviewed by FBI agent Manning on 30th November '63. Neither Mrs. Valez nor her co-workers were interviewed by the DPD or FBI.  Also remember Dallas police patrolman Tom G. Tilson Jr., alleged that he saw a man loading a rifle into a vehicle immediately after the assassination.  According to Marrs' 'Crossfire' Tilson immediately recognised the man as Jack Ruby.

I do not know Wilma Tice's profession.  I had always assumed she was just an onlooker outside Parkland.  As for Roy Stamps, he was a newsman and was in the hall at Parkland when he noticed Ruby enter the hospital.  He said Ruby was carrying some television equipment and trailing behind a tv crew.  Penn Jones was also at Parkland, and he took a photograph that he published in his 'Forgive My Grief', that he claimed contained the image of Ruby.

This post could go on longer with Ruby's links to witnesses etc., in the Tippit murder case.

Thanks again Pete for this too.  I remember reading about Ruby's telephone records, the names Pecora, Weiner and Gruber in particular ring bells for me.  I think this was 30 something years ago from either Contract on America by David Scheim or Mafia Kingfish by John Davis.  Meyers at the Cabana, later when questioned about Jean West/Aase he described her as something like she's not real smart, but very accommodating.  I did read something once about Ruby handing someone a pistol, but didn't know or remember at least it was Oswald, that there were three witnesses, never questioned.  More on the tv eq later.

I went looking for your article in the Dealy Plaza Echo.  I had looked for something by Bart Kamp there and I think I got the same response as tonight.  My malware pops up and says site compromised, something about hackers attacking it?  I'd really like to read your article. 

[Pete Mellor]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I went looking for your article in the Dealy Plaza Echo.  I had looked for something by Bart Kamp there and I think I got the same response as tonight.  My malware pops up and says site compromised, something about hackers attacking it?  I'd really like to read your article. 

Ron, I checked the list of Echo journals that have been loaded onto DPUK's website in pdf format.  The edition from 2014 is not on the list.

[Joe Bauer]

On 2/26/2024 at 8:49 AM, Pete Mellor said:

On 2/26/2024 at 4:14 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Excellent.

Coming from your eloquent self Joe, I take that as a great compliment.

Me? Eloquent? Ha!

I'm just grateful the forum tolerates my uneducated layman, surface coverage postings.