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Jack Ruby, Foreknowledge?


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Maybe, maybe not of the assassination itself, but I personally have come to think over the years he knew something was going to happen.

For me this started with one of the first books I read on the JFKA.  Seth Kantor's The Ruby Cover-Up.  Ruby tugging on Seths' coat, asking "have you heard anything?' at Parkland.  As they knew each other I thought, hmm.  Why was JR there, wanting to know, for himself or others?  But the Warren Omission believed the strip club owner over the national reporter.

Then a few years back I read about Ruby asking an FBI informant I believe, if he wanted to go see the "Fireworks".  I know, the official story is he was at the Dallas Morning News, hanging around regarding his clubs newspaper ad.  The informant said Ruby came to a nearby attorney's office and asked them if they wanted to go see the fireworks.  The attorney declined.  Ruby and the informant went to the corner of Commerce and Houston, across Dealy Plaza from the parade and watched it.  Immediately after Ruby headed back towards the Dallas Morning News.

Then I read yesterday something I'd forgotten.  George Alpin, a witness at the Texas Theater, questioned by the WC, said years later he saw JR there in the seats observing the arrest of Oswald, advising him to move back as they had guns.  Ruby ignored him.  He didn't report this for years fearing his own safety, was told originally by a DPD officer never to mention it.  More thoughts on this later.

Last, for tonight as to all in the same day.  We have JR standing on a table, pen and pad in hand, (gun in his pocket-he said so) claiming to be a Jewish reporter, at the showing to the press of Oswald yelling , correcting "Henry, (Wade-DA) That's the Fair Play For Cuba Committee."   

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Re-reading the above made me remember Ruby in Vegas 3-4 days before the assassination.  Per Larry Hancock's Tipping Point, two separate informants', one for the sheriff's department, one for the FBI.  Seen at the hotel Roselli was famous for helping develop, had the parking concession and rights to run the gift shop and was in charge of booking acts, for a commission.  I think it was the Tropicana, from memory.  Using the name of Lewis McWillie as a reference to cash a check.

Then when he gets back to Dallas tells his lawyer he could soon pay off his back taxes.  Makes a large cash bank deposit.  Something about getting a new apartment in Turtle Creek.  All that and my first post make me wonder.

But, going off the deep end here, a brainstorm, speculation makes me ask questions.  If Alpin was being truthful in his later life claim, that he recognized Ruby on television as a person he had seen and spoken to in the Texas Theater.  If he was told by a member of the Dallas Police Department to never mention this and was in fear of his safety given other witnesses intimidation and more in some cases.  Why would Ruby have been in the Texas Theater, sitting down, observing (one) Oswald's arrest?

Was he the contact Oswald was looking for?  Was he supposed to kill Oswald there?

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I don't know Bill, I think they were both patsy's.  Oswald declared it to the world, he probably already knew he was doomed but that probably sealed the deal.  He was most likely intended to have already been silenced and sacrificed.  Ruby confessed somewhat indiscreetly, they knew he was mob enough to know what would happen to him and possible accidents for family members if he talked too loudly.  They knew (with help) they could probably keep him under control in jail at the sheriff's office.

Regarding Applin I wondered, where did I read that originally?  Surely not as far back as Crossfire?  Yep!  Pg. 342.

", told the Commission he was watching the movie when the lights came on and a policeman with a rifle or shotgun began moving down his aisle.  Applin said he was sitting in the downstairs middle aisle about six rows from the back when the commotion began.  He moved down the aisle to ask what was going on,  . . .  Applin then witnessed Oswald's arrest.

At the close of his Warren Commission testimony, Applin said:

But, there is this one thing puzzling me . . . there was one guy sitting in the back row right where I was standing at, and I said to him, I said "Buddy, you'd better move. There is a gun."  And he says- just sat there.  . . . Just watching (then) just looking at me.

Applin told Commision attorney Joseph Ball twice he didn't know the man but in 1979, he told a news reporter that two days later, following the Oswald slaying, he recognized the man as Jack Ruby.  Applin told the Dallas Morning News:

At the time the Warren Commission had me down there at the Post Office in Dallas to get my statement, "I was afraid to give it.  I gave everything up to the point OF WHAT I GAVE THE POLICE IN TOWN" . . . " ***  . . .  I'm a pretty nervous guy anyway . . .  it just kind of made me keep a low profile . . . 

[Jack} Ruby was sitting down, just watching them.  And when Oswald pulled the gun . . . that's when I tapped him on the shoulder and told him he had better move because the guns were waving around.  He just turned around and looked at me.  Then he turned around and started watching them." 

***  So, he told the DPD, after Oswald was assassinated by Ruby that he'd seen Ruby watching Oswald's arrest in the Texas Theater?  Then he told the Warren Omission . . . one thing puzzling me.

 

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There is some interesting stuff about Ruby foreknowledge in the Fanin book, The Innocence of Oswald.

And there is also the Julia Ann Mercer testimony.

Ruby was a man for all seasons, and how Stephen King tried to write him off in 11/22/63 was a disgrace.

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15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

There is some interesting stuff about Ruby foreknowledge in the Fanin book, The Innocence of Oswald.

I'm stumped.  I thought I'd read of the title of this book, but never anything about it.  So I went to Amazon, 4.3 on 165 ratings, a couple of the reviews I read mention it being great for beginners.  In the Amazon description this is what stumped me:

Includes the document of Jack Ruby admitting to Dallas County Police (while in Dallas County Records Building/Asst. District Attorney Office) on 11/21/63, 'You probably don't know me now, but you will.' 

I thought, I remember reading this, but where?  I thought again maybe Crossfire?  I could find nothing in it.  So, I googled the term, Jack Ruby and Kennedy assassination.  Nothing other than, there it is in the Wikipedia description of JR, under November 21.

A number of Dallas police officers were meeting in the office of Assistant District Attorney Ben Ellis when Ruby entered and passed out business cards advertising a gig by Jada, a stripper at the Carousel. According to Lt. W. F. Dyson, Ruby introduced himself to Ellis and added: "You probably don't know me now, but you will."

Ah ha!  I went back to the index of Crossfire and found Starvis Ellis but not Bill Ellis.  But Dyson equaled bingo!  Pg. 370.

On the day before Kennedy's assassination . . . in the Dallas County District Attorney's Office.  One officer, Dallas Police lieutenant W.F. Dyson, later told the Warren Commission that it was here that he and other officers encountered a short, stocky nightclub owner who was going out of his way to make their acquaintance.  Dyson overheard this man - Jack Ruby - tell the officers, "You probably don't know me, but you will".

I still thought I'd read something more, maybe about why he was at the police HQ.  I don't think it would address this but the fact Dyson's statement was to the WC was intriguing.  The Wikipedia quote is refenced in their end notes to "Chapter 6: Investigation of Possible Conspiracy". Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Washington, D.C.: United States Government Printing Office. 1964.  I don't see it there under Ruby's activities from November 21 through November 24, 1963 (they start with the evening of 11/21.

Jim's name is on this list, but Dyson's is not.   JFK Asaassination witness page (jfk-assassination.net).  Nor is it on this one John F. Kennedy Assassination Homepage :: Warren Commission :: Testimony Index (jfk-assassination.eu).

Why was JR in the DPD HQ the day before the assassination in the first place?  Much less ingratiating himself with DPD Officers, not just patrolmen, and bragging, "You probably don't know me now, but you will."

I know I should stay away from the brainstorming process, but.  Was he there for a private meeting with say Westbrook (who was at the TT), excited about his potential role - in some capacity - and perceived (positive?) coming fame.  IDK.

 

 

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Jack Ruby...God's stupidly pathetic gift to all of America in their time of desperate truth seeking need regards who just brutally slaughtered their young president JFK.

To White Knight save Jackie Kennedy from more distress, or to prove Jews had guts he blows away "the most important" criminal suspect in America's history ( Lee Harvey Oswald ) and the only person who could have provided the truths America sought in the JFKA case.

Thank you Jack Ruby. America loves you and I am sure Jackie K. saw you as her avenging hero!

The only thing I appreciated Jack Ruby for was his Carousel Club bevy of beauties. Which added a sensually pleasurable side-story aspect to the entire JFKA story imo.

If only Jack Ruby could have kept his delusion of hero grandeur under check we might have learned so much from a living Lee Harvey Oswald. And Ruby could have continued his love affair with Sheba and his gorgeous girls could have kept warming the hearts, desires and fantasies of thousands of customers for years more.

What a loss! 

And why the Warren Commission believed this nut case over highly reputable journalist Seth Kantor regards Kantor's under oath claim of meeting Jack Ruby at Parkland hospital the afternoon of 11,22,1963 is...well... a travesty.

Edited by Joe Bauer
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Author Mel Barney on Jack Ruby having secret military clearance to fly on test flights of a new CIA plane on September 1, 1962

Mel Barney (who passed away in 2023), the author of Four Wars sent Robert Morrow this email in 2013

Four Wars: Mel Barney: 9780984761425: Amazon.com: Books

Robert,

I have positive evidence that Jack Ruby had a US government clearance own September 1, 1961 when he flew on a highly secret CIA flight. [RM: I think Mel meant 9/1/1962 as he writes in his book.]

I have the original flight logs, that has his name and I come in him on the flight.

All of this is covered in my new book FOUR WARS.

Please contact me by telephone at xxx-xxx-xxxx or e-mail at ____________.

Or you can visit my website at www.MelBarney [dot]com

CIA u-2 replacement after Gary Powers was shot down on 5-1-1960 – Jack ruby was allowed to fly on a test flight on 9/1/1962

Mel Barney, author of Four Wars 

Texas Instruments had already developed a secret system (now declassified) that would safely and automatically fly high-speed military aircraft at altitudes as low as 200 feet above the ground.  (Below radar detection altitude.) The CIA was responsible for locating nuclear development and launch sites in Russia and Cuba. Soon after CIA U-2 Pilot Gary Powers was shot down on May 1, 1960 at an altitude 74,000 feet, the Texas Instruments System was purchased by the CIA to provide the functions formerly assigned to the highflying U-2 aircraft. The system was classified US military secret and a ’need to know’ was required before anyone was allowed to observe demonstration flights.  I (Mel Barney) was the program manager for the development of this automatic terrain following system.  I still have the original flight log for the development of this system.  The log shows the date, pilot, and observers of each of these very dangerous flights over both flatlands and mountains. The system was quickly put into production and various versions of the system was installed on the McDonnell RF-4C, General Dynamics F-111, LTV A-7, Grumman A-6, C-130 and several other military aircraft. Several of these military aircraft were responsible for finding the Russian missile sites in Cuba that initiated the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Information included in the original flight log identifies all of the people who were able to get the secret clearance and the ‘need to know’ that was required to observe these low-level dangerous flights.  On September 1, 1962, Jack Ruby, who Mel recognized, received military secret clearance and a ‘need to know’ to fly on two of these flights.  Jack Ruby was then allowed to observe flights over the Appalachian Mountains west of Washington DC. 

 Mel Barney's Association through his local CIA contact lasted for more than 16 years. He traveled to 54 different countries coordinating his activities with the CIA during this period.  In May of 1972 Brezhnev’s and Nixon’s ‘Détente’ Plan was initiated to cool off the Cold War. This program involved an exchange of engineering technology between Russia and the United States. In September 1972, Mel's Dallas CIA contact asked if he would like to make a secret visit to Moscow. Mel agreed and visited Moscow in October 1972.  The result was the start of technology exchanges between Russian and United States engineers. By 1975 Americans, for the first time could obtain visas to visit Russia. All of the above information is described in Mel Barney's book, (FOUR  WARS).

There are many stories of the activities that took place in some of the places that Mel Barney visited in co-operation with the CIA. Among others they include being kidnapped in Legos Nigeria and shot at in Jakarta Indonesia.  I believe the above information would provide the foundation for a very interesting program for your radio show. Mel Barney, Tel  972-406-9658, e-mail Barney.Mel@Gmail.com, website www.melbarney.com

Mel Barney died on 8/3/2023:

His obituary https://obits.dallasnews.com/us/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/name/george-barney-obituary?id=52658213

George Barney Obituary

BARNEY, George Melvin George Melvin Barney, 95, of Plano, passed away on Thursday, August 3, 2023. Melvin was born in Shreveport, Louisiana on April 16, 1928, to Lester Kirk and Ruby Lee Weeks (Barney) Dudley. A graduate of Fair Park High school in Shreveport, LA, and Louisiana Tech in Ruston, LA. Mel worked for Texas Instruments, and later founded his own firm, Merit Technology. He travelled the world with his family and work, received numerous patents, was an avid golfer, and loved spending time with his family. Mel was predeceased by his wife of 66 years, Carolyn. Mel is survived by his daughter Barbara Barney, his son Mike Barney and his wife Katherine. Also, 5 incredible grandchildren and four great-grandchildren, and his brother, Harvey Barney, his sister-in-law Francis Carlisle and many nieces and nephews. A celebration of life will be held at Brookhaven Country Club in Farmers Branch at 3pm on Friday August 11, 2023. In lieu of flowers memorials can be made to Louisiana Tech's athletic scholarship fund or your favorite charity. www.LATechAlumni.com Football scholarship fund

Published by Dallas Morning News on Aug. 9, 2023.

The 2017 obituary of Carolyn Haggard Barney, who was Mel Barney’s wife - https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/dallas-tx/carolyn-barney-7528561

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13 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Jack Ruby...God's stupidly pathetic gift to all of America in their time of desperate truth seeking need regards who just brutally slaughtered their young president JFK.

To White Knight save Jackie Kennedy from more distress, or to prove Jews had guts he blows away "the most important" criminal suspect in America's history ( Lee Harvey Oswald ) and the only person who could have provided the truths America sought in the JFKA case.

Thank you Jack Ruby. America loves you and I am sure Jackie K. saw you as her avenging hero!

The only thing I appreciated Jack Ruby for was his Carousel Club bevy of beauties. Which added a sensually pleasurable side-story aspect to the entire JFKA story imo.

If only Jack Ruby could have kept his delusion of hero grandeur under check we might have learned so much from a living Lee Harvey Oswald. And Ruby could have continued his love affair with Sheba and his gorgeous girls could have kept warming the hearts, desires and fantasies of thousands of customers for years more.

What a loss! 

And why the Warren Commission believed this nut case over highly reputable journalist Seth Kantor regards Kantor's under oath claim of meeting Jack Ruby at Parkland hospital the afternoon of 11,22,1963 is...well... a travesty.

I agree with you on a lot of this but in my novice-level research, it appears to me that Ruby was mob controlled and that they may have used his personal life as leverage, amongst other things.  To me it seems he was homosexual, which at the time was completely unacceptable socially, and if you look at his history of male roommates well into adulthood, as well as his demeanor amongst his female employees, he does not appear to be attracted to women.  Just look at this photo of Ruby with Geneva White 🤔

IMG_5720.jpeg

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On 2/7/2024 at 8:24 PM, Ron Bulman said:

"You probably don't know me now, but you will."

JR is an enigma.  Re reading his Warren Commission testimony the other day a couple of statements to Warren himself made me wonder further about foreknowledge.  One, I have been used for a purpose . . . now a new form of government (will come about? - paraphrased from memory).   I'll look for the other in a few days, going to be busy.  Or see/look for yourself. 

 Testimony Of Mr. Jack Ruby (jfk-assassination.net)  

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As far as evidence of foreknowledge. You've seen this right?

 

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Jack Ruby always owned a gun.

Carousel Club errand man Larry Crafard and others testified he would keep the gun in a bag and maybe in his car. And even carry it on his person while transporting cash to deposit in his bank.

Didn't Ruby run into some gun ownership and carrying legal problems with the Dallas PD years before 11/22/1963?

One can reasonably assume from the testimony of those who knew Ruby and/or worked closely with him at the Carousel Club, he usually didn't keep his gun on his person. 

I don't think Ruby kept it on his person when he went to his synagogue, or to the YMCA gym, to visit his sister, etc. etc.

When Ruby was MCing his club act I doubt he kept his gun on his person. Probably kept it in his office. Maybe in a drawer or in his safe?

I have read where Ruby did keep brass knuckles on his person semi-regularly and possibly while doing his show in case he had to perform some serious lesson teaching bashing of any unruly customer who dared fight him back while he threw them down the entrance stairs and/or beat their brains out on the sidewalk. To which one of his strippers recalled once seeing him do this and then standing up and with a look of bewilderment shout to no one in particular..."why am I doing this?"

Ruby's gun, brass knuckles and gym punching bag training, etc. suggest to me a Mafia muscle experience type person. One who knows what he needs to carry and use to handle any enforcer message job that may come his way.

Which leads me to ponder the following facts:

Ruby runs to the Dallas PD building and enters it the evening of 11/22/1963?

He is worked up after an afternoon of anguished tears and crying about the loss of our beloved president and the plight of his traumatized young wife.

He decides to literally thrust himself into the DPD building and the middle of the bustling press crowd which he must have known was risky with someone important among the DPD very possibly recognizing him and telling him to leave.

The police had to have had at least some concern about who was running into their building in that frantic Oswald presence time. Maybe even stationing guards at the entrance?

Most of the police hated the fact that they had to fight through crowds of press people and their cameras and cables to do their job. Chief Curry insisted this press crush be there however, to show the world he and his department weren't physically abusing Oswald.

Tacky strip club owning Ruby just saunters into that unprecedented frantic security scene though, like he just sauntered into the other super heightened security scene DPD basement just 44 hours later on 11/24/1963?

And both times Ruby is carrying his pistol to boot!

He knew that beyond his risky entrance and presence in the DPD building during the most heightened security time in their history, that if he was stopped and found to be carrying his gun he could have been asked to leave and dressed down by even his buddies in the department.

Bringing in deli sandwiches into the DPD building late at night to hand out to his friends there on a slow night was just not the same as going in there armed the evening of 11/22/1963 when the entire scene was a super frantic security armed camp.

My ponderances are why Ruby felt he needed his gun on his person upon thrusting himself into the DPD building that evening.

Especially when he knew the scene there would be hyper-security minded charged and touchy.

He certainly also knew he didn't need his gun for his own personal protection there at all. So why did he bring it?

To me it was clear that Ruby brought his gun into the building to try to get to Oswald and do him in. Just as he did on the morning of 11/24/1963 inside the DPD basement just before Oswald was led to within feet of him where he could blow a hole into Oswald's guts.

Again, going into the DPD parking basement Ruby knew he didn't need his gun on him for his own protection.

Arming himself in penetrating both those scenes showed only one intent. To use his gun in a killing or seriously harming of Oswald ...if he got the chance.

Totally premeditative thought process. 

If Ruby really just innocently happened to be at the Western Union office within walking distance to the DPD basement just minutes before Oswald's transfer from there and also out of innocent curiosity decided to see what the outside crowd scene was all about to the degree of walking down there...It is totally illogical to think he should arm himself while doing so, and not simply leave his gun locked in his car.

Ruby transferred what...$25 to Little Lynn on his visit to the Western Union office? He felt he had to carry his gun while doing so? $25 to $30 in cash on his person made him feel that vulnerable?

Ruby knew the afternoon of 11/22/1963 he had to get to Oswald. And everyone knew then and now it wasn't to prove Jews had guts or to save Jackie Kennedy from more pain and suffering.

As Seth Kantor well established through solid research, Ruby was a bag man, a gun runner, a pimp, a gambling facilitator, mob errand boy when called on (his Cuba trip to help Mafia Don Santos Trafficante get out of prison there ) and even at times an FBI informant even if rarely and low level.

All those proven nefarious background facts regards the real Jack Ruby, forces you to strongly suspect that his actions on the weekend of 11/22/1963 through 11/24/1963 were motivated by what Ruby himself described..." outside forces/people who put him in the situation he found himself in" after shooting Oswald.

Are those people in high positions Jack? Ruby..."yes."

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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19 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

As far as evidence of foreknowledge. You've seen this right?

 

No, I had not seen the video, thanks for posting it.  I have read it before, I can't remember the officer's name at the moment.  I have no doubt Ruby was told to kill Oswald, as it was premeditated, he had foreknowledge.  Regarding the JFKA itself I have little doubt anymore he had foreknowledge something was going to happen.  Hence, the statement from the FBI informant about JR saying, Let's go watch the fireworks.  

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On 2/8/2024 at 2:24 AM, Ron Bulman said:

On the day before Kennedy's assassination . . . in the Dallas County District Attorney's Office.  One officer, Dallas Police lieutenant W.F. Dyson, later told the Warren Commission that it was here that he and other officers encountered a short, stocky nightclub owner who was going out of his way to make their acquaintance.  Dyson overheard this man - Jack Ruby - tell the officers, "You probably don't know me, but you will".

Ron, D.P.U.K. recently had a Zoom presentation with U.S. researcher Chris Gallop.  He told us that his Grandfather was a bell-boy working in the Adolphus Hotel, where Ruby would often enter to pass out his business card to tout for customers for his Carousel Club just across the street.  So, Chris' Grandfather knew Ruby by sight and shortly before the big event JR came into the Adolphus and passed the bell-boy his business card.  Jack then signed it on the reverse side saying something like "everyone's going to know who Jack Ruby is soon."

When Chris became interested in the JFK case years later, Grandaddy gave him an old envelope containing Ruby's signed business card.  A cute piece of memorabilia he has in a glass case which he displayed to us on the Zoom session.

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7 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

When Chris became interested in the JFK case years later, Grandaddy gave him an old envelope containing Ruby's signed business card.  A cute piece of memorabilia he has in a glass case which he displayed to us on the Zoom session.

Did the Jack Ruby signed Carousel Club business card shown to Chris by his grandaddy have the message you cite anywhere on the card? "Everyone's going to know who Jack Ruby is soon." ?

I don't feel Jack Ruby would ever write something like that down on any card or document ever.

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