Our Lady of the Warren Commission: Ruth Paine by Johnny Cairns

[James DiEugenio]

Johnny Cairns crossed the pond over the anniversary to go the scene of the crime.

On the way he witnesses an interview by author and good buddy Thomas Mallon for good ole Ruthie to go through her paces.

As you will see it was all a set up from go one.  Which Johnny does a nice job exposing.

No one asks, for instance, what sense does it make for Oswald to shoot at a fascist type rightwing nut, but then shoot and kill the most liberal president since FDR?

I mean was anyone awake?  Plus he missed from close range at Walker, but performs a fantastic piece of marksmanship in the Kennedy case.

Hmm. Mallon marches on.  With Ruthie.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/our-lady-of-the-warren-commission-part-1-2

 

[David Von Pein]

22 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

No one asks, for instance, what sense does it make for Oswald to shoot at a fascist type rightwing nut, but then shoot and kill the most liberal president since FDR? .... Plus he missed from close range at Walker, but performs a fantastic piece of marksmanship in the Kennedy case.

In order to keep the idea of a nonexistent conspiracy alive in the Walker and JFK shootings, James DiEugenio, as usual, will ignore the obvious and clear answers to the questions he posed above.

IOW --- Different day....same old worn-out CTer crap. Yawn.

Edited February 19 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

Sorry, have to side with Jim on this one.  

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Cory.

It has always puzzled me how Ruth extends out the Walker case as some kind of ace to bolster the case on the JFK side.

When, as many have pointed out, like Ben Cole and Scott Reid and the late Gerald Knight, that case is fraught with problems all the way.  I mean Oswald was not even a suspect in it for like 7 1/2 months.

And OMG, an ACLU member objecting to a man asking for a lawyer?

Edited February 19 by James DiEugenio

[W. Tracy Parnell]

20 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

IOW --- Different day....same old worn-out CTer crap. Yawn.

Right David. Please allow me to add my own link:

W. Tracy Parnell: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine (wtracyparnell.blogspot.com)

[James DiEugenio]

You know, I have both DVP and Parnell on ignore.  I will never take DVP off.

But I stupidly took at look at Parnell's.  What a mistake.

"Attorney General Robert Kennedy oversaw an organized assassination operation against the bearded leader."

With the declassification of the CIA's IG report, writing something like that is just pure ignorance or its a deliberate, desperate smear.

On pages 132, 133 of that report the authors ask the question: can we claim we had presidential approval for the plots?

They answer that they cannot. Since Eisenhower, Kennedy and LBJ were ignorant of them.

The only way Bobby Kennedy knew about them was through the bungled wiretap in Las Vegas that Maheu approved for Giancana to spy on his girlfriend Phyllis McGuire. When Bobby found out about it through the FBI he wanted to know why Maheu was so kind to a thug like Giancana, who Bobby was pursuing  with all he had.  It was then that  CIA briefed him on  the plots, since they had to.  They then assured him they were stopped.  This was false and the briefers knew it was false when they told RFK that.

Anyone who has not read that 145 page report which was declassified by the ARRB, should not be writing on the topic since it is the definitive document on the subject matter.  But with many of these Krazy Kid Oswald zealots--like the late John McAdams--there is a dual agenda at work.  Cover up the facts of JFK's murder, and also cover up who he really was.

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

I love what he says about Ed Curtin and his review of Max Good's film.

Tracy leaves out the article that Holland wrote for the CIA's online zine.

And what Max exposed about Priscilla Johnson.

Let alone as Leslie has shown, the Paines did have a cozy relationship with FBI agent Bardwell Odum.

[James DiEugenio]

He then says the Paines really did not have anything to do with convicting Oswald for the Commission.

LOL.

They were clearly the most questioned people of anyone.  Over 6,000 questions combined.

Now compare that to how many question were asked of Thornton Boswell.  Go ahead, count them up. That, in and of itself, proves the Commission was a set up.

He then says we should ignore this, it was really the evidence.

Geez Tracy, ever hear of Mrs. Paine's garage?  Or the limitless stream of stuff that Ruth kept turning up: like vacation guides for Mexico City?

 

Edited February 20 by James DiEugenio

[Greg Doudna]

15 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

He then says the Paines really did not have anything to do with convicting Oswald for the Commission.

LOL.

They were clearly the most questioned people of anyone.  Over 6,000 questions combined.

Now compare that to how many question were asked of Thornton Boswell.  Go ahead, count them up. That, in and of itself, proves the Commission was a set up.

He then says we should ignore this, it was really the evidence.

Geez Tracy, ever hear of Mrs. Paine's garage?  Or the limitless stream of stuff that Ruth kept turning up: like vacation guides for Mexico City?

This is not logical. The number of questions asked is irrelevant, not in Ruth Paine’s control anyway. Nothing in Ruth’s testimony implicated Oswald in any crime. That is just fact. She never witnessed Oswald committing a crime or planning a crime, never claimed so in her testimony. That is just fact.

And to attack Ruth Paine for the contents of physical belongings she let Oswald store in her home rent-free as if she was guilty of wrongdoing in doing that, is illogical, unless you are claiming she was party to planting any of those things, for which there is not the slightest proof and no plausibility, nothing stronger than baseless witchcraft-accusation genre.

And you cite a Mexico City item as if that is evidence Ruth implicated Oswald in a crime. Good grief. Crime of what?? Going to Mexico City? That is crazy tunes logic. 

The Warren Commission in its massive report claimed it had evidence Oswald killed JFK (and Tippit and the shot at Walker). It detailed its evidential claims of its case against Oswald. 

But they did not get any claimed evidence that Oswald did any of those crimes from Ruth Paine’s testimony. They just didn’t. It is simply not accurate to keep repeating that factually untrue description, designed in this audience to pile on further smearing of Ruth Paine. 

These comments are directed at DiEugenio not Cairns. I don’t agree with Cairns in the article but he makes several serious points which deserve addressing, not my purpose here.

Cairns at least has the decency to address Ruth Paine by her correct name. Jim your “Ruthie” is offensive.

[Paul Cummings]

Ruth Paine isn't a victim.

[James DiEugenio]

Ruth Paine is one of the most extreme zealots I have ever seen for the Warren Commission.

At times she reminds me of the late David Belin in her incredible vituperativeness.

The most bizarre thing about her is that she never questions any of the evidence. 

 

[Paula Botan]

I have never found the Paines to be credible. The reason is quite simple. My late mother-in-law was an executive secretary for a defense contractor for much of her career. As such, she told me that she had a security clearance and had been thoroughly investigated by the FBI.

In 2009, Ernst Titovets invited me to visit Minsk as a thank you for helping with his book. When I applied for my passport I was denied. I literally had to get my congressman involved to ensure that I could resolve the problem. Thankfully it was resolved. I have no idea why I would have been denied a passport other than that I was communicating with someone who let's just say was or is "connected" and I was the daughter-in-law of a woman who still worked for a defense contractor. I'm actually grateful it happened. In retrospect it showed me how the system is supposed to work.

How is it possible that Michael Paine had a security clearance AND was spending his free time with a Russian defector?! And he never gets a visit by the FBI or fired from his job at Bell Helicopter? Does anybody really believe this stuff?

[Greg Doudna]

16 minutes ago, Paula Botan said:

How is it possible that Michael Paine had a security clearance AND was spending his free time with a Russian defector?! And he never gets a visit by the FBI or fired from his job at Bell Helicopter? Does anybody really believe this stuff?

I think Michael Paine informed whoever was involved in security at Bell, and perhaps the FBI directly or indirectly via a security office at Bell, and cleared that it was OK for his wife to take in Marina, knowing who Oswald was and all. In fact I can hardly imagine he would not have checked whether that was going to be a problem or not, in the Cold War atmosphere at the time.  

And who says Michael Paine "never gets a visit by the FBI" or was not in contact with the FBI, perhaps even an informant?

Michael Paine never was asked, and never denied being in contact with the FBI, to my knowledge. 

Ruth Paine denied knowledge that Michael was an FBI informant, is the closest there is to a denial. But that did not come from Michael directly. 

Michael could have been feeding reports in regularly on Marina and Lee for all we know. 

It doesn't make him or Ruth involved in killing Kennedy or framing Oswald with planted or forged physical evidence etc etc.

[Karl Kinaski]

Don't know if this is common knowledge. Ruth Pain had a birthright friend Margaret Scattergood. (A birthright friend is a person whose parents registered them as a Quaker at birth. ). acc. to a user-comment under the YT Video: "An Evening With Ruth Paine on Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald" 

quote: 

Quote

@stevenuanna4747
4 days ago
Ruth, at 54:45 you stopped at the church in Birmingham where the the 4 little girls were killed? That’s nice, Quakers are often at the fore front of black civil rights, labor movements and women’s suffrage. That allows them intimate access to the movements. My question to you is have you ever been to Wild Bill Donovan’s or the Dulles brothers homes in Georgetown? Or to 23rd and E Street NW Washington., Navy Hill? The OSS and later CIA headquarters. Has your sister Sylvia Hyde Hoke or your father? The woman that the CIA allowed to live in the mansion at CIA Headquarters at Langley, Margaret Scattergood, she was a “Birthright Friend” did you know her? Are you a”Birthright Friend”? I’m just wondering.

A quick search showed me that this Lady Scattergood has written CIA all over her face.

Note: Ruth Paine was working for IC's "sanctuary movement" in the eighties of the last century in Central America. Scattergood and (maybe) Ruth Paine was a  birthright friend and both were involved in that movement it seems. 

Quote from the article linked above:

Quote

In the late 1970s, Blanchet (Sylvia Blanchet, a great-great grandniece of Margaret Scattergood) and her husband moved into the property’s guesthouse. Their son was born there, and the placenta was buried on the property. With their aunt, they attended the Langley Hill Quakers meeting just down the street. When the group got involved in the sanctuary movement, which helped Central American refugees flee into the United States in the 1980s, their family did, too. 

Soon, Scattergood was having the refugees over for dinner. Some stayed in her guest room.

 

KK

 

 

 

Edited February 22 by Karl Kinaski

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Karl Kinaski said:

acc. to a user-comment under the YT Video: "An Evening With Ruth Paine on Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald" 

quote: 

A quick search showed me that this Lady Scattergood has written CIA all over her face.

Note: Ruth Paine was working for IC's "sanctuary movement" in the eighties of the last century in Central America. Scattergood, Ruth Paine's birthright friend was involved in that movement too. 

This is unjustified and an example of a recurring grievous phenomenon among some CT types who inhabit forums such as this: spreading entirely unfounded smears about innocent persons.

There is nothing whatever in the source you cite or any other source that supports "Lady Scattergood has written CIA all over her face". It is irresponsible of you to quote that soundbite which has no substantiation, where it will be picked up by some readers here who will assume because of your words that there may be something to it, which never was even alleged to my knowledge by anyone who knew her or of her. 

Margaret Scattergood had an outstanding reputation among Friends. She was almost legendary in how highly she was esteemed among Friends. She was opposed to the CIA because of the things it did in the world, demonstrated that in her words and actions from birth to death. 

As I understand it, she lived with a woman companion, her lifelong friend, in a mansion inherited from her ancestors. The CIA wanted her property upon which to build or expand their headquarters, and threatened to take it by eminent domain. This was not of Margaret Scattergood's wish or doing and she fought it. It was eventually settled in court to where she agreed to sell the estate (this sale was under duress), provided she and her companion were allowed to remain in the mansion and on the grounds which they lovingly tended for the remainder of their lives, which she did--living another forty years until age 92, before the CIA could take possession of her land of that forced sale.

Here is a more accurate picture of Margaret Scattergood. Chuck Fager, "Margaret Scattergood: In Memorium": https://www.friendsjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/1987/04/margaret-scattergood-in-memorium.pdf. 

Please, be more careful about spreading smearing of innocent persons.