Article: Why Allen Dulles Killed the Kennedys

[Douglas Caddy]

Orlando Bosh posted this on Facebook today.

 

 

Why Allen Dulles Killed the Kennedys (foreignpolicyjournal.com)

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Orlando Bosh posted this on Facebook today.

 

 

Why Allen Dulles Killed the Kennedys (foreignpolicyjournal.com)

This is a great article, Douglas.  Thank you for linking it.

[Ron Bulman]

I'm not sure why this shows up on the main forum.  My reply to Douglas was in the Water Coolers topic.

[Benjamin Cole]

This article is yet another train of thought that makes a great leap, and links groups that disliked JFK to the actual JFKA. 

John Davis wrote an entire book in 1989 linked the Marcello-Mafia to the JFKA.

Others have written that German Nazis, brought to the US under CIA aegis, were largely responsible for the JFKA. 

Then we have globalists, Dulles and the JFKA.

Also, the LBJ-JFKA. 

Interestingly, the veteran, very astute and circumspect JFKA scholar Larry Hancock, who wrote the book Someone Would Have Talked about many, many inklings and rumors inside the Cuban exiles-merc community pre-JFKA, does not say he has nailed down the JFKA.  The clues Hancock diligently assembled point to the Miami-CIA station and exile community. 

I have to say, sometimes the very people who go to great lengths to exonerate LHO of any role in the JFKA (even an unwitting role), and who skeptically examine every bit of evidence against LHO (as is proper), then turn around convict their favorite boogyman on the basis of un-cross-examined hearsay witnesses and other circumstantial evidence.

No one has ever presented the real-world mechanisms, the gunsels, the actual connections between their favorite boogyman and the JFKA. 

There was a hard connection between Tosh Plumlee and the Mormon Mafia---if you believe Tosh Plumlee. So which witnesses do you believe, and when? 

"So and so did it, loathed JFKA, and stood to benefit from JFKA's demise" is enough make someone a suspect.

But accusations are not convictions. 

 

Edited March 14 by Benjamin Cole

[Kevin Balch]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:06 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

This article is yet another train of thought that makes a great leap, and links groups that disliked JFK to the actual JFKA. 

John Davis wrote an entire book in 1989 linked the Marcello-Mafia to the JFKA.

Others have written that German Nazis, brought to the US under CIA aegis, were largely responsible for the JFKA. 

Then we have globalists, Dulles and the JFKA.

Also, the LBJ-JFKA. 

Interestingly, the veteran, very astute and circumspect JFKA scholar Larry Hancock, who wrote the book Someone Would Have Talked about many, many inklings and rumors inside the Cuban exiles-merc community pre-JFKA, does not say he has nailed down the JFKA.  The clues Hancock diligently assembled point to the Miami-CIA station and exile community. 

I have to say, sometimes the very people who go to great lengths to exonerate LHO of any role in the JFKA (even an unwitting role), and who skeptically examine every bit of evidence against LHO (as is proper), then turn around convict their favorite boogyman on the basis of un-cross-examined hearsay witnesses and other circumstantial evidence.

No one has ever presented the real-world mechanisms, the gunsels, the actual connections between their favorite boogyman and the JFKA. 

There was a hard connection between Tosh Plumlee and the Mormon Mafia---if you believe Tosh Plumlee. So which witnesses do you believe, and when? 

"So and so did it, loathed JFKA, and stood to benefit from JFKA's demise" is enough make someone a suspect.

But accusations are not convictions. 

 

I think the conflict between JFK and the CIA is overblown. JFK was enamored with fictional and real covert action and unconventional warfare. It seems to me that JFK’s major problem with the CIA was operational competence. The CIA’s strong suit was technical intelligence gathering and analysis which JFK appreciated. This led to the CIA proving there was no “missile gap” on which they briefed both JFK and LBJ during the 1960 campaign. Hardly the revelation the MIC would have welcomed. Nor would they have welcomed the USSR exceeding US nuclear throw-weight capacity during the 1960s which happened despite the removal of JFK.

Here is an interesting dialog between Allen Dulles and Ian Fleming that took place between the JFK assassination and Fleming’s death in 1964. Apparently, Jackie Kennedy and Dulles exchanged James Bond novels before JFK was elected president. Dulles apparently met Fleming at a dinner with the Kennedys as discussed in the article.

https://download1349.mediafire.com/0c6xth5rbo6ggHOi-xtz-gT6F_ycXwSRzm74vZoQ-fn1jWKk2Ri7rC6IkHwgFiz8L7xfMB0SGXP3A2y0ZMwV1cBfQMBiSecO6qGGMOxAQb6rbqTUJh0XWS6uku_Kl72aPGGWPQ-Z6mVk5rDqaCPTLKaBZ-pCFlT3bfBxLiFrzOYIOA/d6n5c2scqep4bbu/Redbookdialogue-DullesFleming.pdf

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

I think the conflict between JFK and the CIA is overblown. JFK was enamored with fictional and real covert action and unconventional warfare. It seems to me that JFK’s major problem with the CIA was operational competence. The CIA’s strong suit was technical intelligence gathering and analysis which JFK appreciated. This led to the CIA proving there was no “missile gap” on which they briefed both JFK and LBJ during the 1960 campaign. Hardly the revelation the MIC would have welcomed. Nor would they have welcomed the USSR exceeding US nuclear throw-weight capacity during the 1960s which happened despite the removal of JFK.

Here is an interesting dialog between Allen Dulles and Ian Fleming that took place between the JFK assassination and Fleming’s death in 1964. Apparently, Jackie Kennedy and Dulles exchanged James Bond novels before JFK was elected president. Dulles apparently met Fleming at a dinner with the Kennedys as discussed in the article.

https://download1349.mediafire.com/0c6xth5rbo6ggHOi-xtz-gT6F_ycXwSRzm74vZoQ-fn1jWKk2Ri7rC6IkHwgFiz8L7xfMB0SGXP3A2y0ZMwV1cBfQMBiSecO6qGGMOxAQb6rbqTUJh0XWS6uku_Kl72aPGGWPQ-Z6mVk5rDqaCPTLKaBZ-pCFlT3bfBxLiFrzOYIOA/d6n5c2scqep4bbu/Redbookdialogue-DullesFleming.pdf

Fun article, thanks for posting. Yes, Dulles in this article, appears to admire JFK. 

One might wonder if Fleming was trying to push one of Dulles' buttons, after all, JFK had fired Dulles. 

A fascinating read from a period when public discourse had not become so coarsened and petty, and speaking derogatorily of those with different viewpoints was pandemic. 

Who truly authored the JFKA? I don't know.

I must be the only participant in the EF-JFKA who does not know, as an incontrovertible fact, the answer to this question.  

[Kevin Balch]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Who truly authored the JFKA? I don't know.

Whoever it was (assuming, as I do, that the Lone Nut theory is incorrect)

1. Saw an existential threat to something very impotant to them. Not something like loss of the oil depletion allowance or government contract. And no, JFK was not about to “end the fed” or “restore honest money”.

2. Could not wait for the results of the 1964 election, implying they had insufficient or no influence within the media to release politically damaging information on JFK.

3. Felt they would get much better treatment from LBJ though that does not necessarily mean it was LBJ.

 

Far more likely to be about Cuba (either pro or anti Castro) than Vietnam. I find it interesting that the US can have a rapprochement with Vietnam and almost with N. Korea but not Cuba. You would think Trump of all people would have tried to set something up to benefit his real estate business. If communism ever falls in Cuba, I expect intense US government interest in the Cuban archives.

Regarding Dulles specifically, I listened in on a recorded phone call between Dulles and LBJ/RFK regarding sending Dulles to Mississippi to act as a representative of the federal government and check the progress in the search for the missing civil rights activists.on the progress of the search. I did not sense RFK had any animosity toward Dulles based on the tone of voice.

Edited April 14 by Kevin Balch

[Ron Bulman]

9 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

I think the conflict between JFK and the CIA is overblown. JFK was enamored with fictional and real covert action and unconventional warfare. It seems to me that JFK’s major problem with the CIA was operational competence.

Yes, on the last part.  No on the first sentence.  JFK was deceived by the CIA over the Bay of Pigs a month into his presidency.  He fired Dulles, Cabbell and Bissell over it, this created animosity among them and their friends, several still employed by the CIA.  Vietnam/"soft on communism" were major factors in JFK's assassination, jmho.

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

Whoever it was (assuming, as I do, that the Lone Nut theory is incorrect)

1. Saw an existential threat to something very impotant to them. Not something like loss of the oil depletion allowance or government contract. And no, JFK was not about to “end the fed” or “restore honest money”.

2. Could not wait for the results of the 1964 election, implying they had insufficient or no influence within the media to release politically damaging information on JFK.

3. Felt they would get much better treatment from LBJ though that does not necessarily mean it was LBJ.

 

Far more likely to be about Cuba (either pro or anti Castro) than Vietnam. I find it interesting that the US can have a rapprochement with Vietnam and almost with N. Korea but not Cuba. You would think Trump of all people would have tried to set something up to benefit his real estate business. If communism ever falls in Cuba, I expect intense US government interest in the Cuban archives.

Regarding Dulles specifically, I listened in on a recorded phone call between Dulles and LBJ/RFK regarding sending Dulles to Mississippi to act as a representative of the federal government and check the progress in the search for the missing civil rights activists.on the progress of the search. I did not sense RFK had any animosity toward Dulles based on the tone of voice.

KB--

I like your way of thinking about the JFKA. 

1. Yes, if a globalist group was powerful enough to sway media and the intel state...would they not prefer to "wait JFK out" rather than assassinate him in broad daylight? Smear him in the media? 

2. OK (for sake of argument) then by deduction, the group perping the JFKA was relatively powerless. They assumed they would not be able to influence US policies going forward. Policy was drifting away from their goals. 

3. That would suggest perhaps CIA-linked Cuban exiles, BoP mercs. Who also felt betrayed by JFKA, and so had the means and motivation.  This would also be a tight group that had served in battle together and trusted one another. 

This does not quite exonerate LBJ. He was facing political ruin, and was saved by the JFKA.

But IMHO, the LBJ-LHO connection is dubious. 

Moreover, the biography build on LHO was an intel-state operation. 

But I am glad to meet someone else who does not know for a hard, incontrovertible fact who perped the JFKA, including by which methods, and how exactly the bullets or missiles struck JFK.  

 

[Ron Bulman]

25 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

But IMHO, the LBJ-LHO connection is dubious.

Huh?  What LBJ-LHO connection?    This whole post seems a big mumbo-jumbo-ish to me.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Huh?  What LBJ-LHO connection?    This whole post seems a big mumbo-jumbo-ish to me.

RB-

Yes, a few non sequiturs here and there. 

1. In my estimation, the LBJ-LHO connection seems empty. (But others have said LBJ knew people who knew people who knew LHO).

I brought up LBJ as a candidate for someone who met some criteria for perping a JFKA on a timeline.

LBJ did not have power to swing national media or globalist policies, especially if he was going to be disgraced by LIFE magazine.  So he had a motive to perp the JFKA sooner, rather than later. 

[Kevin Balch]

If LBJ was knowingly involved or the prime motivator of the JFKA, I doubt he would have withdrawn from the 1968 race after making such a high risk investment in his political future nor would he had speculated as he did about the possibility that the Warren Commission might have been wrong on finding no others involved in the assassination during a September, 1969 interview with Walter Cronkite.

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks for sharing this Doug.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Welcome, Kevin, that was a good interview..

I agree with you it was not the oil depletion allowance or the right wing hard monetarists claims that JFK wanted to buck the Fed ,and the financial establishment.

The theory that was very prevalent here that was propagated a lot by Oliver Stone and Jim di Eugenio is that the MIC, the mighty generals and big industrialists revolted when they found out JFK was going to pull out of Vietnam. I never bought that. Though I can understand Oliver Stone served his country and wanted to make some sense of it.

 

13 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

Regarding Dulles specifically, I listened in on a recorded phone call between Dulles and LBJ/RFK regarding sending Dulles to Mississippi to act as a representative of the federal government and check the progress in the search for the missing civil rights activists.on the progress of the search. I did not sense RFK had any animosity toward Dulles based on the tone of voice.

I agree with your conclusions on this. Though it could hardly be said to be any smoking gun. Maybe about 7 years ago, when the forum IMO was really stagnant and seemed to be moving in lock  step with the Dulles did it declarations of a couple of highly touted authors,  I circulated this phone call in a thread to a stony silent reception.

A couple of years later, when things had loosened up a bit, i posted it again, noting the previous reception  in essence saying "Is there some reason we can't discuss this ? I'd like to hear anybody's reaction " and it was better. But the overwhelming response was that RFK  suspected Dulles of killing his brother just as much as they all did. And was just going undercover and "feeling out" Dulles in the phone call.  I didn't see it that way. i think if RFK had strong suspicions about Dulles, he wasn't the sort to hide it., and despite the well documented hostility between RFK and LBJ, I think they actually were working in tandem  for the good of the country. (oh how could that be!)

 I think  after the assassination  RFK's,  "Your guys did it " to Mc Cone was just a shot in the dark and he was totally overwhelmed with the question of who among the many possibilities could have killed his brother for probably quite a while.

 

 

Dulles to RFK :  "What is the timing on this?, I'm on this other commission you know, and we're trying to finish up our work".

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/secret-white-house-tapes/conversation-allen-dulles-and-robert-kennedy-june-23-1964

[Kevin Balch]

23 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I agree with you it was not the oil depletion allowance or the right wing hard monetarists claims that JFK wanted to buck the Fed ,and the financial establishment.

How many of the reasons that supposedly motivated the right-wing billionaires/MIC  in “Executive Action”, “JFK” and “Nixon” to sponsor the JFKA actually came to pass despite or arguably because the assassination was successful?