Matt Cloud Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Just now, Matt Cloud said: Or see his other bestest friend James Q. Wilson who vouched for him to get the Harvard professorship in 1965 when and where he began tutoring Edward Jay Epstein. Moynihan did. His office was like bureau of Commentary Magazine. What do you think "giving them hell at the U.N. was all about?" How bout Claire Sterling and Michael Ledeen? Ever read The Spike, Arnaud's 1980 "novel" about Pat Moynihan taking over the US government? "Zionism is not racism." 1975. How bout the destruction of the Paul Warnke nomination? How bout creating FISA? Didn't W F Buckley urge Moynihan as Reagan VP over Bush? How bout Intelligence Identities Protection Act? When Cheney and Rumsfeld are mobilizing in December 2000, who do they call? Pat Moynihan. Moynihan created the centrist DLC, after recommending to ADA in 1967 (attended by Elliot Abrams) that they fuse with the GOP. Buckley like the idea. He endorsed it. It happened. You just haven' been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cloud Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 2 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said: Moynihan created the centrist DLC, after recommending to ADA in 1967 (attended by Elliot Abrams) that they fuse with the GOP. Buckley like the idea. He endorsed it. It happened. You just haven' been paying attention. Moynihan more than anyone destroyed the McGovern wing of the D Party. He was Deep Throat. He was Woodward's no. 1 guy, of course, from All The President's Men through Veil and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cloud Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 22 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Me, I only tout ONE fact: JFK was murdered by a military-style ambush involving multiple shooters. Everything else is speculation You mean, you don't believe Oswald was set up to be a patsy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 39 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: You mean, you don't believe Oswald was set up to be a patsy? Fine and dandy, but I don't do the Oswald Assassination. I leave the LHOA to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 35 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: You mean, you don't believe Oswald was set up to be a patsy? Fine and dandy... Okay, so you believe that Oswald was set up to be a (or the) patsy for the assassination. How do you suppose the assassination plotters got Oswald into the building he needed to be in to take the blame for the assassination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Commission_on_Government_Secrecy I saw him debate Helms on TV, Moynihan wanted to completely eliminate the CIA. He was also a harsh critic of Reagan's Central America policies. The Neocon crowd you are talking about, like Abrams, came into Washington under Henry Jackson. Al From and Will Marshall created the DLC. Most people called Moynihan a neoliberal. Edited May 27 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Now explain to us how you figure him into Watergate and Woodstein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Okay, so you believe that Oswald was set up to be a (or the) patsy for the assassination. How do you suppose the assassination plotters got Oswald into the building he needed to be in to take the blame for the assassination? I prefer to leave that speculation to those better informed on the matter. As to the current DiEugenio-Cloud debate over Moynihan, on a lark I googled "Averell Harriman Daniel Patrick Moynihan" and found that Moynihan worked for Harriman for 3 years when Ave was Governor of New York. Count Prescott Bush, Richard Bisssell, and Pat Moynihan as among Harriman's proteges. Normally I'd recoil from discussions with someone whose solipsistic terminology ("the Ramparts crowd," "the Left wanted Vietnam") was matched with a condescending attitude -- but I make an exception in Matt's case. I've long wondered if Harriman had a hand in Watergate. Ave spent 7 months in 1968 negotiating a peace deal with North Vietnam only to have Nixon scuttle it right before the election. Ave was angling for the Sec of State slot in a Humphrey Administration. Was Watergate Ave's revenge? Moynihan as Deep Throat? Deserves a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) Here is another one, Moynihan vs Reagan. https://blogs.bl.uk/americas/2015/09/reagans-critic-daniel-patrick-moynihan.html I am still waiting for how he figures into Woodstein and Watergate. Edited May 27 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said: Moynihan as Deep Throat? Deserves a look. I was surprised when Matt said Moynihan was Deep Throat. And especially when you said he might be. We all know that Mark Felt admitted to being Deep Throat decades ago. And not only that, but that Woodward and Bernstein both confirmed the identification. I don't know how you guys get around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 10 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: I am still waiting for how he figures into Woodstein and Watergate Oh, I get it now. Woodstein = Woodward + Bernstein I'd never heard that before. I've never been a student of Watergate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Sandy, there is a way to get around it. There is no doubt the Felt was one of Woodward's sources. But, for example, in the book In Nixon's Web -which I am one of the very few who have read--he proves that Deep Throat was a composite. And he does this from Woodward's own notes at the University of Texas Library. One of the prime suspects for the composite was Robert Bennett. Which is what I believe. Another one was Haig. But I have never seen anyone infer it was Moynihan. In fact, in the two most famous revisionist versions, Secret Agenda and Silent Coup, his name is in neither index. So I await Matt's David Copperfield act on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: I was surprised when Matt said Moynihan was Deep Throat. And especially when you said he might be. We all know that Mark Felt admitted to being Deep Throat decades ago. And not only that, but that Woodward and Bernstein both confirmed the identification. I don't know how you guys get around that. You guys? I said I have an open mind given Moynihan's connection to Harriman and Harriman's motivation for revenge. That's it. I'm not endorsing a theory unrevealed. The fact is Deep Throat wasn't the only source for the Washington Post or New York Times reporters who covered the story. James McCord supplied lots of info. Maybe Moynihan as well -- let's see what Matt comes up with. Edited May 27 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cloud Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Sandy, there is a way to get around it. There is no doubt the Felt was one of Woodward's sources. But, for example, in the book In Nixon's Web -which I am one of the very few who have read--he proves that Deep Throat was a composite. And he does this from Woodward's own notes at the University of Texas Library. One of the prime suspects for the composite was Robert Bennett. Which is what I believe. Another one was Haig. But I have never seen anyone infer it was Moynihan. In fact, in the two most famous revisionist versions, Secret Agenda and Silent Coup, his name is in neither index. So I await Matt's David Copperfield act on this. That's why it's a secret, what Bernstein called the greatest secret ever. I more or less walked through the analysis over a year ago over in the comments section at Roger Stone's site -- he doesn't like Moynihan being Deep Throat either -- but he has reasons of his own to insist it be Haig. The Plumbers -- whom Moynihan brought on to the Nixon WH staff -- were actually working for the neo-cons. If Stone admitted that his fraud would be exposed. Anyway you can try and make your way through the comments over there: https://rogerstone.substack.com/p/nixon-threatened-to-reveal-the-cias/comments#comment-47932941 Alternatively, or additionally, you can go to my twitter feed @realmattcloud and poke through there. #MoynihanWasDeepThroat. There's over ten thousand tweets by me making the case. Not going to go through it all here, again. A key starting point would be however, Deep Throat according to Woodard knew of the taping system. his was told to Woodward circa first week November 1973. Moynihan was ambassador to India by then but when was back in town, in DC, during the needed time period. The taping system went in when Moynihan left the Nixon WH in Feb 71. Butterfield was Moynihan's nightly drinking buddy. Start there. By the way, Moynihan carried Harriman's briefcase in the 1950, yes. I carried Moynihan's in the 1990s. I was his last personal aide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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