Are the JFKA and the RFK1A Linked?

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

KB-

1. It seems unlikely that Israel would want to assassinate not one but both strong, high-profile proponents of Israel.

2. It seems doubly unlikely that Israel had ties into the LAPD to enable and effect a cover-up. 

The whole point of my series on the RFK1A is that we see again a cover-up of a high-profile important assassination, five years later, and in a different jurisdiction.

A lot of the same stuff too---bullet-slugs that had ID marks, marks that disappear, but nevertheless are accepted as evidence. 

IMHO, a Russia, a Cuban government, the Mob, and a tiny country like Israel does not have the resources and staying power to pull that off. 

The US intel community has that kind of resources. 

 

The Mossad has significant expertise and experience in assassinations-- perhaps the best in the world.

Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations: Bergman, Ronen: 9781400069712: Amazon.com: Books

The Talmud says: “If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first.” This instinct to take every measure, even the most aggressive, to defend the Jewish people is hardwired into Israel’s DNA. From the very beginning of its statehood in 1948, protecting the nation from harm has been the responsibility of its intelligence community and armed services, and there is one weapon in their vast arsenal that they have relied upon to thwart the most serious threats: Targeted assassinations have been used countless times, on enemies large and small, sometimes in response to attacks against the Israeli people and sometimes preemptively.

In this page-turning, eye-opening book, journalist and military analyst Ronen Bergman—praised by David Remnick as “arguably [Israel’s] best investigative reporter”—offers a riveting inside account of the targeted killing programs: their successes, their failures, and the moral and political price exacted on the men and women who approved and carried out the missions.

Bergman has gained the exceedingly rare cooperation of many current and former members of the Israeli government, including Prime Ministers Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak, Ariel Sharon, and Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as high-level figures in the country’s military and intelligence services: the IDF (Israel Defense Forces), the Mossad (the world’s most feared intelligence agency), Caesarea (a “Mossad within the Mossad” that carries out attacks on the highest-value targets), and the Shin Bet (an internal security service that implemented the largest targeted assassination campaign ever, in order to stop what had once appeared to be unstoppable: suicide terrorism).
 

 

[Matthew Koch]

Quoting the Talmud and saying things like this is hard wired into someone's DNA is on this subject rises to the level of Anti Semitism and sounds like Nazi eugenic rhetoric .

 

And, Frankly goes against the decorum of the forum and earlier William Niederhut made an analogy of me murdering RFK Jr with Ben and it shouldn't be happening on the forum. IMHO 

[W. Niederhut]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Quoting the Talmud and saying things like this is hard wired into someone's DNA is on this subject rises to the level of Anti Semitism and sounds like Nazi eugenic rhetoric .

 

And, Frankly goes against the decorum of the forum and earlier William Niederhut made an analogy of me murdering RFK Jr with Ben and it shouldn't be happening on the forum. IMHO 

Mathew,

Your comments here are completely out-of-bounds, and inappropriate.  

That comment (above) about the Talmud was published in the official Amazon description of Ronen Bergman's highly respected history of the Mossad.  Bergman, and his Israeli government sources, are Jewish.

How, then, is his description of his book Anti-Semitic?  Explain your logic.

Is it Anti-Semitic for a Jewish writer to quote the Talmud?

Secondly, you completely misinterpreted my question for you and Ben about Sirhan firing blanks-- as Lisa Pease described.

I asked if you and Ben would have loaded Sirhan's gun with real bullets, if you had organized the RFK assassination op.

[Benjamin Cole]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:50 PM, Pete Mellor said:

Ben, I was referring to John Lennon's killer Mark Chapman.

Anyway, both John Hinckley & Mark Chapman had one thing in common, they both had copies of Salinger's 'Catcher in the Rye'.

My post above was just to point out links to MK/Ultra in Sirhan & Chapman.

Well, now I'm out of here before I get beat on by Michael Griffiths. 🤣

PM--My apols! 

I know nothing about Mark Chapman, but as they say...keep an open mind. 

[Nick Bartetzko]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:22 PM, W. Niederhut said:

So, Mathew, here's a tactical question that I pondered while studying A Lie Too Big to Fail.

If you (and Ben Cole) had staged the RFK assassination op at the Ambassador Hotel-- involving Sirhan as the hypnotically-programmed "Manchurian" decoy/patsy and Thane Eugene Cesar (and, possibly, others) as the assassin(s) -- would you have given Sirhan a gun loaded with real bullets?

Recall that Cesar was standing right next to (and lightly behind) RFK in the pantry.

Would you and Ben have risked having your decoy/patsy shoot your designated assassin(s) at close range?

I've not read the Lisa Pease book and likely won't. But I've read some of her articles and the research seems excellent. But if Sirhan fired blanks, where did the other shots come from?? 

If the goal was to eliminate RFK at all costs, then people like Sirhan and Cesar are readily expendable. 

On another note, if a specialist had unlimited and unfettered access to Sirhan, would it be possible to retrieve the programmed instructions that have been locked away for 50+ years? 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

But if Sirhan fired blanks, where did the other shots come from?? 

From another guy on the table behind him firing over his shoulder to the right into the crowd.  So as not to wound Cesar but several other people.  The book is worth the price and time.

I think he is described by some witnesses, clothing, actions in more detail.  He jumped down immediately and ran out the door amid the confusion.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

From another guy on the table behind him firing over his shoulder to the right into the crowd.  So as not to wound Cesar but several other people.  The book is worth the price and time.

I think he is described by some witnesses, clothing, actions in more detail.  He jumped down immediately and ran out the door amid the confusion.

RB-

Thanks for your comments.

Obviously, at this late date it difficult to prove anything. 

IMHO: But to have Sirhan armed with a pistol firing blanks seems like a huge risk. 

1. If bystanders had seized Sirhan only moments earlier, there would have been blanks left in the pistol. That would raise questions, to put it mildly. Maybe the LAPD would cover that up too, but it seems like a gigantic risk. 

2. The wild pattern of shots in the pantry seems to validate the idea that Sirhan was spraying shots around, as bystanders wrestled for control of the weapon. 

3. There are no shots that entered RFK1 from the front of his body. Only from the rear. So, the purported second gunman fired randomly at the crowd and ceiling? 

4. It is true, there was a fleeting risk to Cesar during the RFK1A event. Cesar might be in the line of fire from Sirhan, although that is hardly certain. But Cesar had two advantages. He knew what was coming, and could use RFK1 as a shield, which he did. 

My guess is the RFK1A plan was that Cesar was to return fire at Sirhan, possibly killing Sirhan and RFK1 (the latter by "mistake"). But when the smoke cleared, Cesar realized he was scot-free. 

Cesar's work may have been hazardous. I knew a guy that drove trucks in wartime Iraq for $170k a year. He figured it was 1 in 10 that he would not come home. 

Guys go down into coal mines for a lot less. 

[Robert Burrows]

8 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Quoting the Talmud and saying things like this is hard wired into someone's DNA is on this subject rises to the level of Anti Semitism and sounds like Nazi eugenic rhetoric .

 

And, Frankly goes against the decorum of the forum and earlier William Niederhut made an analogy of me murdering RFK Jr with Ben and it shouldn't be happening on the forum. IMHO 

Nonsense. 

[Matthew Koch]

2 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

Nonsense. 

If.. it's not anti Semitic Robert than please elaborate? 

Robert please by all means explain which talmud it is and why it isn't Racist to say murdering people is part of their DNA 

 

I'm really interestering in this making sense so please go ahead..  

Edited June 5 by Matthew Koch

[Nick Bartetzko]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

From another guy on the table behind him firing over his shoulder to the right into the crowd.  So as not to wound Cesar but several other people.  The book is worth the price and time.

I think he is described by some witnesses, clothing, actions in more detail.  He jumped down immediately and ran out the door amid the confusion.

Thanks, Ron. I may reconsider and buy it.

[Robert Burrows]

6 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

If.. it's not anti Semitic Robert than please elaborate? 

Robert please by all means explain which talmud it is and why it isn't Racist to say murdering people is part of their DNA 

 

I'm really interestering in this making sense so please go ahead..  

I think that William's response covers it.

[Benjamin Cole]

22 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Quoting the Talmud and saying things like this is hard wired into someone's DNA is on this subject rises to the level of Anti Semitism and sounds like Nazi eugenic rhetoric .

 

And, Frankly goes against the decorum of the forum and earlier William Niederhut made an analogy of me murdering RFK Jr with Ben and it shouldn't be happening on the forum. IMHO 

MK-

There is an "ignore" feature you can use, so you do not have to see the offensive  comments of some participants. 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

20 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

MK-

There is an "ignore" feature you can use, so you do not have to see the offensive  comments of some participants. 

 

 

Geez... talk about a bizarre projection.

Mathew Koch just made two very serious, false claims about an Education Forum member.

Then Benjamin Cole advised Mathew to put "offensive comments" on ignore?

Perhaps Ben was advising Mathew to put himself on ignore... 🙄

[Matthew Koch]

43 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

MK-

There is an "ignore" feature you can use, so you do not have to see the offensive  comments of some participants. 

BC- 

Thanks for the tip I mostly wanted to make sure that if I pointed out that someone was being antisemitic that the Mods who currently are having a discussion about their Moderation behavior wouldn't do anything unless it was charged against a Right Aligned poster.. 

I don't have problems with valid criticisms of Israel but saying things like a race or a group of people act a certain way because it's in their DNA offends me as a Catholic because there is no opportunity for forgivenes.

I don't know if you have ever looked into the MLK assassination but I believe that it is more connected to the JFKA than the RFKA that being said Mickey Cohen is big player in RFK assassination and one of his GF's was Candy Barr who worked for Jack Ruby. Cohen's lawyer was Melvin Belli who represented Ruby in that cockamamie auto response defense that got him the chair. Also James Braden is at both murders... 

[W. Niederhut]

23 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Mathew,

Your comments here are completely out-of-bounds, and inappropriate.  

That comment (above) about the Talmud was published in the official Amazon description of Ronen Bergman's highly respected history of the Mossad.  Bergman, and his Israeli government sources, are Jewish.

How, then, is his description of his book Anti-Semitic?  Explain your logic.

Is it Anti-Semitic for a Jewish writer to quote the Talmud?

Secondly, you completely misinterpreted my question for you and Ben about Sirhan firing blanks-- as Lisa Pease described.

I asked if you and Ben would have loaded Sirhan's gun with real bullets, if you had organized the RFK assassination op.

Re-posting this debunking of Mathew Koch's false claim that my post about Ronen Bergman's book was "Anti-Semitic."

Falsely accusing someone of Anti-Semitism is a serious form of libel.

Surely, this is a violation of Education Forum policies, isn't it?

The passage I posted (above) about the Talmud was copied straight from the official Amazon description of Bergman's book.

Edited June 6 by W. Niederhut