JFKA Horshoe Theory: 'The Radical Left' and 'Extreme Right' come together to blame Israel, Zionism and Zionists for JFK's Assassination

[James DiEugenio]

This is why I have this guy on ignore. But I thought he was going to reply intelligently to my post.  What a mistake.

Only a completely biased monomaniac could possible say that Morley thinks the Mossad killed JFK. 😘

That is worth a suspension.

 

 

[Matthew Koch]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

So this is just BS. Its one reason I have Griffith  (and whatever his name is, Koch or Cucino or whatever) on ignore, but when people quote him I have to read this rubbish. It surprises me that Ben actually falls in line with this junk.

This is either willful ignorance or narcissism because Destiny Betrayed has Dimona in it, why? 

You didn't connect it properly to the US nuclear issue and people like Cord Myer and Boris Posh for it to be the CIA killed jfk because he wasn't giving Israel nukes, you left it open ended for anti-Semites and so that those anti semites who are the people I listed in the top of the thread don't drag Oliver further, because an Israeli Arms dealer Financed his JFK movie. [Emphasis added]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Kennedy's policies in the Middle East were a stark revision of Foster Dulles, plain and simple. And to not face up to that is simply a matter of ignorance or bias.  His design of reaching out to Nasser--by far the most influential and charismatic of all Arab leaders--and seeking the Joseph Johnson Plan for Palestinian repatriation, these were original executive decisions.  And he vigorously pursued them both. These were both dropped by Johnson. And it was LBJ who began the big military programs to Israel which Nasser protested and eventually caused the Egyptian president to break relations with the USA

They are explained by this 101 JFK Administration/Soviet History point which is: Khrushchev's secret speech (Wars of Liberation) which the CIA got ahold of was what influenced Kennedy's polices in the third world. 

It seems that lefties like you and Oliver don't understand that the American Revolution and Irish Revolution were similar but the African and Asian Struggles weren't and this is a big error/mistake in JFK's foreign policy. Also because those struggles were class struggles with imperialism and didn't have to do with things that the American and Irish Revolutions did which was self govern-ship. Thus that's why people like Lumumba became enemies to the OSS types in the establishment because it set up a system where those countries were loyal only if they got funds. This is a big reason why JFK Alliance for Progress failed and why almost all of his programs were "Destine" to fail. Because they only worked because of the idealism and that people were motivated by him and his rhetoric to "Try Harder" as was challenged in his speeches. But without a Kennedy like or maybe RFK they were not going to work after he wasn't there. So that's a big reason why the Oligarch Establishment and Big Fianace had big problems with his polices because they were just going to get taken advantage of by the Soviets.

We didn't know that at the time but seeing how Clown world has taken place due to Leftism we now see that without something like the Catholic Church (Which got infiltrated by Soviets in the Vatican II Catacombs pact) all that needed was for that and Western Academia to get taken over and the Communist Monster has come back to life and is now being aided by Global Corporations and Jeffery Sachs and the WEF. So while I respect that JFK did what he did the fact that things like our institutions got taken over by people who watched too many Oliver Stone and Spike Lee Movies and now want to make America into a BRICS nation. Shows that they wouldn't have lasted much past his presidency like the Peace Corps. 

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Johnson's administration did not just break with Kennedy on these issues, including also Dimona, but LBJ approved the sneak attack on Egypt which started the 1967 war. I can safely say that none of this would have occurred under Kennedy. But this tilting toward Israel continued under almost all future administrations. Which culminated in the absolute mess we have there now.  And the Neocons, going all the way back to Henry Jackson and the rightwing nuts on his staff--Perle, Abrams, Wolfowitz, Gaffney and Kirkpatrick--were a part of this.  The very idea that Kennedy would have been in league with  this kind of neocon nuttiness is both a bit mad and ludicrous.

As I said, Kennedy was the last president who was trying to talk and negotiate with the last great Arab leader, and who was really trying to find a solution to the refugees of the Nakba. 

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 Which is saying something considering what is going on there now: the destruction of Gaza and 34,000 dead civilians. This is why the right has to smear his legacy and disfigure who he was.

Rabin was the last great hope for Israel.  And John F. Kennedy Jr knew it.  See his article on the Rabin murder which he wrote himself in George.

How would JFK have stopped them Jim?

JFK would have been a lame duck president at that point and I really don't  believe that the Israelis would have listened to him. And as we see it's not that clear cut because RFK big time supported the Israelis because they were like Kennedy's and had guts.

RFK says that the only reason the Arabs came back was because the land was developed, before that they went to surrounding countries instead of taking a settlement because they were betting the house on the Arabs destroying Israel.  So I don't think JFK would be sympathetic to that in the same way he was sympathetic towards the Arabs because of his trip to Palestine for his Father who was working for the British Government who had won the Land in WWII. RFK wanted to send Israel more Fighter planes remember?  

The other thing that you and people like Aaron Good can't seem to understand about Neo Conservatives is that after Angleton got fired the Israeli Account started running the foreign policy of America becuase there wasn't someone to rein them in. This is what Fletcher Prouty and Liberty Lobby were pointing out and It's the point that people like me make about 911 and PNAC.. it's justification to protect Israel under the clean break strategy document. 

The last point James makes shows how out of touch he is on Zionism and Israel because about half of the right is with Palestine especially the right like Nick Fuentes, Ryan Dawson, Lucas Gage, Fresh n Fit, Andrew Tate and those guys also are spending the JFK was killed by Israel theory which is validated by Destiny Betrayed. SO nice try with your left right cliches because I am part of the conservative right that is religious and doesn't believe you can be both religious and pro hitler.. But Palestinians do and they DID alley with Hitler in WWII through the Muslim brotherhood that your boy Nassar basically ran which allied with Hitler which is why there were Nazi hiding out and working for Nassar. 

James you and Oliver do understand that there wouldn't be 30K+ deaths if the attack on the kibbutz hadn't taken place. I watched the videos from the go pros on 4/Chan and Telegram and I lost all sympathy for the Palestinians listening to people hyped up on drugs saying "Allah Akbar" over and over while killing people like it was the opening scene from 2001 space odssey. I have an old We Are Change 911 activist friend that married an Israeli and moved to Israel and I had to call him to make sure he was still alive. And you know what he and I both think: That it's unconciebable for that attack to have happened the way it did with no response for 5hrs. No Iron dome for that same time and the Dance Festival was moved to the spot of the invasion less than a day before the attack. I also think that the Hannibal doctrine was employed and I think probably a 1/3 of the people killed on Oct 7 was from Israeli military. But guess what that still doesn't change the fact that they did attack Israel and kill people and they were so stupid to think that kidnapping people was a good strategy considering what happened the last time that happened in '12. You bring up RFK Jr which is rather ironic because people like Lisa Pease have cut ties with him over his Israel stance and he's right about the pampered aid that they wasted building military tunnels. Then they ran into the civilian population and tried to use cite Geneva convention when they're not a military. So military rules of war don't apply, ran into the civilian population for shields and continued to fight and put out go pro cam videos and basically are responsible for 1/2 of the blame. Too bad Joe Biden who you and Oliver voted for won't do anything. The attack probably wouldn't have happened under Trump. But even if it did Trump has shown through things that he has said that he feels betrayed by Israel in the Solemoni affair and I don't think he would have given them everything like Joe Biden,  he would have made them "Wrap it up" 

 

Edited June 10 by Matthew Koch

[Matthew Koch]

27 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Only a completely biased monomaniac could possible say that Morley thinks the Mossad killed JFK. 😘

That is worth a suspension.

Details matter and what is being implied then Jim. 

Here is Jefferson Morley saying basically the opposite to Michael Collins Piper so that the audience can see the difference in Morley's rhetoric https://www.c-span.org/video/?97152-1/the-spotlight

You won't say because you are wrong here and just like in the Jeffery Sachs thread you can't say because you will take a beating with the facts and citation. 

So instead you play this little game.. 

Edited June 10 by Matthew Koch
Morley comment and link added

[James DiEugenio]

See, when you write something that is purposefully deceptive, that is against the rules and below the level of this forum.

Its something that belongs on Duncan McRae's dumpster fire site, not here.

 

[Matthew Koch]

22 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

See, when you write something that is purposefully deceptive, that is against the rules and below the level of this forum.

Its something that belongs on Duncan McRae's dumpster fire site, not here.

 

What is purposefully deceptive? 

Please be specific because this isn't being done in bad faith

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/4/2024 at 9:26 PM, Matthew Koch said:

The reason I put my name in Spanish on Twitter is so that people don't do what Sandy and Mark did when I joined the forum when they accused me of being related to the Koch Brothers "Because I support Trump" mea

 

What? There is absolutely no way I would question someone just because their name is somehow identified with a political group or politician.

And I'm pretty sure the same goes for Mark as well. Fact is, I never knew where Mark fit on the political spectrum while I was working with him. Same with Ron and and Kathy.

 

[Matthew Koch]

13 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

What? There is absolutely no way I would question someone just because their name is somehow identified with a political group or politician.

And I'm pretty sure the same goes for Mark as well. Fact is, I never knew where Mark fit on the political spectrum while I was working with him. Same with Ron and and Kathy.

 

Go look at the post from Oct 1 2022 in the 56yr thread I have a screen shot of Mark and you saying: 

Sandy: "The difference between Matthew and Ben is all in Trump, where as Ben is what he wants trump to be. Matthew believes all MAGAverse alternative fact, where as Ben only believes only the one he can fit with his true Trump.

Mark: I think Matthew's last name show's where his loyalties lie. Whether he's related to them or not. 

Prove me wrong, if that's not true.. I don't feel like searching for it. I recently when Mark suspended my for saying that Niederhuts comment quoting the Talmud and saying it's in Jews DNA for them to do assassinations and kill people. 

I was recently suspended because I complained that that was anti Semitic. Rather Ironic given that does meet the definition and I'm not even a fan just that that crosses the line of decorum imho but I guess not and I guess  pointing that out when you have pro conservative and pro trump opinions will get you suspended by @Mark Knight

I sent him a private email asking him why I suspended and that I wasn't willing to erase my comment. He didn't understand what I was talking about and only pointed out that I was not longer suspended.

SO, I don't why, I might think the way I do about certain things around here. [Sarcasm Added]

[John Cotter]

There seems to be an element of mobbing raising its ugly head again, a coordinated array of disparate negative comments about one individual. It's unseemly and unethical. Please deal with the substantive issues and desist from personal attacks.

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Matthew Koch said:

What is purposefully deceptive? 

Please be specific because this isn't being done in bad faith

This is very similar to what I feel is going on if you take the time to watch some of this.

I am trying to cut through and have a debate and you are doing something similar to what Dave Smith is doing when challenged on his thesis. This isn't personal but I wouldn't recommend continuing your strategy.. 

 

[James DiEugenio]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

There seems to be an element of mobbing raising its ugly head again, a coordinated array of disparate negative comments about one individual. It's unseemly and unethical. Please deal with the substantive issues and desist from personal attacks.

I hope you are not talking about me John.

I mean it was Mr K who was using profanity with Ron.

And for Mr. K to somehow imply that Jeff Morley says that the Mossad was behind the JFK murder, that is well, what can I say? 🤐

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Matthew Koch said:

Go look at the post from Oct 1 2022 in the 56yr thread I have a screen shot of Mark and you saying: 

Sandy: "The difference between Matthew and Ben is all in Trump, where as Ben is what he wants trump to be. Matthew believes all MAGAverse alternative fact, where as Ben only believes only the one he can fit with his true Trump.

Mark: I think Matthew's last name show's where his loyalties lie. Whether he's related to them or not. 

Prove me wrong, if that's not true.. I don't feel like searching for it. I recently when Mark suspended my for saying that Niederhuts comment quoting the Talmud and saying it's in Jews DNA for them to do assassinations and kill people. 

I was recently suspended because I complained that that was anti Semitic. Rather Ironic given that does meet the definition and I'm not even a fan just that that crosses the line of decorum imho but I guess not and I guess  pointing that out when you have pro conservative and pro trump opinions will get you suspended by @Mark Knight

I sent him a private email asking him why I suspended and that I wasn't willing to erase my comment. He didn't understand what I was talking about and only pointed out that I was not longer suspended.

SO, I don't why, I might think the way I do about certain things around here. [Sarcasm Added]

Another series of false, libelous comments here by Mathew Koch, mods.

The comment about the Talmud and DNA -- which Mathew Koch has falsely attributed to me-- was a direct quote of the official Amazon paragraph describing Ronen Bergman's book about Mossad assassinations, Rise First and Kill.

Bergman is a respected Mossad historian who happens to be Jewish.

Mathew Koch continues to post libelous comments on the forum, claiming that I am "Anti-Semitic" for posting a reference to a book about the history of the Mossad.

This is nonsense, and should be a violation of Education Forum norms.

It isn't Anti-Semitic to discuss the history of Israel, and U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.

[Matthew Koch]

11 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I hope you are not talking about me John.

I mean it was Mr K who was using profanity with Ron.

And for Mr. K to somehow imply that Jeff Morley says that the Mossad was behind the JFK murder, that is well, what can I say? 🤐

Can someone explain to Jim that Mr. K's comment that he is referencing is from almost a year ago and is off topic to derail it and be a white knight for you is what I think that's about because Ron lost being a Mod and then went into Ben's RFK2 thread and disparaged him and my thread and did the same. So, it appears that you don't know what you are talking about while avoiding the question. 

I do find it investing how you latched on to Mr. Morley yet left out Dr. Aaron Good that has a twitter comment about the Israeli account which is VERY similar to yours. What is the Israeli account Jim? Mossad? Like Duh, I literally can't believe you are attempting to play games like this. I feel like YOU are being dishonest, and YOU are making disparaging remarks toward Me that is why this is happening. If you want I will start quoting from Destiny Betrayed Vol. 1 in threads because before you got on the conference circuit of of citing the Liberal COPA and JFK Lancer People you put out a book that has alot wrong with it that you never cleared up.. So, I'll bring that up with alll the flaws in destiny betrayed that I haven't because I used to be a "Fan Boy" as Cliff says until your Reclaiming Parkland take that D-Day didn't matter and Russia actually won the war.

Your thesis does not align with JFK and you focus on things you like and when there's stuff that shows JFK to be an Anti Communist you pretend that doesn't exist or focus on Assassination Plot info or say that it's just Rhetoric to please the conservatives. There is too much at this point to just say the CIA killed JFK because of his liberal policies like you Good and Sachs infer. 

I'm sorry you didn't look further into Ryan Dawson but you did work with him and Aaron Good has pretty close to the same thesis but says Zionists instead of Jews like Ryan Dawson does. Both people you work with but nice try with the Jefferson Morley Limited hang out.. looks like you learned something from CIA ; )

 

[Benjamin Cole]

To All-

I have been slandered on EF-JFKA more times than I can shake a stick at. 

But I say let bygones be bygones, and bring in a new moderation team (with no criticism of the old team) and let us all vow to avoid petty personal and partisan animosities going forward. 

Jim D and I sometimes disagree on specifics of the RFK1A and the JFKA, or the Kennedy Legacy. We may presently disagree as to the true nature of Sirhan Sirhan.

But Jim D does not disparage me, nor I him. In fact, I regard his scholarship on JFKA and the Kennedy Legacy highly.  

Is such collegial conversation too much to ask?  

Edited June 11 by Benjamin Cole

[W. Niederhut]

6 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

To All-

I have been slandered on EF-JFKA more times than I can shake a stick at. 

But I say let bygones be bygones, and bring in a new moderation team (with no criticism of the old team) and let us all vow to avoid petty personal and partisan animosities going forward. 

Jim D and I sometimes disagree on specifics of the RFK1A and the JFKA, or the Kennedy Legacy. We may presently disagree as to the true nature of Sirhan Sirhan.

But Jim D does not disparage me, nor I him. In fact, I regard his scholarship on JFKA and the Kennedy Legacy highly.  

Is such collegial conversation too much to ask?  

Good grief... Tell us what "slander" you have ever experienced here, Ben.

Are you referring to people criticizing your persistent, redundant denials of Donald Trump's January 6th mob attack on Congress?  Your repeated insistence that J6 was merely a "scrum?"

Your later, redundant claims that J6 was a Deep State "Patriot Purge" to make Trump look bad?

There's a big difference between Mathew Koch's libel-- misquoting and making false, defamatory statements about Education Forum members-- and accurate, critical comments about the content of your erroneous posts.

Do you understand the difference?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Matthew Koch said:

Sandy: "The difference between Matthew and Ben is all in Trump, where as Ben is what he wants trump to be. Matthew believes all MAGAverse alternative fact, where as Ben only believes only the one he can fit with his true Trump.

Mark: I think Matthew's last name show's where his loyalties lie. Whether he's related to them or not. 

 

Well, it appears you might be right about Mark Knight using your last name against you. I can't say for sure because it looks like you're just going from memory.

But I certainly didn't did use your last name. That's just not something I do.

But I do recall making an observation like what you describe, comparing your politics to Ben Cole's. The reason being that, on the surface his and yours seem very much the same with Trump/MAGA like qualities. I said something like, Matthew is MAGA but Ben only wants to be. He can't because he doesn't like Trump.

What I said was meant to be in jest.