Sirhan's Upcoming Parole Hearing

[James DiEugenio]

This one is in mid August.

K and K shows how you can write, which according to Sirhan's lawyer, does make a difference.

So take a few minutes, and try and do something which will at least attract attention to this case. Oswald and Ray are gone, Sirhan is not.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/robert-f-kennedy-articles/the-sirhan-parole-hearing

[Pete Mellor]

Thank you James.  I take it any communications to the Parole Hearings board, as in previous years appeals, should omit references to any evidence of conspiracies in the case.

[Benjamin Cole]

TBH, I have mixed feelings about this one. 

To be sure, I suspect Cesar shot RFK1. 

That does not exonerate Sirhan. It may be he shot at RFK1 to the best of his ability. 

To exonerate Sirhan, one must strongly suspect he was not responsible for his actions.

But Sirhan told told David Frost in 1989, recorded and filmed, that he shot RFK1 due to the Senator's support for Israel. That was consistent with what Sirhan had written in his notebook.

Others say Sirhan was programmed. This gets into a very speculative area. 

I wonder if Sirhan was manipulated, more than programmed. Others determined Sirhan would agree to shoot the Senator and prepped him to do it. But Sirhan wanted to shoot RFK1. 

As stated, for me the RFK1A, the second shooter, and the cover-up that followed, is an important clue to the truth behind the JFKA. 

Who could do a snuff job on the RFK1A investigation? That answer seems to again point back to the US intel state. 

I will grant that Sirhan probably does not know of the plot that enveloped him. He likely thought he was acting alone. 

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by Benjamin Cole

[James DiEugenio]

13 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Thank you James.  I take it any communications to the Parole Hearings board, as in previous years appeals, should omit references to any evidence of conspiracies in the case.

Yes Peter do not include that, accent the points we listed about his age, and his youth at the time and being a model prisoner.

Edited June 6 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

The actual jail term served before a parole on this charge was pointed out by Shane O'Sullivan.

The average was about 16 years.

Sirhan has now served over three times that.

So there is no legal reason for him to be there that long.

[Roger Odisio]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

TBH, I have mixed feelings about this one. 

To be sure, I suspect Cesar shot RFK1. 

That does not exonerate Sirhan. It may be he shot at RFK1 to the best of his ability. 

To exonerate Sirhan, one must strongly suspect he was not responsible for his actions.

But Sirhan told told David Frost in 1989, recorded and filmed, that he shot RFK1 due to the Senator's support for Israel. That was consistent with what Sirhan had written in his notebook.

Others say Sirhan was programmed. This gets into a very speculative area. 

I wonder if Sirhan was manipulated, more than programmed. Others determined Sirhan would agree to shoot the Senator and prepped him to do it. But Sirhan wanted to shoot RFK1. 

As stated, for me the RFK1A, the second shooter, and the cover-up that followed, is an important clue to the truth behind the JFKA. 

Who could do a snuff job on the RFK1A investigation? That answer seems to again point back to the US intel state. 

I will grant that Sirhan probably does not know of the plot that enveloped him. He likely thought he was acting alone. 

 

 

 

But the autopsy and the LAPD study you just referenced, Ben, *do* exonerate Sirhan from the murder charge.  What you're suggesting is maybe he was guilty of attempted murder.  That's different.

But if RFK was actually killed by Cesar and/or others what can we say about Sirhan's role?

He only got off two shots before he was pounced on and the rest of his bullets went astray.  Neitjher of his first two shots was fatal.

If you were planning the murder to be accomplished by others, trained killers, what would you want Sirhan;s role to be?

Yep, the distraction, drawing the attention of the crowd while others murdered Kennedy, and as a patsy to blame the whole thing on.

What's the alternative, once it's clear Sirhan did not fire the fatal shots? Acting on his own, Sirhan tried to kill Kennedy but just happened to fire at the same time as the real killers did?  Sound even plausible to you?

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

21 minutes ago, Roger Odisio said:

But the autopsy and the LAPD study you just referenced, Ben, *do* exonerate Sirhan from the murder charge.  What you're suggesting is maybe he was guilty of attempted murder.  That's different.

But if RFK was actually killed by Cesar and/or others what can we say about Sirhan's role?

He only got off two shots before he was pounced on and the rest of his bullets went astray.  Neitjher of his first two shots was fatal.

If you were planning the murder to be accomplished by others, trained killers, what would you want Sirhan;s role to be?

Yep, the distraction, drawing the attention of the crowd while others murdered Kennedy, and as a patsy to blame the whole thing on.

What's the alternative, once it's clear Sirhan did not fire the fatal shots? Acting on his own, Sirhan tried to kill Kennedy but just happened to fire at the same time as the real killers did?  Sound even plausible to you?

 

 

Roger,

     You and Ben need to study Dr. Daniel Brown's truly stellar forensic psychology evaluation of Sirhan.

     Ben has never understood Dr. Brown's psychological data about Sirhan's hypnotic programming and dissociative disorder-- which was also described by Dr. Bernard Diamond.

      Post-hypnotic suggestion is an unusual phenomenon.  It can induce profound amnesia, and superficially inexplicable behavior-- which is often rationalized by subjects in odd ways.

      For example, Dr. Diamond once hypnotized Sirhan in prison, and suggested that, after his hypnotic session, Sirhan would climb around on the bars of his cell after Dr. Diamond gave him a cue by taking out his handkerchief and blowing his nose.  But he also told Sirhan that he would not remember being told to climb on the bars of his cell.

      Some time after Sirhan came out of his trance state, Dr. Diamond took out his handkerchief and blew his nose.  Then Sirhan began climbing on the bars of his prison cell.

      When he was asked why he was climbing on the bars of his cell, Sirhan said that he was trying to get some exercise.

       Similarly, Sirhan had psychogenic amnesia for his hypnotic programming to fire a gun at RFK in response to a cue-- being pinched by a girl in a polka dot dress.

       But, like climbing on the bars of his cell for exercise, Sirhan also created an explanation for firing a gun at RFK.  He wanted to free Palestine.

       In other words, he had total amnesia for the hypnotic suggestion to shoot RFK, in response to a specific cue.

      

Edited June 6 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

But the autopsy and the LAPD study you just referenced, Ben, *do* exonerate Sirhan from the murder charge.  What you're suggesting is maybe he was guilty of attempted murder.  That's different.

But if RFK was actually killed by Cesar and/or others what can we say about Sirhan's role?

He only got off two shots before he was pounced on and the rest of his bullets went astray.  Neitjher of his first two shots was fatal.

If you were planning the murder to be accomplished by others, trained killers, what would you want Sirhan;s role to be?

Yep, the distraction, drawing the attention of the crowd while others murdered Kennedy, and as a patsy to blame the whole thing on.

What's the alternative, once it's clear Sirhan did not fire the fatal shots? Acting on his own, Sirhan tried to kill Kennedy but just happened to fire at the same time as the real killers did?  Sound even plausible to you?

 

 

RO--

 

Thnks for your collegial comments.

 

Yes...you are right, you have put your finger on it.

I have the sentiment that Sirhan was/is guilty of attempted murder. 

But add on: Also a murder that he knew would subvert democratic processes. The American public would be thwarted in voting for RFK1. We do not get to choose our candidates, it would narrowed down by an assassin. 

That is not an insubstantial charge. 

[Denise Hazelwood]

12 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

But the autopsy and the LAPD study you just referenced, Ben, *do* exonerate Sirhan from the murder charge.  What you're suggesting is maybe he was guilty of attempted murder.  That's different.

But if RFK was actually killed by Cesar and/or others what can we say about Sirhan's role?

If it was Thane Cesar who killed RFK, then there could very well have been a situation very similar to what happened with JFK—a “good guy with a gun” who not only failed to improve the situation, but actually made the situation much, much worse.

 That said, neither death would have occurred if it hadn’t been for the bad guy with a gun—Oswald/Sirhan.

Oh, the irony!

[W. Niederhut]

5 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

If it was Thane Cesar who killed RFK, then there could very well have been a situation very similar to what happened with JFK—a “good guy with a gun” who not only failed to improve the situation, but actually made the situation much, much worse.

 That said, neither death would have occurred if it hadn’t been for the bad guy with a gun—Oswald/Sirhan.

Oh, the irony!

Denise,

     If I recall correctly, the CIA's assassination protocols-- from the 1950s-- included the concept of setting up a patsy, who would be the designated fall guy for assassination ops.  The setting up of patsies was an important aspect of these black ops, to disguise the op and deflect blame from the actual perpetrators.

    As in Oswald's case, a patsy was set up in the JFK Chicago assassination op (before Dallas.)

    In Sirhan's case, the perpetrators went the extra mile to ingeniously set up an actual "assassin" who had been hypnotically conditioned to fire a gun in front of a crowd.

    Lisa Pease discusses the actual ballistics evidence in detail in her definitive analysis of the RFK assassination op-- A Lie Too Big to Fail.

    IMO, Sirhan was a genuine Manchurian Candidate-- a young man with a dissociative disorder who was highly susceptible to hypnosis and techniques of skilled hypnotic programming.  Dr. Daniel Brown had to jump through a lot of hoops to finally examine Sirhan in prison, but he was able to elucidate the nature of Sirhan's post-hypnotic conditioning to go into "range mode" and fire a gun at RFK, in response to a command cue.  (See the "George Estabrooks" EF thread for those details.)

    Incidentally, another fascinating back story on the RFK assassination op is Fernando Faura's 2016 book, The Polka Dot File.  We talked about Faura and Fahey on the RFK Assassination board a few years ago.

    

Edited June 7 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

William,

To be specific, the CIA had studied setting up both a Manchurian Candidate to be an assassin, and one to be a fall guy.

I think its in the Marks book.  And he actually states there how long it would take to program either one.

This is why Helms disposed of 14,000 pages of MK Ultra before he left.

Cesar had to have been the main killer, for all the reasons stated by Roger above.

Just remember what Wecht said about Noguchi's autopsy of RFK.  It was one of the finest medico-legal reports he ever read.

[Larry Hancock]

And for those who want to explore the subject with a comprehensive knowledge of both the crime scene and the related forensics, ballistics and autopsy work I suggest John Hunt's clinical study of the actual evidence:

https://www.amazon.com/Buried-Plain-Site-Search-Murder-ebook/dp/B0BR5WWY3Y

If you have not read it then you simply don't have all the facts...or at least I don't see how that would be possible and I've studied the LAPD materials extensively myself.....but that was nothing in comparison to what John did.

 

[Tom Gram]

43 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

And for those who want to explore the subject with a comprehensive knowledge of both the crime scene and the related forensics, ballistics and autopsy work I suggest John Hunt's clinical study of the actual evidence:

https://www.amazon.com/Buried-Plain-Site-Search-Murder-ebook/dp/B0BR5WWY3Y

If you have not read it then you simply don't have all the facts...or at least I don't see how that would be possible and I've studied the LAPD materials extensively myself.....but that was nothing in comparison to what John did.

 

I’ve been meaning to buy and read this but haven’t got around to it yet. Thanks for the reminder. I’ll pick it up this weekend. 

[James DiEugenio]

I will be reviewing it at K and K.

This case is simply not discussed enough.

The murder of RFK sealed the casket on the sixties.

 

Edited June 9 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

54 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I will be reviewing it at K and K.

This case is simply not discussed enough.

The murder of RFK sealed the casket on the sixties.

 

JD--Ditto times 100. 

Who could possibly have the resources and influence to do a snuff job on the RFK1A  investigation? On top of the Warren Commission? 

This seems to rule out anyone not connected to the US-intel state. 

---

BTW, one reservation I have about the idea of true "Manchurian assassin":

It has been nearly 60 years since the RFK1, and sadly, if there are people programming other people, they will have now had another many decades to improve techniques and drugs. 

Yet...there are no solid stories of brainwashed killers. 

There must have been, not the just the US, but in many other governments, intel-types trying to create brainwashed killers.

There are (again sadly) too many people in the world willing to sell any type of knowledge to the highest bidder--meaning if there was a replicable method for brainwashing people to commit specific acts of violence or sabotage or document thefts, that would have leaked out.

But we see nothing. In all directions---that is, the US has not ever charged another nation with brainwashing a US spy, and vice-versa. Nor has Vietnam charged China with such, and do on. 

I am not convinced of the idea of a Manchurian assassin. 

 

Edited June 9 by Benjamin Cole