David Talbot's "Brothers" Book: RFK1 Was Pursuing Truth About JFKA

[Benjamin Cole]

In 2007, David Talbot published Brothers: Hidden History of the Kennedy Years. 

In the book, Talbot expresses the view that RFK1 did not have faith in the Warren Commission, and was pursuing a private, informal investigation into the JFKA. 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-may-30-et-talbot30-story.html

Talbot told the L.A. Times in in 2007:

“This whole area is a rabbit hole, a dark labyrinth, and I was determined not to get lost in it,” Talbot says over coffee at The Times. “I think Vincent Bugliosi got lost in it. My way was to use Bobby Kennedy as a light, and to explore what he thought happened. I think he was looking at the CIA and their secret war on Castro in which they used militant Cuban exiles and mobsters to carry out their dirty work. I think Bobby thought that was the operation that turned its guns against JFK.”

As stated, there is a great deal that links the RFK1A and the JFKA. 

Many have said RFK1 planned, if he got to the White House, to do a serious look-see into the JFKA. This only five years after the event, when nearly all the players were still alive.

Could the CIA tolerate that? Is that alone enough explain the motive behind the RFK1A? 

[Denise Hazelwood]

I think RFK1 knew what had happened with the AR-15 shot. I thought that what he really said was that the WC had done a botched job. At the time of JFK’s death, he was still the AG. If he had truly wanted a deeper investigation done, he could have gotten it done. If Johnson had not wanted it done, or if RFK1 had truly wanted to know more, he could have easily gone to the Press and said something.

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

I think RFK1 knew what had happened with the AR-15 shot. I thought that what he really said was that the WC had done a botched job. At the time of JFK’s death, he was still the AG. If he had truly wanted a deeper investigation done, he could have gotten it done. If Johnson had not wanted it done, or if RFK1 had truly wanted to know more, he could have easily gone to the Press and said something.

Denise,

      My impression is that RFK well knew that he was a persona non grata, and in danger, after the 11/22/63 coup.

      Robert Morrow, and others, know all the sordid LBJ/RFK details but, as I recall, J. Edgar Hoover stopped communicating with RFK after 11/22/63.

      RFK was, more or less, stranded on a political island in the Deep State, surrounded by mortal enemies-- including LBJ.

      And Jackie rightly feared that RFK would be murdered if he ran for POTUS in 1968.

      

Edited June 7 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/7/2024 at 3:58 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Denise,

      My impression is that RFK well knew that he was a persona non grata, and in danger, after the 11/22/63 coup.

      Robert Morrow, and others, know all the sordid LBJ/RFK details but, as I recall, J. Edgar Hoover stopped communicating with RFK after 11/22/63.

      RFK was, more or less, stranded on a political island in the Deep State, surrounded by mortal enemies-- including LBJ.

      And Jackie rightly feared that RFK would be murdered if he ran for POTUS in 1968.

      

True.  From the time he declared his candidacy for President.  He was a marked man.  I believe those who did assassinate him planned for the possibility well before 1968.  If he declared and started showing significant support, he had to go.  No more Kennedys.

[Robert Morrow]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:21 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

In 2007, David Talbot published Brothers: Hidden History of the Kennedy Years. 

In the book, Talbot expresses the view that RFK1 did not have faith in the Warren Commission, and was pursuing a private, informal investigation into the JFKA. 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-may-30-et-talbot30-story.html

Talbot told the L.A. Times in in 2007:

“This whole area is a rabbit hole, a dark labyrinth, and I was determined not to get lost in it,” Talbot says over coffee at The Times. “I think Vincent Bugliosi got lost in it. My way was to use Bobby Kennedy as a light, and to explore what he thought happened. I think he was looking at the CIA and their secret war on Castro in which they used militant Cuban exiles and mobsters to carry out their dirty work. I think Bobby thought that was the operation that turned its guns against JFK.”

As stated, there is a great deal that links the RFK1A and the JFKA. 

Many have said RFK1 planned, if he got to the White House, to do a serious look-see into the JFKA. This only five years after the event, when nearly all the players were still alive.

Could the CIA tolerate that? Is that alone enough explain the motive behind the RFK1A? 

Jackie Kennedy, Evelyn Lincoln, Ethel Kennedy and ROBERT KENNEDY all immediately thought LYNDON JOHNSON had murdered JFK. The reason Robert Kennedy thought that was he was the point man on the "destroy LBJ" campaign that was in high gear in November 1963. Lyndon Johnson was acutely aware of and highly agitated about this "destroy LBJ campaign" that the Kennedys were waging against him.

When the Kennedys sent WILLIAM WALTON to Moscow within a week of the JFK assassination, they made sure Walton told the Russians that the selection of LBJ had been a grievous mistake. By 1965, the KGB had internally concluded that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. This fact was memorialized in a memo from Hoover to LBJ/Marvin Watson on December 1, 1966, a time which the Garrison investigation in New Orleans was heating up.

Hoover Memo to Marvin Watson (LBJ's chief of staff), 12/1/1966:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32204484.pdf

Arthur Schlesinger on Robert Kennedy being convinced at one point that Lyndon Johnson had murdered John Kennedy

 "We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

 [C. David Heymann, RFK, p. 365]

Ethel Kennedy in 1963 was 100% for dumping Lyndon Johnson and replacing him as VP with her husband Robert Kennedy. She advocated this repeatedly

 QUOTE

           At the time of JFK’s death (November 1963), there was talk among Kennedy insiders of dumping LBJ as a running mate in the 1964 election. Ethel Kennedy made repeated recommendations that there be a Kennedy-Kennedy ticket, RFK to fill the vice-presidential slot. It is doubtful, however, that such a plan would have passed muster with either the president of the attorney general.

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heymann, RFK, p. 542]

 Robert Kennedy, Jr. on how Lyndon Johnson was presented as a nemesis to the Kennedy family when he was a kid

 QUOTE

 “Lyndon Johnson was rather a nemesis to the family while we were growing up,” reminisced Bobby, Jr. “In retrospect, he was one of the best presidents we ever had, but during the heat of battle, the kids all regarded him as some kind of ogre.”

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heyman, RFK, p. 367]

Jackie Kennedy on her Mistrust of Lyndon Johnson. Source is Meg Azzoni, an early girlfriend of JFK, Jr.

One of JFK, Jr.'s best friends at the Phillips Academy was Meg Azzoni. In spring, 1977, she and John went to visit Jackie while Caroline was still at Harvard. Meg says: "Jackie told John and I at the 'break-the-fast' breakfast, 'I did not like or trust Lyndon Johnson.' No one said another word the whole meal in memorial contemplative silence."

[Meg Azzoni, "John F. Kennedy, Jr. to Meg Azzoni: 11 Letters: Memories of Kennedys & Reflections on His Quest,” p. 52]

 

 

Edited June 14 by Robert Morrow

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said:

Jackie Kennedy, Evelyn Lincoln, Ethel Kennedy and ROBERT KENNEDY all immediately thought LYNDON JOHNSON had murdered JFK. The reason Robert Kennedy thought that was he was the point man on the "destroy LBJ" campaign that was in high gear in November 1963. Lyndon Johnson was acutely aware of and highly agitated about this "destroy LBJ campaign" that the Kennedys were waging against him.

When the Kennedys sent WILLIAM WALTON to Moscow within a week of the JFK assassination, they made sure Walton told the Russians that the selection of LBJ had been a grievous mistake. By 1965, the KGB had internally concluded that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. This fact was memorialized in a memo from Hoover to LBJ/Marvin Watson on December 1, 1966, a time which the Garrison investigation in New Orleans was heating up.

Hoover Memo to Marvin Watson (LBJ's chief of staff), 12/1/1966:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32204484.pdf

Arthur Schlesinger on Robert Kennedy being convinced at one point that Lyndon Johnson had murdered John Kennedy

 "We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

 [C. David Heymann, RFK, p. 365]

Ethel Kennedy in 1963 was 100% for dumping Lyndon Johnson and replacing him as VP with her husband Robert Kennedy. She advocated this repeatedly

 QUOTE

           At the time of JFK’s death (November 1963), there was talk among Kennedy insiders of dumping LBJ as a running mate in the 1964 election. Ethel Kennedy made repeated recommendations that there be a Kennedy-Kennedy ticket, RFK to fill the vice-presidential slot. It is doubtful, however, that such a plan would have passed muster with either the president of the attorney general.

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heymann, RFK, p. 542]

 Robert Kennedy, Jr. on how Lyndon Johnson was presented as a nemesis to the Kennedy family when he was a kid

 QUOTE

 “Lyndon Johnson was rather a nemesis to the family while we were growing up,” reminisced Bobby, Jr. “In retrospect, he was one of the best presidents we ever had, but during the heat of battle, the kids all regarded him as some kind of ogre.”

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heyman, RFK, p. 367]

Jackie Kennedy on her Mistrust of Lyndon Johnson. Source is Meg Azzoni, an early girlfriend of JFK, Jr.

One of JFK, Jr.'s best friends at the Phillips Academy was Meg Azzoni. In spring, 1977, she and John went to visit Jackie while Caroline was still at Harvard. Meg says: "Jackie told John and I at the 'break-the-fast' breakfast, 'I did not like or trust Lyndon Johnson.' No one said another word the whole meal in memorial contemplative silence."

[Meg Azzoni, "John F. Kennedy, Jr. to Meg Azzoni: 11 Letters: Memories of Kennedys & Reflections on His Quest,” p. 52]

 

 

RM--

Thanks for posting. 

My present hunch is that the JFKA and RFK1A are connected. The former required the latter. The same ultimate perps, different cat's paws. 

I do not see a fading LBJ ordering a hit of RFK1 in 1968 and then forcing a cover-up.

Just IMHO. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

On 6/7/2024 at 10:53 AM, Denise Hazelwood said:

I think RFK1 knew what had happened with the AR-15 shot. I thought that what he really said was that the WC had done a botched job. At the time of JFK’s death, he was still the AG. If he had truly wanted a deeper investigation done, he could have gotten it done. If Johnson had not wanted it done, or if RFK1 had truly wanted to know more, he could have easily gone to the Press and said something.

I think you're right. No one could stop Bobby if he wanted to open an investigation. I really think Bobby was perplexed among several suspect groups, and I'm not sure he made much progress in ferreting it  out. Any idea that he'd someday become President and launch an investigation as Talbot claims, at least at that point were very immature. He's had never won an office and was in the shadow of his brothers. He made plans for the New York Senate seat, but I think he realized the power of the martyrdom first at the 64 Democratic convention and realized he could be the heir apparent.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I think you're right. No one could stop Bobby if he wanted to open an investigation. I really think Bobby was perplexed among several suspect groups, and I'm not sure he made much progress in ferreting it  out. Any idea that he'd someday become President and launch an investigation as Talbot claims, at least at that point were very immature. He's had never won an office and was in the shadow of his brothers. He made plans for the New York Senate seat, but I think he realized the power of the martyrdom first at the 64 Democratic convention and realized he could be the heir apparent.

KG-

And after the RFK1A, there was little chance RFK could pursue a true JFKA investigation. 

[Joe Bauer]

There is a remarkable interview ( even mind blowing imo ) accessible on You Tube of the widow of the William King Harvey. C.G. Harvey, a former CIA employee herself who worked on "Operation Paperclip."

In her last years she was incredibly, even viciously critical of JFK, JACKIE KENNEDY and RFK. She described them as "really scum."

Obviously reflecting her deceased husband's similar personal views of the Kennedys.

C.G. Harvey also stated in this interview that "Bobby Kennedy and my husband were absolutely enemies. Pure enemies." And that Bobby was "an idiot."

She and her husband much more respected and preferred the company of Mafioso capo John Roselli ( real name Filippo Sacco- Mafia nickname "Handsome Johnny" ) who Mrs. Harvey still affectionately remembered as simply "Johnny." 

"I loved Roselli"

"Roselli really was Mafia. And he really did pull off some real shenanigans but" ... "Johnny" was a "real patriot" she warmly recalled.

( yes, you read that right...incredible!")

"My husband ( Bill Harvey ) used to say if he needed someone to watch his back" that's the guy ( Roselli ) I would take with me."

Think about the reality of this top CIA man in Rome and his wife's personal hatred of the Kennedy's and yet at the same time, their love and devotion to a Mafioso big shot like Roselli. 

If that perverse hate filled disloyalty toward one's own president versus love and respect for a high level organized crime figure dichotomy doesn't disturb your sense of JFK danger amongst his own agency hierarchy...what would?

Another thing about Harvey's widow that sickened me was her total lack of feeling for Jackie Kennedy and her children's suffering and loss on 11,22,1963.

Here is a woman near the end of her life...and she cannot say anything good or even slightly sorry about the brutally traumatized Jackie Kennedy except to call her "scum?"

You'd think a woman might mellow in a more female bonding empathetic way into her last days toward a woman with young children who suffered so much pain and loss on 11,22,1963.

Jackie lost her husband at the young age of just 34! And in such a beyond words brutal and traumatic way. What if Mrs. Harvey had suffered a similar pain and loss?

But to Mrs. Harvey ... she still could not give Jackie Kennedy one word of older age female kindness tolerance empathy and instead referred to her as "really scum." What a cold hearted *****!

It's truly important to watch the following William Harvey historical perspective interview. In fact I urge you to do.

 
In this world-exclusive video, JFK Facts presents a fascinating interview with C.G. Harvey, the widow of legendary CIA officer William King Harvey. Clara Grace Harvey was a CIA officer herself who worked on Operation Paperclip, the agency’s program to evacuate scientists from Nazi Germany.

 

 

Edited June 14 by Joe Bauer

[Robert Morrow]

13 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

RM--

Thanks for posting. 

My present hunch is that the JFKA and RFK1A are connected. The former required the latter. The same ultimate perps, different cat's paws. 

I do not see a fading LBJ ordering a hit of RFK1 in 1968 and then forcing a cover-up.

Just IMHO. 

Benjamin, you are welcome. At Education Forum we can agree on some things (the JFK assassination was a conspiracy) while we can "collegially disagree" on many things.

I have been a member of the JFK research community since Spring, 2008 which is 16 years ago. I have been exposed to a lot of people who believe 1) the RFK assassination was a conspiracy led by probably the CIA and 2) Watergate was a CIA or military war hawk conspiracy to intentionally bungle the Watergate break-in so that Richard Nixon would be taken down in a scandal. Supposedly these enraged Hardliners were angry about Nixon's foreign policy of detente.

After all these years, I have never found anything compelling about an RFK assassination conspiracy. I happen to think Sirhan Sirhan was an enraged Palestinian Christian who killed RFK over his support for Israel and I also think Sirhan actually got extremely close to Robert Kennedy as he shot him (a lot close than 3 feet away).

I also have never found anything compelling that would prove that the CIA, the military or war hawks intentionally made those Watergate burglars screw up so they could get caught. Yes, Alexander Haig was trying to destroy Nixon once his approval rating hit 28% and the entire Republican party was about to be hit with a sledgehammer in the 1974 midterms.

If there WAS a conspiracy in the RFK assassination, then Lyndon Johnson would have been a top suspect because - in my almost never humble opinion - Lyndon Johnson murdered JFK and Robert Kennedy was acutely aware of this but was powerless to do anything about it. Lyndon Johnson - who killed JFK - lived in mortal fear of his #1 enemy Robert Kennedy attaining the White House. This is why in April of 1968 Lyndon Johnson so desperately wanted his friend Republican NELSON ROCKEFELLER to run for President (See Robert Dallek's book on LBJ). LBJ would have done everything he could have to helped Rocky.

Lyndon Johnson kept asking the Secret Service about Robert Kennedy, “Is he dead yet?”

https://www.dcdave.com/article5/140923.htm

“That evening, Johnson repeatedly phoned the Secret Service to ask if [Robert] Kennedy had died. He paced the floor for hours, phone in hand, muttering: ‘I've got to know. Is he dead? Is he dead yet?’ '' (David M. Oshinsky, New York Times, Oct. 26, 1997)

David Martin:

QUOTE

James R. Jones, Johnson’s chief of staff in 1968, spoke for most of us when he wrote some 20 years later in The New York Times, “Most Americans couldn't believe that this larger-than-life figure could voluntarily relinquish the reins of power. Scholars and politicians still argue over what really motivated his decision to step down.”  Jones then proceeds to offer a whopper of an explanation that is Johnson-like in its proportions.  This most selfish, self-centered user and abuser of people, concludes Jones, stepped down so he could work to end the war that he inherited and never quite believed in, free of politics.

 We see how well that worked out, as the war continued through another presidential term and then some, but that is the explanation that the historian Dallek also settles upon, citing Jones, as the one best fitting the facts.

 When this is the best that they can do, you just know there has to be another explanation.  Jones, near the end of his article, inadvertently points us toward that explanation when, as an eyewitness, he recounts the reaction of Vice President Hubert Humphrey when he is told by Johnson that he is determined not to seek reelection and that Humphrey is now the man to step up.

 “Mr. Humphrey's facial expression was pathetic at that moment. Shoulders hunched, he said softly, 'There's no way I can beat the Kennedys.' “

 There you have it.  Just two weeks before, in the wake of the surprisingly strong showing of insurgent antiwar candidate Senator Eugene McCarthy in the New Hampshire primary, Senator Robert Kennedy had announced his own candidacy for president.  The Kennedy juggernaut was out of port and ready for battle.  If Humphrey thought that he had little chance against it, one may readily conclude that Johnson’s chances wouldn’t have been all that good, either.

 UNQUOTE

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

Benjamin, you are welcome. At Education Forum we can agree on some things (the JFK assassination was a conspiracy) while we can "collegially disagree" on many things.

I have been a member of the JFK research community since Spring, 2008 which is 16 years ago. I have been exposed to a lot of people who believe 1) the RFK assassination was a conspiracy led by probably the CIA and 2) Watergate was a CIA or military war hawk conspiracy to intentionally bungle the Watergate break-in so that Richard Nixon would be taken down in a scandal. Supposedly these enraged Hardliners were angry about Nixon's foreign policy of detente.

After all these years, I have never found anything compelling about an RFK assassination conspiracy. I happen to think Sirhan Sirhan was an enraged Palestinian Christian who killed RFK over his support for Israel and I also think Sirhan actually got extremely close to Robert Kennedy as he shot him (a lot close than 3 feet away).

I also have never found anything compelling that would prove that the CIA, the military or war hawks intentionally made those Watergate burglars screw up so they could get caught. Yes, Alexander Haig was trying to destroy Nixon once his approval rating hit 28% and the entire Republican party was about to be hit with a sledgehammer in the 1974 midterms.

If there WAS a conspiracy in the RFK assassination, then Lyndon Johnson would have been a top suspect because - in my almost never humble opinion - Lyndon Johnson murdered JFK and Robert Kennedy was acutely aware of this but was powerless to do anything about it. Lyndon Johnson - who killed JFK - lived in mortal fear of his #1 enemy Robert Kennedy attaining the White House. This is why in April of 1968 Lyndon Johnson so desperately wanted his friend Republican NELSON ROCKEFELLER to run for President (See Robert Dallek's book on LBJ). LBJ would have done everything he could have to helped Rocky.

Lyndon Johnson kept asking the Secret Service about Robert Kennedy, “Is he dead yet?”

https://www.dcdave.com/article5/140923.htm

“That evening, Johnson repeatedly phoned the Secret Service to ask if [Robert] Kennedy had died. He paced the floor for hours, phone in hand, muttering: ‘I've got to know. Is he dead? Is he dead yet?’ '' (David M. Oshinsky, New York Times, Oct. 26, 1997)

David Martin:

QUOTE

James R. Jones, Johnson’s chief of staff in 1968, spoke for most of us when he wrote some 20 years later in The New York Times, “Most Americans couldn't believe that this larger-than-life figure could voluntarily relinquish the reins of power. Scholars and politicians still argue over what really motivated his decision to step down.”  Jones then proceeds to offer a whopper of an explanation that is Johnson-like in its proportions.  This most selfish, self-centered user and abuser of people, concludes Jones, stepped down so he could work to end the war that he inherited and never quite believed in, free of politics.

 We see how well that worked out, as the war continued through another presidential term and then some, but that is the explanation that the historian Dallek also settles upon, citing Jones, as the one best fitting the facts.

 When this is the best that they can do, you just know there has to be another explanation.  Jones, near the end of his article, inadvertently points us toward that explanation when, as an eyewitness, he recounts the reaction of Vice President Hubert Humphrey when he is told by Johnson that he is determined not to seek reelection and that Humphrey is now the man to step up.

 “Mr. Humphrey's facial expression was pathetic at that moment. Shoulders hunched, he said softly, 'There's no way I can beat the Kennedys.' “

 There you have it.  Just two weeks before, in the wake of the surprisingly strong showing of insurgent antiwar candidate Senator Eugene McCarthy in the New Hampshire primary, Senator Robert Kennedy had announced his own candidacy for president.  The Kennedy juggernaut was out of port and ready for battle.  If Humphrey thought that he had little chance against it, one may readily conclude that Johnson’s chances wouldn’t have been all that good, either.

 UNQUOTE

 

 

 

RM--

Thanks for your collegial comments. Yes, we have different takes on the JFKA and RFK1A. 

Of course, I do not have divine interpretations of world events and politics, unlike some of our gifted colleagues and moderators. 

I may wrong on the JFKA and RFK1A. 

For now, my hunch is RFK's rise towards the Oval Office triggered the RFK1A. And that was necessary, given the JFKA. A lot of these people were still alive back then. 

Larry Hancock is surely a skilled and circumspect JFKA/RFK1A researcher. See his work: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Incomplete_Justice_-_At_the_Ambassador_Hotel.html

I wrote up a post on the RFK1A, since banished by moderators to EF-JFKA Siberia (see below) 

I enjoy your views on LBJ. He certainly had motives, and character to perp the JFKA. But the RFK1A?