Could an Outsider in the Oval Office Open Up the JFK Records?

[Matt Allison]

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Bilge this thread already.

Edited June 13 by Matt Allison

[Paul Brancato]

11 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

      No false equivalence, please.

     Aren't you forgetting about January 6th, Fox News Propaganda, Citizens United, Shelby v. Holder, and the "Starve-the-Beast" GOP stealth agenda to de-fund Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare, in order to pay for the 2001/2003/2017 Bush/Trump tax cuts for billionaires?

     Which partisan media "bubble" actively promoted Trump's 2020 Stop-the-Steal scam?

     Which party voted, repeatedly, after 2010 to abolish Obamacare?

     Which party actually passed a House budget bill in 2011 abolishing Medicare for future retirees-- and replacing it with an inadequately funded Paul Ryan Voucher Care plan?

     Which party voted to abolish the Obamacare individual mandate in December of 2017, along with mandated cuts in Medicare and Medicaid funding?

     I agree with you about the military industrial complex, but let's give Biden and the Democrats some credit for at least bringing down the costs of some critically important pharmaceuticals-- including insulin and inhalers.

     Meanwhile, the GOP has fought tooth-and-claw to block legislation empowering Medicare to negotiate for lower pharmaceutical costs!

     There is no meaningful equivalence between the 21st century Koch/Trump GOP and the Democratic Party.

      That's a myth engendered by MAGA propagandists.

     

As usual though you missed my point. Isn’t there a biblical quote that applies? I always feel like you think it necessary to educate me and everyone else on how awful the Republican agenda is. I want to clean up the Democratic Party. Roughly 12% of Americans have diabetes. Look no further to understand why we have bad health outcomes here. Lowering the price of insulin is good and necessary, and should be done for all Americans not just ones on Medicare. More importantly we never ask why they are ill. This is where both parties fail us. They are both in the pockets of corporations, and all the Democrats ever do is work around the margins. Until we have drastic change we will have a declining life expectancy, poor public education, and a host of other problems I don’t need to enumerate. In order to get from here to there we will have to eliminate the  sharp divisions among us and find common ground. So I stand by what I said. Tolerance is the first step to bridging the divide. Americans of all stripes agree on many of the issues that plague us, but the duopoly has failed us over and over. 
As a small experiment I recently told my FB friends that I was anti abortion and pro choice. Is that so hard to understand? Apparently yes. But it’s an attempt to bridge an ever widening divide. Pro choice people are on the right side of history, but that cannot be read as ‘pro abortion’. Who in their right minds is pro abortion? 

Edited June 13 by Paul Brancato

[Ron Bulman]

18 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Trump, followed by Biden have kept the records in the vault. 

Biden takes the cake, having (apparently) done a permanent snuff job on the records. 

So, Trump was a bad guy for not releasing the records when he could have.  But "Biden takes the cake," so he must be much worse than Trump?

"if-rfk2 Elected"

None of that is about current politics?

I understand "could-JFK-records-still-be-kept-in the-vault?", by Any Future President who sought to release them.

This thread to me has become toxic.  It has people I respect arguing with each other.  Can the subject not be discussed without reference to current candidates?  It seems not.  As mentioned in another thread, in relation to this one, other member(s) have requested/suggested it be moved.  I don't like censorship by doing so myself.  But if letting it run wild and develop into chaos is the alternative?  

Some have suggested the moderators vote on moving any thread.  There are only two of us at the moment.  Mark is settling in at home after getting married last weekend.  I don't want to go running to him at this time.  He was here yesterday, and took action on at least three items, independently, he'll be back.  I think I have an idea what he would do/say.  We will wait a while and see.  If things get worse, I'll move it and he can move it back if he chooses to.

[W. Niederhut]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

As usual though you missed my point. Isn’t there a biblical quote that applies? I always feel like you think it necessary to educate me and everyone else on how awful the Republican agenda is. 

Well, Paul, this is the Education Forum.

If we compare the actual historical record of the two U.S. parties on healthcare, there is no equivalence whatsoever.

Ted Kennedy and the Democrats established Medicare-- a program that dramatically reduced senior poverty in the U.S., and enabled affordable medical care for an aging population that was difficult to affordably insure.

Ronald Reagan opposed Medicare, and the Koch/Tea Party House actually passed a 2011 budget bill that would have ended Medicare, as we know it, for future retirees.

Trump's December 2017 tax cut bill for the rich also mandated cuts for Medicaid and Medicare.

Similarly, the Tea Party House voted repeatedly to abolish Obamacare-- the first legislation in U.S. history to establish a framework for universal healthcare coverage.

Where's the equivalence?

As for tolerance, should we "tolerate" the attempted violent overturning of a lawful U.S. election by a corrupt POTUS who refused to accept the results?

[Matt Cloud]

20 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, Paul, this is the Education Forum.

If we compare the actual historical record of the two U.S. parties on healthcare, there is no equivalence whatsoever.

Ted Kennedy and the Democrats established Medicare-- a program that dramatically reduced senior poverty in the U.S., and enabled affordable medical care for an aging population that was difficult to affordably insure.

Ronald Reagan opposed Medicare, and the Koch/Tea Party House actually passed a 2011 budget bill that would have ended Medicare, as we know it, for future retirees.

Trump's December 2017 tax cut bill for the rich also mandated cuts for Medicaid and Medicare.

Similarly, the Tea Party House voted repeatedly to abolish Obamacare-- the first legislation in U.S. history to establish a framework for universal healthcare coverage.

Where's the equivalence?

As for tolerance, should we "tolerate" the attempted violent overturning of a lawful U.S. election by a corrupt POTUS who refused to accept the results?

Wasn't "Starve the Best," to which you referred earlier, OMB Director David Stockman's strategy, he of the Michigan State SDS, who arrived at Harvard Divinity School, according to his mentor, "preaching the infallibility of Ho Chi Minh. Next thing you know, he turns up in Washington proclaiming the immutability of the Laffer curve"?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/17/books/moles-in-the-white-house.html

 

"Came The [Perpetual] Revolution"?  (Perhaps not very "conservative.")

 

• 

Click image to open expanded view

 

 

 

 

 

 

Came the Revolution: Argument in the Reagan Era Hardcover – January 1, 1988

by Daniel Moynihan (Author)

 

 

 

Offers criticisms of Reaganomics, Star Wars, budget cuts, foreign policy, and other aspects of the recent conservative revolution.

 

 

---

 

 

 

Opinion | CREEPING DISSENT - The Washington Post

 

Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com › archive › 1995/03/22

 

 

 

 

Mar 22, 1995 — At a Gridiron Club dinner one spring, Moynihan told a bemused President Reagan that budget director Stockman "is our mole. We have ...

 

Let Reagan Be Reagan - Ethics & Public Policy Center

 

Ethics and Public Policy Center (EPPC)

https://eppc.org › Publications

 

 

 

 

Jan 21, 2014 — Elsewhere Moynihan describes Stockman as “an absorbing figure to a student of ideology not least because of his near addiction. He goes on as if ...

 

WASHINGTON JOURNAL

 

Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 1990/01/18

 

 

 

 

Jan 18, 1990 — In 1981, Stockman (who incidentally boarded with Moynihan while studying at Harvard in the 1970s) crafted a politically irresistible tax cut to ...

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

So, Trump was a bad guy for not releasing the records when he could have.  But "Biden takes the cake," so he must be much worse than Trump?

"if-rfk2 Elected"

None of that is about current politics?

I understand "could-JFK-records-still-be-kept-in the-vault?", by Any Future President who sought to release them.

This thread to me has become toxic.  It has people I respect arguing with each other.  Can the subject not be discussed without reference to current candidates?  It seems not.  As mentioned in another thread, in relation to this one, other member(s) have requested/suggested it be moved.  I don't like censorship by doing so myself.  But if letting it run wild and develop into chaos is the alternative?  

Some have suggested the moderators vote on moving any thread.  There are only two of us at the moment.  Mark is settling in at home after getting married last weekend.  I don't want to go running to him at this time.  He was here yesterday, and took action on at least three items, independently, he'll be back.  I think I have an idea what he would do/say.  We will wait a while and see.  If things get worse, I'll move it and he can move it back if he chooses to.

RB-

You have the power, not me. 

The legal scholars we have access to, Andrew Iler, Mark Adamczyk, Lawrence Schnapf and Bill Simpich, all state what Biden has done is worse than what Trump did in regards to the JFKA records (I plan to not vote for either Biden or Trump, btw). 

James DiEugenio has said we will never see the JFK Records under the Biden Administration's Orwellian "Transparency Board."

That above is the irrefutable record of Trump and Biden.  If it were the reverse, I would say the reverse. I do not have partisan perspectives anymore, having thrown in the towel on the two major parties. 

Really---the topic of what has happened to the JFK Records is obviously of supreme importance to the EF-JFKA. 

Sometimes threads are hijacked by participants hued with extreme partisan sensitivities.

Some have posited that you should clip out the partisan sentiments, but leave the thread. 

But rest easy...nothing said in the EF-JFKA will have the slightest impact on the pending election. I take it you are very inclined to Democratic Party. 

As it is, RFK2 is sinking in the polls.

If I had to bet I would bet on Biden, though both parties are vying mightily to lose.  This is most rotten candidate selection in the post-war era. 

Perhaps I will change the thread title.

 

[Ron Bulman]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, Paul, this is the Education Forum.

If we compare the actual historical record of the two U.S. parties on healthcare, there is no equivalence whatsoever.

Ted Kennedy and the Democrats established Medicare-- a program that dramatically reduced senior poverty in the U.S., and enabled affordable medical care for an aging population that was difficult to affordably insure.

Ronald Reagan opposed Medicare, and the Koch/Tea Party House actually passed a 2011 budget bill that would have ended Medicare, as we know it, for future retirees.

Trump's December 2017 tax cut bill for the rich also mandated cuts for Medicaid and Medicare.

Similarly, the Tea Party House voted repeatedly to abolish Obamacare-- the first legislation in U.S. history to establish a framework for universal healthcare coverage.

Where's the equivalence?

As for tolerance, should we "tolerate" the attempted violent overturning of a lawful U.S. election by a corrupt POTUS who refused to accept the results?

Why did you do that W?  You forced me to respond.