Deletion of valid JFKA thread by mods

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

I agree with Gerry.  Moving threads to forums like politics is a covert form of censorship to all the members except those who frequent that other forum.  I suspect a lot of members don't go to the politics forum, myself included.  Something is lost if the thread being moved has any relevance to understanding the murder.

In previous discussions about moving, I suggested the criterion for moving a thread should be exactly that.  Move a thread only if it lacks relevance. To no response by the mods.

I also suggested that if they think a thread *also* belongs in, say, politics, paste it to there.  But leave it here.  Again no response.

Can I now get a mod or two (how many are there, and who are they?) to now respond to the points I make here?

Roger,

    Let me respond, as one of the new moderators.

    I happen to agree with Robert Morrow, and with Mark Knight's decision to consolidate the numerous Trump Assassination threads on a separate board from the JFK Assassination board.  

    The claim that these Trump threads are "Valid JFKA" threads begs the question.

     What is their validity for the JFKA?

     JFK and Trump are vastly different characters living in vastly different times and circumstances.

     Oswald and Crooks appear to have vastly different histories.

     Gun homicides and mass shootings by angry white males in the U.S. are a daily occurrence in 2024.

     When I was a lad, in 1963, it was a major scandal if a kid brought a knife to school.

      Republican politicians now wear AR-15 pins on their lapels.

      Finally, no Trump threads have been censored.  They have been moved.

      Interested members can still read them and post comments at their leisure.

     

     

Edited Wednesday at 10:39 PM by W. Niederhut

[David Von Pein]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

The claim that these Trump threads are "Valid JFKA" threads begs the question.

     What is their validity to the JFKA?

     JFK and Trump are vastly different characters living in vastly different times and circumstances.

But Gerry Down's original now-moved thread wasn't about "JFK and Trump". It was specifically a thread called "Lee Harvey Oswald vs. Thomas Matthew Crooks". Meaning it was a thread that was created to discuss the similarities between those two gunmen. The thread wasn't created to discuss "JFK and Trump" at all.

I don't think Gerry's thread should have been moved away from the JFKA forum, because (IMO) it's a thread that most certainly does relate directly to the JFKA, because Gerry is comparing Crooks to JFK's alleged assassin, LHO. That's directly related to JFKA subject matter.

 

[W. Niederhut]

12 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But Gerry Down's original now-moved thread wasn't about "JFK and Trump". It was specifically a thread called "Lee Harvey Oswald vs. Thomas Matthew Crooks". Meaning it was a thread that was created to discuss the similarities between those two gunmen. The thread wasn't created to discuss "JFK and Trump" at all.

I don't think Gerry's thread should have been moved away from the JFKA forum, because (IMO) it's a thread that most certainly does relate directly to the JFKA, because Gerry is comparing Crooks to JFK's alleged assassin, LHO. That's directly related to JFKA subject matter.

 

And what, exactly, are those alleged similarities between Oswald and Crooks, David?

Let me guess.  You think Oswald was a "Lone Nut" who killed JFK with the Carcano from the TSBD? 🙄

As I recall, when I pointed out their vastly different histories yesterday, you denied that Oswald was an ex-Marine and CIA false defector who had numerous contacts with CIA and FBI assets-- Shaw, Bannister, Ferrie, Ruth Paine, De Mohrenschildt, Hosty, et.al.

Edited Wednesday at 10:55 PM by W. Niederhut

[Sandy Larsen]

16 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

"Lee Harvey Oswald vs. Thomas Matthew Crooks". Meaning it was a thread that was created to discuss the similarities between those two gunmen

 

What similarity between two gunman? Crooks was a caught-on-tape, witnessed gunman. Oswald was only alleged to be a gunman, and the evidence indicates he wasn't.

 

[David Von Pein]

4 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

As I recall, when I pointed out their vastly different histories yesterday, you denied that Oswald was an ex-Marine and CIA false defector who had numerous contacts with CIA and FBI assets-- Shaw, Bannister [sic], Ferrie, Ruth Paine, De Mohrenschildt, Hosty, et.al.

My exact words in response to your wholly-unproven and (frankly) ridiculous assertion above were these words (which, of course, still apply today--and all days to follow):

"Well, having a vivid imagination about Lee Oswald's activities certainly aids the conspiracy theorists, that's for sure."

And, yes, of course, Oswald was a Lone Nut who killed JFK with a Carcano from the Depository. The evidence clearly shows that to be true. Why should I ignore all of that?

 

[David Von Pein]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Oswald was only alleged to be a gunman, and the evidence indicates he wasn't.

The evidence clearly indicates precisely the opposite (of course).

 

[David Von Pein]

FYI / FWIW / FTR (For The Record)....

Gerry Down's original thread-starting post in the "Oswald Vs. Crooks" thread is the excellent one reprinted below, posted on July 15, 2024:

[Quote On:]

"The recent assassination attempt by Crooks on former president Trump provides an interesting opportunity for comparison between him and Lee Harvey Oswald.  

Some comparisons of note include:

• LHO was young (24). TMC was young (20).
• LHO was a loner. TMC was a loner.
• LHO was bullied (in school, and the marines). TMC was bullied (in school).
• LHO was intelligent (read a lot of books). TMC was intelligent (won a school math aware).
• LHO enjoyed playing chess. TMC enjoyed playing chess.
• LHO was involved in debates (on the radio in N.O.). TMC was involved in debates (school debates). 
• LHO in his teens was interested in military service. TMC in his teens, according to a former classmate, was interested in military service.
• LHO wore camouflage (in the marines). TMC wore camouflage to school.
• LHO liked guns (as confirmed by Adrian Alba in N.O.). TMC liked guns.
• LHO was interesting in bomb making. TMC was interested in bomb making.
• LHO involved himself in contradictory positions (FPCC & DRE). TMC involved himself in contradictory positions (registered Republican & donating to Democratic causes).
• LHO shot at his target from a distance. TMC shot at his target from a distance.
• LHO used an unsuitable assassination rifle (an old bolt action rifle). TMC used an unsuitable assassination rifle (AR-15, not suitable for long distance).
• LHO put other peoples lives at risk during his assassination attempt (Gov. Connally, Mrs. Kennedy). TMC put other peoples lives at risk during his assassination attempt (Corey Comperatore, James Copenhaver, David Dutch). 
• LHO shot a law enforcement officer (officer Tippit). TMC threatened to shoot a law enforcement officer (seconds before shooting at Trump).
• LHO had no obvious motive. TMC had no obvious motive (as of yet anyway).  
• LHO had no criminal record. TMC had no criminal record."

Edited Wednesday at 11:20 PM by David Von Pein

[Roger Odisio]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Roger,

    Let me respond, as one of the new moderators.

    I happen to agree with Robert Morrow, and with Mark Knight's decision to consolidate the numerous Trump Assassination threads on a separate board from the JFK Assassination board.  

    The claim that these Trump threads are "Valid JFKA" threads begs the question.

     What is their validity for the JFKA?

     JFK and Trump are vastly different characters living in vastly different times and circumstances.

     Oswald and Crooks appear to have vastly different histories.

     Gun homicides and mass shootings by angry white males in the U.S. are a daily occurrence in 2024.

     When I was a lad, in 1963, it was a major scandal if a kid brought a knife to school.

      Republican politicians now wear AR-15 pins on their lapels.

      Finally, no Trump threads have been censored.  They have been moved.

      Interested members can still read them and post comments at their leisure.

     

     

I didn't see the thread.  But it looks like it wasn't about Trump.  You and others have a real problem turning so many threads into being about Trump or the red vs blue nonsense, when they have other important things to say.

More important, William, here you are imposing your answer to the question posed --Oswald and Crooks are nothing alike, you say, and can teach us nothing--as a basis for removing the thread from this forum.  And not allowing other opinions to be heard. 

I said *re*moving because as I just explained, this *is* censorship to everyone who doesn't follow it to politics.  Which I don't, and no one is obliged to do. 

A new mod, huh.  Then perhaps you, or one of the others, or all of you can get together and offer a consensus answer to the points I made earlier, which I have made several times before.

*Shouldn't the test of whether a thread gets moved or stays be whether it is relevant to understanding the murder.  Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the answer a poster offers, if he does offer an answer?

*Claiming a post is relevant to another forum is no basis for moving it there, if it is relevant here.  Can't it be pasted to there while remaining here? 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

40 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Some comparisons of note include:

• LHO was young (24). TMC was young (20).
• LHO was a loner. TMC was a loner.
• LHO was bullied (in school, and the marines). TMC was bullied (in school).
• LHO was intelligent (read a lot of books). TMC was intelligent (won a school math aware).
• LHO enjoyed playing chess. TMC enjoyed playing chess.
• LHO was involved in debates (on the radio in N.O.). TMC was involved in debates (school debates). 
• LHO in his teens was interested in military service. TMC in his teens, according to a former classmate, was interested in military service.
• LHO wore camouflage (in the marines). TMC wore camouflage to school.
• LHO liked guns (as confirmed by Adrian Alba in N.O.). TMC liked guns.
• LHO was interesting in bomb making. TMC was interested in bomb making.
• LHO involved himself in contradictory positions (FPCC & DRE). TMC involved himself in contradictory positions (registered Republican & donating to Democratic causes).
• LHO shot at his target from a distance. TMC shot at his target from a distance.
• LHO used an unsuitable assassination rifle (an old bolt action rifle). TMC used an unsuitable assassination rifle (AR-15, not suitable for long distance).
• LHO put other peoples lives at risk during his assassination attempt (Gov. Connally, Mrs. Kennedy). TMC put other peoples lives at risk during his assassination attempt (Corey Comperatore, James Copenhaver, David Dutch). 
• LHO shot a law enforcement officer (officer Tippit). TMC threatened to shoot a law enforcement officer (seconds before shooting at Trump).
• LHO had no obvious motive. TMC had no obvious motive (as of yet anyway).  
• LHO had no criminal record. TMC had no criminal record."

 

So I guess we can conclude from this list of comparisons that the things that drive a person to become a CIA operative are the same as those that drive a person to become an assassin.

Who knew?

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:55 PM by Sandy Larsen

[Gerry Down]

LHO was smug and arrogant (using big words he didn't fully understand but for which Frazier had to go get a dictionary). TMC was smug and arrogant.

An online article states:

Taormina that Crooks was usually quiet, except on certain topics that he seemed passionate about, including math and politics. And on those issues, he could be "smug [and] arrogant," he added.

"He would just talk, talk and act like he knew everything, especially politics related, and he would say it in a tone that was like, 'I'm better than you,' in a type of way," he said.

Link: https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-classmate-recalls-trump-shooter-grilling-him-over-support-former-potus-did-not-like-politicians

[Gerry Down]

2 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

An online article states:

Taormina that Crooks was usually quiet, except on certain topics that he seemed passionate about, including math and politics. And on those issues, he could be "smug [and] arrogant," he added.

"He would just talk, talk and act like he knew everything, especially politics related, and he would say it in a tone that was like, 'I'm better than you,' in a type of way," he said.

Link: https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-classmate-recalls-trump-shooter-grilling-him-over-support-former-potus-did-not-like-politicians

How many times have we heard Oswald described like this 😆

[Gerry Down]

LHO threatened to blow up the FBI. TMC threatened to shoot up a school.

Link: https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-classmate-recalls-trump-shooter-grilling-him-over-support-former-potus-did-not-like-politicians

Edited yesterday at 12:17 AM by Gerry Down

[Greg Doudna]

Crooks seems classic school shooter type, bullied, pain inside, in an America with easy access to guns, a variant of teen suicide issues going out in a blaze of fury, not ideological or political. Everyone asks why and typically there is no reason other than a kid so unhappy they snap. A college friend of mine was shot and killed in a horrific mass shooting in Brookfield, Illinois in national news. The shooter had no previous criminal record, was remembered as a helpful young man, killed as many as he could in a church meeting then turned the gun on himself. No one knew why. One theory was an apocalyptic sermon about the end of the age set him off; another was he went for help to the minister and was put down pretty hard and berated. But no one knew why really. 

Oswald as loner won’t wash though. He had friends in Minsk, in the Marines before that, then he married and loved Marina and his baby girls. 

The loner tag on Oswald doesn’t work.  Nor does a school shooter/suicidal type work. Either he was innocent or he was acting out ideologically and politically. Either of those interpretations have difficulties too. 

Crooks seems like he had not traveled or had much of a life at age 20. Oswald had achieved more at age 24, seen the world, than 99% of his peers. 

Crooks prepared for his violence toward Trump at that event. Apart from a marked rifle in the TSBD, no sign of preparation by Oswald to kill JFK, no practice shooting, no buying of ammo, no claiming of credit, and no taking of the picture perfect kill shot opportunity of the limo on Houston before the turn on to Elm. 

With Oswald, it is not excluded he was framed for JFK. Crooks wasn’t framed. 

I doubt very much there was anyone conspiring with Crooks; if in the remote possibility that were to be so, the better parallel with Crooks would be Bremer and the assassination attempt on George Wallace. 

Edited yesterday at 12:28 AM by Greg Doudna

[W. Niederhut]

Roger,

     I'm responding to your post in red (below.)

Roger Odisio wrote: 

I didn't see the thread.  But it looks like it wasn't about Trump.  You and others have a real problem turning so many threads into being about Trump or the red vs blue nonsense, when they have other important things to say.

Incorrect.  The threads were about the assassination attempt on Trump, and included multiple posts from various social media sources promoting the popular MAGA theory that the assassination attempt was a Deep State plot.  It's a corollary of the alleged similarities between Oswald and Crooks.

As for your odd concept of "red vs blue nonsense," what, pray tell, is "nonsensical" about the current, stark public policy differences between the Trump GOP and the Democratic Party?  No informed person could believe such rot.

Have you studied Project 2025?   The GOP committee proposals to cut Social Security?  The GOP SCOTUS agenda on Citizens United, voter suppression,  rolling back Roe v. Wade, and blocking prosecutions of Trump's historic insurrection? 

Trump's debt-mushrooming additional proposed tax cuts for his billionaire base?

Trump's proposed sabotage of climate change mitigation and the EPA?

Trump's proposed sabotage of NATO and support for Ukrainian sovereignty?

If you think these major issues aren't "important," I can't help you.

More important, William, here you are imposing your answer to the question posed --Oswald and Crooks are nothing alike, you say, and can teach us nothing--as a basis for removing the thread from this forum.  And not allowing other opinions to be heard. 

Nonsense.  First of all, I didn't move those threads, although it was the correct decision.  Secondly, those threads are still on the forum.

If you want to read them and express your opinions, do so-- on the designated non-JFKA board.

I said *re*moving because as I just explained, this *is* censorship to everyone who doesn't follow it to politics.  Which I don't, and no one is obliged to do. 

If you can't be bothered to peruse the correct boards, that's your choice.  No one here is obliging you to do anything, other than following the forum rules.

And moving threads to the correct boards, certainly, doesn't constitute "censorship."

A new mod, huh.  Then perhaps you, or one of the others, or all of you can get together and offer a consensus answer to the points I made earlier, which I have made several times before.

Have you even bothered to read the numerous explanations from the moderators about why various threads have been moved?

*Shouldn't the test of whether a thread gets moved or stays be whether it is relevant to understanding the murder.  Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the answer a poster offers, if he does offer an answer?

What murder are you referring to?  JFK's?

You're begging the same question.

What do Crooks' AR-15 shots at Trump have to do with JFK's murder? 

*Claiming a post is relevant to another forum is no basis for moving it there, if it is relevant here.  Can't it be pasted to there while remaining here? 

You're begging the question again.

Forum members should make an effort to post their threads on the correct boards.

Edited yesterday at 02:56 AM by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

This is such baloney.  And no one notices who it was pushed by?

Down  and Von Pein? Does that not tell you something?

Talk about false equivalency.

Oswald never fired a shot at the motorcade, and we can prove that its the wrong rifle in evidence.

There are pictures of this guy on top of the building with his rifle.

The dead giveaway in the two cases is this: within about four hours of the assassination, the whole profile of Oswald, including his defection, was dumped into the media hopper by CIA asset Hal Hendrix.  Proof of the frame up.  (Great scene with Mr. X reading the column in the film JFK)

We still do not have a full profile on this guy.  Since he was not framed.

Down is a quiet WC zealot, DVP is a stick it in your face WC zealot, they are desperate to further an illusion.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:41 AM by James DiEugenio