Did Batchelor Escort Ruby From the Back Door in an Elevator to the Basement?

[Pete Mellor]

Aaron L. (Red) Edwards was a detective in the Burglary & Theft Bureau.  On the 22nd he took affidavits from witnesses in the Sheriffs Office.  However he is not named as being present in the basement on the 24th., in Westbrook's listing.  I have encountered one other D.P.D. member with the epithet of 'red' & that was because of his hair colour not any political affiliation.  However also not mentioned in Westbrook's list was Homicide Det. Leslie Dell Montgomery, who is visible in Bob Jackson's photograph.  Also Lt. James R. Gilmore (Vice Section), Det. E.R. Beck & Patrolman Ronald C. Nelson were present, but not listed, according to the W.C. testimony of Lt Jack Revill

Sadly the Police Reserve personnel (and there were apparently over 20 of these in and around the basement at the time of Oswald's transfer) are not covered in any lists giving their duties etc.  So a Worley, & 'Red' Davis, like Croy may well be one of these reserve officers.

I think we need David Joseph to add his info here. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

17 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Aaron L. (Red) Edwards was a detective in the Burglary & Theft Bureau.  On the 22nd he took affidavits from witnesses in the Sheriffs Office.  However he is not named as being present in the basement on the 24th., in Westbrook's listing.  I have encountered one other D.P.D. member with the epithet of 'red' & that was because of his hair colour not any political affiliation.  However also not mentioned in Westbrook's list was Homicide Det. Leslie Dell Montgomery, who is visible in Bob Jackson's photograph.  Also Lt. James R. Gilmore (Vice Section), Det. E.R. Beck & Patrolman Ronald C. Nelson were present, but not listed, according to the W.C. testimony of Lt Jack Revill

Sadly the Police Reserve personnel (and there were apparently over 20 of these in and around the basement at the time of Oswald's transfer) are not covered in any lists giving their duties etc.  So a Worley, & 'Red' Davis, like Croy may well be one of these reserve officers.

I think we need David Joseph to add his info here. 

 

Yeah, DJ does still post but not often.  It's really interesting Westbrook would leave Batchelor off his list at the time, when he did in fact later testify to the WC somewhat extensively, 24 pages worth, the latter several about going back and forth to the basement.  Thanks to Kevin for mentioning it.  

He first passed through the basement about 8:00 AM.  Observing a TV camera in an inappropriate place.  Then back down about 9:15-45 to inspect the area for manpower needs after Decker told Curry, why don't y'all bring him to us.  Then about 30-45 minutes before Ruby shot Oswald until it happened.  Most of the WC softballs about reporters in the area, him attending the Armored Cars (there were two).  He heard he's coming, turned around and took two steps towards the armored car to shut its back doors and heard a boom.  Took no part in the security of Oswald himself or the investigation.

I don't trust anything about Westbrook.  Was he the last known possessor of the witness list from the Texas Theater?  Where the Personnel Officer participated in Oswald's arrest, among other activities that day? 

[Ron Bulman]

No Red Davis mentioned in the Vaughn statement to Sneed in No More Silence nor Batchelor.  But Vaught mentions Dean possibly opening the door for Ruby.  would Red Edwards not want his name used at that time but have told Vaughn's lawyer and Vaughn the truth of what he'd been told regarding Batchelor?

The more I read of this.  Ruby didn't go down the ramp. Vaughn told the truth, as his lie detector results said.  IDK with who but Ruby had a Back Door Love Affair with someone there.

 

[Ron Bulman]

Long as I'm on a musical bent.  Might Roy Vaugh have been related to Stevie Ray Vaughn?  SRV and Jimmy are from Oak Cliff.  Don't know where Roy, his wife and 5 children lived in 1963.  A brother, an uncle, a cousin?   Roy moved to Midlothian, S/E of Dallas in the mid 1960's, to a bigger house to accommodate his family.  At the suggestion of and across the street from Roger Craig, then the Justice of the Peace and working elsewhere.  Whose life then went to hell.  In the middle of all this Penn Jones, who bailed out Craig initially and ran the local newspaper and wrote Forgive My Greif.  

Maybe also an ode to Jim Marrs.

 

[Ron Bulman]

This thread was not intended to be solely about Batchelor escorting Ruby down the elevator.  Tatro's article deserves a thread of its own.  Batchelor may well have done so, four sources.  Vaughn later implies Dean may have opened the back door for Ruby.  Maybe why he implicated Vaughn strenuously and argued with Warren about it?  Failed the lie detector test he requested and created questions for, while Vaughn passed his?

The thing is, Ruby didn't go down the ramp.  Vaughn told the truth.  Verified by another officer and his test.  So, Ruby went in by another route, almost exclusively limited to the back door of the city hall annex.  A direct walk from Western Union through a parking lot.  Somebody met him there and escorted him further to make sure he got to his appointment next to Blackie Harrison on time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

Vaughn's comment about Dean is interesting.  While there are in essence four sources about Batchelor escorting Ruby, Dean was very touchy about Ruby down the ramp when questioned. Again, he failed his lie detector test after creating his own questions, Vaughn passed his straight up, their questions.  Dean deserves more attention in general.

[Ron Bulman]

On 8/16/2024 at 10:40 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Vaughn's comment about Dean is interesting.  While there are in essence four sources about Batchelor escorting Ruby, Dean was very touchy about Ruby down the ramp when questioned. Again, he failed his lie detector test after creating his own questions, Vaughn passed his straight up, their questions.  Dean deserves more attention in general.

Something I'd never caught in the first reading of Tatro's article was Dean's reported dinner with Joe Civello, at Civello's request shortly after his arrest in 1958 at the Appalachian bust.  1979 interview with Peter Dale Scott, Anthony Summers and others.  He said "he first met Civello at a place frequented by Senators, Judges, Councilmen."

A little bell went off inside my tinfoil hat.

The Dallas Texas Tribune, 1940's - 1960's.  Reports of the Zuroma, then Anonymous Club, Thursday evening meetings.  It was Italian based there since th late 1920's.  Chaired in the late 1950's- early 1960's by Joseph Civello.  This from Mark North's Betrayal In Dallas.  From copies in the book, from the LBJ Library. 

1/25/1947, new member voted in, Joe Civello.

5/3/1958 Judge Glen Byrd, future US Congressman Joe Pool, and future LBJ appointed (recommended to JFK) Judge Barefoot Sanders.

7/7/1962.  Mayor Earl Cabell, District Attorney Henry Wade, Sheriff Bill Decker, Candidate for Congress Joe Pool (lake I've been to). 

Edited Wednesday at 04:01 AM by Ron Bulman

[Joe Bauer]

28 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

7/7/1962.  Mayor Earl Cabell, District Attorney Henry Wade, Sheriff Bill Decker, Candidate for Congress Joe Pool (lake I've been to). 

Sounds like the whole city icons and even Decker were crooked as heck.

[Ron Bulman]

Yeah Joe, the reports in the Tribune are fascinating to me.  Only place I've ever found them is in the exhibits at the end of Betrayal in Dallas by Mark North, whose conclusions I don't agree with.  But they are actual copies of the reports from the paper and sourced to the LBJ library.

The Tribune was an Italian newspaper.  The Zumora club was an Italian club.  Joe Civello became a member in I think 1946 (same year Ruby came down from Chicago?), he was head of it by 1958 and still in 1963.  They rented a house near Love field for the weekly Thursday evening meeting.  A catered traditional Italian supper, cigars and drinks discussing important issues, then an (illegal) poker game.  This is where it sounds like Patrick Dean said he met Civello.  The book says it is rumored LBJ visited there in the 1940's.

Why would the head of the Dallas mafia, overseer of Northeast Texas operations for Carlos Marcello, after being busted at the national gathering of mafia heads in Appalachian NY, shortly request a dinner with a at the time 26-year-old DPD Sargent of 1-2 years?

BTW, the book does make clear through copies of their correspondence that Henry Wade idolized LBJ.    

[Denis Morissette]

Batchelor with the hat lighting up a cigarette. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Denis Morissette said:

Batchelor with the hat lighting up a cigarette. 

 

Makes me think of David Altee Phillips with two cigarettes in the ashtray, before he walked out.  A bit nervous? 

[Kevin Balch]

14 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

Batchelor with the hat lighting up a cigarette. 

 

Unless something else was said prior to what is contained in the video, NBC reporter Don Petit’s summary that Ruby was IN the green car was not correct.

[Kevin Balch]

This video suggests that it was Levelle who appeared in Fritz’s office window in his white suit that would have been visible to Ruby from the Western Union office. However, the window indicated in the video was on the east side of the Annex building while Fritz’s office was in the Municipal building on the wester side of the duplex (according to the John Armstrong article). It does show the door that Ruby likely used to enter the building.

For some reason, the video starts 6 minutes in. I tried resetting the clock and sharing but it doesn’t help. You’ll have to manually reset the start of the video.

 

[Ron Bulman]

12 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

This video suggests that it was Levelle who appeared in Fritz’s office window in his white suit that would have been visible to Ruby from the Western Union office. However, the window indicated in the video was on the east side of the Annex building while Fritz’s office was in the Municipal building on the wester side of the duplex (according to the John Armstrong article). It does show the door that Ruby likely used to enter the building.

For some reason, the video starts 6 minutes in. I tried resetting the clock and sharing but it doesn’t help. You’ll have to manually reset the start of the video.

 

Great video.  Lots of footage I've never seen.