Lee Bowers Rush to Judgement Transcript--"no accomplices" behind the wooden fence, and a bit about the 3 tramps

[Denise Hazelwood]

On my website, I have published three pages the transcript of Lee Bowers' original interview with Mark Lane for the Rush to Judgement film, which I acquired from the Wisconsin Center for Film and Theater Research. (The transcript is available for $12.50 plus tax.) 

Page 8 of the transcript contains the pertinent information about "no accomplices" behind the picket fence--no "badge man" and no spotter. But of course, that didn't fit with the narrative Mark Lane wanted to tell of a shooter behind the fence, so it was edited out!! Shame on them!!

On page 8, Bowers says, "Now I could see back or the South side of the wooden fence in the area, so that obviously that there was no one there who could have--uh -- had anything to do with either -- as accomplices or anything else because there was no one there...um... at the moment that the shots were fired."

Pages 9-10 contains information about the "three tramps," whom Bowers describes as "three winos" who were taken out of a boxcar of the train. It's fairly obvious that the three tramps/winos had nothing to do with the assassination.

You can check out the pages from the transcript and learn how to receive your own copy, if you want it, on my website at https://www.a-benign-conspiracy.com/lee-bowers-transcript.html . 

Of course, the shooter of the "fatal head shot" wasn't behind the wooden fence; he was in front of the fence, in the follow-up car on the road. But it's a hard slog to convince many of you of that. 🙂

[Benjamin Cole]

34 minutes ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

On my website, I have published three pages the transcript of Lee Bowers' original interview with Mark Lane for the Rush to Judgement film, which I acquired from the Wisconsin Center for Film and Theater Research. (The transcript is available for $12.50 plus tax.) 

Page 8 of the transcript contains the pertinent information about "no accomplices" behind the picket fence--no "badge man" and no spotter. But of course, that didn't fit with the narrative Mark Lane wanted to tell of a shooter behind the fence, so it was edited out!! Shame on them!!

On page 8, Bowers says, "Now I could see back or the South side of the wooden fence in the area, so that obviously that there was no one there who could have--uh -- had anything to do with either -- as accomplices or anything else because there was no one there...um... at the moment that the shots were fired."

Pages 9-10 contains information about the "three tramps," whom Bowers describes as "three winos" who were taken out of a boxcar of the train. It's fairly obvious that the three tramps/winos had nothing to do with the assassination.

You can check out the pages from the transcript and learn how to receive your own copy, if you want it, on my website at https://www.a-benign-conspiracy.com/lee-bowers-transcript.html . 

Of course, the shooter of the "fatal head shot" wasn't behind the wooden fence; he was in front of the fence, in the follow-up car on the road. But it's a hard slog to convince many of you of that. 🙂

DH-

I agree, that CT'ers defecate on themselves when they alter evidence. We should scrutinize CT versions of The Truth with the same skeptical eye we bring to LN versions. 

"Now I could see back or the South side of the wooden fence in the area"---Lee Bowers 

That said, this sentence is confusing. If you check a map, someone hiding behind the wooden fence (from the perspective of the motorcade) would be on the north side of the stockade fence. The north side of the wooden fence is what would be visible to Bowers. 

 

OK, so...was Bowers referring to that space behind the wooden fence adjacent to the Triple Underpass? That is, on the left side of the map above? That would be the most southerly portion of the wooden fence. 

If so, then Bowers is leaving open the possibility that there could have been a shooter at or near the junction of the two wooden fences. Bowers also said he saw smoke at the time he heard gunfire. 

Or is Bowers referring to the southerly portion of that part of the wooden fence that runs north/south before making a junction with the east-west section of the fence?  That would mean shooters could be behind the fence, but further east. 

It is too bad that even Mark Lane, who conducted so many excellent interviews, at times left ambiguities unresolved.

We have to note it was a lot harder to film anything in those days, and that creating, say, a large map on an easel to illuminate an interview required a trip to specialty reprographic shops and so on. 

Lane worked on a budget. 

I admire you for finding and looking at primary materials. 

 

 

[Denise Hazelwood]

17 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

versions. 

"Now I could see back or the South side of the wooden fence in the area"---Lee Bowers 

By your map, Bowers was to the west of the fence. I believe that he had a view pretty much of the entire fence, both parts, from his position in the tower. The trees were on the east side of the fence. I take his statement to mean that he saw the fence on his side and saw that no one was there.

 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

On my website, I have published three pages the transcript of Lee Bowers' original interview with Mark Lane for the Rush to Judgement film, which I acquired from the Wisconsin Center for Film and Theater Research. (The transcript is available for $12.50 plus tax.) 

Page 8 of the transcript contains the pertinent information about "no accomplices" behind the picket fence--no "badge man" and no spotter. But of course, that didn't fit with the narrative Mark Lane wanted to tell of a shooter behind the fence, so it was edited out!! Shame on them!!

On page 8, Bowers says, "Now I could see back or the South side of the wooden fence in the area, so that obviously that there was no one there who could have--uh -- had anything to do with either -- as accomplices or anything else because there was no one there...um... at the moment that the shots were fired."

Pages 9-10 contains information about the "three tramps," whom Bowers describes as "three winos" who were taken out of a boxcar of the train. It's fairly obvious that the three tramps/winos had nothing to do with the assassination.

You can check out the pages from the transcript and learn how to receive your own copy, if you want it, on my website at https://www.a-benign-conspiracy.com/lee-bowers-transcript.html . 

Of course, the shooter of the "fatal head shot" wasn't behind the wooden fence; he was in front of the fence, in the follow-up car on the road. But it's a hard slog to convince many of you of that. 🙂

Denise,

     Thanks for posting this. 

      For me, it raises some questions about Bowers history of being threatened before his untimely death.

     As I recall, Bowers had initially given a fairly detailed description of the two men standing in the parking lot by the picket fence before JFK's motorcade arrived.

     He also described seeing a flash of light, and smoke, near the fence at the time of the assassination and three shots-- BANG...(pause) BANG BANG...

     Oddly, the Warren Commission interrogators, (Ball, et.al.?) apparently, didn't want to hear all of those critical details. 

     Secondly, Bowers was, allegedly, threatened and told not talk about what he had seen.  (Similar to the Parkland docs' experiences.)

     My question.  Was Bowers later afraid to tell Mark Lane the straight story?

     

Edited September 6 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

Of course, the shooter of the "fatal head shot" wasn't behind the wooden fence; he was in front of the fence, in the follow-up car on the road. But it's a hard slog to convince many of you of that. 🙂

Yep.  because this is ridiculous.  Bowers admitted to two men behind the fence.  One an accomplice?  He also told his preacher he didn't tell the DPD/FBI/SS/CIA/WC all he saw.  His wife said the told him to quit talking, but he didn't.  Not too long after the Lane interview he ended up dead in a questionable accident investigated by a friend, a Texas Department of Public Safety Officer, part of whose job it was to do such, trained in this, who concluded he'd been run off the road after investigating the scene and automobile. 

[Denise Hazelwood]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

As I recall, Bowers had initially given a fairly detailed description of the two men standing in the parking lot by the picket fence before JFK's motorcade arrived.

I interpret Bowers’ statements about the two men to mean that the two men were on the street side of the fence, not the railroad side.

[Benjamin Cole]

11 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

I interpret Bowers’ statements about the two men to mean that the two men were on the street side of the fence, not the railroad side.

DH-

Here is some more primary research for you.

This is Bowers' somewhat underwhelming Nov. 22 affidavit. I tend to place more weight on early and Nov. 22 statements and affidavits, in general made and received before pressures emerged to conform with official story lines, which took a couple days to emerge, 

 

Bowers mentioned vehicles that may have been suspicious, but not much else. No men with guns, or objects that looked like guns. Was Bowers already fearful of authorities or others on Nov. 22? Did he knowingly decline to mention smoke or a flash of light? 

Bowers is similarly anodyne in his WC testimony. 

But Bowers then gave more detailed, or embellished, reports to others, depending on your point of view. 

from Matt Douthit:  

In 1964, he testified to the Warren Commission that there was a “commotion” near the wooden fence during the shooting: “...it was something out of the ordinary, a sort of milling around, but something occurred in this particular spot which was out of the ordinary, which attracted my eye for some reason, which I could not identify.” Commission counsel then immediately went to another topic.

Two years later in 1966, Bowers was interviewed on camera by attorney Mark Lane, and went into a little more detail: “...there was some unusual occurrence—a flash of light or smoke or something which caused me to feel like something out of the ordinary had occurred there.''

 

Unfortunately, four months after that interview, and before he had a chance to elaborate any further, Lee Bowers Jr. turned up dead.

 

“That filmed interview contains the only full record of what Bowers observed when the shots were fired,” Mark Lane later wrote in 1968.

 

We thus have so little information on him. The most important eyewitness to the Kennedy assassination was dead. It wasn’t until more than a quarter-century later though that we the public had the opportunity to eventually, and slowly, begin to put tiny pieces here and there together and start to see somewhat of a picture; what Lee Bowers had truly seen that November day behind the wooden fence:

 

* Researcher David Murph interviewed Reverend Wilfred Bailey, Bowers’s minister. "Lee did discuss that day with me. He said he saw movement behind the fence. He believed something was going on, but he never got more specific than that. He did not share with me any more than he shared with the Warren Commission."

 

* New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison was approached by James R. Sterling, a friend and fellow employee of Bowers. Sterling said Bowers “...observed two men running from behind the fence. They ran up to a car parked behind the Pergola, opened the trunk and placed something in it and then closed the trunk. The two men then drove the car away in somewhat of a peculiar method.”

 

* Another friend of Bowers, Walter Rischel, came forward and revealed to reporter Morey Terry: “He said he saw a car pull up. Two men got out of the car, and they were carrying what appeared to be rifles. He said that one gunman apparently positioned himself either on their car or on a car. The other one I don’t recall where he said he was. He said he saw both men fire shots. He could tell by the puffs of smoke that it came from the rifles.” Terry: “You’re saying that Lee Bowers told you that he saw both men fire?” Rischel: “Yes, he did.”

 

* In addition, legendary Texas journalist Penn Jones Jr. said he also heard the complete Bowers story: “He said he saw gunmen firing at the President from their hidden position. He didn’t see all of them, but he saw two of them that were firing. At the President.”

 

* And finally, there is Olan Degaugh, Bowers’s boss. Researcher Debra Conway wrote: “I interviewed the supervisor for the railroad yard and Bowers’ boss's superior. He told us that Bowers told him and his direct boss that he did see the two men BEHIND THE FENCE and he thought at least one of them was shooting. He said he didn't go further with it because he was afraid. He didn't want his life threatened or ruined being the main witness against Lee Oswald being the lone shooter.” From Conway’s notes: “Degaugh felt Bowers never told the authorities about the men, the car, or what he saw these men doing immediately after the shooting because he did not want to be more involved in the assassination controversy.” A few years later, Conway re-interviewed Degaugh. “Degaugh said that Bowers told him that he saw someone running away. This person put something inside a car, get into the car and drive away. Degaugh said that Bowers told him it looked like a rifle.”

https://www.facebook.com/SixthFloorMuseum/posts/this-104-year-old-railroad-switching-tower-seen-here-after-restoration-in-the-ea/10158348058713874/

---30---

If Bowers really did see men with what looked like guns behind the wooden fence, and in the railroad yard, and men firing, and surreptitiously leaving the scene after the JFKA...but failed to say as much in his Nov. 22 affidavit...well, not sure what to think. 

He did not feel a citizen's obligation to tell the truth on Nov. 22? 

 

[Steve Thomas]

How's this for a kick in the pants?

In his affidavit, Lee Bowers said that the 1959 Oldsmobile and the 1961 Chevy Impala that came in the area behind the fence that deadended in the railroad yards, had license plates with a white background, all black numbers and no letters.

I once wrote to a national association of license plate collectors, and asked them who, in 1963, had that configuration.

They wrote me back and said that there was only one state with that layout. It was Virginia.

Two cars with the same type Virginia plates, both with "Godwater for 64" stickers.

Can you say Langley?

Steve. Thomas

[Kevin Balch]

22 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Denise,

     Thanks for posting this. 

      For me, it raises some questions about Bowers history of being threatened before his untimely death.

     As I recall, Bowers had initially given a fairly detailed description of the two men standing in the parking lot by the picket fence before JFK's motorcade arrived.

     He also described seeing a flash of light, and smoke, near the fence at the time of the assassination and three shots-- BANG...(pause) BANG BANG...

     Oddly, the Warren Commission interrogators, (Ball, et.al.?) apparently, didn't want to hear all of those critical details. 

     Secondly, Bowers was, allegedly, threatened and told not talk about what he had seen.  (Similar to the Parkland docs' experiences.)

     My question.  Was Bowers later afraid to tell Mark Lane the straight story?

     

Why would Bowers even consent to be interviewed if he had been threatened?

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

How's this for a kick in the pants?

In his affidavit, Lee Bowers said that the 1959 Oldsmobile and the 1961 Chevy Impala that came in the area behind the fence that deadended in the railroad yards, had license plates with a white background, all black numbers and no letters.

I once wrote to a national association of license plate collectors, and asked them who, in 1963, had that configuration.

They wrote me back and said that there was only one state with that layout. It was Virginia.

Two cars with the same type Virginia plates, both with "Godwater for 64" stickers.

Can you say Langley?

Steve. Thomas

Indeed. Texas state troopers also had such plates. 

Interesting. 

Edited Saturday at 02:46 AM by Benjamin Cole

[Steve Thomas]

In his Affidavit, Bowers said the Oldsmobile had out-of-state plates and was dirty. Had it been driving for a long time?

The Ford had "the same type license plates as the Oldsmobile".

Steve Thomas

Edited Saturday at 05:00 AM by Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

Texas Exempt tags for many years now have been used on many state vehicles by many agencies.  I think the important part is Bowers noted they were out of state plates, that there was something different about them.  As in maybe they didn't say TEXAS prominently at the top.  That they said noting at the top.  But said something he couldn't read from the tower at the bottom (VIRGINIA?).

[Pat Speer]

I am sorry to report that Denise could have saved herself some money. The Bowers transcript was discovered and made public by Gary Mack, if I recall, when he was searching for proof of Badgeman. I first came across it on Dale Myers' site some 20 years ago. 

But yes, she is correct in that it's clear from the transcript Bowers was talking about men on the other side of the fence from him and not men on the other side of the fence from JFK. It seems probable moreover that he was describing the movements of Emmett Hudson and the man I believe to be F. Lee Mudd. 

From Chapter 7:

Lee Bowers was working in a railroad tower in the train yard north of the grassy knoll. (11-22-63 Affidavit to the County of Dallas, box 2 folder 1 file 15 of the Dallas JFK Archives) “I heard at least three shots very close together.” (11-22-63 report of the Dallas County Sheriff's Department, 19H510) "He said he heard what sounded like three shots from a rifle." (4-2-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 6H 284-289) (When asked if he saw any men between his own location and Elm Street) "Directly in line, towards the mouth of the underpass, there were two men. One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about mid-twenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket...They were standing within 10 or 15 feet of each other, and gave no appearance of being together, as far as I knew...They were facing and looking up towards Main and Houston, and following the caravan as it came down." (When asked if he could see the corner of Houston and Elm from his location) “after they passed the corner of Elm and Houston the car came in sight again…I heard three shots. One, then a slight pause, then two very close together. Also reverberation from the shots…The sounds came either from up against the School Depository Building or near the mouth of the triple underpass...At the moment I heard the sound, I was looking directly towards the area---at the moment of the first shot, as close as my recollection serves, the car was out of sight behind this decorative masonry wall in the area….  It came in sight immediately following the last shot...At the time of the shooting there seemed to be some commotion…I just am unable to describe it rather than it was something out of the ordinary, a sort of milling around, but something occurred in this particular spot which was out of the ordinary, which attracted my eye for some reason, which I could not identify.” (6-28-66 UPI article, found in the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner) "He observed two men in the area between the fence and the colonnade before the shooting but did not notice them later. Had an automobile been wedged in that area, he could not have missed it. Bowers says he saw a 'flash' or 'some kind of disturbance' under the trees atop the knoll at the time of the shooting. He saw no individual firing or anyone rushing from the scene but he thinks there is 'at least a 50-50 chance that something happened there' and it could have been a second gunman."

(Interview with Mark Lane in Rush to Judgment, 1966) “At the time of the shooting, in the vicinity of where the two men I described were, there was a flash of light or—there was something which occurred that caught my eye. What this was I couldn’t say at the time and at this time I couldn’t identify it, other than that there was some unusual occurrence, a flash of light or smoke or something, which caused me to feel that something out of the ordinary had occurred there…There were three shots.These were spaced with one shot, then a pause, and then two shots in very close order, such as perhaps (He raps on table with his hand “rap…raprap"). Almost on top of each other, while there was some pause between the first and second shots.” (When asked if he told this to the FBI) “When I stated that I felt like the second and third shots could not have been fired from the same rifle, they reminded me that I wasn’t an expert, and I had to agree.” (Unreleased segments of Bowers' 1966 interview with Mark Lane, from a transcript of the interview found in the papers of Rush to Judgment director Emilo de Antonio at the Wisconsin Historical Archives, and published online by Dale Myers, 2004)) (When asked if there were any pedestrians between his location and Elm Street) "Directly in line - uh - there - of course is - uh - there leading toward the Triple Underpass there is a curved decorative wall - I guess you'd call it - it's not a solid wall but it is part of the - uh - park....And to the west of that there were - uh - at the time of the shooting in my vision only two men. Uh - these two men were - uh - standing back from the street somewhat at the top of the incline and were very near - er - two trees which were in the area...And one of them, from time to time as he walked back and forth, uh - disappeared behind a wooden fence which is also slightly to the west of that. Uh - these two men to the best of my knowledge were standing there - uh - at the time - of the shooting...Ah - one of them, as I recall, was a middle-aged man, fairly heavy-set with - what looked like a white shirt. Uh - he remained in sight practically all of the time. The other individual was uh - slighter build and had either a plaid jacket or a plaid shirt on and he - uh -is walking back and forth was in and out of sight, so that I could not state for sure whether he was standing there at the time of the shots or not..." (When asked if he saw anyone suspicious in the area) "Other than these two and the people who were over on the top of the Underpass who - that were, for the most part, were railroad employees or were employees of a Fort Worth welding firm who were working on the railroad, uh - there were no strangers out in this area." (When returning to the question of whether or not anyone was shooting from behind the fence) "Now I could see back or the South side [Note: here MYERS adds "BOWERS is actually speaking of the north side of the fence] of the wooden fence in the area, so that obviously that there was no one there who could have - uh - had anything to do with either - as accomplice or anything else because there was no one there - um - at the moment that the shots were fired." Analysis: as we’ve seen time and time again, the bunching of the last two shots means the first shot hit. The bunching of these shots, moreover, makes Bowers a good witness for conspiracy. It should be pointed out, however, that Bowers is, despite widespread belief to the contrary, a terrible witness for the grassy knoll gunmen so many embrace as the cornerstone of this conspiracy. In opposition to what so many assume, Bowers never said he heard a shot come from the area around the picket fence, just that something there caught his eye. The unedited transcript of Bowers' interview with Mark Lane, moreover, is even more damaging to the case for a grassy knoll gunmen. It suggests both that the two men many think Bowers saw behind the fence were in fact in front of the fence, (quite possibly even Emmett Hudson--who wore a white shirt---and the man we presume is F. Lee Mudd--who wore what appears to be a red plaid shirt), and that Lane has been deceptive on this matter. First shot hit 190-224.  Last two shots bunched together.

Edited Saturday at 07:51 AM by Pat Speer

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

In his Affidavit, Bowers said the Oldsmobile had out-of-state plates and was dirty. Had it been driving for a long time?

The Ford had "the same type license plates as the Oldsmobile".

Steve Thomas

Man, those were the automobile days. A fellow could distinguish year, make and model of vehicles. I remember doing that as a kid. 

Now all the cars look alike, except for a few oddballs. 

Maybe a couple Virginia cars prowled the lot, seems likely.

But Bowers (in his 11/22 affidavit) does say even the second of the two non-Texas-plated vehicles left 10 minutes before the shooting. 

Witnesses like Bowers are vexing. Who knows which of Bowers' versions is the "real" version. 

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

(When asked if there were any pedestrians between his location and Elm Street) "Directly in line - uh - there - of course is - uh - there leading toward the Triple Underpass there is a curved decorative wall - I guess you'd call it - it's not a solid wall but it is part of the - uh - park....And to the west of that there were - uh - at the time of the shooting in my vision only two men. Uh - these two men were - uh - standing back from the street somewhat at the top of the incline and were very near - er - two trees which were in the area...And one of them, from time to time as he walked back and forth, uh - disappeared behind a wooden fence which is also slightly to the west of that. Uh - these two men to the best of my knowledge were standing there - uh - at the time - of the shooting...Ah - one of them, as I recall, was a middle-aged man, fairly heavy-set with - what looked like a white shirt. Uh - he remained in sight practically all of the time.

>>> The other individual was uh - slighter build and had either a plaid jacket or a plaid shirt on and he - uh -is walking back and forth was in and out of sight, <<<                                               

so that I could not state for sure whether he was standing there at the time of the shots or not..." (When asked if he saw anyone suspicious in the area)

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963, personally appeared Julia Ann Mercer, Address 5200 Belmont, No. 208, Dallas, Age 23, Employed: Automat Distributors, 1720 Canton, Dallas.

Deposes and says:

On November 22, 1963, I was driving a rented White Valient automobile west on Elm Street and was proceeding to the overpass in a westerly direction and at a point about 45 or 50 feet east of the overhead signs of the right entrance road to the overpass, there was a truck parked on the right hand side of the road. The truck looked like it had 1 or 2 wheels up on the curb. The hood of the truck was open. On the driver's side of the truck, there were printed letters in black, oval shaped, which said "Air Conditioning". This was a pickup truck and along the back side of the truck were what appeared to be tool boxes. The truck was a green Ford with a Texas license. I remember seeing the word "Ford" at the back of the truck.

A man was sitting under the wheel of the car and slouched over the wheel. This man had on a green jacket, was a white male and about his 40's >>> and was heavy set.<<<

I did not see him too clearly. Another man was at the back of the truck and reached over the tailgate and took out from the truck what appeared to be a gun case. This case was about 8" wide at its widest spot and tapered down to a width of about 4" or 5". It was brown in color. It had a handle and was about 3 1/2 to 4 feet long. The man who took this out of the truck then proceeded to walk away from the truck and he reached down to free it. He then proceeded to walk across the grass and up the grassy hill which forms part of the overpass. This is the last I saw of this man.

I had been delayed because the truck which I described was blocking my passage and I had to await until the lane to my left cleared so I could go by the truck.

During the time that I was at this point and observed the above incident there were 3 policeman standing talking near a motorcycle on the bridge just west of me.

 

>>> The man who took what appeared to be the gun case out of the truck was a white male, who appeared to be in his late 20's or early 30's and he was wearing a grey jacket, brown pants and >>> plaid shirt <<< as best as I can remember. <<<

 

I remember he had on some kind of a hat that looked like a wool stocking hat with a tassell in the middle of it. I believe that I can identify this man if I see him again.

The man who remained in the truck had light brown hair and I believe I could identify him also if I were to see him again.

(signed by) Julia Ann Mercer.

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd of November A.D. 1963

(signed by) Rosemary Allen

Notary Public, Dallas, Texas