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Collaborated effort?


Lee Forman
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I have found most researchers to be motivated by the best of intentions. They want to discover the truth and have no great desires to make a lot of money out of their research. The vast majority are extremely helpful and generous with their time. I think this forum is an example of how researchers are willing to collaborate in order to solve the “crime of the century”. They do so because they realize that we are playing for high stakes. The main thing that motivates us is a belief in democracy. The state must not be allowed to get away with covering up the removal of the elected leader in the world’s most powerful country.

John Simkin wrote that in another thread, and I found it appropriate to borrow.

With all of the various researchers that regularly post on this forum, I'd like to propose a combined effort in a project I have been mulling over for quite sometime. As some may know, my interest, or my goal, is to acquire some of the 'unpublished' or 'unaltered' source material relating to the events that transpired in Dealey Plaza. This may not necessarily be limited to 11/22, between 12:00, say, and 12:45pm CT - there would be plenty of interesting information, IMO, which could be gleaned from photos or films taken later that afternoon, or even the following day.

As per numerous references, and I could try to pull these all together here if anyone was interested, there exist a number of films and photos of the assassination which have not been made public. These could include the film made by the Babushka lady, the unknown woman photographer on the north side of Elm, the account of Gordon Arnold, Mrs. Beck of Lincoln park, the IBM close circuit account, the training film [seen in Japan?], the bus boy's account concerning what he witnessed at a Military funtion for high brass where one of the films was shown that showed the assassin, the reference in Murder in Dealey Plaza concerning a film seen by Rich DellaRosa, the Edward F. Bray documents, the account of the live feed and the Army having participate in making a video, etc. I have a few more if anyone is interested.

Additionally, there is eBay, which infrequently offers photos which have never before seen the light-of-day. Most recently, this includes a polaroid taken of the Lincoln as it sped towards Parkland. I was unable to acquire it, as the reserve was too high. There is also the story of Jay Skaggs. I'm sure Gary Mack could add a few more as well.

Point being - there is material out there - whether it is as I have suggested before, under wraps, held for insurance, in the possession of individuals in Government who have held it for one reason or other, taken by witnesses that do not recognize it's value, etc. - regardless...there is more to be had beyond that which IMO is the sanitized, approved and many times altered record.

I wrote twice to Larry Flynt, hoping that he may be persuaded to offer a substantial reward for such material, but received no response. Possibly he has learned his lesson in this regard in the past, or maybe I failed to get by his filters.

What I was thinking was to get together a group of researchers for the sole purpose of obtaining some of these materials. One idea I had was to pool together some resources, and divide and conquer. One method would be to place want ads in Newspapers throughout the Country, offering $$$ for 'your unpublished films or photos, taken on, or shortly after, 11/22/63 - in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, TX. My thinking was to run this advertisement in the following cities:

Washington, DC - first. Tempted to add a bit on unaltered and original photos for this city specifically. The original backyard photo, for example, sans Lee Oswald's head. An original Zapruder. Etc.

El Paso, Texas

Dallas, Texas

Salt Lake City, Utah

Phoenix, Arizona

Los Angeles, California

Oxnard or Ventura, California

Chicago, IL

Miami, Florida

Las Vegas, Nevada

and perhaps a few other cities.

Would this be of interest to anyone? I was considering other methods beyond the newspaper advertisement, perhaps a reward on a website, etc., but thought that the newspaper concept would be the first phase. I am always open to suggestions and other recommendations.

One big problem, of course, is going to be coming up with the cash to purchase the material, should something turn up - but we could burn that bridge when we came to it.

However, we'd all need to be agreed that results would be posted here to the forum. There wouldn't be any profit or ROI - this would all be above board and for the purpose of revealing the truth, and unveiling the hypocrisy.

Let me know what you think. If my CT is accurate, then there should still be some Government officials, retired or otherwise, that may be looking for just such an opportunity to relieve them of the burden of the guilt they have felt, for 41 years.

- lee

PS - good example - this one is on eBay now - why is Greer's door open?

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wonderful idea Lee, I wonder if it could be extended to all media. For example recordings of radio broadcasts. Some of these were made by stations in other places by ringing a dallas local person and asking them to place the phone next to a radio, so a recording might exist in some surprising places. That photo is a good example. Not only the door, but also it gives a good view of seating locations etc. Many photos regarded as useless by others may contain just the info looked for by someone else. Robin Unger has a superb collection on his site. I would also want to see those photos discarded because of some fault but the negatives may still exist and one mans rubbish is anothers treasure.

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wonderful idea Lee, I wonder if it could be extended to all media. For example recordings of radio broadcasts. Some of these were made by stations in other places by ringing a dallas local person and asking them to place the phone next to a radio, so a recording might exist in some surprising places. That photo is a good example. Not only the door, but also it gives a good view of seating locations etc. Many photos regarded as useless by others may contain just the info looked for by someone else. Robin Unger has a superb collection on his site. I would also want to see those photos discarded because of some fault but the negatives may still exist and one mans rubbish is anothers treasure.

That's a good point John - and by very interesting coincidence, something similar that I was thinking about only today. Perhaps one of the films made in Dealey Plaza had sound, or perhaps someone present had some form of device that recorded sound - just speculation.

Also - I welcome input gladly - we could expand upon this concept to include documents - not just photos or films. Additionally, given the nature of the beast, unaltered autopsy photos/films.

As per the account of Mack White, he saw men on the fire escape of the DalTex on 11/23, with equipment, surveying the plaza. A photo of that would be very interesting. Also, I would like to see if we can't get the remainder of the photos taken by Norman Similas.

One more point which would need to be included: 'Anonymity guaranteed.' If anyone would like to participate, that would have to be understood.

Perhaps we could host a film on a website, and simply provide a link here on Simkin's forum.

Robin Unger's site is indeed phenomenal. I'd like to get his input here.

- lee

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I have found most researchers to be motivated by the best of intentions. They want to discover the truth and have no great desires to make a lot of money out of their research. The vast majority are extremely helpful and generous with their time. I think this forum is an example of how researchers are willing to collaborate in order to solve the “crime of the century”. They do so because they realize that we are playing for high stakes. The main thing that motivates us is a belief in democracy. The state must not be allowed to get away with covering up the removal of the elected leader in the world’s most powerful country.

John Simkin wrote that in another thread, and I found it appropriate to borrow.

With all of the various researchers that regularly post on this forum, I'd like to propose a combined effort in a project I have been mulling over for quite sometime. As some may know, my interest, or my goal, is to acquire some of the 'unpublished' or 'unaltered' source material relating to the events that transpired in Dealey Plaza. This may not necessarily be limited to 11/22, between 12:00, say, and 12:45pm CT - there would be plenty of interesting information, IMO, which could be gleaned from photos or films taken later that afternoon, or even the following day.

As per numerous references, and I could try to pull these all together here if anyone was interested, there exist a number of films and photos of the assassination which have not been made public. These could include the film made by the Babushka lady, the unknown woman photographer on the north side of Elm, the account of Gordon Arnold, Mrs. Beck of Lincoln park, the IBM close circuit account, the training film [seen in Japan?], the bus boy's account concerning what he witnessed at a Military funtion for high brass where one of the films was shown that showed the assassin, the reference in Murder in Dealey Plaza concerning a film seen by Rich DellaRosa, the Edward F. Bray documents, the account of the live feed and the Army having participate in making a video, etc. I have a few more if anyone is interested.

Additionally, there is eBay, which infrequently offers photos which have never before seen the light-of-day. Most recently, this includes a polaroid taken of the Lincoln as it sped towards Parkland. I was unable to acquire it, as the reserve was too high. There is also the story of Jay Skaggs. I'm sure Gary Mack could add a few more as well.

Point being - there is material out there - whether it is as I have suggested before, under wraps, held for insurance, in the possession of individuals in Government who have held it for one reason or other, taken by witnesses that do not recognize it's value, etc. - regardless...there is more to be had beyond that which IMO is the sanitized, approved and many times altered record.

I wrote twice to Larry Flynt, hoping that he may be persuaded to offer a substantial reward for such material, but received no response. Possibly he has learned his lesson in this regard in the past, or maybe I failed to get by his filters.

What I was thinking was to get together a group of researchers for the sole purpose of obtaining some of these materials. One idea I had was to pool together some resources, and divide and conquer. One method would be to place want ads in Newspapers throughout the Country, offering $$$ for 'your unpublished films or photos, taken on, or shortly after, 11/22/63 - in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, TX. My thinking was to run this advertisement in the following cities:

Washington, DC - first. Tempted to add a bit on unaltered and original photos for this city specifically. The original backyard photo, for example, sans Lee Oswald's head. An original Zapruder. Etc.

El Paso, Texas

Dallas, Texas

Salt Lake City, Utah

Phoenix, Arizona

Los Angeles, California

Oxnard or Ventura, California

Chicago, IL

Miami, Florida

Las Vegas, Nevada

and perhaps a few other cities.

Would this be of interest to anyone? I was considering other methods beyond the newspaper advertisement, perhaps a reward on a website, etc., but thought that the newspaper concept would be the first phase. I am always open to suggestions and other recommendations.

One big problem, of course, is going to be coming up with the cash to purchase the material, should something turn up - but we could burn that bridge when we came to it.

However, we'd all need to be agreed that results would be posted here to the forum. There wouldn't be any profit or ROI - this would all be above board and for the purpose of revealing the truth, and unveiling the hypocrisy.

Let me know what you think. If my CT is accurate, then there should still be some Government officials, retired or otherwise, that may be looking for just such an opportunity to relieve them of the burden of the guilt they have felt, for 41 years.

- lee

PS - good example - this one is on eBay now - why is Greer's door open?

---------------------------

Lee:

Greer is using the door to force the crowd back onto the sidewalk. He and other drivers used this technique, especially in cases where moving the Limo more to the right was blocked by a motorcycl/outrider cop. It always worked. Notice how close the crowd is to the car.

GPH

___________________________________

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Lee:

Greer is using the door to force the crowd back onto the sidewalk. He and other drivers used this technique, especially in cases where moving the Limo more to the right was blocked by a motorcycl/outrider cop. It always worked. Notice how close the crowd is to the car.

GPH

___________________________________

Thank you Mr. Hemming.

I certainly would not have figured that out on my own.

Just as an aside, I would very much like to highlight the fact, that, speaking for myself and I hope a large number of other forum members, that I would hope that you would be so kind as to ignore certain disparaging comments made by some forum members. I, for one, accept the the term 'drooler' and appreciate anything and everything that you have to say/contribute of great import and significance. IMO, it's an honor to see you here, FWIW.

- lee

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This case is like the cure for cancer - if every researcher pooled their sources together, we'd have this thing solved by now, but everyone wants to be the one to solve the JFK case. It's my personal POV to try to help fellow researchers like I've been helped, as well as finding the truth.

This sounds like an amazing idea, though.

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I had an idea several years ago of everyone collaborating on a "documentary" - which would appear to be something of a "trade show" (replete with small wandering crowds of inquisitive citizens) - with various researchers manning "booths" and within a small frame of time would present their new evidence and theories which have come forth over the last decades which the general public may not necessarily be aware of. The "crowd" would move from presentation to presentation. Only the best and most powerfully revealing info would "make the cut". At the time, the question of funding came up - and that seemed to quell the discussion. :D

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I had an idea several years ago of everyone collaborating on a "documentary" - which would appear to be something of a "trade show" (replete with small wandering crowds of inquisitive citizens) - with various researchers manning "booths" and within a small frame of time would present  their new evidence and theories which have come forth over the last decades which the general public may not necessarily be aware of.  The "crowd" would move from presentation to presentation.  Only the best and most powerfully revealing info would "make the cut".  At the time, the question of funding came up - and that seemed to quell the discussion. :D

If a project is "worthy" funding will find the project...

worthy = ROI is sufficent - read 60% after cost

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I had an idea several years ago of everyone collaborating on a "documentary" - which would appear to be something of a "trade show" (replete with small wandering crowds of inquisitive citizens) - with various researchers manning "booths" and within a small frame of time would present  their new evidence and theories which have come forth over the last decades which the general public may not necessarily be aware of.  The "crowd" would move from presentation to presentation.  Only the best and most powerfully revealing info would "make the cut".  At the time, the question of funding came up - and that seemed to quell the discussion. :D

If anyone here is seriously interested in a documentary, email me. I have been interested in a no punches pulled documentary for years.

I have access to all the equipment and would be willing to chat up a few Canadian Producers for the start up funds. My interest is not to make money but to tell the story from a different angle. If it were to get made and aired, the monies generated could perhaps go into more research.Money is not my concern.

I think the most important part of the whole big picture for most people is how the power structure really works. If you compare the Arbenz/United Fruit Co Coup to the JFK hit, you start to notice a number of stunning similarities in how the "machine" works.

I think people would start to see the case in a different light if the right comparisons were made and the obvious red herrings treated as such.

The thing to consider with a doc is clearance for stills, films and interviews.

In some cases those things either cost money for the rights or cost in terms of content and by that I mean "you can use this if you adhere to the single nutjob theory".

Another thing to consider is that by the JFK researchers doing the project themselves, you don't have to pay Non JFK researchers to research.

But again, email me if any of you are interested.

I have a broadcast capable edit suite in my home I would gladly donate to such a cause.

Cheers everyone.

Dobson.

If there is anything I can offer, let me know.

Edited by Blair Dobson
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Due to certain sources within this community, I think a few people wouldn't see issue with their pictures & film being used.  I think the only thing that might cost much would be the Zapruder film, who knows how much that'd cost.

Well the Zapruder film as an example has been licensed and used by other sources so it shouldn't be that costly.

It might be possible to sub licence it from another program which is done all the time, foregoing fee's but it still requires clearance.

Here the problem is that sometimes the holders of the materials in question want cut approval etc and in those cases it is best to navigate around that.

I will makes some calls this week and see if there is some interest within my small circle of friends.

A list of what is out there already in terms of JFK Assassination DVD's and Videos would be useful as the first thing a producer is going to ask is "what's out there and what did it sell" and the other will be "doesn't pbs have a hundred of these already?"

The point of interest will be what is new and different about this version of events.

A friend of mine worked on a DVD for Oliver stone and I know someone in his camp will have some idea as to what he paid to use footage re; JFK/Dallas.

Ok now I'm geting interested....

Dobson....

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I know Jean Hill was very friendly to researchers, especially young ones ( sadly, I never got a chance to meet her ), I wonder if Moorman's the same way ( although she's very reluctant to talk now, but I would be too ).

During the 40th anniversary, the History Channel ran DAYS of JFK-related things. One night, I was using all 4 TVs in this house to tape things. I don't know what they've sold on DVD, but I remember the ratings for a few of them were quite high.

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I hope I am not thread jacking here...

For anyone interested, there are two documentaries by Mark Akbar and Co (SP) that are very interesting in terms of how the information itself is presented, and by this I mean they don't look and sound like wildlife documentaries.

One is The Corporation and the other is Manufacturing Consent.

These have both gone on to festivals and have been nominated for Acedemy Awards (for what that is worth) but have gone on to large audiences.

One thing I would hate to see is a super dry "I'm Bill Curtis" approach and I loathe the idea of seeing Michael Moore talking to Panhandling experts in Dealey Plaza while buying a hotdog...

PBS had a pretty even handed Doc on the Banana War a few months back and it was pretty informative but again, kinda dry.

An aside, John Simkin would be very useful provided he has time, as he seems to have a very good handle on historical timelines and has a pretty cohesive approach towards things in my opinion, which most filmmakers/producers don't have. There seems to me to be an awfully large amount of qualified people here to undertake such a project.

It's really just a question of peoples time I suppose.

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