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Elizabeth Cole - prior knowledge


Steve Thomas
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In 1975, Elizabeth Cole told the FBI that in the first week of November, 1963 she attended a Foreign Students Convention in New Jersey.

While there, she overheard a telephone conversation between a Cuban student and an unknown third party. In the phone conversation, the Cuban student related that JFK was going to be assassinated. The date of the assassination, the City of Dallas and a book company were also mentioned.

Cole said that she called the FBI when she returned to NYC, but never heard back from them.

You can read the details here:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...32&relPageId=54

It is alleged that the name of the Cuban student overheard by Miss Cole has the same last name as that of a Cuban picked up and released in Dallas on 11/22/63.

See here:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...2&relPageId=112

Steve Thomas

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Hi Steve,

That is most interesting. I have not seen that report before.

It might be interesting to note that a young man by the name of Fermin Degoicoechea (aka George Perril), Bay of Pigs veteran and one who was critical of JFK and what happened during the invasion, came to Dallas from New York City during September of 1963 just after the DRE members clashed with members of the FPCC. He then attended the University of Dallas at the same time Sarita Odio was there.

Fermin did travel back to NYC at the beginning of November 1963 for a student conference. He also had friends that travelled up from Miami, Juan Manuel Salvat and Joaquin Martinez de Pinillos.

Fermin was the DRE Secretary for Military Affairs who secured weapons through J. T. Masen.

I started to research Fermin several months ago. I tracked him down in Miami and tried to organize an interview only to discover that he had passed away about 2 months ago.

I wonder if Fermin was the one Elizabeth Cole heard on the telephone?

James

Edited by James Richards
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It might be interesting to note that a young man by the name of Fermin Degoicoechea (aka George Perril), Bay of Pigs veteran and one who was critical of JFK and what happened during the invasion, came to Dallas from New York City during September of 1963 just after the DRE members clashed with members of the FPCC. He then attended the University of Dallas at the same time Sarita Odio was there.

Fermin did travel back to NYC at the beginning of November 1963 for a student conference.

James,

Cole said that the man she overheard was a student from Farleigh Dickinson, which is in New Jersey, main campus near NYC. If you can tie Fermin to that school someway (are you sure he was enrolled at the U of Dallas?), then I would think you've found the man she overheard.

Ron

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Hi Ron,

Fermin's brother-in-law confirmed that he attended the University of Dallas. I also believe that Ray and Mary Fontaine in their book, 'Oswald Talked' puts him there as well.

It is going to be difficult to tie Fermin to Farleigh Dickinson as since his death, no one is talking.

James

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  • 9 months later...

The story of Elizabeth Cole was also mentioned in the Foreknowldge Thread.

"During the (1974) conversation between Miss Cole and Special Agent William E. Kelly, when Miss Cole mentioned that the student from FDU was Cuban, she stated that this probably did not mean anything that the student was Cuban." (MFA p. 118 of 322) FBI report f 12/18/74

SA FBI William Kelly - is mentined in the recently published book "The Tamali Squad - Miami Vice - The Cuban Project - Castro, Kennedy & the FBI's Tamale Squad" (Palgrove, MacMilan), by Peter Pavia.

This guy is no relation to me, as my father was a Camden, N.J. police Det./Lt., but he could be the same FBI agent who worked with the Cubans in Florida.

BK

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ron,

It might be interesting to note that a young man by the name of Fermin Degoicoechea (aka George Perril), Bay of Pigs veteran and one who was critical of JFK and what happened during the invasion, came to Dallas from New York City during September of 1963 just after the DRE members clashed with members of the FPCC. He then attended the University of Dallas at the same time Sarita Odio was there.

Fermin did travel back to NYC at the beginning of November 1963 for a student conference.

James,

Cole said that the man she overheard was a student from Farleigh Dickinson, which is in New Jersey, main campus near NYC. If you can tie Fermin to that school someway (are you sure he was enrolled at the U of Dallas?), then I would think you've found the man she overheard.

Ron

I tried to find their yearbooks online, to no avail.

Anyone on the Forum ffrom that area of New Jersey who would be willing to go to the University Library to look at 1963 yearbooks?

Steve Thomas

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Ron,

It might be interesting to note that a young man by the name of Fermin Degoicoechea (aka George Perril), Bay of Pigs veteran and one who was critical of JFK and what happened during the invasion, came to Dallas from New York City during September of 1963 just after the DRE members clashed with members of the FPCC. He then attended the University of Dallas at the same time Sarita Odio was there.

Fermin did travel back to NYC at the beginning of November 1963 for a student conference.

James,

Cole said that the man she overheard was a student from Farleigh Dickinson, which is in New Jersey, main campus near NYC. If you can tie Fermin to that school someway (are you sure he was enrolled at the U of Dallas?), then I would think you've found the man she overheard.

Ron

I tried to find their yearbooks online, to no avail.

Anyone on the Forum ffrom that area of New Jersey who would be willing to go to the University Library to look at 1963 yearbooks?

Steve Thomas

Not to split hairs but for the sake of clarity, namebase has the spelling as:

FERMIN SANCHEZ DE GOICOCHEA

Searching NARA Under the above name resulted in nothing; George Perrel however, resulted in three hits; He appears to be associated [indirectly?] with John Thomas Masen

See

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/14617/jfksnew.txt

All three doc's fall between 11/1/63 to 11/29/63.

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Hi Ron,

Fermin's brother-in-law confirmed that he attended the University of Dallas. I also believe that Ray and Mary Fontaine in their book, 'Oswald Talked' puts him there as well.

It is going to be difficult to tie Fermin to Farleigh Dickinson as since his death, no one is talking.

James

___________________________________________

James,

Could you possibly post a picture of Fermin or refer us to the thread on which his picture is already viewable? If so, and if Ms. Cole is still alive, maybe she can be asked if this is the same guy she overheard talking on the payphone...

FWIW and Thanks, Thomas

___________________________________________

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Hi Ron,

Fermin's brother-in-law confirmed that he attended the University of Dallas. I also believe that Ray and Mary Fontaine in their book, 'Oswald Talked' puts him there as well.

It is going to be difficult to tie Fermin to Farleigh Dickinson as since his death, no one is talking.

James

___________________________________________

James,

Could you possibly post a picture of Fermin or refer us to the thread on which his picture is already viewable? If so, and if Ms. Cole is still alive, maybe she can be asked if this is the same guy she overheard talking on the payphone...

FWIW and Thanks, Thomas

___________________________________________

Hi Thomas,

I know Lee Forman went down this road with Ms. Cole herself. I belive she had failing memory on the incident but I'm sure Lee will give you some details of his communication with her.

Fermin below.

James

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Robert,

Searching NARA Under the above name resulted in nothing; George Perrel however, resulted in three hits; He appears to be associated [indirectly?] with John Thomas Masen

Masen told Frank Ellsworth that Rodriguez and George F. Parrel were leaders of the local DRE and also members of Alpha-66.

Masen told Ellsworth that George Parrel, an associate of Orcarberro, had also been trying to buy guns from him.

Masen told Ellsworth that Rodriguez and Parrel had made purchases from him; that they presently have a large cache of arms somewhere in Dallas; that he did not know the location.

SS Rowley Memorandum of 4/24/64 CD 853 page 3

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=4

Steve Thomas

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Hello Steve.

I managed to locate Elisabeth and exchanged with her at some great length - email and by phone. Unfortunately, she never made much of the incident - at that time or since. Her family didn't much like the Kennedys, even though they were Catholic. Some bizarre stuff which I was trying to figure out - I think Cole is back in prison again - as per her account, and that of a private investigator, she was bilked and defrauded out of millions of dollars that rightfully belonged to her [2003 timeframe and the present].

Here are some interesting bits and pieces.

- Raised and education primarily outside of the US [France and Canada].

- English was her second [or third] language.

- Mother a recluse - both Mother and Father from France, here due to some Political reasons unknown.

- Mother vehement anti-US - would not allow her daughter to associate with Americans.

- Elisabeth had both her undergraduate and Doctorate from McGill University [in Genetics] - same time that Ewen Cameron was working his mind control experiments.

- I don't know why I am adding this - Elisabeth was convinced that her Father was not her biological Father. She did her own DNA testing and proved that he was not. She demanded to know who her biological Father really was and her Mother refused to comment. I guess I am adding that because I have seen a pattern among MKULTRA victims that is similar.

- Elisabeth does not recall faces - as per her own words. She did not recognize Fermin's photo.

- The most Elisabeth could recall of the incident was that it was possible that the Cuban's last name began with a 'G.'

- Elisabeth insisted that she had contacted the local FBI office [NY or NJ] immediately following the incident, at the urging of her Mother - no record of any such report having been made.

- Ex-Senator Raymond Baker alleged that Cole's Mother told him that a Cuban student with the same last name [as the Cuban student witnessed by Elisabeth] was arrested and released in Dallas 11/22/63 - no record I was able to find, and Baker fails to document that name. All FBI reports fail to document the name of the Cuban student. Elisabeth had no idea how her Mother would have gotten this information - her Mother was a recluse. Elisabeth does not appear to have participated in the Raymond Baker meeting with her Mother in NY.

- lee

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Final observation - when Baker launched the FBI investigation into Cole's account in 1974, as per his letter [which can be seen on the Insurance scam thread], he had been searching for Miss Cole for 'several years.' It is unfathomable to me personally to understand how he would have learned of Elisabeth Cole at all, if there was never any record of the incident made prior. Logically, you would have to assume that there would have had to have been such a record made - 'several years' prior to 1974 at any rate. I also assume that the source of the information may have come from the folks Baker was speaking with when he was prying open the investigation into the Insurance scams, back in the 1960s. That would perhaps include Phil T. White of the DOJ.

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Lee,

- Ex-Senator Raymond Baker alleged that Cole's Mother told him that a Cuban student with the same last name [as the Cuban student witnessed by Elisabeth] was arrested and released in Dallas 11/22/63 - no record I was able to find, and Baker fails to document that name.

My sister is a librarian in New Jersey. I've asked her to contact the Farleigh Dickinson University library folks to see if they have a 1963 yearbook.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Steve Thomas

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