CIA and Emails

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

And their "BOOKS" ??!! Library loads of re-run speculation, rumor, anonymous sources, and regurgitated "quotes?". ALL taken out of context and time-frame. And yet, they have the "Nads" to cite it all as scripture.

If the history on offer is incomplete, it is because those who claim to have undisclosed knowledge fail to disclose it. They make grandiose claims about not wishing to violate secrecy oaths, or not wishing to incur the wrath of those who may take offense at any disclosures, or to safeguard friends and their families, etc. Or, having decided to dip their toes in the water by making public assertions, they thereafter rely on the time-tested last refuge of a scoundrel: "I was misquoted" or "That's not what I meant" or "They got it all wrong." But in the final analysis, they offer nothing but critiques of those who try to render history in a way that the average lay person can understand. Outstanding contribution.

What a gang of gullible squatters we are forced to endure on this Internet !!

Actually, Gerry, nobody forces you to "endure" a damned thing. Sit in the backyard of your trailer allotment, have a cold beer and enjoy your golden years. Given the wholly insignificant value of what you've divulged over the past thirty-plus years, nobody will begrudge your decision, or miss your lack of a contribution.

And by the way, if you can't stand the incoming fire from those whom you detest, leave the field. It's really that simple. But then, to whom would you parade your bloated sense of self-importance?

GPH

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[Tim Carroll]

If the history on offer is incomplete, it is because those who claim to have undisclosed knowledge fail to disclose it. They make grandiose claims about not wishing to violate secrecy oaths, or not wishing to incur the wrath of those who may take offense at any disclosures, or to safeguard friends and their families, etc. Or, having decided to dip their toes in the water by making public assertions, they thereafter rely on the time-tested last refuge of a scoundrel: "I was misquoted" or "That's not what I meant" or "They got it all wrong." But in the final analysis, they offer nothing but critiques of those who try to render history in a way that the average lay person can understand.

Amazing, isn't it, that someone who has peddled varying stories for decades, now rants about "Library loads of re-run speculation, rumor, anonymous sources, and regurgitated 'quotes'?" History is a sacred bequeathment to future generations of our own children. That it has been hijacked by these mercenary wannabe smut-peddling barbarians is no source of pride for anyone. Gerry whines about the "gang of gullible squatters [he and Purvis (coincidentally the two oldest and most misleading avatar photos here)] are forced to endure on this Internet," when he still has his Soldier of Fortune magazine to curl up beside. Why can't people who actually care about history and education have their forum?

And by the way, if you [Gerry] can't stand the incoming fire from those whom you detest, leave the field. It's really that simple. But then, to whom would you parade your bloated sense of self-importance?

He already left the field with his failure to perform. Someone stood up to him with facts and he withered like a piece of fruit. There may still be authors who are willing to use Gerry's stories to sell books (qualifying them as "metaphors"), but as a history forum, we can do better.

T.C.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Tim Carroll

[Terry Mauro]

If, as assumed, this references me, there are some of us who are too old and also could give a xxxx less as to proofreading and/or spellcheck to worry with what the likes of you think.

This isn't a matter of spellcheck, it's a matter of the valuation of education, which is regularly demeaned by this warmonger who right here admits that his photo is cowardly and falsely youthful. Let's have some authenticity fromthis person who celebrates atop the graves of those who've been lost, dismisses those who have done the losing, and gleefully relishes killing as a precursor to the development of a well-trained civilian militia.

T.C.

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admits that his photo is cowardly and falsely youthful

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First off, despite what many may or may not think, I did not chose the particular photo to post.

Secondly, in event it has taken you this long to come to the realization that as a veteran of Vietnam, that I must be somewhat old, it demonstrates the lack of your understandings of time and space.

Lastly, I am still waiting enthusiastically for your to post all about the heroics of your "International Relations" conflicts and accomplishments in order to complete a comparative analysis of "cowards".

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this person who celebrates atop the graves of those who've been lost, dismisses those who have done the losing,

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In event that I do take the time to participate in celebration of the death, then it is with those who asked that their death be so remembered. Which unique personal characteristics you have obviously not been endowed with.

One can sit around and weep and/or cry about the deceased (for whatever reason) for the remainder of their days. It is not likely to win the next engagement and/or prepare one for the remainder of life, whatever the cause of death.

It is those such as yourself who degrade the sacrifice that these servicemen & women died for, or even merely served for.

It is those such as yourself who sit behind the security of your "International Relations" expertise and expouse that they either died for no reason or else they died because our government was wrong to have sent them to their death.

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http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/pr...ooleyseanm.html

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Having attended the Church portion of Sean's funeral, some of us who did survive "our war", recognize what a loss to this country the death of those such as Sean are.

1. A Registered Nurse at Singing River Hospital, Pascagoula, MS

2. An individual with family and one who knew where he was going in life.

3. An individual who was offered the opportunity to transfer into a medical unit and utilize his RN experience in a "rear echelon" area as opposed to the Combat Engineer assignment which he had with his unit.

4. An individual who declined the "safe" route and chose his fellow unit members and assignment rather than to elect the safe RN/medical slot.

An individual who never asked, and wanted none to cry and weep over his decisions.

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You, and those such as you degrade the honor of Sean Cooley, all the while attempting to convince that you know more about what is right for this country than the entire US Government and the President of the US, not to include many other foreign nations.

So, continue to sit safely behind whatever it is that you hide, and wave your flag! You certainly have earned the right to do so.

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"You, and those such as you degrade the honor of Sean Cooley, all the while attempting to convince that you know more about what is right for this country than the entire US Government and the President of the US, not to include many other foreign nations.

So, continue to sit safely behind whatever it is that you hide, and wave your flag! You certainly have earned the right to do so."

No man, that's not what we're doing or wishing to do, at all!

How many more young and vital leaders of tomorrow must be sacrificed on the field of battle. A battle certainly not of the obvious integrity fought in the fetid trenches of Europe, or upon the lonely rocks of Iwo Jima, or the death marches from Bataan? Battles fought in the name of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, for all mankind. A battle for which the fascist, bastard, nazis and imperialistic Japan were determined to maim, mutilate, and destroy the very meaning of. This was supposed to have been the war to end all wars, but we were tricked into believing that communists of Red China and North Korea, were now knocking on the proverbial "iron curtain", Churchill so aptly termed. But, this was all that the fascist elements of our own government and Great Britain needed in order to decide that another war needed to be fought in order to keep the economy going. But, we'll just dress it up in a big red bow to scare the bejesus out of the citizenry, throw in a little HUAC to intimidate any leftist leaning bleeding hearts into cowering and keeping their mouths shut. All of this war bullxxxx is nothing more than the manufactured industrialized diseased mindset of the handfull of bankers, and oilmen who have always been in power and continue to base their colonialistic World Bank and IMF escapades upon exploiting these debtor nations. Third World backwaters they've created principally for the purpose of looting any resources they may consider eminent domaining in the name of ENERGY. Energy for whom? Certainly not the people whose lands they've taken and desecrated. Meanwhile, if the truth be known, the more insidious aspect of this whole charade is the drug trade which turns out to be a lucrative sidebar used to supplement the money earned from draining the diminishing returns of oil from the remaining indigenous regions of the planet. And, you'll always have Citibank [Rockefeller-Morgan] to launder it for you.

So, don't give me that degradation of honor crap because it ain't flying with me, pal. Vietnam was an evil, dishonest, WRONGFUL excuse to make money, to build Hughies and Jet Rangers, and to more than likely fly heroin as well as bodies in and out of the jungle. Keep them stoned and keep them controlled. Your elitist pig commanders could give a flying xxxx about Joe Blow's, or better yet, Little Black Sambo's right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. The only happiness they're concerned with are their own bank accounts, and their goddamned bottom lines. You don't amount to jack xxxx, man! You're just another body bag, if that's what your fate comes down to. YOU, of all people should know that by now! If I've said it a million times, MONEY TALKS - BULLxxxx WALKS, in plain American English.

Poor Sean, God bless him. My heart goes out to his family. I, IN NO WAY, dishonor his memory. He thought he was doing the right thing for his country. And, all the rest of these young mens' hearts, which are thought of as nothing more than a commodity to these murdering fascists in D.C. This ain't a war, it's a mockery, just like the rest of those idiots hell-bent on dismantling and reassembling the constitution to reflect the whims of their CEO's, corporate and otherwise. Who else could be minding the store, anyway? They don't call it "The Company" for nothing.

What government? We haven't seen any reasonable fascimile of American government since it fell in November of 1963.

[Chris Newton]

I thought John S. had started this thread about the CIA and our email.

Is it possible that some people’s emails are being redirected so that they can be read by the intelligence services before they are delivered to the intended person?

It's kind of entertaining to see how it got so off track.

I'll take a moment to acknowledge some of your posts before I try to get it back on track:

To Frank Agbat : thanks for the clear and easily understood post on a not so easily understood system: Microsoft Exchange.

To Tom P: I've served in both the RA and NG in combat arms (post vietnam era) and I still believe that the NG is treated like a "red haired stepchild" by the RA. I don't see any evidence that this is changing. That some NG units have performed admirably in Iraq is a testament to their NCO's and Officers learning the ropes quickly (most of the time the hard way). The porcelain soldiers are still up to their old tricks. Can you cite one (non REMF) NG CPT or LT who was satisfied with their pre-deployment or in theatre training, TO & E, INTEL and chain of command?

I forgot who made the "scoundrel" comment so here's the real quote: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." -- Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775.

....... and I don't see what Vietnam, Afghanistan, patriotism or the rest of this rot has to do with our email.

So I found this for those of you that want to learn what the NSA and CIA are doing with our email. Note the "Featured Presentation" link on the right that opens a PDF. This document describes how a CIA analyst would narrow down news of interest. Simply substitute "email" for "news" and you'll have an idea of how they analyze this data. keep in mind the example shown is for 1000+ plus documents and we'd need to multiply that by the nth degree to represent email.

http://www.spotfire.com/solutions/government/

Nonetheless, I think that our enemies are too clever to use email for the important communications. If I were them, I'd use a MMORG to chat instantly to one or more listeners and leave no paper or electronic trail save a "packet". This would be much more secure. For the CIA or NSA to sniff packets across the entire width and breadth of today's internet - that would be a daunting task.

Chris

[Tim Carroll]

I thought John S. had started this thread about the CIA and our email.... It's kind of entertaining to see how it got so off track....

Given my participation in what may be construed as "off track" discourse, let me provide an example of the kind of post that I consider illustrative of the mindset that has brought us this domestic spying. Here's a direct response to John's originating post:

The United Kingdom has much to thank that many of you were not around during the "ultra secret" days. No doubt, you would have filed suit against your own intelligence system's monitering of German & Japanese transmissions. And in that regards, please attempt to fight some war, at some point in time, with only the most basic and limited intelligence available. See what language you get to finally speak (provided you are still living) at the end of the war....

Lastly, might I recommend that those of you in these various foreign lands, get your own houses in order before you make an attempt to tell the American public how to manage their own household. That you fully appear to have a high degree of dissatisfaction with your own house (government), and would, it appears, like nothing better than to blame your problems on the mean ole US/CIA; etc; then might I recommend that you straighten your own linen prior to attempting to straighten ours. Your "systems" have failed!

And in so doing, it has taken the American System, as well as many american lives to bail you and your countries out and provided you with the luxeries and time to sit around and complain about the system which gave you these freedoms. In event you wish to change the system, then do so. However, you will not change it by sitting around and crying and whining on the internet about the injustices in the world. Be a soldier; a statesman; an attorney with a consience; whatever.

However, might I recommend that you cease being a hypocrite, who has taken full advantage of the opportunities which these systems have provided to you, your forefathers; and ultimately your children and grandchildren, yet you do little other than to cry and complain about the injusticies and inequities of the system off which you sponge your existence. It is referred to as a Parasite over here in this part of the ocean.

When this thread was thusly taken "off track," I didn't touch it, repulsed though I was. It was when the Purv insistently trivialized the deaths of young people dying today in the interest of a goose-steppingly gooberish world view that anyone so unpatriotic as to be unsupportive of throwing the U.S. Constitution in the trash bin deserves to have their own family somehow victimized by the very thugs that only thugs like he and Hemming can protect us all, including the parasites on the other "part of the ocean," from, that I took exception.

T.C.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

If, as assumed, this references me, there are some of us who are too old and also could give a xxxx less as to proofreading and/or spellcheck to worry with what the likes of you think.

This isn't a matter of spellcheck, it's a matter of the valuation of education, which is regularly demeaned by this warmonger who right here admits that his photo is cowardly and falsely youthful. Let's have some authenticity from this person who celebrates atop the graves of those who've been lost, dismisses those who have done the losing, and gleefully relishes killing as a precursor to the development of a well-trained civilian militia.

T.C.

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The Purv wouldn't have lasted one day in that environment.

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In event you would like to check my GPA at Langston University, Langston, OK, let me know and perhaps I can make some arrangements for you to do so.

Not unlike most other items of actual life experience, one can not know what it feels like to be a "minority" unless willing to place themselves into that position.

And, one can not understand another race and/or sociological order unless one is willing to expend the time and effort to get to know them and their views.

http://www.petersons.com/blackcolleges/pro....asp?sponsor=13

Perhaps Dr. Hale, a close family friend, as well as the other professors and students at Langston would have some disagreement with your comments.

But then again, if I actually had a dog, no doubt he would have adequate sense to also know that you really speak of little in which you actually have any true experience.

PS. My wife was the first WHITE female graduate of Langston, for whatever that may or may not be worth.

[Chris Newton]

T.C. - Don't bother. You think Tom Purvis or Gerry Hemming has a seventeen year old kid in high school being hounded day and night by recruiters? Doubtful. Last recruiter at my door -I told him he had two minutes to get off my property or my size twelve boot would be permanently up his ass.

Some old vets love war and mayhem, some don't. I don't.

I recommend this PFC's blog if you want the inside scoop:

http://americanshort-timer.blogspot.com/20...-war-whine.html

[Tim Carroll]

If, as assumed, this references me, there are some of us who are too old and also could give a xxxx less as to proofreading and/or spellcheck to worry with what the likes of you think.

This isn't a matter of spellcheck, it's a matter of the valuation of education, which is regularly demeaned by this warmonger who right here admits that his photo is cowardly and falsely youthful.

In event you would like to check my GPA at Langston University, Langston, OK, let me know and perhaps I can make some arrangements for you to do so.

Unresponsive to the Purv's unrelenting attacks on the value of education, the value of life, and the honor of dissent.

T.C.

[Tim Carroll]

You think Tom Purvis or Gerry Hemming has a seventeen year old kid in high school being hounded day and night by recruiters? Doubtful. Last recruiter at my door -I told him he had two minutes to get off my property or my size twelve boot would be permanently up his ass. Some old vets love war and mayhem, some don't. I don't.

I recommend this PFC's blog if you want the inside scoop:http://americanshort-timer.blogspot.com/20...-war-whine.html

That was an interesting blog. I never heard the term "stop loss" until this Iraq business:

We got, by estimates, close to forty-thousand plus Joes involuntarily extended, stop lossed they call it now, cause dropping INVOLUNTARILY extended day after day after day I suppose places too much emphasis on the fact that a whole buncha us got stuck in the xxxx INVOLUNTARILY... cause, for all you non-incarcerated types, the usual nomenclature for being stuck in the service beyond your time is--used to be--INVOLUNTARY extension. Cept they had to twist the rules all outta whack and xxxx to keep the machine all lubed and oiled and chugging and belching and churning out the mayhem, and somehow, rather mysteriously it seems to me at least, with all that good ol' troop lovin' sh*t goin' on back home they couldna find the 40K + dudes and dudettes to get us squared away and outta this mess. Thanks for the love yo.

And I know I know, spare me the retort... "Dude, is what you signed up for." Right. I signed up for THIS. Sadist's circus. Marquis de Sade's Head-Chopping Ball-Blasting Brigade. Lemme assure you, if I had read some short-timer's Internet lament and that f***ker would've had the common decency to point out that the Army is more like a three-ring circus butcher-shop motor vehicles prison typa clustertastrophy I mighta thought twice before lending my body to the cause of someone else's mocracy-buildin' wet dreams.

The blog goes on to describe the sense of incarceration many of today's trainees for tomorrow's civilian militia are feeling. In my day there were no recruiters, just the draft - the next step....

T.C.

You think Tom Purvis or Gerry Hemming has a seventeen year old kid in high school being hounded day and night by recruiters? Doubtful. Last recruiter at my door -I told him he had two minutes to get off my property or my size twelve boot would be permanently up his ass. Some old vets love war and mayhem, some don't. I don't.

I recommend this PFC's blog if you want the inside scoop:http://americanshort-timer.blogspot.com/20...-war-whine.html

That was an interesting blog. I never heard the term "stop loss" until this Iraq business. The blog correctly characterizes it as a breach of contract, just as domestic spying is a breach of the constitution:

We got, by estimates, close to forty-thousand plus Joes involuntarily extended, stop lossed they call it now, cause dropping INVOLUNTARILY extended day after day after day I suppose places too much emphasis on the fact that a whole buncha us got stuck in the xxxx INVOLUNTARILY... cause, for all you non-incarcerated types, the usual nomenclature for being stuck in the service beyond your time is--used to be--INVOLUNTARY extension. Cept they had to twist the rules all outta whack and xxxx to keep the machine all lubed and oiled and chugging and belching and churning out the mayhem, and somehow, rather mysteriously it seems to me at least, with all that good ol' troop lovin' sh*t goin' on back home they couldna find the 40K + dudes and dudettes to get us squared away and outta this mess. Thanks for the love yo.

And I know I know, spare me the retort... "Dude, is what you signed up for." Right. I signed up for THIS. Sadist's circus. Marquis de Sade's Head-Chopping Ball-Blasting Brigade. Lemme assure you, if I had read some short-timer's Internet lament and that f***ker would've had the common decency to point out that the Army is more like a three-ring circus butcher-shop motor vehicles prison typa clustertastrophy I mighta thought twice before lending my body to the cause of someone else's mocracy-buildin' wet dreams.

The blog goes on to describe the sense of incarceration many of today's trainees for tomorrow's civilian militia are feeling. In my day there were no recruiters, just the draft - the next step....

T.C.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I thought John S. had started this thread about the CIA and our email.

Is it possible that some people’s emails are being redirected so that they can be read by the intelligence services before they are delivered to the intended person?

It's kind of entertaining to see how it got so off track.

I'll take a moment to acknowledge some of your posts before I try to get it back on track:

To Frank Agbat : thanks for the clear and easily understood post on a not so easily understood system: Microsoft Exchange.

To Tom P: I've served in both the RA and NG in combat arms (post vietnam era) and I still believe that the NG is treated like a "red haired stepchild" by the RA. I don't see any evidence that this is changing. That some NG units have performed admirably in Iraq is a testament to their NCO's and Officers learning the ropes quickly (most of the time the hard way). The porcelain soldiers are still up to their old tricks. Can you cite one (non REMF) NG CPT or LT who was satisfied with their pre-deployment or in theatre training, TO & E, INTEL and chain of command?

I forgot who made the "scoundrel" comment so here's the real quote: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." -- Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775.

....... and I don't see what Vietnam, Afghanistan, patriotism or the rest of this rot has to do with our email.

So I found this for those of you that want to learn what the NSA and CIA are doing with our email. Note the "Featured Presentation" link on the right that opens a PDF. This document describes how a CIA analyst would narrow down news of interest. Simply substitute "email" for "news" and you'll have an idea of how they analyze this data. keep in mind the example shown is for 1000+ plus documents and we'd need to multiply that by the nth degree to represent email.

http://www.spotfire.com/solutions/government/

Nonetheless, I think that our enemies are too clever to use email for the important communications. If I were them, I'd use a MMORG to chat instantly to one or more listeners and leave no paper or electronic trail save a "packet". This would be much more secure. For the CIA or NSA to sniff packets across the entire width and breadth of today's internet - that would be a daunting task.

Chris

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To Tom P: I've served in both the RA and NG in combat arms (post vietnam era) and I still believe that the NG is treated like a "red haired stepchild" by the RA. I don't see any evidence that this is changing. That some NG units have performed admirably in Iraq is a testament to their NCO's and Officers learning the ropes quickly (most of the time the hard way). The porcelain soldiers are still up to their old tricks. Can you cite one (non REMF) NG CPT or LT who was satisfied with their pre-deployment or in theatre training, TO & E, INTEL and chain of command?

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Certainly "off-topic" as regards the CIA/email scenario, nevertheless:

As a former MS NG, who volunteered RA, and then went on to receive a Commission and serve in the Officer Corps, perhaps these experiences may count for something.

With the military draw-down after the Vietnam era, to congressional authorized active duty force size (RA/Regular Army Strength), US forces strength was considered to not be sufficiently adequate to maintain the level of commitments which were felt to be required for security.

Therefore, the "restructering" in which much of the Supply, Service, & Support units were re-designated to the Guard and Reserve, and Combat Arms positions were increased for the active duty.

In addition, this now meant that much of our "Combat Support" upon which our actual fighting forces rely, was now within those units which had to be either "called" up and/or mobilized.

As you have indicated, the NG received little respect, and to some extent, rightfully so.

Weekends drills every other week plus two weeks of "Summer Camp", hardly provides the necesssary training of individual personnel, not to mention the critical element of Command and Control.

Active duty Reserve forces were not much better, as they came together for some 30-days of training, once a year.

The "prepatory" phase of pre-training deployment has, in the history of US conflict, always been inadequate.

And even were it to occupy several months of intensive training, it is still all "staged" and "canned", and thus not anything like the unexpected items of actual warfare combat.

As you are no doubt aware, we all had the standing joke that there was no way that the enemy could ever figure out what we were doing, as we ourselves frequently did not know what we were doing, or why.

Frequently, the winner is merely the lesser of the confused of the two forces.

With so much of our military preparedness now located within the Reserve and National Guard forces, the US can in no way allow these forces to degenerate to a condition as existed, even in the 50's when these forces were activated for Korea.

The ill-preparedness and qualifications of these units during the Korean Conflict, sent many, many persons to their death due to all types of Command Echelon ignorance and failure.

As example, NG units from California, who did not even have winter type clothing, were sent to S. Korea, and believe me, this place gets quite cold.

Therein, lies the history of why we have placed a great amount of our military preparedness into the hands of our NG and reserve forces.

Therein, lies the reasons as to why these units have to be deployed for service, as well as the added necessity of having, in these forces, experience at all levels.

As a final note on the subject, the "errors" of the Vietnam type tour of duty in which the single individual was sent over to adapt to some unit in which he knew no one, etc. were fully examined and compared to previous military experiences.

It was found that the "unit integrity" of having known and worked together was a key element in the operational aspect of the unit as well as the personal commitment of the individual to his fellow soldiers and unit.

Those who continue to expouse the "Great" military industrial complex conspiracy have not bothered to check the facts and thus see that the actual full time active duty force of the US is really quite low by comparison to other periods in our history.

This is of course in line with the attempt to cease the highs and lows in the peaks of economic impact during periods of conflict.

And, although many on this forum are of some impression that the US Government does not know what it is doing, I place my money on the horse which has already sustained itself for in excess of the 200 years of our history.

And, only the future history can adequately be the judge of what occurs today.

[Chris Newton]

Mr Purvis, my experiences were similar except I began in the RA then left the Army for a few years and re-enlisted in the NG. (My primary MOS was 19K - M1 Tanks (RA) and secondary was MOS 11B - Infantry (NG))

I agree with all your points concerning the Reserve and National Guard but I think that a lot of the moves made by the powers that be just before and after the first Gulf War have put the Army in the predicament it finds itself in now. There was a great effort after the fall of the USSR to remodel the Regular Army into a smaller, faster force. For example - two of the armor battalions I served in no longer exist - each regiment they were in was paired down from four battalions to two. This has placed a greater burden on the Reserve and National Guard.

Kind of ironic to hear Rummy state "You gotta fight with what you got", in response to complaints that there aren't enough troops on the ground and they were under armored. Rummy himself was the chief architect of our current force.

My old NG unit - Florida's 124th Infantry has an outstanding record in Iraq - they may be the only unit that's served 18 straight months with no KIA. They returned last December. Ten years ago as a Platoon Sergeant I would have been hard pressed to make any predictions of that sort. For several years there Officers would show up; be introduced as our new LT; disappear to speak to the "old man" and would never be seen or heard from again. Senior NCO's would disappear to strip clubs when we were trying to conduct weekend drill. Equipment? Lets not go there. Vehicles? Only the Mortar Platoon had vehicles -we were old school, "straight leg" Infantry. Prepared? No way.

My first day in the National Guard I saluted a Major coming out of the armory, I stood there and held my salute as he walked by. Annoyed, he came back and said "Sergeant, we don't do that here". Still holding the salute, I said "Sir?". "Sergeant we don't salute here". "Sir, I'd understand if we were in the field but we're in the rear with the gear". He turned and walked away never even attempting a half hearted salute.

I see the military-industrial complex as those who profit from war material. To some extent that may include the "ring knockers" in the pentagon.

[John Geraghty]

John G., I have a question:

What part of the US Constitution guarantees ANY rights to NON-US citizens?

To the best of MY knowledge, the freedoms expressed by the US Constitution are guaranteed to US citizens, but not to citizens of any other nation...because the US has no authority over the citizens of any other nation. Thus, the First Amendment's guarantees of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, and the right to freely assemble don't apply to persons who remain in Germany, England, Australia, or elsewhere, as they are subject to the laws of their own land of domicile.

Or do I misunderstand the law?

Electronic communications constitute a world that didn't exist in 1789; I understand that. However, [as I understand the law] as a resident of England, John Simkin would have no standing to sue the US government for the violation of his freedom of speech, based upon intercepted communications that originated in England; but if said intercepted communications were directed to a citizen of the US, that US citizen would have grounds upon which to base a constitutional challenge, should he/she so choose.

In other words, I don't know of the existence of ANY international law guaranteeing freedom of speech...and, in an international transaction, the laws of one country don't always apply to residents of the other. [Example: international phone calls to the former Soviet Union in the 1960's were undoubtedly monitored by the Soviets; yet the fact that one party to the call may have been an American did not necessarily mean that American privacy rights applied.]

Therefore, unless John becomes an American citizen, or is based on American soil, US constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech do not necessarily apply...as US law has no jurisdiction over British citizens on British soil.

Laws governing international communications, to the best of my knowledge, would only apply to terms of treaties and memoranda of understanding between and among consenting individual nations; as far as I know, there is no universal, international guarantee of freedom of speech. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

Hi Mark,

If Johns emails are to a person in the US you are completely right. John mentioned that one of his emails that may have been read was to Cuba so that would mean they have no right to do so.

You are completely right my friend.

John

The United Kingdom has much to thank that many of you were not around during the "ultra secret" days.

No doubt, you would have filed suit against your own intelligence system's monitering of German & Japanese transmissions.

And in that regards, please attempt to fight some war,at some point in time, with only the most basic and limited intelligence available.

See what language you get to finally speak (provided you are still living) at the end of the war.

In the event that monitoring my personal email; telephone conversations; private mail; personal conversations; etc; etc; etc, and/or any other form of correspondence prevents:

1. Another "home grown" idiot such as Mr. McVey from the murder of innocent persons.

2. Prevents another 9/11.

3. Decreases the Iraqi casualties by ONE SINGLE person

Then the U.S. Government is free to entirely monitor anything I do and/or say.

As an American citizen who enjoys the rights and priviledges which this system has afforded, that is the least that I can do to assure the same system for my children and my grandchildren.

Why don't you ask a few of the survivors as well as the surviving dependents of some of the above, there response's to your claims.

Each and every item makes an attempt to blame a "breakdown" in the intelligence community.

This "breakdown" is directly related to the same type of legal system which provides the criminal element the necessary cover in which to operate behind.

Lastly, might I recommend that those of you in these various foreign lands, get your own houses in order before you make an attempt to tell the American public how to manage their own household.

That you fully appear to have a high degree of dissatisfaction with your own house (government), and would, it appears, like nothing better than to blame your problems on the mean ole US/CIA; etc;,

then might I recommend that you straighten your own linen prior to attempting to straighten ours.

Your "systems" have failed!

And in so doing, it has taken the American System, as well as many american lives to bail you and your countries out and provided you with the luxeries and time to sit around and complain about the system which gave you these freedoms.

In event you wish to change the system, then do so.

However, you will not change it by sitting around and crying and whining on the internet about the injustices in the world.

Be a soldier; a statesman; an attorney with a consience; whatever.

However, might I recommend that you cease being a hypocrite, who has taken full advantage of the opportunities which these systems have provided to you, your forefathers; and ultimately your children and grandchildren, yet you do little other than to cry and complain about the injusticies and inequities of the system off which you sponge your existence.

It is referred to as a Parasite over here in this part of the ocean.

There is and can never be any form of "perfect" government.

So long as we continue as a world of completely separate ideals; religious concepts; and humans with completely different variations of movitational goals, then the government which controls must do so for the general betterment of ALL.

No where does it say the betterment of "EACH AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON", which it could not achieve.

So, as soon as some undiscovered terrorist activity (home grown or otherwise) murders a few of your own children; direct relatives; friends; etc;., then come back and visit and discuss the real world situation as it currecntly exists, and what is required to counter these "REAL WORLD" threats.

Otherwise, go down to Orlando, FL and take up residence in the "Magic Tunnel" and/or be like the ostrich and stick your head in the sand and continue to remain obviously ignorant as to what the REAL WORLD situation currently is.

I am Irish and my country has never been 'bailed out' by the united States.

My point is that it is all well and good to monitor the correspondence of a suspected terror target (as long as there is sufficient evidence to make one suspicious), but that it is not in the interest of the general populace to have their rights eroded. I can quite confidently assume Thomas that you are definitely not a security threat to the United States government so they should have no reason to read your emails or any other communications you might make.

John suspected that it was possible that some of his emails wer intercepted, he is not a united States citizen, nor is he a threat to that government or its people, that is a major violation of his rights to freedom of speech.

John

The President and the Congress of the United States are entrusted with the "right", as well as the "responsibility" of insuring the safety of American citizens who are abroad, or located on our own soil.

When either "home grown" threats (aka citizens) within a host country, or immigrated elements within these countries pose any threat to American citizens located anywhere in the world, then our Government has the right and responsibility to take whatever actions it deems legal and necessary to protect those citizens.

We do not, and will not respect the soverignty of either a nation, or of the rights of individuals, who by virtue of their activities, pose a threat to US citizens, whether located at home or abroad.

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I can quite confidently assume Thomas that you are definitely not a security threat to the United States government so they should have no reason to read your emails or any other communications you might make.

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To the government as it currently exists, you are of course quite correct.

However, to crooked governments such as that of LBJ, RMN, Gerald Ford, etc; then americans such as myself pose the greatest threat of all.

And, with a new generation of combatants who are truly civillians but now have the experience of foreign service under their belt, the government of the US will be far more reluctant to continue along the various pathways in which it has gone astray.

We are a "civillian" army, and we will not tolerate a government that stands by with blinders on while other governments and/or persons plot and carry out their activities which randomly kill american citizens.

And, if at any time the Government of the United States allows such to happen, then it is time for the "civillian army" to exercise those rights as given to us within the constitution of the United States.

In event that this government ceases to represent the "will of the people", then it is time for a new direction and new government.

Thankfully, our nation has recognized that the sensible and peaceful means to such change lies in the electoral process.

Nevertheless, we, as american citizens, have the constitutional right to dispose of this government, by whatever means necessary, if and when it ever ceases to look after the will and interests of the people.

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they should have no reason to read your emails or any other communications you might make.

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Direct and/or indirect contact with and/or through any element which is deemed a threat to national security is adequate reason for monitoring.

Kind of like following that "family tree" of certain individuals. One never knows exactly what will be found until all of the branches and leaves have been inspected.

Then, if "barking up the wrong tree", one has many other trees in the forest which need to be checked.

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Violation of my personal "civil liberties" is completely irrelevant to me, and if the government of this country feels that such actions are necessary to bring home alive even one more of those young men and/or women who are currently serving in the armed forces, then I am willing to sign a notarized waiver of any and/or all of these rights if necessary.

In the event a complete violation of my personal civil liberties, to include incarceration without due process, would have brought home the young Sean Cooley from my old MS National Guard unit, then lock me up, as I am too old to count, and those like Sean are the future of this nation.

Honor the fallen: Army Sgt. 1st Class Sean M. Cooley

Sean Cooley is the fifth Mississippi National Guard soldier to die in Iraq. ... KALSU, IRAQ — Sgt. 1st Class Sean Cooley was remembered as a hero this week ...

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/643612.html

Personally, I have absolutely no rights to whine and cry about potential and/or supposedly "violations" of my civil liberties, so long as persons such as Sean are still out there.

They will insure that this country and it's government do not abuse the rights of it's "people".

Well Thomas,

Thats your view on things and i will have to respect it. I'm not going to change your mind and its your country, not mine.

All the best

John

[Mark Stapleton]

An extraordinary thread, mainly due to some bizarre contributions from Tom Purvis. Here's a brief summary of what Tom's given us:

1. The monitoring of private E-Mails by intelligence agencies is a small price to pay for freedom. Anyone who disagrees lives in Disneyland/Fantasyland.

2. Tom asserts that such practises are necessary to prevent terror attacks and reduce casualties in Iraq. Next, he berates those in foreign lands who criticise this practise by claiming that their systems have failed and refers to them as parasites. For good measure, Tom then adds that the American system has provided you (non-Americans) with the luxuries and time to sit around and complain.

3. Accuses another member (Tim Carroll) of degrading the honour of a soldier who died in Iraq. This is clearly below the belt and Tom should apologise for this.

4. Attempts to rebut the perfectly correct argument from Mark Knight that the powers of the President and Congress are, in the absence of a declaration of war, limited not absolute by citing some vague nonsense which is almost impossible to follow.

Now Tom, what's your theory about the assassination? Oh yeah, LHO was the lone shooter and there's "not a shred" of evidence to the contrary. I disagree with that but I guess that just means I'm chasing a shadow down a rabbit hole, my reasoning is that of a third grader or I should first determine what an oak tree looks like before I go walking in the forest. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

An extraordinary thread, mainly due to some bizarre contributions from Tom Purvis. Here's a brief summary of what Tom's given us:

1. The monitoring of private E-Mails by intelligence agencies is a small price to pay for freedom. Anyone who disagrees lives in Disneyland/Fantasyland.

2. Tom asserts that such practises are necessary to prevent terror attacks and reduce casualties in Iraq. Next, he berates those in foreign lands who criticise this practise by claiming that their systems have failed and refers to them as parasites. For good measure, Tom then adds that the American system has provided you (non-Americans) with the luxuries and time to sit around and complain.

3. Accuses another member (Tim Carroll) of degrading the honour of a soldier who died in Iraq. This is clearly below the belt and Tom should apologise for this.

4. Attempts to rebut the perfectly correct argument from Mark Knight that the powers of the President and Congress are, in the absence of a declaration of war, limited not absolute by citing some vague nonsense which is almost impossible to follow.

Now Tom, what's your theory about the assassination? Oh yeah, LHO was the lone shooter and there's "not a shred" of evidence to the contrary. I disagree with that but I guess that just means I'm chasing a shadow down a rabbit hole, my reasoning is that of a third grader or I should first determine what an oak tree looks like before I go walking in the forest. Thanks for setting me straight.

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I guess that just means I'm chasing a shadow down a rabbit hole

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Possibly so! However, from the content and context of your posting, as well as your somewhat negligent manner of attempting to conform to suit your posting, it would appear more as a reading/comprehension problem on your part.

[Mark Stapleton]

I see. So which of your clear and concise postings have I negligently failed to comprehend?