Hyde

[John Dolva]

Robert Howard Yesterday, 02:41 PM Post #75

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(John): came across another site in a search for mkultra where there is a letter(redacted to hide id's) written in the 50's by someone talking about creating a 'jekyll and hyde' persona to among other things set up accounts. JJA is involved in this particular investigation as a witness mentioned in another context.

Set up accounts? Could you elaborate, I find this interesting. Also if there was ever an area that should be looked into it concerns Ruth Paine and the 'Hyde' connection. As you may or may not know, Ruth Paine's genealogy is tied to the Hyde family. When George DeMohrenschildt met with Clemard Charles in Haiti with William Avery Hyde, of the Agency for International Development [CIA SSD-157,435]

from the Khazak Weberman

"MEMORANDUM FOR FILE (CI/OA File 59751)

SUBJECT: Mrs. Ruth Paine nee Hyde

Shortly after the assassination of President Kennedy the press carried information concerning a Mrs. Ruth Paine who had befriended the OSWALD family. Mr. Bruce Solie, of the Office of Security, called to my attention that the Office of Security has information of possible interest concerning William A. Hyde, who had three children; namely Ruth Hyde, Sylvia Hyde Hoke and Carl Hyde. Mrs. Ruth Paine was known to have had the name Hyde prior to her marriage.

On November 29, 1963, I advised Sam Papich to contact Mr. Solie of the Office of Security for information of possible interest in connection with Mrs. Ruth Paine. I indicated to Mr. Papich that the Office of Security information was of possible security significance and consideration and I was subsequently informed that the Bureau had been in touch with Mr. Solie for its information. Birch D. O'Neal Chief, CI/SIG.

[NARA CIA 1993.07.08.09.:07:31:900520]

On March 1, 1964, FBI S.A. Charles M. Beall, Jr., ascertained at CIA that its security and foreign indices did not contain any references identifiable with Michael Ralph Paine. CIA advised its only reference to Ruth Avery Hyde, nee Hyde, was set out in CIA Report prepared in 1957 on William Avery Hyde, father of Ruth. This CIA material was furnished the Bureau via Liaison on December 4, 1963, with request the CIA material not be inserted in the Bureau reports. Dallas is cognizant." [FBI 105-1717-225 - Hosty's name on the "Searched, Indexed, Serialized and Filed April 19, 1964, FBI - Dallas" stamp on this document.] HEMMING told this researcher: "He was covering his ass."

The FBI reported: "On December 4, 1963, CIA made available information to the Bureau Liaison that in 1957 CIA considered using this individual to operate a cooperative educational center in Vietnam but he was not used by the CIA. Investigation by CIA at that time concerning William Avery Hyde was favorable."

Ruth Paine commented: "The information about the CIA considering my father for Vietnam was a surprise. I doubt if he would have accepted such an invitation, if it was offered. He certainly didn't go. He went to Peru. He was working with the Agency for International Development. He helped to develop rural credit unions for the compasinos so that they could save enough money to make loans to themselves, instead of always paying the huge bank rates. He loved it. I know that USAID asked my father to appraise a situation in Georgetown, Guiana. He recommended against starting a project there, as he thought the local officials corrupt." In 1964 Ruth Paine informed the Warren Commission:

Paine: My father is working for Nationwide Insurance Company. He has been on special assignment from them to - I am not certain of the name of the organization - to cooperative alliance in Europe.

Jenner: That is a cooperative alliance of insurance companies?Paine: Having to do with insurance; yes.

Jenner: Insurance companies?

Paine: Yes; that is my understanding.

Jenner: This is a commercial activity, isn't it?

Paine: Yes; I believe so. And -

Jenner: The cooperative alliance in Europe, does that include any Iron Curtain countries?

Paine: No. He is presently teaching a course at Ohio State University and he is on loan for that portion of time which he occupies with teaching from his regular job at Nationwide, although he is at the company most of the time"

Did Nationwide have any affiliation with Southland Life Insurance Co., located at the Southland Bdlg. 'where George DeMohrenschildt once took LHO to obtain a job, and "Maurice Bishop" was seen with LHO by Antonio Veciana? Inquiring minds want to know

--------------------

Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4306

http://propagandamatrix.com/archive_mind_control.html

[document begins]

[deletion]

May 26, 1953

Dear [deletion]

After our telephone conversation this morning I went to [one line deleted] and opened an account -- regular checking -- in the amount of $100.00 using the name [deletion]

It occurred to me that for sake of safety -- if, for example, anything should happen to me -- it would simplify matters if I made this a joint account between [deletion] and [deletion] Then, in case of my absence, illness or death you could recover the joint funds without any legal difficulties or monkey business.

The bank was a little sticky about opening an account in the absences of "references" from another bank, and also found it hard to understand how [deletion] got by all these years without a bank account. However, I offered to provide an excellent reference in a government official, a [deletion] who is [deletion] at [deletion] and that seemed to placate the money-lenders. Thereafter, I communicated with [deletion] and he immediately wrote a reference for [deletion] on official stationary. [deletion] also kindly said he was well acquainted with [deletion] and was pleased to offer for him a similar recommendation.

If you think this is a good idea, I suggest you sign the Joint Account Agreement and the three signature cards enclosed and return them to me.

And now that the account is opened I suggest you have funds deposited via Cashier's check -- or any other way that seems easiest -- directly to [deleted] account.

I ordered checks printed with [deleted] name thereon and have also ordered stationary bearing [deleted] name. I considered this might facilitate payment of bills, etc., by mail.

What with suspicious banks, landlords, utility companies, etc., you will understand that creating the Jekyll-Hyde personality in the form of [deleted] is taking a little "doing".

See you Monday, the 8th

Rgds,

[deleted]

[document ends]"

[Chris Newton]

John,

I concur that I believe this is a "warm" intelligence lead concerning Ms. Paine's father.

USAID (Agency for International Development) gets funded partialy through USIS (United States Information Service). The USIS was formerly the USIA (United States Information Agency). The USIA was formed after WWII from members of the OWI (Office of War Information). OWI was the "White Ops" team from the COI. The CIA (formerly OSS) was the "Black Ops" team from the COI.

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch over this -let me state that my Grandfather served as a CI expert in the USIS. The USIS wasn't always having tea with the ladies. Frequently, the USIS is used as cover for covert Ops. I suppose USAID could serve the same purpose.

Google "USAID +USIS" and "USIS +CIA" if you want to see the connections.

I think the reference to "Jekyll and Hyde" in that letter is simply a figure of speach and not an overt suggestion of something more nefarious. The choice of words in the context of an MKULTRA Op is apropo though.

Chris

[William Kelly]

The Hyde family connection is certainly a curious one.

If in fact, William Avery Hyde was present when George DeMohrenschildt met with Clem Charles in Haiti, that would certainly be interesting.

Besides the father, there's Ruth's mother, who I believe had mental problems, a sister, who worked for the government, and a brother.

The brother is a doctor in Yellow Springs, Ohio, home of Antioch College, Ruth's alma mater, and where Oswald was said to have attempted to register as a student before he graduated from HS and before he joined USMC. Antioch is an old, radical school that did away with grades decades ago, and had coed dorms before it was fashionable.

While a student at nearby U of Dayton circa 1970, I took a class at Antioch on the History of Vietnam, taught by a former CIA COS Saigon.

I'd also like to know if the Ohio Hydes are related to Marie Hyde, the little old lady who Oswald coincidently met twice in USSR, in two different cities, who took a photo of Oswald that ended up in CIA files.

The most thorough research into the Paines - Ruth Hyde and Michael Paine - was done by Barbara LaMonica, Carol Hewett, Esq. and a few other researchers, who issued a report on their work, part of which was published in Probe.

I think it is a little farfetched for Ruth Hyde's father doing business with DeMohrenschildt and Clem Charles in Haiti together.

Bill Kelly

bkjfk3@yahoo.com

[Tim Gratz]

Certainly we can agree that if there is ever a new inquiry both of the Paines ought to be high on the list of witnesses.

Did the HSCA re-examine either of them? I don't think so?

[Stephen Roy]

Although it may have no connection to this thread, FYI there is another Hyde who makes an appearance as a friend of Dave Ferrie. He was George Augustin Hyde of Washington DC, involved in one of the "odd churches" Ferrie was drawn to. Ferrie was trying to get Hyde to help him get ordained in a Basilian offshoot in 1963, and appears to have been in contact with him in 1964. When Ferrie died in 1967, Hyde was one of the persons he wanted notified.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Stephen Roy

[John Dolva]

This thread is derived from the pure speculation thread which sparked Roberts post. I separated it and posted, not because I know anything about it but because it seems worthwhile. Just bumping so Robert will be aware of it being here.

[Greg Wagner]

The Hyde family connection is certainly a curious one.

If in fact, William Avery Hyde was present when George DeMohrenschildt met with Clem Charles in Haiti, that would certainly be interesting.

Besides the father, there's Ruth's mother, who I believe had mental problems, a sister, who worked for the government, and a brother.

The brother is a doctor in Yellow Springs, Ohio, home of Antioch College, Ruth's alma mater, and where Oswald was said to have attempted to register as a student before he graduated from HS and before he joined USMC. Antioch is an old, radical school that did away with grades decades ago, and had coed dorms before it was fashionable.

While a student at nearby U of Dayton circa 1970, I took a class at Antioch on the History of Vietnam, taught by a former CIA COS Saigon.

I'd also like to know if the Ohio Hydes are related to Marie Hyde, the little old lady who Oswald coincidently met twice in USSR, in two different cities, who took a photo of Oswald that ended up in CIA files.

The most thorough research into the Paines - Ruth Hyde and Michael Paine - was done by Barbara LaMonica, Carol Hewett, Esq. and a few other researchers, who issued a report on their work, part of which was published in Probe.

I think it is a little farfetched for Ruth Hyde's father doing business with DeMohrenschildt and Clem Charles in Haiti together.

Bill Kelly

bkjfk3@yahoo.com

Hi Bill,

What do you know about Ruth Paine's brother? Is he still alive and practicing in Yellow Springs?

[Robert Howard]

I have been busier than I have ever been on JFK Research. One of the things that I have discovered is that there is a large amount of articles and links etc, concerning the Paines, some of this is intertwined with new information, (maybe I should point out that while it is new to me it may or may not be new to other members of the forum) On the other hand my JFK Collection includes 5 videos, newly de-classified files and over 75 books, so it's not like I am new to this. I will be posting on this topic as well as some others over the next few days. It will be anything but boring.

Question of the Day: What is 'Operation Silver Dollar"

Edited February 4, 2006 by Robert Howard

[Michael Clark]

On 2/4/2006 at 3:46 PM, Robert Howard said:

I have been busier than I have ever been on JFK Research. One of the things that I have discovered is that there is a large amount of articles and links etc, concerning the Paines, some of this is intertwined with new information, (maybe I should point out that while it is new to me it may or may not be new to other members of the forum) On the other hand my JFK Collection includes 5 videos, newly de-classified files and over 75 books, so it's not like I am new to this. I will be posting on this topic as well as some others over the next few days. It will be anything but boring.

Question of the Day: What is 'Operation Silver Dollar"

Mr. Howard, I give up. What is operation Silver Dollar?

To be sure, this is just a ping. I see a lot of great posts from you. I wonder if you are still busy researching.

Cheers,

Michael

[Larry Hancock]

Michael, in case Robert does not show up to answer....that was one of the early mysteries of the day and involved a test call relating to the national emergency airborne command post aircraft to a military base in Texas.  Silver Dollar was the call sign for the aircraft.  Thanks to dedicated research by Larry Haapenan we know all about it now, as it happened the aircraft was on a training flight and was doing circuit tests (as was normal) to locations near where the President was traveling.  I suspect a google search will get you all the details, both Larry and I have presented on it numerous times over the years since he did his reasearch.

[Michael Clark]

6 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Michael, in case Robert does not show up to answer....that was one of the early mysteries of the day and involved a test call relating to the national emergency airborne command post aircraft to a military base in Texas.  Silver Dollar was the call sign for the aircraft.  Thanks to dedicated research by Larry Haapenan we know all about it now, as it happened the aircraft was on a training flight and was doing circuit tests (as was normal) to locations near where the President was traveling.  I suspect a google search will get you all the details, both Larry and I have presented on it numerous times over the years since he did his reasearch.

Thanks Larry, I did find the National Emergency Airborne Command connection to Silver Dollar. It was not designated as "Operation Silver Dollar" so I thought it might be something different and so I asked here. And like I said, I was curious if he was still active.

Again, thanks for your reply.

Cheers,

Michael