Dealy Plaza Survey Data

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom wrote:

"Therefore, it now seems that we have a true "hybrid", in that we have the a reduced version of the actual WC survey plat in which I long ago drew in the two impact point positions for the first two shots, and thereafter, someone has added to it information gained from Mr. Breneman."

I cannot understand why you cannot accept that THESE NOTATIONS WERE MADE BY

BRENEMAN on a Dallas County Plat (attributed to West, the department head) at some

point in time before he allowed Jim Marrs to xerox the plat in 1978. Why is this so

difficult to believe??? The "two lines" which you say YOU DREW IN were there on this

copy in 1978 when it was given to Marrs. Therefore YOUR COPY DID NOT HAVE THE

LINES WHICH WERE DRAWN IN EARLIER on the Breneman copy. Why is it hard for

you to accept that THERE WERE NUMEROUS COPIES of the plat, and that West AND

Breneman did the basic work, not West alone? A draftsman drew the actual ORIGINAL,

and various BLUEPRINT COPIES had different notations on them.

Jack

Stated in it's most simple format: The reason that I know that this can not be true and factual is due to the simple fact that I am the person who drew in those two lines which imminate from the sixth floor window to the impact points on Elm St.

And as a matter of record, I did not receive the Survey Plat from Mr. West until some point in 1991, and the lines were drawn in at some point thereafter.

Secondly, I recognize the copy of the survey plat with those portions of structures, etc; which I "whited out" during stages of reduction of this drawing and subsequent pasting together of it's component parts.

And lastly, whoever came up with this, certainly was unaware of much of the survey information and data which was done, and therefore made multiple errors on it.

Which of course means that many, many persons will no doubt believe it!

Tom...clearly you are talking about ONE copy and I and I am talking about ANOTHER.

THERE WERE MULTIPLE COPIES. West gave you one. Breneman gave Marrs A COPY

OF THE SAME MAP, but with Breneman's handwritten notations in 1978. (see attached

handwritten Breneman notations, done on the West plat regarding the LIFE study).

Despite your assertions to the contrary, this version of the plat has been in Jim's file

SINCE 1978. You saying it has not does not make you right. I do not understand your

adamant stance that Marrs did not receive this plat from Breneman.

Study Breneman's notations. You might learn something.

Jack

Jack:

Obviously, Breneman gave someone something.

However, do you see any "little circles" drawn around the Z-frame numbers, as stated by Breneman in his letter?

One can reference the TIME/LIFE survey all day long. The WC Survey Plat is absolutely the only survey plat which was made on a scale of 1-inch = 10 feet, and on which frame#'s of the Z-film were utilized in platting/plotting purported positions of JFK at various points on Elm St.

The "little x" which you see remaining at the end of the line for the impact point of the first shot, just so happens to be a portion of the remaining "arc's" from utilization of a compass which was positioned on the identified locations of Mr. West's survey control points, and thereafter the "arc" of the compass was utilized to determine/transfer the Z-204/206 position from the Time Life Survey notes to the WC Survey Plat.

BY MYSELF!

Due to the difference in scale, as well as the lack of detail on the Time/Life Survey, it is feasibly virtually impossible to merely "look" at both of these survey plats, and thereafter transpose the Time/Life impact point to the WC drawing.

Without the Time/Life survey notes in hand, which establish the survey control points utilized in determination of the first shot impact point, one CAN NOT randomly pick a point in the street of the WC Survey Plat and claim this to be the point.

Which happens to be one of the elements that demonstrate that someone is not telling us everything.

Not to mention those portions of the WC survey plat which do not show on this drawing as a result of my having utilized "white out" years ago as well.

Certainly nice that Breneman only knew that the first shot occurred at some point between frames 186 and 207.

Certainly looks considerably more specific than that with the line imminating from the sixth floor window to the point on Elm St..

Referencing "Between frames 186 and 207" sounds kind of like Breneman had no idea as to where "K" was located, in relationship to the Z-film.

"Study Breneman's notations. You might learn something."

Rest assured, I learned a lot.

For example, try reading Mr. Breneman's letter!

Had Mr. Breneman had either a copy of the Time/Life Survey plat and/or the field notes, then he would have known that the TIME/LIFE survey showed a line-of-sight distance from the sixth floor window to the point of impact on Elm St as being exactly 170 feet, NOT the 156 feet that he states.

The 156 feet from the TIME/LIFE survey is the "slope" distance from the point of impact on the street, back to the intersection of the sidewalk with the corner of the TSDB at the bottom corner of the building.

It is noted that the elevation of the impact point for the first shot is in fact lower than the sidewalk/TSDB corner elevation due to the slope of Elm St.

Next,in Mr. Breneman's letter he states that the distance for the "K1" shot was a 250' line of sight.

Actually, the survey determined distance from the sixth floor window was 260 feet, with the 250' reference again being from the point of impact on Elm St. back to the bottom corner of the TSDB.

Both of which demonstrate that Mr. Breneman merely had information relative to slope distances and angles, and that someone else AKA the Crew Chief/Party Chief/someone in the office familiar with trig, did the final calculations for the Survey Plat.

Whoever "wrote up" the comments on this drawing also made another error, which would only be known to those who are in possession of copies of the survey's and survey notes.

Time/Life DID NOT claim that JBC was hit at any point around Z-235.

This happens to be an item which is directly traceable back to the FBI work of February 7, 1964, and the attempt by the FBI to delete the third/last/final shot and thereafter find some point between the first shot and the Z-313 head shot to "make it fit".

This is in fact what got their "lie/fib/whatever" caught!

In fact, Absolutely nothing of the Time/Life survey work makes any reference whatsoever to JBC having been hit.

The only reference to anyone being struck is in reference to JFK.

So, whoever dreamed this one up also did not have access to the Time/Life survey data and/or survey plat, or else that most certainly would not have stuck this on the drawing.

[Jack White]

Something is clearly wrong. And it is NOT Marrs having had this map in

his files for years BEFORE you say you drew lines on it. When he

gave it to me, he told me Breneman had given him the plat in the 70s.

If YOU drew lines on a plat in the 90s, it cannot have been this one.

This CANNOT be a copy which you drew lines on UNLESS YOU ARE

CALLING JIM MARRS A xxxx.

Jack

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Something is clearly wrong. And it is NOT Marrs having had this map in

his files for years BEFORE you say you drew lines on it. When he

gave it to me, he told me Breneman had given him the plat in the 70s.

If YOU drew lines on a plat in the 90s, it cannot have been this one.

This CANNOT be a copy which you drew lines on UNLESS YOU ARE

CALLING JIM MARRS A xxxx.

Jack

Shall we merely say that someone whom it would appear has some vested interest, is not presenting the absolute facts.

From the letter provided by Mr. Breneman, it is clear that he provided someone with some copy of some survey plat.

However, from the same information in this letter, it is abundantly clear that what has been presented as having been "marked up"/written on by Mr. Breneman, IS NOT the provided article, simply from the description provided as relates to "circles" around the numbers, etc.

Therefore, it would appear that someone has taken the liberty (at minimum) to transpose that information as provided by Mr. Breneman, and as obviously presented on some survey plat, and thereafter transpose said information to the considerably more legible copy of the WC Survey Plat on which I drew the lines.

As another "indicator" that whomever is responsible for this did not have access to the original WC drawing, had they in fact seen the FULL size survey plat, then they obviously should have questioned Mr. Breneman's recollections as regards the "SECTION OF CURB REMOVED".

YES! Mr. West/aka his survey personnel, during the WC survey work, surveyed in the "curb strike" area for the Tague strike and that area of where the concrete curb had been removed.

However, this area most assuredly was not on Elm St.! It was in fact over on Main St. where it belongs.

The area of the curb removal is clearly drawn in on the WC Survey Plat, and anyone who had access to this drawing, it is assumed, would have seen it.

And, since I am also in possession of ALL of the survey notes which Mr. West could find, for ALL of the Survey work &/or survey plats generated, and the only reference is to this "Tague" curb mark, then Mr. Brenman's claim as to what curb had this section removed is either intentionally vague or else his memory was as bad as mine frequently is.

Then, when one takes into consideration the other complete ERRORS of statement regarding impact points of bullets, etc; which Mr. Breneman reportedly made in his letter, etc; then I might add that without whatever drawing he reportedly provided, there is considerable room for misinterpretation of the facts.

For those who have interest in the FACTS!

Here is the portion of the WC Survey Plat which demonstrates the section of curb removal over on Main St at the location of the Tague hit.

It is the ONLY reference in any drawing and/or in any survey notes to any bullet/fragment fired having potentially struck the concrete curb.

So! One might ask? If those who claim the validity of the presented "Breneman" drawing do so, exactly why was it that they did not also recognize the actual surveyed in position of the curb removal?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Something is clearly wrong. And it is NOT Marrs having had this map in

his files for years BEFORE you say you drew lines on it. When he

gave it to me, he told me Breneman had given him the plat in the 70s.

If YOU drew lines on a plat in the 90s, it cannot have been this one.

This CANNOT be a copy which you drew lines on UNLESS YOU ARE

CALLING JIM MARRS A xxxx.

Jack

Shall we merely say that someone whom it would appear has some vested interest, is not presenting the absolute facts.

From the letter provided by Mr. Breneman, it is clear that he provided someone with some copy of some survey plat.

However, from the same information in this letter, it is abundantly clear that what has been presented as having been "marked up"/written on by Mr. Breneman, IS NOT the provided article, simply from the description provided as relates to "circles" around the numbers, etc.

Therefore, it would appear that someone has taken the liberty (at minimum) to transpose that information as provided by Mr. Breneman, and as obviously presented on some survey plat, and thereafter transpose said information to the considerably more legible copy of the WC Survey Plat on which I drew the lines.

As another "indicator" that whomever is responsible for this did not have access to the original WC drawing, had they in fact seen the FULL size survey plat, then they obviously should have questioned Mr. Breneman's recollections as regards the "SECTION OF CURB REMOVED".

YES! Mr. West/aka his survey personnel, during the WC survey work, surveyed in the "curb strike" area for the Tague strike and that area of where the concrete curb had been removed.

However, this area most assuredly was not on Elm St.! It was in fact over on Main St. where it belongs.

The area of the curb removal is clearly drawn in on the WC Survey Plat, and anyone who had access to this drawing, it is assumed, would have seen it.

And, since I am also in possession of ALL of the survey notes which Mr. West could find, for ALL of the Survey work &/or survey plats generated, and the only reference is to this "Tague" curb mark, then Mr. Brenman's claim as to what curb had this section removed is either intentionally vague or else his memory was as bad as mine frequently is.

Then, when one takes into consideration the other complete ERRORS of statement regarding impact points of bullets, etc; which Mr. Breneman reportedly made in his letter, etc; then I might add that without whatever drawing he reportedly provided, there is considerable room for misinterpretation of the facts.

For those who have interest in the FACTS!

Here is the portion of the WC Survey Plat which demonstrates the section of curb removal over on Main St at the location of the Tague hit.

It is the ONLY reference in any drawing and/or in any survey notes to any bullet/fragment fired having potentially struck the concrete curb.

So! One might ask? If those who claim the validity of the presented "Breneman" drawing do so, exactly why was it that they did not also recognize the actual surveyed in position of the curb removal?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The Survey'(s) & their Survey Plats

Since this topic heading is dedicated to Mr. Robert West who was ultimately responsible for ALL of the survey work related to the JFK assassination, perhaps it would be of some benefit, for the sake of history, to present the exact information relative to the survey work and subsequently generated survey plats.

1. November 26, 1963, a survey and survey plat was completed for Time/Life Magazine

2. December 2/3/4/& 5th, survey work was completed for the US Secret Service, with the generated survey plat being dated 12/5/1963

3. Minor survey work was done for the FBI on/about Februrary 7, 1964. The Survey Plat which was generated as a result of this work is merely a modified version of the Secret Service Survey Plat of 12/5/63.

4. The WC Survey work was completed on May 24, 1963, and the actual date of completion of the WC Survey Plat was May 31, 1963.

5. On June 25, 1963, the FBI had Mr. West create another "modified" version of the original Secret Service Survey Plat. There was no known actual survey work conducted in association with generation of this survey plat, as Mr. West basically relied on previously obtained survey data.

In addition to the actual survey work done for creation of the various survey plats, Mr. West and Paul D. Hardin were, on 3/16/64*, contacted by US Secret Service John Joe Howlet and directed to determine the "EXACT" position of two of the road signs in Dealy Plaza, in regards to their exact position relative to the street curb, as well as the exact measurements of the signs and sign posts.

*It should be noted that this is the exact date on which the Autopsy Surgeons were being questioned by the WC, and while all "eyes" were watching the WC and the autopsy surgeons, Mr. West was, unknowingly, gaining information for the WC relative to generation of the later WC misrepresentation of facts related to their re-enactment of the assassination.

Progressively, I will make an attempt to "walk through" the genesis of the survey work and how it assisted in "changing history" by the ultimate actions of the FBI and the WC.

Hopefully, an open discussion and presentation of the work of Mr. Robert West may provide the information required that those who have interest in the actual facts of the events in Dealy Plaza, will no longer waste time in attempting to determine exactly WHO does one believe when it comes to this subject.

TIME LIFE#1.

Survey completed for Time/Life with the actual survey work being done generally on 11/26/63, and the subsequent survey plat being dated 11/26/63.

The survey plat for this survey was generated on a small scale in which 1-inch = 20 feet.

The survey was extremely limited in scope and provided only the most basic of information relative to an extremely limited drawing of the Elm St. Dealy Plaza area.

Absolutely no street elevations contour lines, etc; are provided, and even the elevation/height of 60 feet from the sixth floor window ledge of the TSDB to the sidewalk below was later corrected to an accuracy of 60.7 feet for subsequent survey work.

2. Firing angles and distances provided on this survey are in fact the angle and distance from the sixth floor window ledge to an impact point on the street where it was determined was the position of JFK at given/identified points of the Z-film.

The person responsible for this work DID NOT take into consideration the actual elevation of JFK/his head above the elevation of Elm St. at the point identified.

3. What is of most critical importance as regards this survey lies in the establishement of various SCP's (survey control points/stations) for thereafter identification of distances and directions to given points to be surveyed in. These SCP's are referenced in the survey notes with their exact distance/direction from fixed objects such as trees, concrete structures, etc; which do not move, and can thereafter be readily found and re-utilized again as an established "Control Station" for any future work. Thus establishing that all work, to include future work, begins from known and established points.

Thus is the case of the importance of several of the SCP's from the Time/Life survey work, as these established points provided the "common ground" for determination of information which is actually never seen/provided on the finalized survey plat.

[John Dolva]

a minor point: these scp's in turn are presumably related to even more permanent fixed survey point(s)established for example at town founding perhaps. Whatever, the scp's can be relocated from other (older) points?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The Survey'(s) & their Survey Plats

Since this topic heading is dedicated to Mr. Robert West who was ultimately responsible for ALL of the survey work related to the JFK assassination, perhaps it would be of some benefit, for the sake of history, to present the exact information relative to the survey work and subsequently generated survey plats.

1. November 26, 1963, a survey and survey plat was completed for Time/Life Magazine

2. December 2/3/4/& 5th, survey work was completed for the US Secret Service, with the generated survey plat being dated 12/5/1963

3. Minor survey work was done for the FBI on/about Februrary 7, 1964. The Survey Plat which was generated as a result of this work is merely a modified version of the Secret Service Survey Plat of 12/5/63.

4. The WC Survey work was completed on May 24, 1963, and the actual date of completion of the WC Survey Plat was May 31, 1963.

5. On June 25, 1963, the FBI had Mr. West create another "modified" version of the original Secret Service Survey Plat. There was no known actual survey work conducted in association with generation of this survey plat, as Mr. West basically relied on previously obtained survey data.

In addition to the actual survey work done for creation of the various survey plats, Mr. West and Paul D. Hardin were, on 3/16/64*, contacted by US Secret Service John Joe Howlet and directed to determine the "EXACT" position of two of the road signs in Dealy Plaza, in regards to their exact position relative to the street curb, as well as the exact measurements of the signs and sign posts.

*It should be noted that this is the exact date on which the Autopsy Surgeons were being questioned by the WC, and while all "eyes" were watching the WC and the autopsy surgeons, Mr. West was, unknowingly, gaining information for the WC relative to generation of the later WC misrepresentation of facts related to their re-enactment of the assassination.

Progressively, I will make an attempt to "walk through" the genesis of the survey work and how it assisted in "changing history" by the ultimate actions of the FBI and the WC.

Hopefully, an open discussion and presentation of the work of Mr. Robert West may provide the information required that those who have interest in the actual facts of the events in Dealy Plaza, will no longer waste time in attempting to determine exactly WHO does one believe when it comes to this subject.

TIME LIFE#1.

Survey completed for Time/Life with the actual survey work being done generally on 11/26/63, and the subsequent survey plat being dated 11/26/63.

The survey plat for this survey was generated on a small scale in which 1-inch = 20 feet.

The survey was extremely limited in scope and provided only the most basic of information relative to an extremely limited drawing of the Elm St. Dealy Plaza area.

Absolutely no street elevations contour lines, etc; are provided, and even the elevation/height of 60 feet from the sixth floor window ledge of the TSDB to the sidewalk below was later corrected to an accuracy of 60.7 feet for subsequent survey work.

2. Firing angles and distances provided on this survey are in fact the angle and distance from the sixth floor window ledge to an impact point on the street where it was determined was the position of JFK at given/identified points of the Z-film.

The person responsible for this work DID NOT take into consideration the actual elevation of JFK/his head above the elevation of Elm St. at the point identified.

3. What is of most critical importance as regards this survey lies in the establishement of various SCP's (survey control points/stations) for thereafter identification of distances and directions to given points to be surveyed in. These SCP's are referenced in the survey notes with their exact distance/direction from fixed objects such as trees, concrete structures, etc; which do not move, and can thereafter be readily found and re-utilized again as an established "Control Station" for any future work. Thus establishing that all work, to include future work, begins from known and established points.

Thus is the case of the importance of several of the SCP's from the Time/Life survey work, as these established points provided the "common ground" for determination of information which is actually never seen/provided on the finalized survey plat.

The next attachment represents that information relative to the first shot fired in the assassination of JFK, as determined during the Time/Life survey work of 11/26/63.

For reasons which will ultimately be explained, I have, as usual, utilized "white-out" to delete information from this portion of the survey plat. However, said information is relative ONLY to the other shots fired, and portions of that information have already been presented, just as I will ultimately present ALL of the pertinent information relative to the Time/Life issue.

It is specifically noted as to the limited extent of actual survey information which was obtained in preparation of this very "plain" survey plat.

There are absolutely no street elevations for Elm St, as well as other surrounding areas, and virtually all of the permanent type identifiable objects in Dealy Plaza are omitted with the exception of a single tree and as will be later shown, the Zapruder position and the road sign located between the position of Zapruder & JFK.

This is the work, as referenced by the Breneman letter, on which he gathered the information, and as identified in his letter, the mark "K" for the impact point of the first shot fired is correct.

However, I might add that I would like to see someone take this drawing and thereafter derive the Z-204/206 ending point of trajectory line which I long ago drew onto the WC Survey Plat, and which has been the topic of much discussion.

In fact, the platted position of "K" for the first shot, as presented by Mr. Breneman in this actual survey, is not even near the center of Elm St as is the impact position of the previously presented Z-204/206 controversy survey plat.

The Z-204/206 impact position for the first shot fired was determined by myself utilizing the SCP's as established during this Time/Life survey, and thereafter plotting their positions onto the full scale WC Survey Plat, and then from these determined locations thereafter determining the impact location for the first shot fired, as relative to the considerably more detailed WC Survey Plat.

And, since Mr. West and his crew later utilized the nail driven into Elm St. for the Time/Life Survey impact point of the first shot, as a reference point for much of the SS Survey work, it provides a "carryover" means of verification of the impact point for this first shot.

And, since it would appear that I am the only person sitting out here on the end of this limb (all by myself & lonesome) who claims that the impact point for the first shot fired was in the Z-204/206 locations, and Mr. Breneman would have had little if any idea as to what position "K" actually fell, relative to both Z-frame number as well as location on later surveys, then the "provenance" of that copy of the WC Survey plat which demonstrates a line of fire for the first shot imminating from the sixth floor of the TSDB and ending in virtually the center of Elm St on the WC Survey Plat at the small "X" which was created by the "arc" of a compass from the established SCP's, would seem quite demonstratably clear,

What is of importance in regards to this "first shot" of the Time/Life work, is

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The Survey'(s) & their Survey Plats

Since this topic heading is dedicated to Mr. Robert West who was ultimately responsible for ALL of the survey work related to the JFK assassination, perhaps it would be of some benefit, for the sake of history, to present the exact information relative to the survey work and subsequently generated survey plats.

1. November 26, 1963, a survey and survey plat was completed for Time/Life Magazine

2. December 2/3/4/& 5th, survey work was completed for the US Secret Service, with the generated survey plat being dated 12/5/1963

3. Minor survey work was done for the FBI on/about Februrary 7, 1964. The Survey Plat which was generated as a result of this work is merely a modified version of the Secret Service Survey Plat of 12/5/63.

4. The WC Survey work was completed on May 24, 1963, and the actual date of completion of the WC Survey Plat was May 31, 1963.

5. On June 25, 1963, the FBI had Mr. West create another "modified" version of the original Secret Service Survey Plat. There was no known actual survey work conducted in association with generation of this survey plat, as Mr. West basically relied on previously obtained survey data.

In addition to the actual survey work done for creation of the various survey plats, Mr. West and Paul D. Hardin were, on 3/16/64*, contacted by US Secret Service John Joe Howlet and directed to determine the "EXACT" position of two of the road signs in Dealy Plaza, in regards to their exact position relative to the street curb, as well as the exact measurements of the signs and sign posts.

*It should be noted that this is the exact date on which the Autopsy Surgeons were being questioned by the WC, and while all "eyes" were watching the WC and the autopsy surgeons, Mr. West was, unknowingly, gaining information for the WC relative to generation of the later WC misrepresentation of facts related to their re-enactment of the assassination.

Progressively, I will make an attempt to "walk through" the genesis of the survey work and how it assisted in "changing history" by the ultimate actions of the FBI and the WC.

Hopefully, an open discussion and presentation of the work of Mr. Robert West may provide the information required that those who have interest in the actual facts of the events in Dealy Plaza, will no longer waste time in attempting to determine exactly WHO does one believe when it comes to this subject.

TIME LIFE#1.

Survey completed for Time/Life with the actual survey work being done generally on 11/26/63, and the subsequent survey plat being dated 11/26/63.

The survey plat for this survey was generated on a small scale in which 1-inch = 20 feet.

The survey was extremely limited in scope and provided only the most basic of information relative to an extremely limited drawing of the Elm St. Dealy Plaza area.

Absolutely no street elevations contour lines, etc; are provided, and even the elevation/height of 60 feet from the sixth floor window ledge of the TSDB to the sidewalk below was later corrected to an accuracy of 60.7 feet for subsequent survey work.

2. Firing angles and distances provided on this survey are in fact the angle and distance from the sixth floor window ledge to an impact point on the street where it was determined was the position of JFK at given/identified points of the Z-film.

The person responsible for this work DID NOT take into consideration the actual elevation of JFK/his head above the elevation of Elm St. at the point identified.

3. What is of most critical importance as regards this survey lies in the establishement of various SCP's (survey control points/stations) for thereafter identification of distances and directions to given points to be surveyed in. These SCP's are referenced in the survey notes with their exact distance/direction from fixed objects such as trees, concrete structures, etc; which do not move, and can thereafter be readily found and re-utilized again as an established "Control Station" for any future work. Thus establishing that all work, to include future work, begins from known and established points.

Thus is the case of the importance of several of the SCP's from the Time/Life survey work, as these established points provided the "common ground" for determination of information which is actually never seen/provided on the finalized survey plat.

The next attachment represents that information relative to the first shot fired in the assassination of JFK, as determined during the Time/Life survey work of 11/26/63.

For reasons which will ultimately be explained, I have, as usual, utilized "white-out" to delete information from this portion of the survey plat. However, said information is relative ONLY to the other shots fired, and portions of that information have already been presented, just as I will ultimately present ALL of the pertinent information relative to the Time/Life issue.

It is specifically noted as to the limited extent of actual survey information which was obtained in preparation of this very "plain" survey plat.

There are absolutely no street elevations for Elm St, as well as other surrounding areas, and virtually all of the permanent type identifiable objects in Dealy Plaza are omitted with the exception of a single tree and as will be later shown, the Zapruder position and the road sign located between the position of Zapruder & JFK.

This is the work, as referenced by the Breneman letter, on which he gathered the information, and as identified in his letter, the mark "K" for the impact point of the first shot fired is correct.

However, I might add that I would like to see someone take this drawing and thereafter derive the Z-204/206 ending point of trajectory line which I long ago drew onto the WC Survey Plat, and which has been the topic of much discussion.

In fact, the platted position of "K" for the first shot, as presented by Mr. Breneman in this actual survey, is not even near the center of Elm St as is the impact position of the previously presented Z-204/206 controversy survey plat.

The Z-204/206 impact position for the first shot fired was determined by myself utilizing the SCP's as established during this Time/Life survey, and thereafter plotting their positions onto the full scale WC Survey Plat, and then from these determined locations thereafter determining the impact location for the first shot fired, as relative to the considerably more detailed WC Survey Plat.

And, since Mr. West and his crew later utilized the nail driven into Elm St. for the Time/Life Survey impact point of the first shot, as a reference point for much of the SS Survey work, it provides a "carryover" means of verification of the impact point for this first shot.

And, since it would appear that I am the only person sitting out here on the end of this limb (all by myself & lonesome) who claims that the impact point for the first shot fired was in the Z-204/206 locations, and Mr. Breneman would have had little if any idea as to what position "K" actually fell, relative to both Z-frame number as well as location on later surveys, then the "provenance" of that copy of the WC Survey plat which demonstrates a line of fire for the first shot imminating from the sixth floor of the TSDB and ending in virtually the center of Elm St on the WC Survey Plat at the small "X" which was created by the "arc" of a compass from the established SCP's, would seem quite demonstratably clear,

What is of importance in regards to this "first shot" of the Time/Life work, is

That Time/Life, utilizing the original Z-film in their possession, was able to, with apparantly little difficulty, able to demonstratably identy a position on Elm St. for the point at which the first shot fired struck JFK.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The Survey'(s) & their Survey Plats

Since this topic heading is dedicated to Mr. Robert West who was ultimately responsible for ALL of the survey work related to the JFK assassination, perhaps it would be of some benefit, for the sake of history, to present the exact information relative to the survey work and subsequently generated survey plats.

1. November 26, 1963, a survey and survey plat was completed for Time/Life Magazine

2. December 2/3/4/& 5th, survey work was completed for the US Secret Service, with the generated survey plat being dated 12/5/1963

3. Minor survey work was done for the FBI on/about Februrary 7, 1964. The Survey Plat which was generated as a result of this work is merely a modified version of the Secret Service Survey Plat of 12/5/63.

4. The WC Survey work was completed on May 24, 1963, and the actual date of completion of the WC Survey Plat was May 31, 1963.

5. On June 25, 1963, the FBI had Mr. West create another "modified" version of the original Secret Service Survey Plat. There was no known actual survey work conducted in association with generation of this survey plat, as Mr. West basically relied on previously obtained survey data.

In addition to the actual survey work done for creation of the various survey plats, Mr. West and Paul D. Hardin were, on 3/16/64*, contacted by US Secret Service John Joe Howlet and directed to determine the "EXACT" position of two of the road signs in Dealy Plaza, in regards to their exact position relative to the street curb, as well as the exact measurements of the signs and sign posts.

*It should be noted that this is the exact date on which the Autopsy Surgeons were being questioned by the WC, and while all "eyes" were watching the WC and the autopsy surgeons, Mr. West was, unknowingly, gaining information for the WC relative to generation of the later WC misrepresentation of facts related to their re-enactment of the assassination.

Progressively, I will make an attempt to "walk through" the genesis of the survey work and how it assisted in "changing history" by the ultimate actions of the FBI and the WC.

Hopefully, an open discussion and presentation of the work of Mr. Robert West may provide the information required that those who have interest in the actual facts of the events in Dealy Plaza, will no longer waste time in attempting to determine exactly WHO does one believe when it comes to this subject.

TIME LIFE#1.

Survey completed for Time/Life with the actual survey work being done generally on 11/26/63, and the subsequent survey plat being dated 11/26/63.

The survey plat for this survey was generated on a small scale in which 1-inch = 20 feet.

The survey was extremely limited in scope and provided only the most basic of information relative to an extremely limited drawing of the Elm St. Dealy Plaza area.

Absolutely no street elevations contour lines, etc; are provided, and even the elevation/height of 60 feet from the sixth floor window ledge of the TSDB to the sidewalk below was later corrected to an accuracy of 60.7 feet for subsequent survey work.

2. Firing angles and distances provided on this survey are in fact the angle and distance from the sixth floor window ledge to an impact point on the street where it was determined was the position of JFK at given/identified points of the Z-film.

The person responsible for this work DID NOT take into consideration the actual elevation of JFK/his head above the elevation of Elm St. at the point identified.

3. What is of most critical importance as regards this survey lies in the establishement of various SCP's (survey control points/stations) for thereafter identification of distances and directions to given points to be surveyed in. These SCP's are referenced in the survey notes with their exact distance/direction from fixed objects such as trees, concrete structures, etc; which do not move, and can thereafter be readily found and re-utilized again as an established "Control Station" for any future work. Thus establishing that all work, to include future work, begins from known and established points.

Thus is the case of the importance of several of the SCP's from the Time/Life survey work, as these established points provided the "common ground" for determination of information which is actually never seen/provided on the finalized survey plat.

The next attachment represents that information relative to the first shot fired in the assassination of JFK, as determined during the Time/Life survey work of 11/26/63.

For reasons which will ultimately be explained, I have, as usual, utilized "white-out" to delete information from this portion of the survey plat. However, said information is relative ONLY to the other shots fired, and portions of that information have already been presented, just as I will ultimately present ALL of the pertinent information relative to the Time/Life issue.

It is specifically noted as to the limited extent of actual survey information which was obtained in preparation of this very "plain" survey plat.

There are absolutely no street elevations for Elm St, as well as other surrounding areas, and virtually all of the permanent type identifiable objects in Dealy Plaza are omitted with the exception of a single tree and as will be later shown, the Zapruder position and the road sign located between the position of Zapruder & JFK.

This is the work, as referenced by the Breneman letter, on which he gathered the information, and as identified in his letter, the mark "K" for the impact point of the first shot fired is correct.

However, I might add that I would like to see someone take this drawing and thereafter derive the Z-204/206 ending point of trajectory line which I long ago drew onto the WC Survey Plat, and which has been the topic of much discussion.

In fact, the platted position of "K" for the first shot, as presented by Mr. Breneman in this actual survey, is not even near the center of Elm St as is the impact position of the previously presented Z-204/206 controversy survey plat.

The Z-204/206 impact position for the first shot fired was determined by myself utilizing the SCP's as established during this Time/Life survey, and thereafter plotting their positions onto the full scale WC Survey Plat, and then from these determined locations thereafter determining the impact location for the first shot fired, as relative to the considerably more detailed WC Survey Plat.

And, since Mr. West and his crew later utilized the nail driven into Elm St. for the Time/Life Survey impact point of the first shot, as a reference point for much of the SS Survey work, it provides a "carryover" means of verification of the impact point for this first shot.

And, since it would appear that I am the only person sitting out here on the end of this limb (all by myself & lonesome) who claims that the impact point for the first shot fired was in the Z-204/206 locations, and Mr. Breneman would have had little if any idea as to what position "K" actually fell, relative to both Z-frame number as well as location on later surveys, then the "provenance" of that copy of the WC Survey plat which demonstrates a line of fire for the first shot imminating from the sixth floor of the TSDB and ending in virtually the center of Elm St on the WC Survey Plat at the small "X" which was created by the "arc" of a compass from the established SCP's, would seem quite demonstratably clear,

What is of importance in regards to this "first shot" of the Time/Life work, is

That Time/Life, utilizing the original Z-film in their possession, was able to, with apparantly little difficulty, able to demonstratably identy a position on Elm St. for the point at which the first shot fired struck JFK.

In Mr. Breneman's purported letter, he states that the distance from the sixth floor window to the point of impact on Elm St. for the first shot fired was 156 feet.

Certainly, most would tend to take the word of someone who was there as opposed to some "wannabe" researcher who claims that Mr. Breneman is incorrect.

However, when that "wannabe" has in hand the physical drawings generated, as well as the notes made during the survey, perhaps some "new light" is revealed.

As stated, the 156 feet is in fact the "slope/chain" distance from the point on Elm St, back to the bottom corner of the TSDB directly below the sixth floor window.

The "Slant" distance, which is in fact that distance from the sixth floor window to the point of impact on Elm St. was determined to be 170 feet.

However, this "slant" distance is also actually incorrect for an aiming point for the head of JFK which was several feet above the actually plotted point on the street.

Nevertheless, Mr. Breneman's reference to the 156 foot distance, is indicative of the fact that he neither had in his possession a copy of the actual Time/Life Survey Plat which demonstrates the 170 foot "SLANT" distance, as well as the fact that he also apparantly had no input into the trig functions which were utilized to convert the survey information (slope distance & vertical angle) to the Slant Distance.

The Survey'(s) & their Survey Plats

Since this topic heading is dedicated to Mr. Robert West who was ultimately responsible for ALL of the survey work related to the JFK assassination, perhaps it would be of some benefit, for the sake of history, to present the exact information relative to the survey work and subsequently generated survey plats.

1. November 26, 1963, a survey and survey plat was completed for Time/Life Magazine

2. December 2/3/4/& 5th, survey work was completed for the US Secret Service, with the generated survey plat being dated 12/5/1963

3. Minor survey work was done for the FBI on/about Februrary 7, 1964. The Survey Plat which was generated as a result of this work is merely a modified version of the Secret Service Survey Plat of 12/5/63.

4. The WC Survey work was completed on May 24, 1963, and the actual date of completion of the WC Survey Plat was May 31, 1963.

5. On June 25, 1963, the FBI had Mr. West create another "modified" version of the original Secret Service Survey Plat. There was no known actual survey work conducted in association with generation of this survey plat, as Mr. West basically relied on previously obtained survey data.

In addition to the actual survey work done for creation of the various survey plats, Mr. West and Paul D. Hardin were, on 3/16/64*, contacted by US Secret Service John Joe Howlet and directed to determine the "EXACT" position of two of the road signs in Dealy Plaza, in regards to their exact position relative to the street curb, as well as the exact measurements of the signs and sign posts.

*It should be noted that this is the exact date on which the Autopsy Surgeons were being questioned by the WC, and while all "eyes" were watching the WC and the autopsy surgeons, Mr. West was, unknowingly, gaining information for the WC relative to generation of the later WC misrepresentation of facts related to their re-enactment of the assassination.

Progressively, I will make an attempt to "walk through" the genesis of the survey work and how it assisted in "changing history" by the ultimate actions of the FBI and the WC.

Hopefully, an open discussion and presentation of the work of Mr. Robert West may provide the information required that those who have interest in the actual facts of the events in Dealy Plaza, will no longer waste time in attempting to determine exactly WHO does one believe when it comes to this subject.

TIME LIFE#1.

Survey completed for Time/Life with the actual survey work being done generally on 11/26/63, and the subsequent survey plat being dated 11/26/63.

The survey plat for this survey was generated on a small scale in which 1-inch = 20 feet.

The survey was extremely limited in scope and provided only the most basic of information relative to an extremely limited drawing of the Elm St. Dealy Plaza area.

Absolutely no street elevations contour lines, etc; are provided, and even the elevation/height of 60 feet from the sixth floor window ledge of the TSDB to the sidewalk below was later corrected to an accuracy of 60.7 feet for subsequent survey work.

2. Firing angles and distances provided on this survey are in fact the angle and distance from the sixth floor window ledge to an impact point on the street where it was determined was the position of JFK at given/identified points of the Z-film.

The person responsible for this work DID NOT take into consideration the actual elevation of JFK/his head above the elevation of Elm St. at the point identified.

3. What is of most critical importance as regards this survey lies in the establishement of various SCP's (survey control points/stations) for thereafter identification of distances and directions to given points to be surveyed in. These SCP's are referenced in the survey notes with their exact distance/direction from fixed objects such as trees, concrete structures, etc; which do not move, and can thereafter be readily found and re-utilized again as an established "Control Station" for any future work. Thus establishing that all work, to include future work, begins from known and established points.

Thus is the case of the importance of several of the SCP's from the Time/Life survey work, as these established points provided the "common ground" for determination of information which is actually never seen/provided on the finalized survey plat.

The next attachment represents that information relative to the first shot fired in the assassination of JFK, as determined during the Time/Life survey work of 11/26/63.

For reasons which will ultimately be explained, I have, as usual, utilized "white-out" to delete information from this portion of the survey plat. However, said information is relative ONLY to the other shots fired, and portions of that information have already been presented, just as I will ultimately present ALL of the pertinent information relative to the Time/Life issue.

It is specifically noted as to the limited extent of actual survey information which was obtained in preparation of this very "plain" survey plat.

There are absolutely no street elevations for Elm St, as well as other surrounding areas, and virtually all of the permanent type identifiable objects in Dealy Plaza are omitted with the exception of a single tree and as will be later shown, the Zapruder position and the road sign located between the position of Zapruder & JFK.

This is the work, as referenced by the Breneman letter, on which he gathered the information, and as identified in his letter, the mark "K" for the impact point of the first shot fired is correct.

However, I might add that I would like to see someone take this drawing and thereafter derive the Z-204/206 ending point of trajectory line which I long ago drew onto the WC Survey Plat, and which has been the topic of much discussion.

In fact, the platted position of "K" for the first shot, as presented by Mr. Breneman in this actual survey, is not even near the center of Elm St as is the impact position of the previously presented Z-204/206 controversy survey plat.

The Z-204/206 impact position for the first shot fired was determined by myself utilizing the SCP's as established during this Time/Life survey, and thereafter plotting their positions onto the full scale WC Survey Plat, and then from these determined locations thereafter determining the impact location for the first shot fired, as relative to the considerably more detailed WC Survey Plat.

And, since Mr. West and his crew later utilized the nail driven into Elm St. for the Time/Life Survey impact point of the first shot, as a reference point for much of the SS Survey work, it provides a "carryover" means of verification of the impact point for this first shot.

And, since it would appear that I am the only person sitting out here on the end of this limb (all by myself & lonesome) who claims that the impact point for the first shot fired was in the Z-204/206 locations, and Mr. Breneman would have had little if any idea as to what position "K" actually fell, relative to both Z-frame number as well as location on later surveys, then the "provenance" of that copy of the WC Survey plat which demonstrates a line of fire for the first shot imminating from the sixth floor of the TSDB and ending in virtually the center of Elm St on the WC Survey Plat at the small "X" which was created by the "arc" of a compass from the established SCP's, would seem quite demonstratably clear,

What is of importance in regards to this "first shot" of the Time/Life work, is

That Time/Life, utilizing the original Z-film in their possession, was able to, with apparantly little difficulty, able to demonstratably identy a position on Elm St. for the point at which the first shot fired struck JFK.

In Mr. Breneman's purported letter, he states that the distance from the sixth floor window to the point of impact on Elm St. for the first shot fired was 156 feet.

Certainly, most would tend to take the word of someone who was there as opposed to some "wannabe" researcher who claims that Mr. Breneman is incorrect.

However, when that "wannabe" has in hand the physical drawings generated, as well as the notes made during the survey, perhaps some "new light" is revealed.

As stated, the 156 feet is in fact the "slope/chain" distance from the point on Elm St, back to the bottom corner of the TSDB directly below the sixth floor window.

The "Slant" distance, which is in fact that distance from the sixth floor window to the point of impact on Elm St. was determined to be 170 feet.

However, this "slant" distance is also actually incorrect for an aiming point for the head of JFK which was several feet above the actually plotted point on the street.

Nevertheless, Mr. Breneman's reference to the 156 foot distance, is indicative of the fact that he neither had in his possession a copy of the actual Time/Life Survey Plat which demonstrates the 170 foot "SLANT" distance, as well as the fact that he also apparantly had no input into the trig functions which were utilized to convert the survey information (slope distance & vertical angle) to the Slant Distance.

As an additional note to this presented information, it should be observed that whoever conducted this work also determined that the distance from the concrete sidewalk at the bottom corner of the TSDB, to the ledge of the sixth floor window, was 60 feet.

In reality, the considerably more accurate SS Survey of 12/5/63, determined that this vertical distance was in reality 60.7 feet.

Again creating an additional slight error in calculations of distances and downward firing angles for the first shot fired, as presented in the Time/Life Survey work.

However, one constant was the identified position of JFK on Elm St, as determined by looking at portions(prints) of the Z-film and standing at the Z-position and aligning the JFK position. And fortunately, this position had been marked and identified by a nail driven down into the asphalt of the street, as identified and located utilizing established and fixed SCP's from a Control Station.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

As they claim in antiques & bloodlines, "provenance" is critical!

The first postmark date on a package received from Mr. West is dated September 1991 and would have been for the actual copy of the WC Survey Plat (actually, I received two copies)

Thereafter Mr. West, in telephone conversations, indicated possession of the other survey plats as well as the survey notes.

To this I requested copies and informed him that I would gladly pay for the cost of any/all expenses necessary to provide me with copies of the available information.

Attached is a copy of a bill which I found while "digging" around looking for other information.

[David G. Healy]

As they claim in antiques & bloodlines, "provenance" is critical!

The first postmark date on a package received from Mr. West is dated September 1991 and would have been for the actual copy of the WC Survey Plat (actually, I received two copies)

Thereafter Mr. West, in telephone conversations, indicated possession of the other survey plats as well as the survey notes.

To this I requested copies and informed him that I would gladly pay for the cost of any/all expenses necessary to provide me with copies of the available information.

Attached is a copy of a bill which I found while "digging" around looking for other information.

Hey Tom,

I think your giving us (me anyway) a good education as to the kind of information Time-Life had in the early day's of the WC investigation.

Did Time-Life pay the costs [or portion of] for survey work completed?

In your estimation, why did they (LIFE), participate in/commission DP survey work in the first place? They have the in-camera original Z-film and a dupe, whats the advantage? Was there disagreement between the parties (Life, SS, FBI) as to what the plat info told them?

David

Edited March 19, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Thomas H. Purvis]

As they claim in antiques & bloodlines, "provenance" is critical!

The first postmark date on a package received from Mr. West is dated September 1991 and would have been for the actual copy of the WC Survey Plat (actually, I received two copies)

Thereafter Mr. West, in telephone conversations, indicated possession of the other survey plats as well as the survey notes.

To this I requested copies and informed him that I would gladly pay for the cost of any/all expenses necessary to provide me with copies of the available information.

Attached is a copy of a bill which I found while "digging" around looking for other information.

Hey Tom,

I think your giving us (me anyway) a good education as to the kind of information Time-Life had in the early day's of the WC investigation.

Did Time-Life pay the costs [or portion of] for survey work completed?

In your estimation, why did they (LIFE), participate in/commission DP survey work in the first place? They have the in-camera original Z-film and a dupe, whats the advantage? Was there disagreement between the parties (Life, SS, FBI) as to what the plat info told them?

David

I never discussed with Mr. West anything other than payment by the WC/US Government for his survey work.

Typical US Government, Mr. West stated that he like to have never gotten reimbursed due to the "Who" was going to sign for what and who had the authority to sign for what, in regards to approval of expenditures.

And of course, were it not for some "unknowing" person in the National Archives who retrieved the original WC Survey Plat and had a copy of it made and mailed back to Mr. West, guess what we would have today!

NATA!

SPECULATION: As with the actual possession of the original film, and as will be progressively demonstrated, the Time/Life survey would appear to be the absolutely first attempt to subvert the actual facts of the assassination.

It would appear that this attempt by Time/Life as regards the survey & resulting plat, was deemed completely inadequate and/or incorrect by the "Power" at the time, who happened to be the US Secret Service, who had received a first generation copy of the film.

As demonstrated, the Time/Life Survey Plat is hardly something that one would want to claim as "their work", considering the inadequacies merely in it's accuracy of information provided.

And, it gets worse!

It would appear that since the US Secret Service was provided a "first generation copy" of the film, they were in no position to play someone's games.

Their survey work/re-enactment began on 12/2/63, and to date it is the single most complete and unadulterated survey work to exist, not to mention the fact that it also correlates with most of the witness testimony.

It was this, (the SS Survey work and resulting survey plat that the WC/aka Arlen Specter had to overcome and disguise as some "Preliminary Studies".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, we have witnesses today who are Thomas J. Kelley of the Secret Service; Leo J. Gauthier, Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, and Robert A. Frazier of the FBI. They are going to testify concerning certain onsite tests made in Dallas at the scene of the assassination, and of preliminary studies which were made prior to the onsite tests at Dallas.

Mr. SPECTER. Were certain tests made by the Secret Service shortly after the day of the assassination?

Mr. KELLEY. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And were those tests reduced to photographs which were compiled in an album?

Mr. KELLEY. Yes; in Commission Document No. 88, we took some photographs of the scene of the assassination on December 5, 1963, from the window of the Texas Book Depository, and from the street.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is highly unlikely that, from this limited testimony, one would be aware that the SS Survey plat of 12/5/63 was even generated and that actually some four days of survey work (December 2/3/4/ with a full scale re-enactment complete with Lincoln Continental convertable limo and surveyed in positions for JFK conducted on the 5th, actually transpired.

Unless of course one had a copy of the Survey Plat as well as the survey notes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. Was there something special in your viewing of the films which led you to believe that there were more than three shots?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No: it doesn't point out more than three shots, sir.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since Mr. Kellerman was "downrange" on the receiving end, I would assume that he also knew that the Time/Life survey was not in "sync" with what he heard and saw.

As well as his discussions with Greer and others.

Kellerman, from all accounts, took the assassination very personal, and in so doing it would appear that he stuck his nose into things which the WC did not want him into.

But then, I am "jumping ahead" in the Genesis of the manipulations of the survey data.

Ask away, and I will attempt to answer to the extent possible.

Good to hear from you again!

Tom aka (out on the limb Tom)

[Jack White]

Tom...nobody doubts or discounts the great research you did in 1991 in contacting

Mr. West and purchasing prints of the DP plats from him.

However, your adamant refusal to concede that Chester Breneman gave another copy

of this plat to Jim Marrs in 1978 is very puzzling. Jim has no reason to lie about this

and had his xerox of Breneman's plat before you had your print. Your motive for

doubting Jim is unclear.

Gary Mack emailed me:

"Jack, Jim's Star-Telegram story about Breneman was reprinted in the May 1978 Continuing Inquiry. Jim gave me a copy of the map at that time, too. Gary Mack"

Your insistence that you are right though facts indicate otherwise reflects badly on

your other opinions. What have you to gain by saying that somehow Marrs has misrepresented

the copy of the plat he received?

Jack

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom...nobody doubts or discounts the great research you did in 1991 in contacting

Mr. West and purchasing prints of the DP plats from him.

However, your adamant refusal to concede that Chester Breneman gave another copy

of this plat to Jim Marrs in 1978 is very puzzling. Jim has no reason to lie about this

and had his xerox of Breneman's plat before you had your print. Your motive for

doubting Jim is unclear.

Gary Mack emailed me:

"Jack, Jim's Star-Telegram story about Breneman was reprinted in the May 1978 Continuing Inquiry. Jim gave me a copy of the map at that time, too. Gary Mack"

Your insistence that you are right though facts indicate otherwise reflects badly on

your other opinions. What have you to gain by saying that somehow Marrs has misrepresented

the copy of the plat he received?

Jack

The "facts" as stated by Mr. Breneman support that he gave someone a copy of some survey which, based on the reference to "little circles" etc; would appear to most assuredly NOT BE the finished copy of the WC Survey Plat, would appear to be correct.

As to what FACTS you refer as "indicating otherwise" that the copy of a portion of the survey plat which you posted is in fact something that Breneman marked up and gave to someone, I am aware of none.

My "word" because I say so, IS NOT FACT. And for that matter, neither is anyone else's.

The FACT in dispute is as to whether or not the survey plat which you apparantly posted, and which purportedly was a copy of what Mr. Breneman provided someone, is the item of dispute.

And, let me repeat again, and for the last time. "It's a FACT Jack" that the two lines drawn on this portion of the survey plat which imminate from the sixth floor window of the TSDB, with one line ending at what would be approximately Z-204/206, in the middle of Elm St., and the other line ending at Z-313, were ABSOLUTELY drawn onto this portion of the survey plat by MYSELF.

For now, that is merely "my word". As soon as I find some of the copies of this portion of the survey plat which were produced long ago and provided to others, then we will have actual evidence entered into the discussion which may represent the FACTS considerably more than merely my word.

Therefore, in the realm of reality in which I reside, it is impossible for this to be a copy of some portion of a survey plat given to someone by Mr. Breneman in/around 1978 or so, since I did not physically receive these survey plats from Mr. West until September of 1991 and the lines were drawn in by MYSELF at some point thereafter.

Personally, I could care less one way or another except for the absolute MISINFORMATION which someone is attempting to pass off as some form of "gospel" regarding the information which has been handwritten on this drawing.

Since few, if any, accept my stated and claimed location for impact of the first shot fired, it would hardly seem worth the effort to go through this circular reasoning merely to prove something which no one would appear to be ready to accept.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO reference in/on any survey plat, as well as in any survey notes as regards bullet impacts to the Elm St. curb, other than the Tague strike.

I have the surveys and I have the notes.

The purported reference by Mr. Breneman to a JBC hit between the two points, as relates to some Time/Life survey plat is absolute garbage.

There is absolutely no reference to any bullet strike to JBC at any point within the Time/Life Survey.

All of these points are about to be in the process of being proven from the only existing data in the hands of a private researcher. That being myself.

Personally, I could also care little as to how much erroneous information is presented by anyone on this subject. "DeBunking" is John McAdams adopted pastime.

However, when it involves something of which I have a given stake, as in this copy of the survey plat, then I have absolutely no qualms as to presentation of the facts related to the matter, to the public, and let them judge exactly who is confused; blowing smoke; or attempting to present the simple facts of the assassination.

I do not give a rat's ass as to what copy of some survey Mr. Breneman may or may not have given to someone, nor do I care what he may or may not have written on it.

I do care about persons who attempt to take work which I am fully aware of that I produced, and then making some attempt to further confuse the facts of the assassination by adding more garbage and refuse into the subject matter, on a work which I know that I produced.

And in that regards, sooner or later I will come across the box from years ago which contains the ORIGINAL of this portion of the survey plat, which contains ONLY the two drawn in lines.

Then it too will be provided and we can see who has to "run for cover".

Might I recommend that someone associated with this presented portion of the survey plat explain the lack of certain detail/structures on the copy, which would absolutely have to show were this "copy" made from the original.

The answer is simple, in the 1992/1994 time range, all that I had available was my small office copier and I therefore had to make and reduce segments of the drawings in portions, thereafter to tape them together and utilize white-out to cover up tape lines, etc.

Progressively, I will dispute much of the claimed "Breneman" information as written onto the survey, therefor, for someone who obviously was there for some of the work, his memory of what was actually done would appear to be even worse than mine.

So far, it would appear that he has missed the "PORTION OF CURB REMOVED" by one street. But then, the surveyed in and drawn in "Tague" location is South after all, is it not?

When I find the copy of the photo that Mr. West sent me when we discussed "bullet strikes" other than on occupants of the Limo, I will post it as well as he sent it to me due to the fact that it was the only other "claimed" location which he was aware of. That being the curb inlet area.

[John Dolva]

I did pose a minor question, but I'm not sure it was really answered, so to elaborate a bit and repose Q:

Tom, I haven't 'made my mind up' (as if if I did it would make any difference to the truth either way) in looking at the autopsy and other material I can't shake the notion of a shot from the south.

However, I try to be objective and do follow your threads with careful reading (as far as I can with the volume of it). So, I'm not 'against' your premise re the first shot.

__________

with regards to the survey (and you may very well have answered this question, but I can't find a specific sentence that addresses it particularly) when I (long ago now) worked as a survey assistant to a sureveyor in south australia, we roamed statewide on a number of divers projects, and I can't remember (except for a time when we simply guided a bulldozer many kilometers on a straight line through the bush to establish a fence line so levels were not a factor) any instance where one of the first things we did was to not locate a previously determined level and location, which ultimately related to a very initial level established at various points throughout the state.

We'd never go anywhere and just start shooting levels and angles off a object existing or created by us.

This info would be in the very initial worksheet or job description or whatever it's called that the surveyor receives and studies often before arriving on site. This point is located and THEN nails are driven into trees etc. This is partly to be consistent and 'provable', but also to aid relocation in case some 'naughty boy' (or girl) comes along with a pair of pliars to pull the nail out)

I know it's a minor point but do you have the initial job description?

(another point, as survey assistant I was never in personal posession of any of this data, in OZ and I presume in the US this stuff is 'legal' and important, forming (hopefully) indisputable facts. Surveying is an honourable profession of critical importance to a society obsessed with personal land rights.)

Edited March 20, 2006 by John Dolva