William. a question

[Frank Agbat]

I've spent some time contemplating the south knoll shooter concept.

The one nitpicking piece that I've never seen really answered has to do with the SK shooter's line of site. While the position of JFK, his lean angles and facing angles are seemingly well understood, most of the models do not include Jackie. I suspect this is because she is generally considered ancillary in understanding the shooting models.

However, from the SK, does Jackie's position, especially at the head shot, come into play? Does she block a potential shooter?

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Robin Unger]

Photo taken from the sniper's nest on the afternoon of the 22/11/63

The top of one of the book cartons can be seen at the bottom of the image.

Also note the cop cars up on the sidewalk, and the train on the underpass.

This may give a better view of William's general area near the tree.!

Edited October 24, 2006 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Close up of the tree area.

[Steve Thomas]

Tosh,

Does anybody know who this unknown person was?.. the person who "fingered" the TSBD? Do we know what happened to him over the years. Was or did he tell his story to the WC? Was he really a DPD or Secret Service person?

There may have been others, but one person who did identify the TSBD as the source of the shots was Charles Hester. This is what he said in an affidavit:

"The Police rushed toward the railroad tracks and I finally found an officer to go to the Texas Book Depository Building. The officer I contacted was Officer Wiseman [sic: Weitzman] of the Dallas Sheriff's Department."

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hester.htm

Wiseman more or less corroborated this when he wrote in his after action report:

"I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building."

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/wiseman.htm

Steve Thomas

[Frank Agbat]

Frank: The above photo will perhaps help as to the angles between Jackie and JFK.

...

William,

Thank you -- it does provide a great deal of clarity. I took the liberty to compare your notes with Don Roberdeau's survey of DP. Unfortunately, Mr. Roberdeau's fabulous work does not show much of the South Knoll and Pergola area. However, by mentally superimposing your drawing with his, I get a much better notion of the angles involved.

I also had to take a dose of my own medicine. I realized that Jackie appears closer to JFK in the Z-film due to the distance compression effect that certain types of lenses (telephoto, zoom, etc) tend to introduce. Cross-referencing the appropriate Z-frames with, for example, the Moorman polaroid clears this up in a jiffy.

I also considered any potential Z-Axis impediments. Again, the side-window on the limo looked like it might come into play. However, when cross-referencing is done, any elevation from the south would easily eliminate this as a possible obstruction.

One thing really jumped out at me while I was performing this exercise.

On Mr. Roberdeau's drawing, he notes the following: "Couch testifies that he, L'Hoste, and several other persons saw an 8" to 10" pool of blood here." An arrow points to a red dot on the sidewalk that extends parallel to the Elm Street extension. If one extends a line from this point through the limo location at Z313, and continues it onto the south knoll, it leads to a point that matches your drawing with chilling precision.

Of course, I don't know if this has any bearing on anything!

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[John Dolva]

William, or anyone, how would the sniper deal with brass spitting unpredictably?

also on this image (composite of Robins post and cars from zfilm) to pinpoint where you and Sergio were standing, can you use the abc 123 grid please? The path taken is highlighted. It seems to follow a faintly visible track in the grass when going diagonally up and down. Also I can't see any railing (on Robins post) which has been a bit of a bugbear in the past. Did you or Sergio carry anything that could have been mistaken as such?

Edited October 25, 2006 by John Dolva

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Ryan Crowe]

Very Very interesting gents, ive never been able to go against the south knoll location, as some of you have seen in previous posts I have made.

I have never been to DP, But when I see these pictures of the south knoll, it makes it even easier to say the south knoll is PRIME. I never knew how the rail road is sloped upward from the parking lot, shooters look for a sense of security, and the south knoll gives alot of that, lots of places to hide.

As for brass catchers, if one is using a bolt action, one can easily police there brass after ejection, in a semi auto, with a spotter on location, both spotter and shooter basically know where that rifles brass will be thrown, for instance, all three of my M1 Garands throw brass at 2-3 oclock location, in dirt there will be a nice, not so spread out pile of brass. If this location was used, and they did a "shoot and scoot" there could be brass still up there. Was thise area ever searched after? Tosh is correct about a brass catcher/ bag. The only problem I have had, and its a big one, is if the bag isnt just right, you can have empties bounce back into the reciever and get a jam that would ruin any chance of another shot.

[John Dolva]

Thank you Wiliam. Now thats's clear.

(Thank you Robin for posting that Pic)

Just one more thing. Which sjde of the tree is the path you took.

The rail I mentioned is the one that has been seen faintly in the Cancellare runninbg diagonally where you descended from where you were standing. Remember we looked at that some months ago and couldn't come up with a contemporary image to support your contention that there was no rail. Well here is such an image posted by Robin taken on the day. There is no rail as you said. (The balustrade I see clearly.)

So were you or Sergio carryibg something that could have looked like the rail?

It's the brass spitting at somethng like 2-3 oclock that would worry me in that it could go over the balustrade. So a bag of some kind? What would it look like?

Edited October 25, 2006 by John Dolva

[Robin Unger]

Thank you Wiliam. Now thats's clear.

(Thank you Robin for posting that Pic)

Just one more thing. Which sjde of the tree is the path you took.

The rail I mentioned is the one that has been seen faintly in the Cancellare runninbg diagonally where you descended from where you were standing. Remember we looked at that some months ago and couldn't come up with a contemporary image to support your contention that there was no rail. Well here is such an image posted by Robin taken on the day. There is no rail as you said. (The balustrade I see clearly.)

So were you or Sergio carryibg something that could have looked like the rail?

It's the brass spitting at somethng like 2-3 oclock that would worry me in that it could go over the balustrade. So a bag of some kind? What would it look like?

Your welcome John.

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 2, 2006 by William Plumlee

[John Dolva]

this 'rail'.