Throat Wound

[Ashton Gray]

I think it's clear from her later disclaimer that Bowron did not see any

other wound when she was standing on the other side of the car.

It appears she was under the impression Specter was asking her if she saw

any other wound at that exact moment -- and the answer was, "No, sir."

Here is how she testified under oath on 24 March 1964:

SPECTER: How many holes did you see?

BOWRON: I just saw one large hole [referring to hole in head].

SPECTER: ...Did you notice any other wound on the President's body?

BOWRON: No, sir.

SPECTER: ...Did you ever see his [John F. Kennedy's] neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube?

BOWRON: No, sir.

There's more:

• SPECTER: While the doctors were working on President Kennedy, did you ever have any opportunity to observe his neck?
  BOWRON: No; I didn't, until afterwards..
  SPECTER: Until after what?
  BOWRON: Until after they had pronounced him dead and we cleaned up and removed the trach tube...
  SPECTER: Did you ever see his [John F. Kennedy's] neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube?
  BOWRON: No, sir.
  

Ashton

[Cliff Varnell]

I'm curious what significance is found in Bowron's WC mis-statements.

When was Jackie Kennedy, Will Greer, and Roy Kellerman NOT with the

body after the arrival at Parkland?

[Ashton Gray]

Was there a throat wound upon arrival at Parkland Hospital or not?

Here is relevant testimony of three Secret Service agent eyewitnesses:

SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL AGENT WILLIAM ROBERT GREER, DRIVER

• SPECTER: Were you able to observe any wound on the front side of the President?
  GREER: No, sir; I didn't, I never seen any on the front side of the President. The only thing I saw was on the head. I didn't know at the time of any other injuries on him.
  SPECTER: As to the front side of the President's body, were you able to observe any hole or tear in either his shirt or tie?
  GREER: No, sir; I didn't and I brought them back, those things, and didn't see them at the time.
  

SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL AGENT CLINT HILL

• SPECTER: Did you have any opportunity to observe the front part of his body, to see whether there was any tear or rip in the clothing on the front?
  HILL: I saw him lying there in the back of the car, when I was immediately above him. I cannot recall noticing anything that was ripped in the forward portion of his body.
  

SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL ROY H. KELLERMAN

• SPECTER: Do you have any knowledge of that wound on the front side [purported throat wound] aside from the written report of Dr. Kemp Clark?
  KELLERMAN: Except that in the morgue it was very visible that they had incisioned him here to insert the tracheotomy that they performed on him.
  COOPER: ...You are saying this, then: that you did not see, yourself, at any time the mark of any wound in his neck front?
  KELLERMAN: When we took him into the hospital in Dallas; that is right. ...when we took him in the hospital in Dallas, I did not.
  COOPER: Did you ever see it?
  KELLERMAN: ...I didn't see it, sir.
  COOPER: What you saw yourself?
  KELLERMAN: No; I didn't.
  SPECTER: ...You saw the President's face, though, at a later time as you have described?
  KELLERMAN: Yes, thank you. ...While he lay on the stretcher in that emergency room his collar and everything is up and I saw nothing in his face to indicate an injury, whether the shot had come through or not. He was clear.
  FORD: But while he was on the stretcher in the emergency room you saw his face?
  KELLERMAN: That is right.
  FORD: But he had his tie and his collar still—
  KELLERMAN: Still on.
  FORD: Still on?
  KELLERMAN: Yes, sir.
  SPECTER: ...Did you observe any blood on the portion of his body in the neck area or anyplace in the front of his body?
  KELLERMAN: I don't recall any.
  SPECTER: ...Did you observe any hole in the clothing of the President on the front part, in the shirt or tie area?
  KELLERMAN: No, sir.
  SPECTER: From your observation of the wound which you observed in the morgue which you have described as a tracheotomy, would that have been above or below the shirtline when the President was clothed ?
  KELLERMAN: It would have been below the shirtline, sir.
  

Ashton Gray

[Cliff Varnell]

Was there a throat wound upon arrival at Parkland Hospital or not?

And on what basis do you impeach the two contemporaneous reports

and the 6 other witness statements to the effect there was an entrance

wound in his throat?

You impeach all these people by disputing Diana Bowron?

[Ashton Gray]

The purported gunshot wound to the throat, which proponents claim was the earliest wound, did not bleed onto the shirt or tie.

There was no bullet hole in the shirt or in the tie.

All visual evidence show the tracheotomy hacking—where the alleged "bullet wound" purportedly had been—to be below the shirt collar line on the neck. Secret Service Agent Roy H. Kellerman testified that the tracheotomy opening was "below the shirtline."

There was no complementary wound to the purported throat gunshot wound: no exit wound to account for an entry wound, no entry wound to account for an exit wound.

No eyewitness ever saw a throat wound, or any indication at all that a bullet or projectile had passed into or out of John F. Kennedy's throat, until he was in Trauma Room One, his tie had been cut off of him, and his shirt front opened. The one and only "exception" is nurse Diana Bowron, whose story uniquely changed. She first testified under oath that she never saw any throat wound at all, having never gotten a look at Kennedy's neck until she removed the tracheotomy aparatus after the President had been pronounced dead. She later claimed, though, to have seen the throat wound at the limosine when she was helping to get John F. Kennedy out of the limosine and onto the stretcher she had brought out with someone named "Joe."

Once President Kennedy had been transported to Trauma Room 1, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill left Trauma Room One before SS Special Agent Kellerman, who came out shortly thereafter.

When Secret Service Special Agent Roy Kellerman last saw John F. Kennedy in Trauma Room One, Kennedy "had his tie and his collar still on."

Agent Kellerman left Trauma Room 1, and shortly thereafter Mrs. Kennedy was convinced by a person or persons unknown to leave Trauma Room One. According to Kellerman, "she sat outside the room while they were working over the President."

Agent Clint Hill had left Trauma Room One before Kellerman—who last saw Kennedy with "his tie and his collar still on." Clint Hill also says that Mrs. Kennedy "was convinced to wait outside, which she did, remained there the rest of the period of time that we were there."

Ashton Gray

Edited January 5, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Robin Unger]

quote:

SPECTER: ...Did you observe any blood on the portion of his body in the neck area or anyplace in the front of his body?

KELLERMAN: I don't recall any

Take another look Mr Kellerman, now what do you see ?

[Nick Bartetzko]

Anyone else here from the "Old School" in which one was expected to gain "First Person" information and knowledge for their research to carry any validity?

Tom

I have been out of town and am now catching up on old posts. I will keep my response brief as it is past midnight here. Harold Weisberg, in his book Post Mortem, interviewed Drs Carrico, Perry and McClelland on 12-1-71 at Parkland Hospital. Dr Carrico told Weisberg that he was certain he saw a bullet hole above the level of the collar and there were no holes in the clothing. Weisberg speculated that damage to the clothing was caused by the nurses cutting off the clothing. Dr Perry told Weisberg that he wiped blood from the wound, noted a ring of bruising, and then began the tracheotomy incision. This differs from Perry's response to you many years later. The relevant pages in the book are 375-379. Based on the interview, Perry was an avid hunter and experienced in firearms and ammunition. Could you confirm if a "ring of bruising" as described by Perry is indeed indicative of an entry wound and would you deem this significant if true?

Nick

[Cliff Varnell]

Robin, Nick, Tom

Thank you, gentlemen.

I've run out of "A" tickets for this particular Parlor Game ride.

[Antti Hynonen]

Interesting discussion.

Not much to debate in my opinion. Kennedy had a wound in his neck, below the adam's apple, upon arrival at Parkland. This fact is based on the early descriptions of this wound by Parkland staff, it was most likely a bullet wound (entry wound).

What is more interesting of a debate is what happened to the bullet after it hit the throat?

Neck tie with a nick, most likely caused by a bullet.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/jfk7/ce395.htm

Edited January 5, 2007 by Antti Hynonen

[Thomas H. Purvis]

For clarification:

The ONLY FBI Agent from the Lab who is known to have examined the clothing of JFK, has stated:

1. Recalls absolutely no damage to the front of the shirt in the vicinity of the collar button, and conducted absolutely no examination of this area.

Therefore, the "bullet hole" at the shirt button remains a speculative item.

2. The tie had an "abraised" area (not a nick & no fabric missing). The abraised area was X-rayed and found to contain metallic residue.

Thereafter, this FBI Agent, the only one to physically examine the clothing of JFK, as well as the only person qualified to give DIRECT TESTIMONY in regards to this laboratory examination, was shipped off to Atlanta, GA to evaluate "Oswald was Here", found written in chalk on the inside of an abandoned railroad boxcar.

Thereafter, this FBI Agent was directed to devote ALL of his time and attention to determination as to who made the chalk.

"I don't know what the hell that was all about! That was the biggest waste of my time. I eventually determined who manufactured the chalk but it proved nothing, and we all knew that Oswald was dead and buried"

3. Laboratory/Evidence Evaluation Reports were completed on ALL tests which were conducted. I was basically informed that these reports would prove what clothing was evaluated, by what means, and the results. That one should get them in event there was any doubt.

4. That someone must be confusing the "nick" where fabric was removed from the tie which contained the metallic residue which was found by X-ray, and that one of the other Laboratory Technical Personnel must have done this.

Lastly, none of the others even touched the clothing of JFK. Being the proverbial "doubting Thomas", I long ago located and spoke with each and every one of them.

The WC testimony as regards what was found during the evaluation of the clothing of JFK is a complete mis-representation of the facts.

It is ALL hearsay testimony, and all that FBI Agent Frazier can recall is that he was shown some papers which stated what he testified to, and even this he can not recall if these were shown to him by Specter or through the normal FBI chain of documents.

[Ashton Gray]

Dr Carrico told Weisberg that he was certain he saw a bullet hole above the level of the collar and there were no holes in the clothing.

Could you quote the relevant passage? Thanks.

Dr Perry told Weisberg that he wiped blood from the wound, noted a ring of bruising, and then began the tracheotomy incision. This differs from Perry's response to you many years later.

Indeed.

Perry was an avid hunter and experienced in firearms and ammunition.

There are many facets to Malcolm Perry.

Ashton Gray

[Ashton Gray]

The ONLY FBI Agent from the Lab who is known to have examined the clothing of JFK, has stated:

1. Recalls absolutely no damage to the front of the shirt in the vicinity of the collar button, and conducted absolutely no examination of this area.

That is the fall-down funniest thing I have read in ages.

Can't thank you enough. This has gotten my new year off to a rollicking start.

(I think the dry delivery is what brought it to laugh-to-tears-level. Priceless. I hope the Brits are paying attention.)

Ashton

Edited January 5, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Dawn Meredith]

The ONLY FBI Agent from the Lab who is known to have examined the clothing of JFK, has stated:

1. Recalls absolutely no damage to the front of the shirt in the vicinity of the collar button, and conducted absolutely no examination of this area.

That is the fall-down funniest thing I have read in ages.

Can't thank you enough. This has gotten my new year off to a rollicking start.

(I think the dry delivery is what brought it to laugh-to-tears-level. Priceless. I hope the Brits are paying attention.)

Ashton

I agree, that is funny!.

Ashton, you are really making me re-think this whole throat wound issue. I appreciate all the work you have done here.

Dawn

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Laughter is of course great! Resolving what this "shell game" is all about is even better though.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

FBI Laboratory Technician Henry Heiberger told me that I must be confusing the "Nick" with where some other FBI Lab personnel had removed that portion of the tie which was abraised and which contained the metallic residue which he had discovered by X-ray, prior to being dispatched to the "Oswald was Here" escapade.

However, absolutely none of the other FBI Laboratory personnel claimed to have examined any of the clothing of JFK.

Having located and spoken with them all, and in some cases repeated times, all personnel from the Spectrographic Analysis Section of the FBI Lab denied any examinations and testing of any of the clothing worn by JFK, with the exception of FBI Agent Henry Heiberger.

Who was thereafter fully occupied in determination of who manufactured the chalk which was utilized to write "Oswald was Here" on the inside of an abandoned RR boxcar which was found in Atlanta, GA.

"I don't know what the hell that was all about! That was the biggest waste of my time."

Henry Heiberger