New JFK Dallas film surfaces in Dallas

[James Richards]

Just a question regarding George Jefferies himself; does anyone know if he is the same George Jefferies who at the time of the assassination, was on the Executive Committee at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co.?

James

The answer is yes. Thank you Gary Mack.

James

[Myra Bronstein]

Just a question regarding George Jefferies himself; does anyone know if he is the same George Jefferies who at the time of the assassination, was on the Executive Committee at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co.?

James

The answer is yes. Thank you Gary Mack.

James

Do you think that fact is significant to the assassination James?

[Bernice Moore]

Post # 58

Quote"

"Can someone do a side-by-side comparison of the above film frame (rotated 90 degrees) with the 11-22-63 evening Bethesda autopsy photo captured of the president's left profile that is cropped from below his neck wound, to the top of his head?"

Don Roberdeau

**********************

Hi Don:

I think this is what you wanted to see.....?

*********

Myra:

I think the photo of JFK is around 1957, he was a Senator, that is E.T Smith US Ambassador to Cuba, with him....It is from the E.F..

B.

[James Richards]

Just a question regarding George Jefferies himself; does anyone know if he is the same George Jefferies who at the time of the assassination, was on the Executive Committee at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co.?

James

The answer is yes. Thank you Gary Mack.

James

Do you think that fact is significant to the assassination James?

Myra,

At this stage, the answer to that is no.

James

[Jack White]

Has anyone determined exactly where on Main Street this film was shot?

Jack

[Myra Bronstein]

Just a question regarding George Jefferies himself; does anyone know if he is the same George Jefferies who at the time of the assassination, was on the Executive Committee at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co.?

James

The answer is yes. Thank you Gary Mack.

James

Do you think that fact is significant to the assassination James?

Myra,

At this stage, the answer to that is no.

James

Thank you Bernice and James for the info/reply.

[Charles Black]

I suppose that many of you have "speculated" as have I, regarding the "timing" of this NEW FIND.

I take this to be a media sneak preview of what Mr. Bugliosi will no doubt "heavily" weigh on, in his 1600 page forthcoming book, which shall prove to all, the validity of the Warren Report; except possibly for its few insignificant and honest errors.

It has begun ! We will be led down those same worn out paths, the purpose of which is to further ensnare the research community in those very time consuming re re re-discussions.

Since the only seeming "evidentiary" value of this film seems to be once again "coat bunching".....I cannot fail to wholeheartedly believe that a major point in Bugliosi's work will have to do with this so called "bunching". Many more thousands of pages and millions of words and hours will be wasted on a

"not even new TANGENT" that can absolutely prove nothing other than it can waste more time. Time is the conspiracy's greatest ally, and the wasting of researchers time on insignificant matters, is their time proven method. Why will it not work again? We continue to make the exact same mistakes and bewilderingly wonder why we come up with the same answers.

Since the passage of time strengthens their cause; and enough waste of it will definitely weaken the ability to PROVE conspiracy.....I feel that "THEY" know that the continous trolling of even the same worn out and rotting bait, will catch a few more of the less knowledgeable, as those that have long studied this issue, die away or give up in disgust.

Yes I expect Mr. B to strongly lead us toward the legitimacy of "bunched coats" and possibly bullet riccochet, as he will attempt to slowly and logically "lengthen" the actual time of the firing of the shots, by that quick shot artist Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is the same Oswald, that was reported by some of his hunting companions in Russia, to be unable to even hit a still rabbit with a shotgun.

I expect that my curiosity will force me to waste probably $60.00 on another "SELL OUT OF AMERICA",

by another brilliant "bastion of integrity".

After all.....he did win that case which exposed that ultra complex Helter Skelter conspiracy !

If our British forum members play their cards right, they may be able to turn Mr. B. loose on that other genious..... Jack the Ripper !

Charlie Black

[Don Jeffries]

It is truly amazing how we have the "bunched up" theory to explain the inconvenient location of bullet holes, the "magic bullet" theory to explain the total lack of damage on a missile that supposedly caused 7 wounds and the "neuromuscular jet effect" to explain the head shot's violation of the laws of physics. Yet the conspiracy theorists are the "wackos."

...

That is one of the best comments ever Don. I'd make it my sig line if President Kennedy wasn't so darn quotable.

Thanks, Myra. I enjoy reading your posts, too.

[James Richards]

Just a question regarding George Jefferies himself; does anyone know if he is the same George Jefferies who at the time of the assassination, was on the Executive Committee at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co.?

James

The answer is yes. Thank you Gary Mack.

James

Do you think that fact is significant to the assassination James?

Myra,

At this stage, the answer to that is no.

James

I want to stress that I am not suggesting anything sinister here at all, I just wanted to add some flavor to the mix.

Chairman of the Board at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co. was a man by the name of Julius Schepps who amongst other things was a close friend of John Connally and a mentor to Henry Zapruder, Abe's son.

In addition, a Director at Universal Life was R.G. Storey who is one of the more interesting characters one can research. Remembering that when Earl Warren visited Jack Ruby, Storey accompanied him. There is a thread dedicated to Storey here -

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...3&hl=Storey

A forum archive search of R.G. Storey also has some curious information.

FWIW.

James

Edited February 22, 2007 by James Richards

[Ash Grimes]

While yes, I do believe this is a very interesting piece of footage and I'm glad we have it, and it certainly suggests that there are people who have footage or photographs that have not yet come forward even now - I don't think it's nearly as important as some people are making it out to be. At the end of the day, photos and video from nearly 45 years ago can be open to interpretation as a result of the poor quality.

[Cliff Varnell]

While yes, I do believe this is a very interesting piece of footage and I'm glad we have it, and it certainly suggests that there are people who have footage or photographs that have not yet come forward even now - I don't think it's nearly as important as some people are making it out to be. At the end of the day, photos and video from nearly 45 years ago can be open to interpretation as a result of the poor quality.

Ash,

The Jefferies film is important only because it allowed LNers like

Gerald Posner to step into an evidentiary trap.

According to Posner, the Jefferies film shows JFK's jacket in

the "precise" location required by the SBT.

In Jefferies, the jacket rode up over the top of the shirt collar.

But in the Towner film -- taken within a few seconds of the shooting -- the

shirt collar is clearly visible.

http://www.jfk-online.com/Towner.mpg

Ergo, the jacket dropped, and by Posner's own analysis the SBT is debunked.

The JFK cover-up has destroyed itself over this issue, mark my words.

[Ash Grimes]

While yes, I do believe this is a very interesting piece of footage and I'm glad we have it, and it certainly suggests that there are people who have footage or photographs that have not yet come forward even now - I don't think it's nearly as important as some people are making it out to be. At the end of the day, photos and video from nearly 45 years ago can be open to interpretation as a result of the poor quality.

Ash,

The Jefferies film is important only because it allowed LNers like

Gerald Posner to step into an evidentiary trap.

According to Posner, the Jefferies film shows JFK's jacket in

the "precise" location required by the SBT.

In Jefferies, the jacket rode up over the top of the shirt collar.

But in the Towner film -- taken within a few seconds of the shooting -- the

shirt collar is clearly visible.

http://www.jfk-online.com/Towner.mpg

Ergo, the jacket dropped, and by Posner's own analysis the SBT is debunked.

The JFK cover-up has destroyed itself over this issue, mark my words.

I don't think it's the end of the cover-up at all, really. They managed to keep SOMEONE believing 45 years later, even if the number drops more and more every year. Sure, Posner will go on as the spokesman of the SBT, and some housewife somewhere will think, "That fella with the plastic face has a point!" At the end of the day, though, people continue not believing them, although most people aren't as die-hard into the belief of a conspiracy as some of us and most people don't have a clue as to how deep they think it goes.

People are stupid. I hate to sound rude, but, considering the people I've met in my college courses, I feel quite confident in that statement. They also don't want anything to shake what they believe in, and apparantly, there's still a large number of people who want to believe that all elements in our government are good and happy and positive. It's an odd form of denial, I suppose, but they'll have it long after it's been proven by the research community.

[William O'Neil]

Cliff you are correct. Look at the body and autopsy face sheet, and then read where people who saw the wound, place it. To get the wound entry hole up to where the LNers need it, would create a bulge as big as the Hunchback of Notre Dame. If the suit is fitted correctly, it should be almost impossible to move the back of the jacket that far up, as the tension around the armpit area will restrict it from moving that far vertically. Try it yourself or ask a tailor or habadasher (sic?)

[Cliff Varnell]

While yes, I do believe this is a very interesting piece of footage and I'm glad we have it, and it certainly suggests that there are people who have footage or photographs that have not yet come forward even now - I don't think it's nearly as important as some people are making it out to be. At the end of the day, photos and video from nearly 45 years ago can be open to interpretation as a result of the poor quality.

Ash,

The Jefferies film is important only because it allowed LNers like

Gerald Posner to step into an evidentiary trap.

According to Posner, the Jefferies film shows JFK's jacket in

the "precise" location required by the SBT.

In Jefferies, the jacket rode up over the top of the shirt collar.

But in the Towner film -- taken within a few seconds of the shooting -- the

shirt collar is clearly visible.

http://www.jfk-online.com/Towner.mpg

Ergo, the jacket dropped, and by Posner's own analysis the SBT is debunked.

The JFK cover-up has destroyed itself over this issue, mark my words.

I don't think it's the end of the cover-up at all, really.

Why not? All it takes is for an aroused citizenry to demand the

mainstream media give coverage to the Towner film -- which

according to Posner's own analysis destroys the SBT.

What evidence could be more simple, concrete, irrefutable?

Jacket up on Main St, jacket down on Elm St.

Jacket down = 4+ shots and thus a conspiracy covered-up at the highest

level of the US government.

How does it get any more simple and obvious than that?

They managed to keep SOMEONE believing 45 years later, even if the number drops more and more every year.

That's the point. Rome wasn't built in a day and the JFK cover-up

won't be destroyed in a day.

Posner made a serious mis-step -- he drew a conclusion from a film

that is obviously trumped by another film.

We need to rub the Towner film in the noses of the Big Liars like

the New York Times.

Sure, Posner will go on as the spokesman of the SBT, and some housewife somewhere will think, "That fella with the plastic face has a point!"

So? It's an information war. Posner claims the jacket was up on Main St.,

but the Dealey Plaza films and photos show the jacket dropped.

It doesn't get any more clear cut than that.

At the end of the day, though, people continue not believing them, although most people aren't as die-hard into the belief of a conspiracy as some of us and most people don't have a clue as to how deep they think it goes.

People are stupid. I hate to sound rude, but, considering the people I've met in my college courses, I feel quite confident in that statement. They also don't want anything to shake what they believe in, and apparantly, there's still a large number of people who want to believe that all elements in our government are good and happy and positive. It's an odd form of denial, I suppose, but they'll have it long after it's been proven by the research community.

The German people had to come to terms with their Nazi past.

The Soviet people had to come to terms with their Stalinist past.

The American people need to come to terms with the fact that

the 35th President of the United States was murdered as the

result of a conspiracy, which was covered up at the highest levels

of the US government.

The well documented drop of JFK's jacket in Dealey Plaza is the handiest

cudgel with which we can beat this fact into the heads of the mainstream

media.

I don't care how long it takes: that JFK was murdered by a conspiracy

is not a theory, it is an easily observed historical fact.

Edited February 25, 2007 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Cliff you are correct. Look at the body and autopsy face sheet, and then read where people who saw the wound, place it. To get the wound entry hole up to where the LNers need it, would create a bulge as big as the Hunchback of Notre Dame. If the suit is fitted correctly, it should be almost impossible to move the back of the jacket that far up, as the tension around the armpit area will restrict it from moving that far vertically. Try it yourself or ask a tailor or habadasher (sic?)

Bingo! A tucked-in custom-made dress shirt -- especially the slim

cut Euro number favored by JFK -- only has a fraction of an inch

of available slack to allow the wearer to move comfortably and

look good.

Lone Nutters and their Vichy-CT partners (hi John Hunt!) couldn't

get a tucked-in shirt to ride up 3 inches if they reached back and

pulled with both hands.

The corroborating evidence of the T3 back wound is mountainous:

3 official contemporaneous documents and the witness statements

of more than a dozen people who got a good, prolonged look at

the wound.

JFK's back wound was at T3 -- no theory, just fact.