the 1963 Secret Service

[Shanet Clark]

You accelerate..........period.

[Charles Black]

Hello Mark

An excellent analogy. In football, for example, if all of the offensive players complete their assignments, the play which is called would pick up the yardage that it was designed to.

But a simple error such as a receiver misreading a defense, can place him in a position which negates the successful completion of a play....even if the receiver in question is an "All Pro".

As Kennedy pointed out "....we are all mortal" !

The receiver having made a mistake; should lead no sensible person to believe that the player was being paid to "throw the game".... as well as the offensive lineman who did not interpret the defensive scheme correctly, and "missed his necessary block" !

This type of event is evidence that the world's most acknowledged players, who are the best that money can buy....."all have limitations"!

As do government agents !

Charles Black

[Charles Black]

You accelerate..........period.

Shanet

Your comment is stated in such a decidedly decisive and convincing manner, I suppose that you would not mind sharing with some of we, "the less experienced" members, the training procedure which you apparently have experienced, that is in conflict with centuries old, more common directives.

For those of you who have studied military history,

this was similar to General George Custer's last miltary directive. He ordered a "charge" without knowing the position or strength of his enemy. It has been universally condemned since June 26, 1876 by all tactical authority ! These tactics are not merely centuries old...but have been followed for millenia!

Perhaps you are aware of "better procedure".

Why do some of you insist on arguing with very well accepted professional reason? These are not "My Personal" opinions.

Charles Black

[John Dolva]

IMO, as armchair commentator : The consequences of acceleration and some sharp weaving (which the souped up engine was very capable of even though the Limo was very heavy) is that the targets are shaken about and displaced and the shooters more exposed as they take more desperate action. Kellerman should have shouted "FLOOR IT" and clambered over anything in his way to cover Kennedy at the first sign of a problem. This would have drawn the Queen Mary into action and they could then disperse armed personnel at any point. Instead there was inaction and steady speeds.

[Charles Black]

Hello John

You, as everyone, is of course entitled to their personal opinion.

However, since I cannot even begin to understand some of the members reasoning, that as I have stated, I think, four different times....that if you wish to dispel and overide ALL military and tactical reasoning, which this EXACT reasoning has been established by, and followed by, the best military minds in recorded history ...... I accept that you have that right!

Perhaps it is time that these "very old" tactics should be set aside in favor of twenty first century genius.

At any rate, I have attempted to point out what I was once taught....tho perhaps now it is antiquated. I would not like it said that I am attempting to stymy "progress" !

Since all that I can offer is what has been proven, since the recording of history, to have been absolutely sound and unquestioned strategy, except here on this advanced forum.....I feel that I have nothing more to offer.

I was not attemptng to advance "A Personal Opinion".

I was simply trying to educate those who were perhaps fortunate enough to not have undergone the same type of training that was required of me.

I suppose however, it is difficult for a non educator, to attempt to educate the already truly educated.

You should believe whatever it is that makes you happy !

Charles Black

[Duke Lane]

IMO, as armchair commentator : The consequences of acceleration and some sharp weaving (which the souped up engine was very capable of even though the Limo was very heavy) is that the targets are shaken about and displaced and the shooters more exposed as they take more desperate action. Kellerman should have shouted "FLOOR IT" and clambered over anything in his way to cover Kennedy at the first sign of a problem. This would have drawn the Queen Mary into action and they could then disperse armed personnel at any point. Instead there was inaction and steady speed.

I agree with you as well as with Charles (despite his often heavy sarcasm), especially his point about General George Custer (one wonders how he ever became a general without having some of these rudimentary tactical procedures taught to him!).

As another "armchair" (meaning "not trained in the subject") observer, let me make a few observations:

1) Greer was driving essentially into a box canyon: tho' the underpass did provide an exit "through the mountain," so to speak, and even protection from attackers on the ground above, there was absolutely no guarantee that there would not have been additional attackers either within the "tunnel" of the underpass, or somehow positioned at the exit. Had there been, and Greer had driving full-speed into them, his charge would be just as dead (and so might he be) and we'd be vilifying him for a different bad judgement call today. I think Shanet's "accelerate ... period" does not always apply ... which might have something to do with why security drivers are taught how to use a "bootlegger's turn" to escape backward!

2) Appearing to drive into an ambush, one can drive farther into it or attempt to retreat from it. In this case, retreat would have been particularly difficult if not entirely impossible given the parade of cars behind the limo. Turning around would have been a huge time delay, again if even possible given the curbs (the given reason why the parade couldn't go over from Main St ... tho' why temporary ramps couldn't have been improvised is beyond me) and the weight of the vehicle (the other reason for the same). The Queen Mary was right behind him, so the aforementioned bootlegger's turn probably had no applicability.

3) The agents described the shooting as a "fusillade" of shots; WC apologists like to cite the "echo patterns" of the plaza to refute the so-called acoustic evidence. Point being: where are the shots coming from? Supposedly, they were all coming from behind ... tho' witnesses (including all the DCSO folks who ran to the knoll ... despite Jerry Hill's recent denial that "any trained law enforcement people" thought shots originated from there!) were of the opinion they came from the railroad yards. So, was Greer driving away from the attacker(s), or toward him or them? And of course, were there more in the dark tunnel ahead?

4) The idea of Kellerman lunging to cover JFK while Greer accelerated is ludicrous. First, there is the "roll bar" that was immediately behind him, which he'd first have to either scale or climb through. If the latter, he'd then have to crawl across the Connallys' laps to get to his boss, covering him first from below; if the former, the effect of his backward rush over a taller structure coupled with the loss of "ground" beneath his feet as Greer "gunned" it (no pun intended) coupled with Kennedy now coming toward him even faster than before could well have transformed Kellerman into the "assassination weapon:" imagine a 200-lb man falling toward you from above as you rushed into him, your back pressed against the unyielding seat of an accelerating, heavy limousine ... that is, if he didn't take off Connally's head first, or just crash into him and be stopped before, once again, getting to his boss! "The operation was a success; unfortunately, the patient died."

5) Someone here had once posited - I forget who and what their experience had been, if any - and it made much sense to me that USSS (or any) security drivers are taught to position their right foot on the gas and their left foot over the brake so that either can be used with as little delay as possible as the situation requires. Thus, when Greer heard something over his shoulder - "oh, no, no," "they're going to kill us all," or whatever - and turned around to his right, the effect was to put his foot on the brake. Maybe, maybe not, but it at least sounds sensible. I might be able to find out for certain, but it's a long shot.

6) On-the-ground security was not - and generally is not - the responsibility of USSS personnel in any motorcade (i.e., when POTUS/VP or other charge is vehicular; when they alight to go, for instance, into a building, it becomes theirs), and in this case was explicitly that of DPD. Security details do not leave their charge, for once they do, the charge has no more security. The detail is not a "posse" out to "get the bad guy," but exactly what they're called: security. They would not "disperse armed personnel" in any case, even though those in QM were, in fact, armed. If that were to have been the case - if they should have hunted down the assassins - they could have and would have done so when the limo sped off (they heard the shots, too, after all!) instead of staying with POTUS. QED.

If one wants to find fault with the ambush having been able to succeed, put it where it belongs: DPD. While they had two and three cops posted at every intersection along the parade route - one on motorcycle, and one or two on foot - they had a total of only six in all of Dealey Plaza: two (on foot) at Main & Houston; two (also on foot) at Elm & Houston; and two on the bridge (on foot and inaccessible to the roadway), one facing east into the plaza, the other assigned to watch westward, away from it. None of them could have gotten to any trouble spot very quickly at street level once the motorcade had made its last turn, and none did ... and, in fact, none tried.

These are observations that make me happy - elated and euphoric, even! - and thus not subject to derision for not sharing in the same ideals as others.

[Bernice Moore]

What Greer should have done

The relevant rule set forth in the Secret Service document outlining principles of Presidential protection states: "The driver of the President’s car should be alert for dangers and be able to take instant action when instructed or otherwise made aware of an emergency [emphasis added]."45 Former Inspector and Assis-tant Director Thomas Kelley told the HSCA: "… generally the instructions to the drivers of the cars are to be prepared to get the President away from any dan-gerous situation."46 For his part, Chief Rowley wrote to the Warren Commission: "The Secret Service has consistently followed two general principals in emergen-cies involving the President. All agents are so instructed. The first duty of the agents in the motorcade is to attempt to cover the President as closely as possi-ble and practicable and to shield him by attempting to place themselves be-tween the President and any source of danger. Secondly, agents are instructed to remove the President as quickly as possible from known or impending danger. Agents are instructed that it is not their responsibility to investigate or evaluate a present danger, but to consider any untoward circumstances as serious and to afford the President maximum protection at all times. No responsibility rests upon those agents near the President for the identification or arrest of an as-sassin or attacker. Their primary responsibility is to stay with and protect the President."47 [Emphasis added.] In addition, the Secret Service liked to maintain speeds of at least 20–30 miles per hour during motorcades.48

What actually happened

The sequence is crucial:

1. First shot (or shots) rings out: the car slows with brake lights on.

2. Greer turns around once.

3. Kellerman orders Greer to "get out of line; we’ve been hit!".

4. Greer disobeys his superior’s order and turns around to stare at JFK for the second time, until after the fatal headshot finds its mark!

As Patricia (Billings) Lambert noted in her landmark 1976 article about the agency, Five Seconds to Save the President: "What is particularly disturbing about the behavior of the Secret Service agents guarding the President in Dallas is the degree of uniformity in their response, their almost total non-reaction at the crucial moment: Roberts did not shout a warning; Greer did not accelerate; Kellerman did not move into the back seat; and only one agent [Hill] attempted to reach the President before the fatal shot. Why was lethargy so pervasive?"

Palamara about Greer..v4n1 chapter 08..link below..

*****************************

Was Emory Roberts Involved ?

Marcel Dehaeseleer

http://www.copweb.be/Emory%20Roberts.htm

*************************

From Vince Palamara:

Emory P. Roberts merits the same scrutiny, if not more so; a look

at his role is now in order.

Jumping ahead to Dallas on November 22, 1963, (after friendly,

enthusiastic, and uneventful motorcades in San Antonio, Houston,

and Fort Worth on November 21-22,1963), Agent Roberts assigned

the other seven agents on his particular shift to the follow-up

car: Sam Kinney, Clint Hill, Paul Landis, William"Tim" McIntyre,

Glen Bennett, George Hickey, and John Ready13 -- four of whom had

only hours before participated in the in famous drinking incident

in Fort Worth. Mr. Roberts' shift was the worst offender of the

three shifts!14 What makes this tragic is that Roberts had the

most important shift of all: the 8:00a.m. to 4:00 p.m. shift--

the Fort Worth/Dallas part of the Texas trip (the other two

shifts, Agent Stout's 4:00 p.m. to midnight detail and Agent

Godfrey's midnight to 8:00 a.m. shift were not actively

protecting JFK during the Dallas motorcade. They were all waiting

for JFK to complete the motorcade--Stout's detail at the Trade

Mart, Godfrey's detail in Austin with Bob Burk and Bill Payne at

both the Commodore-Perry Hotel and the LBJ Ranch).

Cover-up number one: Agent Roberts would later write (April 28,

1964) that "there was no question in my mind as to (the agents')

physical and mental capacity to function effectively in their

assigned duties."15 Like Chief Rowley and Inspector Kelley

before both the WC and the HSCA, Agent Roberts covered up the

drinking incident, despite Secret Service regulations which

stated that this was grounds for removal from the agency.16 Sleep

deprivation and alcohol consumption wreak havoc on even the best

trained reflexes. While leaving Love Field on the way to the

heart of Dallas, destiny, and murder, Agent Roberts rose from his

seat and, using his voice and several hand gestures, forced agent

Henry J. Rybka fall back from the rear area of JFK's limousine,

causing a perplexed Rybka to stop and raise his arms several

times in disgust (Rybka would then remain at the airport during

the murder, having been effectively neutralized) --although Paul

Landis made room for him on the right running board of the

follow-up car, Agent Rybka did not budge.17 Although Rybka worked

the follow-up in Houston the day before18 and was a gun-carrying

protective agent, he was not allowed to do his job on November

22,1963 (Rybka has since died...).

Cover-up number two: Both Emory Roberts and Winston Lawson placed

Agent Rybka in the follow-up car in their initial reports, only

to "correct" the record later, after November 22, although Rybka

was not even mentioned anywhere in Agent Lawson's Preliminary

Survey Report--making it seem obvious that he was covering Emory

Roberts' behind.19 As the cars approached the Main and Houston

Street intersection, Clint Hill fell back to the follow-up car.

Agent Hill was the only agent to ride on the rear of the

limousine in Dallas and he was not even assigned to JFK (as a

last-minute addition to the trip, Agent Hill was, like Paul

Landis, part of Jackie's detail, and came at the First Lady's

personal request). John Ready, a relatively new agent, never

approached JFK's side of the limousine. Why not? Emory Roberts

explained: "SA Ready would have done the same thing (as Agent

Hill did) if motorcycle was not a President's corner of car"(!)20

Strange, but this posed no problem at all for Agent Don Lawton on

November 18, 1963, in Tampa21 (but unfortunately, like Rybka,

Lawton was left at Love Field and was not in the motorcade

detail).22 In any event, there was always cooperation between the

motorcycles and the agents; they maneuvered around each other

countless times, including in Dallas on November 22.

Cover-up number three: The April 22, 1964 reports from Agents

Behn, Boring, Ready, Hill, and Emory Roberts, alleging,

after-the-fact, that President Kennedy had ordered agents off the

rear of the limousine on November 18, 1963 in Tampa, and in other

cities.23 It has to be stated again, and with some new

corroboration to boot: JFK never ordered the agents to do

anything, let alone telling the men to get off the rear of the

limousine (or to take off the bubbletop, reduce the number of

motorcycles, etc.). Agents Behn and Boring totally refuted their

own (alleged) reports in conversations with me, while agents

Kinney, Youngblood, Bouck, Noris, Bolden, Lilly, Martineau, plus

two recently-interviewed agents, Don Lawton and Art Godfrey,

confirmed the fact that JFK never ordered the agents to do

anything. He was "very cooperative," they told me. Kenny

O'Donnell did not "relay" any orders either, and in addition,

Dave Powers, Marty Underwood, and a new contact, White House

photographer Cecil Stoughton, confirmed to me what all the agents

have told me to date!24

If you concentrate on the critical time frame in which these

"presidential orders" allegedly occurred, November 18-21, 1963,

you can see what peril they caused in Dallas: no protection--as

"requested"--on JFK's side of the car (including no bubbletop,

partial or full, nor the usual number of motorcycles riding next

to JFK, something that occurred everywhere except Dallas.25 When

I mentioned this to Agent Chuck Zboril (who was in Tampa with

Agent Lawton on 11/18/63), he nervously said: "Where did you read

that [JFK's alleged orders]? Do you want me commenting

officially? I'm...speaking to someone I don't even know...you

see...someone else testified about what happened in Tampa [Clint

Hill]...(pause)... can you....send me what you have on this

matter? After sending Mr. Zboril a video and a contents sheet, he

declined to respond as promised.26 I have since learned that many

former agents now have "caller I.D." on their phones, and were

warned not to speak to me (on 6/7/96, I called the home of

Winston Lawson. After asking for him, his wife called him by name

and he then got on the phone and told me I had the wrong number!

It gets worse... Although Agent Roberts admitted recognizing

"Oswald's" first shot as a rifle blast,27 as the Altgens photo

confirms, he made a mysterious transmission via radio microphone

that is not accounted for in his reports or in the official

record.28 Instead of offering a shout of alarm, alert, or orders

to his agents to do something that their own initiative lacked

for some reason, ie., protective action, he did nothing to help

the wounded President. Roberts' recall of Agent Ready is well

documented,29 although we have...

Cover-up number four: The alleged speed of the limousine and the

alleged distance between the two cars (9-11 mph and five feet in

reality, not the 20-25 mph and 20-25 feet stated in both SAs

Roberts and Agent Ready's reports) was used as the pretext for

the recall of Ready.30 Taking everything cited to the point into

account, there is still another factor that has escaped virtually

everyone, and this "factor" came about quite accidentally. In

Groden and Livingstone's High Treason, (pages 16 and 487 of the

Berkley edition, respectively), it was noted that "Emory Roberts

ordered the agents not to move", which I took to be an unintended

overstatement at the time. So, I decided to read the passage to

Sam Kinney who told me, "Exactly right, and I'm involved in that,

too!" Besides the Love Field recall of Agent Rybka and Dealey

Plaza recall of Ready, Roberts also immobilized the other agents

at a critical juncture in the shooting, causing a non- JFK agent

(Clint Hill) to react too late to do anything but cover the

corpse of the President.31 I believe aides Ken O'Donnell and Dave

Powers best summed up the situation when they wrote: "Roberts,

one of President Kennedy's agents...had decided to switch to

Johnson as soon as Kennedy was shot" (emphasis added).32 In

addition, four other authors have noted Agent Roberts' "switch of

allegiance," including Chief Curry!33

Once at Parkland Hospital, SA Roberts totally usurped his

superior, number three man Roy Kellerman (on his first trip on

his own for the first-time vacationing Gerry Behn, leaving Floyd

Boring in charge of the Texas trip back in Washington, DC)34;

Emory ordered Kellerman's agents around and confided in Rufus

Youngblood, the soon-to-be SAIC, replacing the absent Behn (just

as ASAIC Youngblood replaced SAIC Stu Knight in Dallas, and Henry

Fowler re-placed the absent Treasury Secretary C. Douglas

Dillon. For his part, Youngblood was to become the SAIC of the

Vice-Presidential Detail on November 25,1963, a move planned

before Dallas, but he rose much higher after Dallas). What

William Manchester reports as having occurred at Parkland on page

170 of his book makes one both sick and repulsed: "Powers and

O'Donnell bounded toward the Lincoln. Powers heard Emory Roberts

shouting at him to stop but disregarded him; a second might save

Kennedy's life [Dave, too bad you weren't on the running board of

the follow-up car...!]...Emory Roberts brushed past O'Donnell,

determined to make sure that Kennedy was dead. 'Get up,' he said

to Jacqueline Kennedy. there was no reply. She was crooning

faintly. From his side Roberts could see the President's face, so

he lifted her elbow for a close look. He dropped it. To

Kellerman, his superior, he said tersely, 'You stay with Kennedy.

I'm going to Johnson.'"(Emphasis added)35

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-rober.htm

***************************

FROM : ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts, The White House Detail.

U. S. Secret Service

November 29, 1963.

12:30 p.m. First of three shots fired, at which time I saw the

President lean toward Mrs. Kennedy. I do not know if it was the

next shot or third shot that hit the President in the head, but I

saw what appeared to be a small explosion on the right_ side of

the President's head, saw blood, at which time the President fell

further to his left. Mrs. Kennedy was leaning toward the

President, however, she immediately raised up in the seat and

appeared to be getting up on back of same. About this time I saw

SA Clinton Hill trying to get on left rear step of the

President's car. He got aboard and climbed up over the back of

the car and placed himself over the President and Mrs. Kennedy.

After SA Hill got on rear step of the President's car it appeared

that SA John Ready was about to follow and go for the right rear

step, however, I told him not to jump, as we had picked up speed,

and I was afraid he could not make it.

It is estimated that we were traveling approximately 15-20 miles

per hour at the time of the shooting and it is believed that the

follow-up car was approximately 20 25 feet behind the President's

car.

The crowd was very sparse, in fact only a few people were along

the motorcade route at the time of the shooting.

Just after the third shot was fired, I picked up the car radio

and said "Halfback (code name for SS. Follow-up car) to Lawson,

the President has been hit, escort us to the nearest hospital,

fast but at a safe speed." I repeated the message, requesting to

be cautious, meaning the speed. I had in mind Vice President

Johnson's safety, as well as the President's, if he was not

already dead.

The Vice President's car was approximately one-half block behind

the Secret Service car, at the time of the shooting, and some of

us waved for it to close in closer to the Secret Service car. The

Vice President's car quickly closed the gap.

When I turned around to wave the Vice President's car to come

closer, at same time, trying to determine where shots had come

from, I said, pointing to SA McIntyre, ''They got him, they got

him," continuing I said "You (meaning McIntyre) and Bennett take

over Johnson as soon as we stop." (meaning the hospital).

I turned around a couple times, just after the shooting and saw

that some of the Special Agents had their guns drawn, I know I

drew mine, and saw SA Hickey in rear seat with the AR-15, and

asked him to be careful with it.

12:34 p.m. Presidential motorcade arrived at Parkland Hospital.

(I did not look at my watch, however, I overheard someone at the

hospital say that it took four minutes to get there.)

Upon arrival at Parkland Hospital, I immediately ran to President

Kennedy. Mrs. Kennedy was lieing over him. I said to Mrs. Kennedy

to let us get the President. She said in effect that she was not

going to move. I got one look at the President's head and

remarked to ASAIC Kellerman, "You stay with the President, I'm

taking some of my men for Johnson." SA's McIntyre and Bennett

were already with Vice President Johnson, having joined SAIC

Rufus Youngblood and other Special Agents assigned to the Vice

President, as the Vice President arrived at the hospital.

The first thing we did, was request a room for the Vice

President. After getting the Vice President and Mrs. Johnson in a

room, at the hospital, I said in effect to the Vice President, in

the presence of Mrs. Johnson, Mr. Cliff Carter, Executive

Assistant to the Vice President and SAIC Youngblood, as well as

others, that I did not think the President could make it and

suggested that we get out of Dallas as soon as possibl

"http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-rober.htm" target="_blank">http:

//jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-rober.htm</a>

He Roberts states in his above statement......

""Note: On shift report for Nov. 22, 1963, I listed SA Rybka as

riding in center of rear seat, which was in error, as he was not

in car. As mentioned above, he remained at Love Field.""

If this was in error, why did he report this on Nov. 22/63..in

the shift report?

***************************

Vince Palamara had indicated he would include "never-before-seen

films and photos from the author's massive private collection,"

and in this, the audience was not disappointed. "This is

different angles of [the Kennedy motorcade] leaving Love Field,"

Palamara said, as the video rolled. Using a red "laser light"

pointer, he identified various agents, and supplied narration:

"This is John Ready ... Paul Landis ... here they are, leaving

Love Field ... Henry Rybka --- thinking that he's going to be

doing what he just did the last few stops --- this is when Emory

Roberts rises in his seat in the followup car ... and we see some

hand gestures ... basically tells [Rybka] to cease and desist

from his actions. Paul Landis is even making room for him on the

followup car! And this is when you'll see Henry Rybka ... I think

a picture says a thousand words, well this is about as close as

you can get here ---" And as the next image flickered on the

screen in slow motion, the Lancer audience rumbled in

astonishment --- the words "Wow!" and "Jesus!" leap out from my

tape recorder. For as Henry Rybka is seen being summoned from his

usual position back to the followup car, he issues a confused

palms-up gesture that seems to say, "What gives?"

Rybka was left behind at Love Field. "And the most amazing thing

of all," Palamara continued, "is the fact that there is not one

report, not two reports, but three reports after the fact,

placing Rybka in the followup car! But he wasn't there! Again ---

either they assumed he did hop into the car, or there was a

coverup. Take your pick..."

The clip of Rybka's confusion rolled again; I think everyone

needed to see it at least twice. "When you see this clip

normally, it's normally real time, it goes by real quick..."

More clips were shown, and there was more analysis of the Dallas

motorcade and the role of the Secret Service. "The situation

now," Palamara said as he began to wrap things up, "we've been

looking at our suspects, and I think there's a lot to be said for

the work of other authors and researchers ... in my interviews,

I've totally debunked any notion of President Kennedy had

anything to do with the security insufficiencies, and it boils

down to the Secret Service being responsible for them...

"Anonymous no longer, the Secret Service will never again be

taken for granted in any view of what happened on November 22,

1963..."

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/0052-VP.TXT

******************

The Policy of “No Agents” on the President’s Limousine

Information from Vince Palamara’s “Survivor’s Guilt” 2005

The Evolution of the Myth.

The Warren Commission was curious apparently, along with members

of the media and the public, why there were no agents protecting

the President Kennedy during the Dallas motorcade on 11/22/63. by

being posted on the back of the Limo on either side. Or why no

agents were not walking or running along side of the car.?(1).

Agents had performed these duties since the days of FDR. In

response, and only because they demanded an answer, Secret

Service Chief James J.Rowley had agents , Jerry Behn, Floyd

Boring, Emory Roberts, John Ready, and Clint Hill write their

reports in relation to their experiences with JFK on the matter

of security,(why Roy Kellerman, the agent in charge of the Dallas

trip , and the other Texas agents weren’t asked, is not known.)

Most interesting is that nothing is mentioned specifically by the

WC about 11/22/63..as requested by them. On first glance all five

reports support the notion that the President did not want agents

on or near the rear of the limo. However that is at first glance.

Special Agent In Charge (SAIC) of White House detail (WHD)

Gerald. A “Jerry” Behn, not on the Texas trip, stated

unequivocally in his report 4/16/64 that JFK “told me that he did

not want agents riding on the back of his car.” This came from

the man who was the leader of the WH detail, “the man who was the

direct pipeline to the President, this alleged presidential edit

seems to be an authoritative and conclusive fact.

However, during the course of three separate interviews with

Vince Palamara, Mr.Behn let out a most unexpected bombshell: “I

don’t remember Kennedy ever saying that he didn’t want anybody on

the back of his car”. He went on to further add” that newsreel

footage from that period will bear him out on this point.” One of

many examples being the June 63 trip to Berlin (and many others

from 61 to 63). “I think if you watch the newsreel pictures

you’ll find agents on there from time to time.” Behn said.

Brehn’s reputation was and is impeccable. Agent Maurice

G.Martineau told Palamara on 9/21/93.. “No one that I can think

of would have been better positioned to give you the information

than Jerry Behn…( he was ) as well informed as anyone I can think

of that you could contact”. Behn garnered the utmost respect from

his colleagues that the author spoke with”.

Mr.Behn however ended his report by stating..” As late as Nov.

18(63)… he (JFK) told ASAIC Boring the same thing (or so Boring

claimed). Assistant Special Agent Boring was also not on the

Dallas trip, he had dealt primarily with the 11/18/63 Tampa,

Florida trip in his report ( dated 4/8/64) while also he

mentioned the 7/2/63 Italy trip, alleging that President Kennedy

made this request for both stops. Boring made the Florida trip in

place of Mr.Behn.

That said, in yet another contradiction that caught the author

off guard Boring exclaimed: “No, no that’s not true..(JFK) was a

very easy going guy…he didn’t interfere with our actions at all”,

thus also contradicting his report.

Assistant To the Special Agent in Charge (ATSAIC) Emory P.Roberts

(on the Florida and Texas trips) the commander of the SS follow

up car …the late Mr. Roberts (he died in the 60’s) deals

exclusively with the 11/18/63 Tampa, Florida trip in his report (

dated 4/10/64): Boring was Roberts sole source, via radio

transmission from the limousine ahead of his follow-up vehicle,

for JFK’s alleged request.

Special Agent (SA) John David “Jack” Ready (on the Texas trip)

..Ready’s very brief report (dated 4/11/64) dealt exclusively

with the 11/18/63 Tampa, Florida trip. However, Ready was not on

that specific Florida trip. Boring was, once again, his source

for JFK’s alleged request .Ready would not respond to written

inquiries from the author. The author phoned Mr. Ready on 6/13/05

and asked him if it was true that Boring said this, based on

JFK’s request. After confirming he wasn’t on the Tampa trip,

Ready stated : “Not on the phone (will I answer you ).I don’t

know you from Adam. Can you see my point ?”.

SA Clinton J,”Clint” Hill (on the Texas trip) …Hill also deals

with the 11/18/63 Tampa, Florida trip and Borings second-hand in

his (strangely undated) report: Mr. Hill was not on the Florida

trip either. Mr. Hill’s brother is former agent David B. Grant, a

former advance agent who worked on the planning of the Florida

and Texas trips with none other than Mr.Boring.

So of the five SS reports, four have as their primary source for

JFK’s alleged request Agent Floyd Boring, including one by Boring

himself, while the remaining report, written by Mr.Behn, mentions

the same 11/18/63 trip with Mr. Boring as the others do.Both Behn

and Boring totally contradicted the contents of their reports at

different times, independent of each other, to the author. In

addition, agents DID ride on the rear of the limousine on 7/2/63

and 11/18/63 anyway, despite these alleged Presidential requests,

as the film and photo record proves.(2).Needless to say, with

Boring joining Behn in refuting the substance of their reports ,

the official SS ‘ explanation’ falls like a house of cards.

Brehn’s, Boring’s, and Hill’s reports are not even on any SS or

Treasury Dept. stationary, just blank sheets of paper. Also

Hill’s report is undated, an unusual error to make in any

official government that has been requested by the head of the

Secret Service.

Yet, all are supposed to be evidence of JFK expressing his desire

to keep Secret Service agents off the limousine, particularly in

Tampa, Florida..? Importantly ,no mention is made of any alleged

orders via President’s Staff. And, again, there is nothing about

what JFK said or “requested” on Nov.22/63.The critical day in

question.

Above from page 4-5.

Notes: p.210

(1) Vol.18 WC: p.803-809 “From now on , this designation, the

standard one used in the literature, will be adopted as follows:

However, the hydraulic side steps which swung out were rarely

used because of their narrowness and their potential lethal

capability to unknowing spectators on a motorcade route : “The

Death of a President,” p.36 ( All references to Manchester’s book

are from the 1988 Perennial Library edition) “Presidential

Limousines” video by Rick Boudreau .1996. When Kennedy’s

specially-designed Lincoln Continental limousine was delivered to

the White House in June 61, detachable rear grab handles were

included ( Press statement ,Ford Motor Co. June 61).In early 62

,grab handles were permanently added to the rear of the car. It

should also be noted that President Eisenhower’s limousine (and

even one of the two 56 Cadillac convertible follow up cars) was

also, out of necessity, used from time to time. (2) Regarding

Italy: See also “Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye” by O’Donnell, Kenneth

P., David F .Powers, and Joseph McCarthy, (Boston: Little Brown &

Co. 1972) page 433 (Note: All references to this book are from

the Pocket Book paperback edition published in 73).

The Myth…

Floyd Boring and quite a few of his SS colleagues denied to Vince

Palamara what William Manchester reports in the best seller “The

Death of a President”: “Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards

roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa

Nov.18/63 just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent

Floyd Boring to ‘keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of

the car’ Boring wasn’t offended .There had been no animosity in

the remark”.(3)

But incredibly Boring told Palamara that “I never told him that”.

As for the merit of the quote itself, Boring said “No, no—that’s

not true”. Thus contradicting his own report in the process.

Incredibly, Boring was not even interviewed for Manchester’s

book! We may never know the source for this information as

Manchester told the author on 8/23/93 that “ all the material is

under seal and won’t be released in my lifetime”, and denied the

author access to his notes. Manchester has since passed away. (4)

Interestingly Manchester did interview the late Emory Roberts,

his probable but also very questionable source.(5) As a result

Manchester left his mark on the issue.(6) In Jim Bishop’s “The

Day Kennedy Was Shot”, he simply repeats the written record of

the WC and the previously mentioned five reports all taken at

face value. Mr. Boring was not interviewed for the book. Mr.

Bishop,also now dead, his information rests with him. But he did

sum up the situation the best. “ No one wanted to weigh the

possibilities that, if a Secret Service man had been on the left

rear bumper going down Elm Street, it would have been difficult

to hit President Kennedy” he also noted “The Secret Service men

were not pleased because they were in a “ hot” city and would

have preferred to have two men ride the bumper of the President’s

car with two motorcycle policemen between him ( JFK) and the

crowds on the sidewalks”. Thanks to the SS reports above ( and,

in large part to Agent Boring himself ) three massive best

sellers still in print ..The Warren Report…Manchester’s “The

Death of a President”….and Bishop’s “The Day Kennedy Was

Shot”…have created the myth that JFK was difficult to protect and

had ordered the agents off his car..and like a ,dangerous myth

that endures to this day in classrooms and in the media , thus

doing great damage to the true historical record. The Secret

Service Myth..Blames the Victim.

Clint Hill: “I never personally was requested by President John

F. Kennedy not to ride on the rear of the Presidential

automobile. I did receive information passed verbally from the

administrative offices of the White House Detail of the Secret

Service to Agents assigned to that Detail that President Kennedy

had made such requests.”

“This would have been between Nov. 19/63 and Nov 21/63 “.He could

not recall at the time what specific agent had given him JFK’s

alleged desires….note the dates.

But during his WC testimony, he revealed it on 3/9/64 under oath

to the future Senator Arlen Specter, then a lawyer for the WC.

Specter: “Now had there been any instruction or comment about

your performance of that type of duty (moving to the rear part of

the limo) With respect to anything President Kennedy himself had

said in the period immediately preceding the trip to Texas ?”

Hill” “Yes Sir, there was. The preceding Monday, the President

was on a trip to Tampa. Florida and he requested that agents not

ride on either of those two steps”.

Specter: “ And to whom did the President make that request?”

Hill: “Assistant Special Agent in Charge Boring”.

Boring was also in charge of planning the Texas trip for the

Secret Service..

From p: 6, 7, 8. ***********************************************

Notes p.210

(3) Manchester p.37-38 .He also wrote “It was a good idea, for

example, to have agents perched on the broad trunk of the

Presidential Lincoln when crowds threatened to grow disorderly.

The trouble was they were always there.” (4)Author Walt Brown

mentions Palamara’s controversial contact with Manchester in his

book “Treachery In Dallas”. 95. P.338. (5) Manchester p.667 Of

the 21 agents /officials interviewed by Manchester, only Roberts,

Greer, Kinney and Blaine were on the Florida trip. Blaine was the

advance agent for Tampa,( riding in the lead car), Greer drove

JFK’s car, Kinney drove the follow-up car, and Roberts was the

commander of the follow-up car. Roberts is Palamara’s main

suspect of the four being Manchester’s dubious source for this

quote.: he was asked to write a report about JFK’s so-called

desires, citing Boring as the source for the order via radio

transmission. The others Greer, Kinney and Blaine ..were not

asked to write a similar report. In addition, Manchester had

access to this report while writing his book. Also unlike the

others, Roberts was interviewed twice and while Greer never went

on record with his feelings about the matter ,one way or the

other, Kinney denied the veracity of Manchester’s information ,

while Blaine denied the substance of the information, although

he DID mention the ‘Ivy League charlatan’ remark coming from a

second source .Finally, of the 21 agents interviewed by

Manchester .Blaine is the only agent ---save two headquarters

Inspectors ( see next note)---whose interview comments are not to

be found in the text or index. In addition two other agents

Lawton & Newman mention the remark as hearsay, it is likely that

Manchester seized upon the remark and greatly exaggerated its

significance ..AND attributed it to Boring, while his actual

source was probably Roberts (and or Blaine). Again since Boring

was not interviewed the comment had to come second hand from some

other agent, who in turn received the remark second hand from

Boring. In the end the question is: Did Boring really give out

these orders on instructions from JFK.? (6) Interestingly

Manchester having interviewed 21 different agents/ officials for

his book (p.600-669), chose to include interviews with SS

Inspectors Burrill Peterson and Jack Warner...What’s the problem?

These men who were not even associated with the Texas trip in any

way, were interviewed more than any other agents, 4 times each

(Peterson 10/9/64..11/7/64..11/18/64..2/5/65. Warner

6/2/64..11/18/64..2/5/65..5/12/65. Only Emory Roberts, Clint

Hill, Roy Kellerman, and Forrest Sorrels had two each. While all

other agents/officials had one. More importantly, unlike all

other 19 agents, save one Gerald Blaine (a Texas trip WHD agent).

These two Inspectors are not even mentioned in the actual text or

index? Their comments are invisible to the reader. It appears

that Manchester’s book was an officially sanitized book more so

than we thought (as most everyone knows the book was written with

Jackie Kennedy’s approval, it was her idea. Manchester had early

access to the WC itself. Warren appointed him an ex-officio

member of the Commission. He approved an office for him in

Washington’s VFW building. Where the commission met, and where

copies of reports and depositions were made available to him.(p:

XIX) Inspector Peterson was prominent in the post-assassination

press dealings. Sorrels testified “I don’t think at any time you

will see that there is any statement made by the newspapers or

television that we said anything because Mr.Kelley ,the Inspector

,told me “Any information that is given out will have to come

from Inspector Peterson in Washington”.(7H359). Burrill Peterson

became an Assistant Director for Investigations in 1968.(20 Years

in the Secret Service “ by Rufus Youngblood. 1973 p: 220. Jack

Warner went on to become Director of Public Affairs till in the

90s Acting as a buffer to critical press questions during

assassination attempts on President Ford and other related

matters.(The Secret Service :The Hidden History of an Enigmatic

Agency 2003:Phillip Melanson and Peter Stevens: p

101,201,224,237. Jack Warner would also later become a consultant

to the 1993 Clint Eastwood movie “In The Line of Fire” .Which

dramatized the life of Clint Hill.

Hills testimony:

Clinton J.Hill WC Testimony

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm

His original report.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/sa-hill.htm

************************

Agent Emory P. Roberts (ATSAIC, Commander of the Secret Service

follow-up car)

A native of Cockeysville, Maryland, Roberts had

previously served with the Maryland State Police, the Baltimore

County Police, and as an investigator for the Office of Price

Administration. Secret Service agent Emory P. Roberts was also

a high school colleague of author Howard Donahue of “Mortal

Error” fame.[ii] Roberts was appointed to the Secret Service in

January 1944, in Baltimore, and also served in the Washington

field office before joining the White House Detail during the

Truman era.[iii] Roberts was awarded the Exceptional Civilian

Service Award for outstanding service while protecting Richard M.

Nixon, then President Eisenhower’s Vice President, in June, 1958,

in Caracas, Venezuela.[iv]

Former agent Darwin Horn, who served with Roberts on the White

House Detail during the Eisenhower years, wrote: “Emory Roberts

was a very fine accomplished agent. He was the No.3 man on Bill

Shields shift behind Pat Boggs. He was a very congenial

well-liked agent who was always available to assist younger

agents. I do not know from what office he had come from when he

rejoined the WHD in about 1955.”[v] Former WHD agent Charles J.

Marass wrote: “Regarding Emory Roberts, he was a very competent,

conscientious, dedicated, honorable person and agent. He was the

Shift Leader that I was assigned to during my duty at the White

House Detail. Emory was so concerned about those on his shift we

affectionately referred to him as our “Mother Hen.” Emory

performed his duties in a most professional manner.”[vi]

Roberts had been on President Kennedy's trip to Florida on

November 18, 1963. As he was later to do on the fateful Texas

trip, Mr. Roberts served as the commander of the agents in the

follow-up car, one of two well-used 1956 Cadillac convertibles

that sometimes served as the presidential limousine (an example

is provided in JFK's summer, 1963, Ireland trip[vii]). On both

trips, Sam Kinney served as the driver of this car.[viii] As one

of three Shift Leaders of the White House Detail (the other two

were Stewart G. Stout, Jr. and Arthur L. Godfrey, both also on

the Texas trip with Roberts[ix]), Emory was a stern and forceful

agent who took and gave out orders in a serious manner while

working on President Kennedy's trips. It was during the Florida

trip that some interesting things involving Agent Roberts

occurred which would have a direct bearing on November 22, 1963.

The President visited Palm Beach, Cape Canaveral, Miami, and

Tampa on November 18, 1963. As agent’s Chuck Zboril and Don

Lawton were riding on the rear of the limousine in Tampa, someone

from the crowd threw a red "Powerhouse" candy bar at the

motorcade, and the confection landed with a "thud" on the hood of

the Secret Service follow-up car. Thinking it to be a lethal

stick of dynamite, Agent Roberts pushed the object forcefully off

the hood. Realizing what the object really was, Roberts and the

other agents shared a laugh about it.[x] But they had had good

reason to be jumpy: the atmosphere in Tampa (and Miami) was one

that gave the agents cause for concern--hostility from the

anti-Castro Cuban community, the Joseph Milteer threat, and an

organized crime related-scare.[xi] As he had done countless times

before, Mr. Roberts had the two agents that were riding on the

rear of the presidential limousine "fall back" from time to time

(sometimes based on Special Agent in Charge Jerry Behn's

suggestion; in this case it was the number two agent, Assistant

Special Agent in Charge Floyd Boring). This was quite often a

spur-of-the-moment decision based on the speed of the cars, the

size and proximity of the crowd, and the potential for threat(s)

at the moment (often, the two agents on the rear of JFK's

limousine took their own initiative in going between the two

cars, as agent Clint Hill did several times in Dallas[xii]). This

will become important later.

Jumping ahead to Dallas on November 22, 1963, (after friendly,

enthusiastic, and uneventful motorcades in San Antonio,

Houston, and Fort Worth on November 21-22, 1963), Agent Roberts

assigned the other seven agents on his particular shift to the

follow-up car: Sam Kinney, Clint Hill, Paul Landis, William"Tim"

McIntyre, Glen Bennett, George Hickey, and John Ready[xiii] -

four of whom had only hours before participated in the infamous

drinking incident in Fort Worth. Mr. Roberts' shift was the worst

offender of the three shifts![xiv] What makes this even more

tragic is that Roberts had the most important shift of all: the

8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. shift-- the Fort Worth/Dallas part of the

Texas trip (the other two shifts, Agent Stout's 4:00 p.m. to

midnight detail and Agent Godfrey's midnight to 8:00 a.m. shift

were not actively protecting JFK during the Dallas motorcade.

They were all waiting for JFK to complete the motorcade--Stout's

detail at the Trade Mart, Godfrey's detail in Austin with Bob

Burke and Bill Payne at both the Commodore-Perry Hotel and the

LBJ Ranch).

Cover-up number one: Agent Roberts would later write (April 28,

1964): "there was no question in my mind as to [the agents]

physical and mental capacity to function effectively in their

assigned duties."[xv] Like Chief Rowley and Inspector Kelley

before both the Warren Commission and the HSCA, Agent Roberts

covered up the drinking incident, despite Secret Service

regulations that clearly stated that these were grounds for

removal from the agency.[xvi] Sleep deprivation and alcohol

consumption wreak havoc on even the best-trained reflexes. While

leaving Love Field on the way to the heart of Dallas, destiny,

and murder, Agent Roberts rose from his seat and, using his voice

and several hand gestures, forced agent Henry J. Rybka to fall

back from the rear area of JFK's limousine, causing a perplexed

Rybka to stop and raise his arms several times in disgust (Rybka

would then remain at the airport during the murder, having been

effectively neutralized)---although Paul Landis made room for him

on the right running board of the follow-up car, Agent Rybka did

not budge.[xvii] Despite the fact that Rybka had worked the

follow-up in Houston the day before[xviii] and was an

experienced[xix] protective agent[xx], he was not allowed to do

his job on November 22,1963 (Rybka has since died). Agent Rybka,

fresh from Secret Service School and the Florida trip, both in

November, 1963[xxi], knew what the standard procedure was, both

through training and seeing with his own two eyes: to have agents

on or near the rear of the presidential limousine.

Cover-up number two: Both Emory Roberts and Winston Lawson placed

Agent Rybka in the follow-up car in their (initial) reports, only

to "correct" the record later, after November 22, although Rybka

was not even mentioned anywhere in Agent Lawson's Preliminary

Survey Report to begin with---making it seem obvious that Lawson

was covering for Emory Roberts.[xxii] Incredibly, Emory Roberts

made the same "mistake" twice: In the shift report of 11/22/63

(separate from the one depicted in the Commission’s

volumes[xxiii]), Roberts placed Rybka in the "center rear seat"

between Hickey and Bennett![xxiv] Oddly, this was not the first

time Rybka was "mistakenly" replaced in the follow-up car during

November 1963. The shift report of 11/9/63, written by agent

David Grant, stated that Rybka drove the follow-up car in New

York.[xxv] The problem lies in the fact that Rybka was actually

left behind in Washington, D.C. at the time, as the November 8

and 9 shift reports make abundantly clear[xxvi]--- bizarre

indeed.

As the cars approached the Main and Houston Street intersection,

Clint Hill fell back to the follow-up car. Agent Hill was the

only agent to ride on the rear of the limousine in Dallas and he

was not even assigned to JFK (as a last-minute addition to the

trip, Agent Hill was, like Paul Landis, part of Jackie's detail,

and came at the First Lady's personal request). John Ready, the

agent assigned to President Kennedy’s side of the limousine and

riding on the right front running board of the follow-up car,

never approached JFK's side of the limousine. Why not? Emory

Roberts lamely explained: "SA Ready would have done the same

thing (as Agent Hill did) if motorcycle was not a President's

corner of car"(!)[xxvii] Strange, but this posed no problem at

all for Agent Don Lawton on November 18, 1963, in Tampa[xxviii]

(but unfortunately, like Rybka, Lawton was left at Love Field and

was not in the motorcade detail[xxix]). In any event, there was

always cooperation between the motorcycles and the agents; they

maneuvered around each other countless times, including in Dallas

on November 22.

Cover-up number three: The infamous April 22, 1964 reports from

Agents Behn, Boring, Ready, Hill, and Emory Roberts, alleging,

after-the-fact, that President Kennedy had ordered agents off the

rear of the limousine on November 18, 1963 in Tampa, and in other

cities.[xxx] As previously discussed in detail, the Secret

Service blamed JFK for the removal of the agents on or near the

rear of his limousine and this is simply untrue. Although Agent

Roberts admitted recognizing "Oswald's" first shot as a rifle

blast[xxxi], as the Altgens photo confirms, he made a mysterious

transmission via radio microphone that is not accounted for in

his reports or in the official record.[xxxii] Instead of offering

a shout of alarm, alert, or orders to his agents to do something

that their own initiative lacked for some reason, i.e.,

protective action, he did nothing to help the wounded President.

Allen Dulles of the Warren Commission asked: “Who would cover

straight ahead?” Chief Rowley responded: “The man in the front

seat [unnamed: Roberts] has that responsibility.”[xxxiii] None of

the follow-up car agents, via their individual scanning duties,

which had them actually looking AWAY from JFK and at different

points of the crowd, had the responsibility of watching ONLY the

presidential vehicle. That job belonged to Roberts alone, and it

appears obvious that the other agents of the follow-up car relied

heavily on Roberts to sound some sort of alarm in the event of

trouble in JFK’s car. Roberts' recall of Agent Ready is well

documented[xxxiv], although we still have:

Cover-up number four: The alleged speed of the limousine and the

alleged distance between the two cars (9-11 mph and five feet in

reality, not the 20-25 mph and 20-25 feet stated in both Roberts

and Agent Ready's reports) was used as the pretext for the recall

of Ready.[xxxv] Taking everything cited to this point into

account, there is still another factor that has escaped virtually

everyone, and this "factor" came about quite accidentally. In

Groden and Livingstone's High Treason[xxxvi], it was noted:

"Emory Roberts ordered the agents not to move," which this author

took to be an unintended overstatement at the time. So, the

author decided to read the passage to Sam Kinney for commentary.

Surprisingly, Sam told the author, "Exactly right, and I'm

involved in that, too!" Before the author could digest this

troubling information, Sam attempted to defend Roberts’ actions

by stating that the angle of the follow-up car he was driving

wasn’t conducive to any of the other agents taking action (as

Hill did), an excuse the author does not find valid. Kinney told

a similar story to the HSCA on 2/26/78: “Mr. Kinney’s analysis of

Roberts’ order was that if Roberts had permitted Ready to go, and

“if ready had done what Hill did, I’ve got one of them,” i.e.

because of the impossibility of swerving away at an angle wide

enough to avoid both of them.” However, the Nix film (as well as

the Zapruder film) demonstrates that, during the shooting, the

follow-up car had slowed down, lagging somewhat behind the

presidential limousine. Therefore, Kinney’s car---and JFK’s car,

for that matter---wasn’t quite close enough or moving fast enough

to create the hazard Kinney eludes to. Ironically, if the

required five-foot distance between the vehicles had been

maintained (as it had been up to right before the shooting), not

to mention a faster rate of speed, Kinney would be on firmer

ground. In addition, Agent Tim McIntyre told the HSCA on 1/31/78

that the follow-up car was “slightly to the left rear of the

limousine,” so, if anything, Hill was in more danger than Ready

when he took off to protect Mrs. Kennedy. So, besides the Love

Field recall of Agent Rybka and Dealey Plaza recall of Ready,

Roberts also immobilized the other agents at a critical juncture

in the shooting, causing a non- JFK agent (Clint Hill) to react

too late to do anything but cover the corpse of the

President.[xxxvii] HSCA attorney Belford Lawson also was troubled

by Roberts’ conduct---he wrote in a once-secret memorandum: “Why

[wasn’t] Emory Roberts…called to testify?”[xxxviii]

Presidential aides Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers best summed up

the situation when they wrote: "Roberts, one of President

Kennedy's agents...had decided to switch to Johnson as soon as

Kennedy was shot.”[xxxix] In addition, four other authors have

noted Agent Roberts' "switch of allegiance," including Chief

Curry.[xl] Once at Parkland Hospital, SA Roberts totally usurped

his superior, number-three agent Roy Kellerman. Emory ordered

Kellerman's agents around and confided in Rufus Youngblood, the

soon-to-be SAIC, replacing the absent Behn.[xli] What William

Manchester reports as having occurred at Parkland makes one both

sick and repulsed: "…Powers and O'Donnell bounded toward the

Lincoln. Powers heard Emory Roberts shouting at him to stop but

disregarded him; a second might save Kennedy's life [Dave, too

bad you weren't on the running board of the follow-up

car]...Emory Roberts brushed past O'Donnell, determined to make

sure that Kennedy was dead. 'Get up,' he said to Jacqueline

Kennedy. There was no reply. She was crooning faintly. From his

side Roberts could see the President's face, so he lifted her

elbow for a close look. He dropped it. To Kellerman, his

superior, he said tersely, 'You stay with Kennedy. I'm going to

Johnson.'"[xlii]

It is a shame that Emory Roberts cannot enlighten us on his

conduct: having never been questioned by the Warren Commission or

the FBI, he died on 10/8/73 at his Brookeville, MD home, after an

apparent heart attack. Roberts was 58 at the time.[xliii] Only

author William Manchester spoke to him (on 12/4/64 & 4/26/65,

respectively[xliv]). Incredibly, Roberts was the President’s

receptionist during the Johnson administration while still a

member of the Secret Service, receiving a Special Service Award

from the Treasury Department for improving communications and

services to the public in 1968[xlv] ---a year later, during the

start of the Nixon administration in 1969, Roberts was promoted

to the coveted position of Inspector at Secret Service

headquarters, responsible for overseeing a number of protective

procedures and policies. Roberts retired from the Secret Service

in February 1973.[xlvi]

In keeping with the above comments, the author has traced the

critical decision to have LBJ and Kennedy’s coffin aboard Air

Force One (instead of Air Force Two) back to the primary source:

Emory Roberts.[xlvii] “Official” history has it that Kenny

O’Donnell specifically told Lyndon Johnson to take the

presidential plane---Air Force One---rather than Air Force Two

because it allegedly had better communication equipment. This is

what LBJ alleged in his Warren Commission affidavit.[xlviii]

However, O’Donnell denied this, telling author William

Manchester: “The President and I had no conversation regarding

Air Force One. If we had known he was going on Air Force One, we

would have taken Air Force Two. One plane was like the

other.”[xlix] In fact, when Arlen Specter of the Warren

Commission asked O’Donnell, “Was there any discussion about his

[LBJ] taking the presidential plane, AF-1, as opposed to AF-2?”

O’Donnell responded: “There was not.”[l] In this regard,

O’Donnell later wrote in his book “Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye”

that a Warren Commission attorney---the aforementioned Arlen

Specter---asked him to “change his testimony so that it would

agree with the President’s”---an offer O’Donnell refused.[li]

With this in mind, author Jim Bishop reported: “Emory Roberts

suggested that Johnson leave at once for Air Force One…Roberts

asked Kenny O’Donnell and he said: “Yes.” Johnson refused to

move. Roberts returned to O’Donnell and asked again: “Is it all

right for Mr. Johnson to board Air Force One now?” “Yes”

O’Donnell said, “Yes [emphasis added].”[lii] This author believes

O’Donnell when he says he had no part in LBJ going to Air Force

One over Air Force Two. This was a Secret Service (Emory Roberts)

decision.

Finally, back to the subject of allegiance, Manchester wrote:

“The Secret Service…was riven by disunion. The agents were as

leaderless and perplexed as the rest of the Presidential party

[on 11/22/63]. A few (Kellerman, Hill) remained near Kennedy.

Others (Youngblood, Roberts, Johns) went with Johnson. Most were

following personal loyalties [emphasis added].”[liii] Roberts’

White House Communications Agency (WHCA) code name was

Dusty.[liv]

Even former agent Abraham Bolden was shocked at Roberts’

conduct.[lv]

Conclusion - a major suspect in both the security test and the

murder itself.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

“The Washington Post,” 10/11/73 Manchester, p.165

[ii] Author's interview with Howard Donahue, September 23, 1992

[iii] “The Washington Post,” 10/11/73 David Clark, Archivist,

Harry S. Truman Library & Museum: Reathel M. Odum Papers, Box 10.

Odum was Secretary to Mrs. Truman: 1945 - 1953

[iv] “The Washington Post,” 10/11/73 A picture of Roberts

protecting Nixon in Caracas can be found in “Know Your

Government: The U.S. Secret Service,” by Gregory Matusky & John

P. Hayes, page 36.

[v] E-mail to author dated 2/27/04

[vi] Letter to author dated 3/25/04

[vii] From the videotape presentations "Kennedy's Ireland" and

"JFK: A Celebration of his Life and Times" (the vehicle had the

D.C. license plate number GG678)

[viii] Author's interviews with Sam Kinney during October 1992,

March-April 1994

[ix] Author's interview with Art Godfrey (who guarded JFK at the

Hotel Texas in Fort Worth on the evening of November 21, 1963,

and was waiting for the president in Austin, when the

assassination occurred; for his part, Agent Stoutalso protected

President Truman during the assassination attempt at Blair House

in 1950 -- along with Floyd Boring) Their designation was ATSAIC

– Assistant to the Special Agent in Charge, a position right

below the ASAIC's.

[x] Author's interviews with Kinney (4/15/94) and Agent Don

Lawton (11/15/95). See also page 691 of Lamar Waldron’s book

“Ultimate Sacrifice” (New York: Carroll & Graf, 2005)

[xi] Peter Dale Scott, “Deep Politics and the Death of JFK.” See

also Gaeton Fonzi, “The Last Investigation” (New York: Thunder's

Mouth 1993); Author's interviews with Robert Bouck, September 27,

1992; HSCA document 180- 10074-10394, an interview with agent

Robert J. Jamison states: “the threat of November 18, 1963 was

posed by a mobile, unidentified rifleman with a high-powered

rifle fitted with a scope." In addition, HSCA document

180-10083-10419, an interview with Lubert F. deFreese, states: “a

threat did surface in connection with the Miami trip." Author’s

interviews with Sam Kinney

[xii] Author's interviews with: Jerry Behn (three on 9/27/92),

Robert Bouck (9/27/92) and Bob Lilley (three)

[xiii] 18H 738. Agent John Ready may have also been mentally

occupied: according to the Secret Service shift reports released

by the ARRB in the later 1990’s, an "emergency leave" took Ready

out of the White House detail from November 15-19, 1963, missing

the entire Florida trip [as verified by USSS RIF#

1541-0001-10081], although Ready claimed during his 3/1/78 HSCA

interview that he arrived in Miami on 11/18/63 for the Florida

trip with JFK, THEN went home upon being advised of a death in

his family. Although he did go back on duty November 21, in time

for the Texas trip, he did not ride in the follow up car in San

Antonio, Houston or Fort Worth on November 21, 1963.

[xiv] 18H665-702 Agents Hill, Ready, Landis and Bennett were the

guilty parties on Roberts' shift.

[xv] 18H679

[xvi] 18 H 665

[xvii] WFAA-TV (ABC's Dallas affiliate) on 11/22/63; 25H 787;

video shown on “The Men Who Killed Kennedy” 2003 by the author;

While SA Lawton states categorically in his 11/30/63 report that

“…my instructions were to remain at the airport to effect

security for the President’s departure,” Agent Rybka’s very

brief, vague, and UNDATED report contains no such disclaimer.

Rybka’s report is by far the briefest of the 29 reports submitted

to Chief Rowley and the Warren Commission. Many of the agents

submitted two (or more) reports, a good percentage of which were

multi-page reports and with some detail, not to mention a proper

date somewhere on the report.

[xviii] Advance man Jerry Bruno's notes from the JFK Library in

Boston. Agent Henry Rybka was also on the follow-up car team in

San Antonio on 11/21/63 In addition, the newly-released Cooper

film depicts Rybka jumping out of the follow-up car in Fort Worth

on 11/22/63 -- he was the first agent out of the car. On two of

the three stops, Rybka was not the driver.

[xix] Rybka was a member of the detail during at least the latter

Eisenhower years: Protective Survey Report dated 1/16/61 Re:

Inaugural Activities of the President on January 20, 1961,

conducted by SAIC James M. Beary (1-15 [Washington Field Office])

and SA H.S. Knight (1-16 [WHD])

[xx] Kellerman, 2 H 69: “Each agent carries his own gun. This is

a 4-inch revolver on their person.” See also Hill, 2 H 134

[xxi] Secret Service shift reports, November 1963.

[xxii] 18H739; 17 H 593-600: Lawson's Preliminary Survey Report

[dated 11/19/63]; 17 H 601-617: Lawson's Final Survey Report.

[xxiii] 18 H 739

[xxiv] USSS RIF # 1541-0001-10031

[xxv] USSS RIF # 1541-0001-10127

[xxvi] USSS RIF #s 1541-0001-10132 & 1541-0001-10125

[xxvii] 18 H 738

[xxviii] Cecil Stoughton photos from John F.Kennedy Library in

Boston; Author’s interviews with agents Don Lawton and Chuck

Zboril (November 1995)

[xxix] 25 H 786

[xxx] 18 H 803-809

[xxxi] 18H 734-735 Manchester, page 155 Manchester did interview

Emory Roberts twice (p.667).

[xxxii] 18H735-739 --the first transmission was made a full

minute before the shooting, while the other was made after the

shooting

[xxxiii] 5 H 453

[xxxiv] 18H 749-750;also 734.Manchester, pages 155-156, 165

[xxxv] Roberts and Ready’s reports, CD 3 Exhibits

[xxxvi] “High Treason,” pages 14 and 417.

[xxxvii] Hill also described the president's skull defect as

located in the "right rear" with the actual missing piece of

skull lying in the back of the car. This was confirmed by Agent

Sam Kinney to the author on two occasions

[xxxviii] RIF# 180-10093-10320: 5/31/77 Memorandum from HSCA’s

Belford Lawson to fellow HSCA members’ Gary Cornwell & Ken Klein

(revised 8/15/77)

[xxxix] “Johnny We Hardly Knew Ye” by O'Donnell, Ken, Dave Powers

and Joe McCarthy, p. 34

[xl] Manchester, pages 165 & 175; Curry, pages 36-37; “Farewell

America” (Hepburn), page 229 “The Flying White House,” p.215.

[xli] Manchester, pages 170, 175-176, 233

[xlii] Manchester 170, 232-233; interviews with Kinney and Boring

in March and April 1994. See also Bishop, page 195. The Texas

trip was apparently Kellerman's first MAJOR, multi-stop trip on

his own in a supervisory capacity, for the November 8th and 9th

shift reports place Kellerman in New York (without Agents Behn or

Boring). However, this was not the more publicized trip that JFK

made to the same city a few days later (11/14 and 15 with Floyd

Boring, who was ALSO on the Elkton, MD and Florida trips around

this same time period). Evidently, the president made a low-key

trip---that even advance agent Godfrey couldn’t remember (see

chapter two)--- to New York before the NYC trip that was well

covered in the media. This first NY trip, for all intents and

purposes, was unknown to researchers today until the author

‘discovered’ it (in contrast to the infamous second NY trip).

Also, no motorcade was involved on this trip, an important

distinction from the second NY trip days later.

[xliii] “The Washington Post,” 10/11/73. Agent Rex Scouten to

author (Letter received 9/98): "Emory Roberts, a very good friend

of mine, died in the late 60's as I recall [actually

10/8/73]---returned home from work one afternoon----laid down on

the bed and suffered a major heart attack---and died."

[xliv] Manchester, page 667

[xlv] “The Washington Post,” 10/11/73

[xlvi] “The Washington Post,” 10/11/73

[xlvii] Manchester, pages 232 - 235; Bishop, pages 199, 200, 244,

247, & 249; "A Woman Called Jackie," page 403; 18 H 736; 2 H 152;

5 H 562-563.

[xlviii] 5 H 563

[xlix] “Crossfire” by Jim Marrs, pages 296-297. See also Bishop,

page 259, and Manchester, pages 234-235.

[l] 7 H 451 See also “Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye,” pages 35 and 38

[li] Marrs, page 297. In fact, as noted by researcher David

Starks in his 1994 video “The Investigations,” while Specter’s

name appears in the hardcover version of O’Donnell’s book, it was

deleted from the mass-market paperback [page 41]!

[lii] Bishop, page 244.

[liii] Manchester, page 176

[liv] Ibid. page xxi.

[lv] Author’s interview with Bolden, 9/16/93

"This was quite often a spur-of-the-moment decision based on the speed of the cars, the size and proximity of the crowd, and the potential for threat(s) at the moment (often, the two agents on the rear of JFK's limousine took their own initiative in going between the two cars, as agent Clint Hill did several times in Dallas."

.Bernice.......and Clint Hill was the only SA agent, to use that initiative.

SA Ready did not move during the motorcade to protect President Kennedy from

the rear right bumper, when he finally did attempt to, after the JFK had been hit, Roberts called him back...And thus, this allowed an unobstructed line of fire for the shooters ..

""Cover-up number two: Both Emory Roberts and Winston Lawson placed Agent Rybka in the follow-up car in their initial reports, only to "correct" the record later, after November 22, although Rybka was not even mentioned anywhere in Agent Lawson's Preliminary Survey Report--making it seem obvious that he was covering Emory Roberts' behind.19 As the cars approached the Main and Houston Street intersection, Clint Hill fell back to the follow-up car. Agent Hill was the only agent to ride on the rear of the limousine in Dallas and he was not even assigned to JFK (as a last-minute addition to the trip, Agent Hill was, like Paul Landis, part of Jackie's detail, and came at the First Lady's personal request). John Ready, a relatively new agent, never approached JFK's side of the limousine. Why not? Emory Roberts explained: "SA Ready would have done the same thing (as Agent Hill did) if motorcycle was not a President's corner of car"(!)20 Strange, but this posed no problem at all for Agent Don Lawton on November 18, 1963, in Tampa21 (but unfortunately, like Rybka, Lawton was left at Love Field and was not in the motorcade detail).22 In any event, there was always cooperation between the motorcycles and the agents; they maneuvered around each other countless times, including in Dallas on November 22. ""

http://www.jfklink.com/articles/EmoryRoberts.html

********************************

Below is a quote from Vince Palamara's " Survivor's Guilt" p 55, chapter 7...

Information from a very sad episode in history, the execution of

President John F.Kennedy,and in relation to the aftermath..

Famous reporter Merriman Smith, who rode in the Dallas motorcade, was

close to the Secret Service:

He"....lived so closely with Sercret Service men that he came to share their views

on many of the problems involved in protecting presidents...We've shared some

terrible moments. A Secret Service agent once came to me months after Dallas

and said he still suffered from horrible nightmares in which he would relive the

assassination scene. He was loosing sleep and weight and, he was afraid his

nerves. I told him that the same thing had happened to me, and that I had finally

gone to a psychiatrist about the problem..."

Timothy G.Smith (ed), "Merriman Smith's Book of President's : A White House

Memoir". pages 225, 234, 235..

Merriman Smith committed suicide in 1970: a self- inflicted gunshot wound.

I believe some SA were involved, but certainly not all....one who suffered for

many years was SA Clint Hill........the only hero that day..imo..

the photo shows all within his face, frame from 60 minutes...

******************************

SS Fact Sheet

http://www.jfk-assassination.net/palamara/factsheet_vmp.html

Below Altgens showing Emory Roberts possibley on the radio mike....

Showing Emory Roberts..in the Dallas Cinema Film, from Marcel..

Clint Hill on bumper..during motorcade.....

SS Evidence flow chart......

Emory Roberts statement, he never appeared nor was called upon by the W/C....

Rybka left behind at Love field..

Clint Hill on 60 minutes...

Emory Roberts & Floyd Boring

Queen Mary Agents

Hill Kellerman & Greer 1970

Clint Hill Motorcade

B

Edited May 31, 2007 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

Da bump...

[Don Jeffries]

Bernice,

Great stuff you posted. Thanks!

I have never understood why so many bright, honest conspiracy believers have such a strong desire to pardon JFK's Secret Service detail for what, to many of us, seems a clear and obvious dereliction of duty. I don't think for a second that Bill Greer or Emory Roberts was one of the masterminds behind the plot to kill the president, but their actions that day were unusual enough to arouse anyone's suspicion. Secret Service agents are trained to follow orders. Since Greer and Roberts, at least, appear to have bypassed normal procedures on November 22, 1963, it is reasonable to suppose they had been given other orders prior to the assassination. When he waved agent Henry Rybka away from the limousine at Love Field, Roberts was exhibiting behavior that became extremely suspicious in light of what happened shortly afterwards. When he ordered agent John Ready to stay on the Secret Service car just as he was about to rush towards the limousine (actually do his job), Roberts exhibited even more curious behavior, which was instantly suspicious since agent Ready was attempting to react as trained to the sound of gunfire. Against all logic, Roberts stopped him from doing his job. As was shown by Bernice in her previous post, Roberts also lied in his report. In any real investigation, Roberts would have been grilled relentlessly by those conducting the inquiry. That goes for all the Secret Service agents, whose total lack of response was never criticized by anyone until citizen activists like Mark Lane, Harold Weisberg and Sylvia Meagher started writing books that questioned the official story.

As for Greer, I understand the idea that you don't drive into the line of fire. As Ron and others have pointed out, however, Greer never stated that he thought he WAS driving into the line of fire. If he actually thought that the shots were coming from behind him, it is inexcusable that he did not instantly hit the accelerator. I agree that his "advanced age" is a lame rationale here; I'm getting closer to 54 every day, and it seems younger to me all the time. Greer is important because, as the driver of the limousine, he was the one person in Dealey Plaza (other than perhaps Jackie) who could have almost certainly saved the president's life with quicker reflexes. The fact that we can all see him look back at JFK twice, while actually slowing the car down, just feeds the inescapable notion that he must have been ordered to slow down until JFK was mortally wounded. We can all understand how there might have been a few individual agents who failed to react as trained to the sound of gunfire, but ALL of them standing idly by, as some of them (including the actual driver) stared at him and must have obviously known he had been hit by gunfire, is incomprehensible unless they were told to.

I think that it is possible that the Secret Service was told ahead of time that a "mock" assassination attempt was going to happen in Dallas. Whether the rationale was to "teach JFK a lesson" about his the dangerous chances he was taking with his security, or something else, that is the only possible explanation, other than at least Roberts and Greer having advance notice of the assassination, for their curious actons and lack of response, imho. Just my two cents worth.

[Ron Ecker]

Why did Kellerman tell Greer to "get out of line"? Isn't that rather imprecise language? Was it set procedure that in the event of some threat to a motorcade the order was to be "get out of line," as opposed to, say, "step on it" or "let's get out of here," language that would seemingly prompt a more immediate response, as the meaning is unequivocal? Was it up to the driver to decide what "get out of line" meant in a given situation?

The impreciseness of the order "get out of line" was compounded by the fact that they weren't in any line, in the sense of being within one. There was no vehicle immediately in front of them, there was nothing but lots of open space (ideal, of course, for a shooting gallery). They were in effect at the head of the line. So what did "get out of line" mean? Turn left, turn right, turn around, or (as seems most obvious) "use your own discretion"?

It's conceivable that Kellerman, when he had to give an order, gave one that was deliberately imprecise, leaving it up to Greer (apparently not the sharpest guy in the detail) to decide what to do.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Ron Ecker

[John Dolva]

Why did Kellerman tell Greer to "get out of line"? Isn't that rather imprecise language? Was it set procedure that in the event of some threat to a motorcade the order was to be "get out of line," as opposed to, say, "step on it" or "let's get out of here," language that would seemingly prompt a more immediate response, as the meaning is unequivocal? Was it up to the driver to decide what "get out of line" meant in a given situation?

The impreciseness of the order "get out of line" was compounded by the fact that they weren't in any line, in the sense of being within one. There was no vehicle immediately in front of them, there was nothing but lots of open space (ideal, of course, for a shooting gallery). They were in effect at the head of the line. So what did "get out of line" mean? Turn left, turn right, turn around, or (as seems most obvious) "use your own discretion"?

It's conceivable that Kellerman, when he had to give an order, gave one that was deliberately imprecise, leaving it up to Greer (apparently not the sharpest guy in the detail) to decide what to do.

IMO:

It suggests to me that Kellerman had a clear notion of what 'the line' was, ie trajectory, and assumed it was as obvious to others. Any rapid speed change and weaving would make tracking the target difficult and increase the possibility that the assassin(s) would be more reckless thus exposing shooting position. Concurrent with this would be possibility of the Queen Mary forced into action, catching up, or discharging armed agents to attack said exposed shooter positions.

I don't think Kellerman clambering over anything in his way to throw himself over Kennedy and pull Jackie down without regard for secondary charactes like Connally is ridiculous at all. Hill's ability to mount and maneuver on the Limo as it sped up shows this to be possible.

When De Gaulle was shot at by machine guns in august '62, 14 out of 150 odd bullets hit the Citroen and even with two tires shot out he escaped unhurt.

The idea often raised that there were contingency plans must consider that said contingency plans negates the notion that Oswald was prepared as the sole patsy.

Had the DP shooting been unsuccessful any subsequent attempt on the day would have completely blown that notion out of the water. IOW a conspiracy would be obvious and that would then be the investigative agenda.

Timing an explosion based on an awareness that the shooting had been unsuccessful begs instant communication. And then would have to be timed to perfecion with a speeding Limousine with Kennedy down, protected by persons and metal. As has been said, it was not until the arrival in trauma room 1 that the assassination came to be known to have been successful.

Greers slow responses, for whatever reason, greatly assured success.

[Shanet Clark]

Emory Roberts memorandum of Nov. 22, 1963 is

very brief, terse and

generally unresponsive...and

his statement of a speed of 20-25 miles per hour is obviously false.

Let blame fall where it may, the officials under Secretary CD Dillon were suspiciously

inadequate to the prime mission of protecting the President under fire.

[Duke Lane]

Why did Kellerman tell Greer to "get out of line"? Isn't that rather imprecise language? Was it set procedure that in the event of some threat to a motorcade the order was to be "get out of line," as opposed to, say, "step on it" or "let's get out of here," language that would seemingly prompt a more immediate response, as the meaning is unequivocal? Was it up to the driver to decide what "get out of line" meant in a given situation?

....

I think it's a mistake to presume that the "get out of line" - or, more fully, "get out of line, we are hit" - quote is an exact quote of what he said, verbatim, at the very moment. Most adults are prone to saying what they meant, or what they thought they said, whenever they recount it.

It could, of course, be argued that he remembered exactly what he'd said in that rarefied moment, in much the same way that people old enough to remember much of anything at all at the time can tell you exactly where they were and what they were doing when they'd heard the news 40-plus years ago. If that's so, then we've got to account for his testimony (twice on 2H74 and again at 2H75):

That is when I completely turned to my right and grabbed for the mike in the same motion, sideways telling the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit."

"Let's get out of here," not "Get out of line."

He also testified - and affirmed in his testimony - that he'd heard Kennedy say "My God, I am hit!" ... which is fine, other than the facts that /a/ Mrs Kennedy testified that her husband never said a word, and /b/ he apparently had a hole through his throat at the time, not entirely conducive to saying anything in an audible voice.

Yet, he said, "Why I am so positive, gentlemen, that it was his voice there is only one man in that back seat that was from Boston, and the accents carried very clearly."

So, you decide.

[Ron Ecker]

then we've got to account for his testimony (twice on 2H74 and again at 2H75):

That is when I completely turned to my right and grabbed for the mike in the same motion, sideways telling the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit."

"Let's get out of here," not "Get out of line."

Well, now I'm totally confused. You are right that he says "Let's get out of here" in his WC testimony. And in his original report he says he said "Step on it." And Greer testified that Kellerman said "Get out of here fast."

I had the seemingly distinct memory that Kellerman said "Get out of line," but now I have no idea where (I thought) I read it. I apologize to the forum for raising an apparently non-existent issue.

[Robert Davidson]

...I was simply trying to educate those who were perhaps fortunate enough to not have undergone the same type of training that was required of me.

I suppose however, it is difficult for a non educator, to attempt to educate the already truly educated.

You should believe whatever it is that makes you happy !

Charles Black

Not to be a negative influence here (and to stand to speak when I much prefer to keep my head down and just lurk and enjoy, which I will return to when I've posted this), but if you quiz a ground solider who has been faced with the actual situation, on the ONLY accepted response to an ambush (particularly an L-shaped ambush), you will discover that they will overwhelmingly say "Through it...you open up an run through it". You would absolutely NOT retreat at that point, "cargo" focused or not (no cargo is more precious than your own glutes, at that point anyhow). To pause or retreat is considered sure suicide. As far as I know it's taught this way, and certainly it's been practiced this way.

I didn't have a combat MOS; mine was medical training, but I was on the periphery of it all, '66 through '69. I've heard this verbally from long suffering 11 B's, and I've seen it written in at least one written account of that war. Perhaps from the vantage point of set-piece tactics your training is sound and acceptable, but not, according to friends and fellow soldiers, when you're knee-deep and you have rounds sucking past your ears.

I offer this as counterpoint, not inflammatory or demeaning.