Paul Trejo Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark Knight said: That, indeed, was my point. If you are going to cite testimony--that to which one testifies--it MIGHT be a good thing to produce such testimony. A RUMOR that he had $1,600 is NOT "testimony." Nor is WC discussion of such a rumor. Again, I challenge Mr. Trejo: SHOW ME THE MONEY. Or the testimony, actually. Just Marguerite citing that a newspaper article said that Oswald had $1,600 is NOT evidence that Oswald ACTUALLY had $1,600. SHOW ME THE MONEY. According to Epstein, Oswald apparently spent considerable funds "socializing" while in Japan. How is that consistent with YOUR portrayal of Ozzie the miser who saved every penny? Either one account or the other is false. Oswald purchased a .22 when he was in Japan. When he was busted for the illegal possession of a weapon, he took a pay cut in addition to his reduction in rank. SHOW ME THE MONEY. Mr. Knight, OK, my first articulation of this point was imperfect. I apologize for that. Nevertheless, my explanation of my point was correct. The $1,600 figure was common knowledge in a newspaper article known to Marguerite Oswald and also to J. Lee Rankin of the Warren Commission. It was part of the WC testimony as I quoted, word for word. Next, Mr. Knight, you ask me to PROVE that LHO really had that $1,600. Why me? Why isn't it enough that the Warren Commission attorney J. Lee Rankin recognized it and challenged Marguerite Oswald with it? Why isn't it enough that Marguerite Oswald was broken-hearted to be reminded of this allegation, and requested a recess of the WC proceedings (which Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren granted)? Is it really necessary for me to provide material proof of J. Lee Rankin's data? Will James DiEugenio be required to produce similar proof for what he says about Ruth Paine? Yes? No? Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 22, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Paul: ... Tom Scully called you a xxxxx. I am beginning to think he is correct. If so, its an issue for the moderators to ponder. James, Do you really want to raise the specter of the former Moderator, the well-known Tom Scully here? Tom Scully, who was asked to step down because of his abuse of members who didn't agree with his CIA-did-it CT, used to insinuate that I was a CIA operative, sent here by the CIA to spread "disinformation" in order to defend the CIA from attacks by CTKA and Tom Scully. No matter how many times I repeated here that I have no relationship of any kind with the CIA, Tom Scully continued to badger me. I will repeat the same to you, James. I am not in any way connected with the CIA, and I am not here to spread "disinformation." I am here to express my personal opinion, pure and simple. I have said so countless hundreds of times on this Forum in the past five years. I suggest that readers here Google the word, "paranoia". In the spirit of Xmas, I sincerely hope that people who find the CIA under every bed will seek professional help. Just because the CIA-did-it CT is ridiculous, does not mean that its opponents are here to "spread disinformation." We need to defend freedom of expression. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 22, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) The true source for that sum is Oswald himself through Aline Mosby. The idea Oswald would admit a secret source of funds is ridiculous. It would have blown his cover. To say your declaration of it is "imperfect" is a little bit ludicrous. You said that both Robert Oswald and his mom testified to this before the WC. After several hours of toil, I found out this was not the case. You then used this figure to explain how Oswald left the USA, landed in France and England, and then flew to Helsinki, staying in two high class luxury hotels for about a 5-6 day period. Then, before entering the USSR he spent another 300 bucks for a currency transfer. All of this with a 203.00 bank account. Even the WC admitted they had no proof that Oswald did have that sum. But they had to assume it was true because if you do not assume its true then you have to admit that Oswald was being aided on his way to the USSR. I mean what kind of a communist stays in a five star luxury hotel while awaiting a visa? And how did Oswald know to go to Helsinki anyway to get the fastest expedited visa in all of Europe? The WC never dealt with that issue at all. As they never deal with the problem of the luxury hotels. As per Trejo's comments above, Its too bad Tom is not here. But from my knowledge, the reason he left is not what Trejo says it was. As I recall it, he and I were censored because of Hank Albarelli's complaint over the Mary Meyer issue. I chose to return when the new management took over. Tom did not. If this is correct, then Tom left over his critique of a wild and illogical CIA plot. About the opposite of what he is accused of. Edited December 22, 2016 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: The true source for that sum is Oswald himself through Aline Mosby. The idea Oswald would admit a secret source of funds is ridiculous. It would have blown his cover. To say your declaration of it is "imperfect" is a little bit ludicrous. You said that both Robert Oswald and his mom testified to this before the WC. After several hours of toil, I found out this was not the case. You then used this figure to explain how Oswald left the USA, landed in France and England, and then flew to Helsinki, staying in two high class luxury hotels for about a 5-6 day period. Then, before entering the USSR he spent another 300 bucks for a currency transfer. All of this with a 203.00 bank account. Even the WC admitted they had no proof that Oswald did have that sum. But they had to assume it was true because if you do not assume its true then you have to admit that Oswald was being aided on his way to the USSR. I mean what kind of a communist stays in a five star luxury hotel while awaiting a visa? And how did Oswald know to go to Helsinki anyway to get the fastest expedited visa in all of Europe? The WC never dealt with that issue at all. As they never deal with the problem of the luxury hotels. James, To imagine a "secret source of funds" is just making stuff up. If Aline Mosby is incorrect, then let's see some PROOF. I'm asked to prove PROOF that Mosby was right -- so I have a right to ask for PROOF that she was wrong. You are complaining about what, James? About reading the Warren Commission testimony, finally? I quoted it here. My quotes are solid and demonstrate my research. Marguerite Oswald could not tolerate the idea that LHO had $1,600 and would only share $100 with her, when she was ill and hoped that LHO would stay with her -- having quit the Marines for that purpose, and having told the Marines that he was quitting to take care of his mother. Robert Oswald told the WC that he urged LHO to stay in the Marines only a few more weeks until his regular tour of duty was over -- but LHO refused -- suggesting that LHO was truly worried about his mother. Instead, LHO left his mother $100 and took a boat to Europe after only three days. Later, in his correspondence with Robert, LHO admitted he had planned his trip to the USSR for many months. LHO's Marine buddy, Nelson Delgado, also testified that LHO tended to stay on the Marine base and save his money. Was this all a CIA plot? CTKA suggests that it was -- but that requires making stuff up. The facts shown by sworn testimony in the WC volumes can be interpreted to suggest that LHO wanted recognition for teaching himself Russian -- and he was willing to go to great lengths for this recognition. J. Lee Rankin told Marguerite Oswald that LHO had "quite a little bit of money" when he quit the Marines -- and that started Marguerite on an emotional downturn. She was in denial. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 22, 2016 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Blah, blah blah Paul. You are the one who misquoted the testimony. The only evidence in the record is that Oswald had a 203.00 in his bank account when he left. That would not even buy him his freighter ticket. He goes to Helsinki which hast he fastest turnover time in all of Europe on USSR visas. How did she know that? And why would he stay at the Torni and Klaus Kurki? Oswald was killed, so the actual facts of this matter will not be resolved conclusively. But for you to manufacture evidence to prop up your side is something that tells us a lot about how good your argument is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: ....but that requires making stuff up. Classic. 2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: The facts shown by sworn testimony in the WC volumes can be interpreted to suggest that LHO wanted recognition for teaching himself Russian... Prepare ship...prepare ship...for LUDICROUS SPEED!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: Blah, blah blah Paul. You are the one who misquoted the testimony. The only evidence in the record is that Oswald had a 203.00 in his bank account when he left. That would not even buy him his freighter ticket. He goes to Helsinki which hast he fastest turnover time in all of Europe on USSR visas. How did she know that? And why would he stay at the Torni and Klaus Kurki? Oswald was killed, so the actual facts of this matter will not be resolved conclusively. But for you to manufacture evidence to prop up your side is something that tells us a lot about how good your argument is. James, I manufacture no evidence -- my evidence is the sworn WC testimony. I quoted it word-for-word. Show me your evidence that LHO had $203 in his bank account when he left the USA in September 1963. Can you show the dates on the bank statement? Are you certain that this was LHO's one and only bank account? What are your sources? SHOW ME THE MONEY. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) In footnote, unlike your posts, i annotated that statement to reliable source. Now you come around and say, what is your source? If you are trying to gain any traction for whatever it is you think about this case, its not working very well. Edited December 23, 2016 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: In my fist footnote,unlike your posts, i annotated that statement to reliable source. Now you come around and say, what is your source? If you are trying to gain any traction for whatever it is you think about this case, its not working very well. Jimbo, That's IT? Your source is the questionable book by Phil Melanson, Spy Saga, on page 13 ?? And that, to you, is a better resource than J. Lee Rankin's sources? Time for a closer look, Jimbo. Here's the text from Phil Melanson (which I note here is another 20th century source, full of guesswork):: ----- BEGIN EXTRACT FROM PHIL MELANSON'S SPY SAGA (1990) PAGE 38 ----------- Firstly, there is financing. The trip cost at least $1500. The Warren Commission decided that Oswald, being frugal, saved the money out of his Marine Corps pay. <49> Before his departure for Moscow his bank account reflected only $203. He could have squirreled away $1300 in cash and carried it around with him to pay for his trip (awkward, but by no means impossible); or his trip could have been subsidized by someone. Friends and relatives claim not to have given him any money during this period, but perhaps someone else did. (Melanson, 1990) ----- END EXTRACT FROM PHIL MELANSON'S SPY SAGA (1990) PAGE 38 ----------- So, your "footnote" source, Jimbo, is this quasi-novel from 1990, which does not offer any sources or footnotes itself, but merely states as an assertion, that LHO's bank account had only $203. Melanson's conclusion is: "his trip could have been subsidized by someone." And this is your source, Jimbo? Please say it isn't so. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 49 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Jimbo, That's IT? Your source is the questionable book by Phil Melanson, Spy Saga, on page 13 ?? And that, to you, is a better resource than J. Lee Rankin's sources? Time for a closer look, Jimbo. Regards, --Paul Trejo Wait.... didn't the WC produce evidence showing what the balance was in Oswald's bank account? The $203? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Wait.... didn't the WC produce evidence showing what the balance was in Oswald's bank account? The $203? Sandy, As I showed, J. Lee Rankin of the WC cited "quite a little money" and the Mosby article claiming LHO had $1,600, during testimony. Where did you see any figure of $203 in the WC testimony? I'm very curious. I don't remember it, and I consider myself fluent in WC testimony. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 16 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Sandy, As I showed, J. Lee Rankin of the WC cited "quite a little sum of money" and the Mosby article claiming LHO had $1,600, during testimony. Where did you see any figure of $203 in the WC testimony? I'm very curious. I don't remember it, and I consider myself fluent in WC testimony. Furthermore, how certain are we that LHO had one and only one bank account? These are still open questions after 53 years. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, I just find it hard to believe that the FBI didn't investigate Oswald's bank account(s). And I find it hard to believe that the WC didn't report what the FBI discovered. (Unless they didn't like what the FBI found, for whatever reason.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Paul, I just find it hard to believe that the FBI didn't investigate Oswald's bank account(s). And I find it hard to believe that the WC didn't report what the FBI discovered. (Unless they didn't like what the FBI found, for whatever reason.) Sandy, I also find it hard to believe that it's so difficult to get financial data on Lee Harvey Oswald, after 53 years. However, we have to work with what we have. I am working from WC testimony. In the absence of other information, it seems that Phil Melanson just invented the $203 and plugged it in there because it supported his CIA-did-it CT. Phil Melanson appears to be the source of the $203 figure -- but he doesn't offer a bank source. Actually, Melanson wrote in 1990, long before the publication of the Lopez Report, so that, e.g. about Mexico City, his work is full of guesswork, innuendo and supposition. Where did Phil Melanson get this $203 dollar figure? It is very precise. It's not $200 and it's not $210, but exactly $203, so it sounds promising (although, most bank accounts also include pennies in the sum, and that concerns me). I will say this -- it is possible that Melanson is talking about LHO's bank account after LHO defected to the USSR. But that's not what I'm talking about -- and not what Mosby is talking about; we are talking about LHO's money before he defected. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Oswald's bank account(s)... The bank Account problem was addressed in the WC Executive Sessions. Essentially complaining that they had nothing, no bank accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: The bank Account problem was addressed in the WC Executive Sessions. Essentially complaining that they had nothing, no bank accounts. Chris, Then where do you suppose that Phil Melanson got his $203 figure to describe LHO's money before he went to Europe? Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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