Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey Oswald and Harry Dean

[Chris Newton]

1 minute ago, Paul Trejo said:

Then where do you suppose that Phil Melanson got his $203 figure to describe LHO's money before he went to Europe?

I have no idea, I'm just telling you that the lack of financial records was a real problem for the WC. If I'm not mistaken, the Executive  Session transcript that discloses the issue is the same in which they debate LHO's possible agency affiliations and the difficulty in disproving whether he is an agent or not.

You weren't in the military as an enlisted man, so I find it hard to fathom how you can be so sure he could save that amount of money. I would have been hard pressed to save that amount myself on enlisted pay 20 years later in the eighties. $203 sounds generous for the times. That's about $1400 in today's dollars.

[James DiEugenio]

Why does anyone even talk to Trejo about this stuff?  First he calls the work of Melanson, one of the finest writers on the JFK and RFK cases, a "novel" when in fact, as I showed Cafuield's book is really that.

 He then makes a reference to the Lopez Report, as f that has anything to do with this subject of Oswald's defection.  

He then tries to confuse things even more by saying that maybe that is the amount he had upon his return!

Baloney.

Here is the transcript to the 1993 PBS documentary as you can see, Melanson's figure is correct.

Where did he get the money for his extensive travels? He later claimed he had saved over $1,000 while in the Marines, but records show he had only $200 in his bank account. As a deluxe-class tourist Oswald received the personal attention of his own Intourist guide, Rimma Shirokova.

[Mark Knight]

After Ozzie got "busted" by the USMC for possession of the unauthorized pistol, he was busted from a PFC to a basic private...an E-1.

Here's the Navy pay chart for 1958-1962:

https://www.navycs.com/charts/1958-military-pay-chart.html

So basically Ozzie was making $83.20 a month from that point.  From there, if he never spent another cent, he'd have take over 19 months to accumulate $1,600.

His pay at the time of his enlistment was about the same:

https://www.navycs.com/charts/1955-military-pay-chart.

The Mosby interview occurred AFTER he entered the Soviet Union (13 Nov 1959), so Oswald might have told her ANYTHING.  Because he TOLD Mosby he had saved the money does NOT mean he actually did save the money. He spent SOME money when he was going off base in Japan....

Mr. Trejo, I HAVE "shown you the money." Or at least how much he made while in the Marines.

The odds are greatest that the $1,600 savings only existed in his claim to Mosby, and not here in the real world. [In 2016 dollars, that $1,600 from 1959 would be $13,270.27.]

[Chris Newton]

3 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

So basically Ozzie was making $83.20 a month from that point.  From there, if he never spent another cent, he'd have take over 19 months to accumulate $1,600.

 

The are basic items an enlisted man must still pay for out of his own pocket. Taxes, Shower articles, laundry, uniform maintenance, shoe polish, etc. The services are usually paid bi-weekly so out of that HUGE paycheck of $46.20 how much could he have truly set aside? $5. $10.?

[Paul Trejo]

The fact remains that people are only guessing at this point.  IF HE ONLY MADE THIS MUCH, THEN HE ONLY HAD THIS MUCH.

Phil Melanson and his "Spy Saga" novel offer no help at all.   Mosby had two qualifications -- literary ambition and a personal interview with Lee Harvey Oswald.   Phil Melanson had one qualification -- literary ambition.

Nobody but nobody has been able to show a credible verification of the precise amount of $203.   So there.  It's just CIA-did-it CT dogma at this point.

HOWEVER -- let us accept Chris' and Mark's estimations going by the payroll given to Marines.   Let us estimate that LHO would have to save nearly every dime he got in the Marines to amass $1,600.   Not impossible, but for the sake of argument, I will concede the difficulty.

It matters little to my theory.  The only reason I belabored the point was because Mark Knight challenged me on it, and so I showed that the $1,600 figure came from J. Lee Rankin's WC questioning of Marguerite Oswald.   I showed where I got my figure.  Y'all are still guessing about the $203.

Actually -- according to my theory -- as I have often repeated -- the account given by former CIA agent Victor Marchetti is believable, namely, that LHO was a part of an ONI "dangle" operation in the USSR.  A "dangle" is a beginner or trainee spy mission -- which involves reporting the location of one or more subjects in coordination with many other "dangles," but never knowing who the other "dangles" are, or where they are, or why the subjects are being located.  

It's the sort of thing that a CIA-wannabe would do.  It seems most likely to me, anyway, that LHO was a CIA wannabe, always ambitious, always grabbing for the gold ring, even though he was a high-school dropout, could hardly spell, and couldn't even drive a car.

There is no doubt that LHO was intelligent -- but he was also deprived by crass poverty.   LHO taught himself Russian by using Berlitz during 1959 (Delgado) and staying at the Marine base almost continually to do this.  It is likely that LHO wanted a job with the CIA so bad that he could taste it.  But that doesn't mean he made the grade.

The thing about a "dangle," suggests Marchetti, is that it is a long-term project.  It takes years.  You show your patience, your reliability, your loyalty, and your ability to be a team player.  We don't know how LHO scored in his "dangle" internship, but we do know that he quit the USSR abruptly after he married Marina, and that his Marine discharge was downgraded after that.  Perhaps he didn't do well.  Perhaps his poor spelling botched communications.  We don't know yet.

Just as we don't yet know LHO's finances.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Sandy Larsen]

Here's my take on Oswald's bank account:

The WC most assuredly knew about Oswald's bank account(s). They most assuredly knew month-by-month balances. There is no reason to believe that they wouldn't have gathered this basic information.

So why isn't it reported in the WC Report? Why is the information not in the 26 volumes of evidence? The only reason IMO is because the WC didn't like what they saw. Either the balances were too high or too low. Or there were hard-to-explain deposits.

Certainly the WC wanted the balance to be on the high side just before Oswald's trip to the Soviet Union, so that he could afford the trip and the five-star hotel stays. They certainly wanted a low balance when Oswald was between jobs and even when employed because he was a low wage earner. I believe that the WC didn't see this, and so they suppressed the information.

[Mark Knight]

From a 1964 FBI interview with Allen R. Felde, a former Marine enlistee with LHO, it was learned that Oswald took a cab with fellow Marines into "Tiajuana" [sic], and that he rode a bus with other marines into Los Angeles when they were on leave from Camp Pendleton. So Ozzie wasn't staying on base then.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11624#relPageId=4

 

Nelson Delgado said in an interview that Oswald went to Tijuana with himself and several other marines in 1959 also.  Oswald recommended a particular bar, and later they all found some girls and spent time [and money] to rent separate hotel rooms. Does that sound like a guy who spent all his free time on base hoarding his money?

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10797&search=Oswald_Marines#relPageId=3&tab=page

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

The are basic items an enlisted man must still pay for out of his own pocket. Taxes, Shower articles, laundry, uniform maintenance, shoe polish, etc. The services are usually paid bi-weekly so out of that HUGE paycheck of $46.20 how much could he have truly set aside? $5. $10.?

Chris,

The evidence of LHO's poor treatment of Marina and baby June at a Dallas hospital in 1962 demonstrates clearly that LHO was a miser.  

LHO refused to spend his own money, even when his own baby was running a fever.   Thus testified Lydia Dymitruk. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

55 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Here's my take on Oswald's bank account:

The WC most assuredly knew about Oswald's bank account(s). They most assuredly knew month-by-month balances. There is no reason to believe that they wouldn't have gathered this basic information.

So why isn't it reported in the WC Report? Why is the information not in the 26 volumes of evidence? The only reason IMO is because the WC didn't like what they saw. Either the balances were too high or too low. Or there were hard-to-explain deposits.

Certainly the WC wanted the balance to be on the high side just before Oswald's trip to the Soviet Union, so that he could afford the trip and the five-star hotel stays. They certainly wanted a low balance when Oswald was between jobs and even when employed because he was a low wage earner. I believe that the WC didn't see this, and so they suppressed the information.

Sandy,

I agree with this in principle.   I only add that none of us is qualified to just make stuff up in order to fill the void.

One likely scenario -- based on 50-year old evidence from Texas -- is that LHO got pin-money from local FBI guys to snitch on the locals, and the FBI insisted on concealing that for 75 years.

Note that even this scenario wouldn't make LHO an "Intelligence Agent," only a snitch.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

55 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

From a 1964 FBI interview with Allen R. Felde, a former Marine enlistee with LHO, it was learned that Oswald took a cab with fellow Marines into "Tiajuana" [sic], and that he rode a bus with other marines into Los Angeles when they were on leave from Camp Pendleton. So Ozzie wasn't staying on base then.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11624#relPageId=4

Nelson Delgado said in an interview that Oswald went to Tijuana with himself and several other marines in 1959 also.  Oswald recommended a particular bar, and later they all found some girls and spent time [and money] to rent separate hotel rooms. Does that sound like a guy who spent all his free time on base hoarding his money?

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10797&search=Oswald_Marines#relPageId=3&tab=page

Mark,

Let's look at the actual words of Delgado -- otherwise the false impression may arise that LHO would spend his money regularly at bars -- which was not the case.  Here is the actual WC testimony:

Mr. LIEBELER - What did you just say? 
Mr. DELGADO - He always had money, you know, he never spent it. He was pretty tight.   So then one particular instance, I was in the train station in Santa Aria, California, and Oswald comes in, on a Friday night.  I usually make it every Friday night to Los Angeles and spend the weekend. And he is on the same platform, so we talked, and he told me he had to see some people in Los Angeles. I didn't bother questioning him.   We rode into Los Angeles, nothing eventful happened, just small chatter, and once we got to Los Angeles I went my way and he went his.   I came to find out later on he had come back Saturday.  He didn't stay like we did, you know, come back Sunday night, the last train.  Very seldom did he go out.   At one time he went with us down to Tijuana, Mexico. 

There is, of course, more.  But for now this should hold back the tide.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Sandy Larsen]

6 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Mr. LIEBELER - What did you just say? 
Mr. DELGADO - He always had money, you know, he never spent it. He was pretty tight.

So we have testimony that Oswald was a tightwad. Not the sort of guy who would spend $1000 (today's dollars) to stay one night in a hotel.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Paul Trejo]

35 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

So we have testimony that Oswald was a tightwad. Not the sort of guy who would spend $1000 (today's dollars) to stay one night in a hotel.

Sandy,

Yes, but as I am trying to show (from WC testimony) LHO was not an average person.  It is possible that LHO did save all his money -- for himself.   Also, LHO had become accustomed to living in lavish hotels, from 1945 to 1949.   It is possible that he wanted to taste that life one more time.

According to one scenario, LHO gave his mother $100, and then took $1,500 to Europe from Texas (and this is like $15,000 today).   LHO was finally free for the first time in his entire life.  The giddiness went to his head.  He splurged (on himself) and stayed one night only in a lavish hotel, to wipe off the stench of poverty from his former life in Texas.

Even a miser will spend money sometimes -- on himself.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 23, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

Trejo sitting with his back to the mirror:

 I only add that none of us is qualified to just make stuff up in order to fill the void.

 

Like Robert and Marguerite saying something they did not say?

This will be it for me and good ole PT.  I agree with Tom Scully that he is a xxxxx.  I leave it up to the mods to see if they agree with me.

[Paul Trejo]

To continue to claim that Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA Agent is backward.   The Lopez Report (2003) shattered any such illusions.  

Bill Simpich's free eBook, State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City (2014) went even deeper to demonstrate how clueless the CIA was.

It should be clear that people who cling to the 1990's, and continue to repeat the old, boring CTKA and Probe Magazine dogma, are living in the past.

It is to Jeff Caufield's credit in his landmark book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015), that he highlights the first person in history to publicly name General Walker as the mastermind of the JFK conspiracy, namely, Harry Dean (1965, The Joe Pyne Show)..  

Jack Ruby himself named General Walker to Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren while he was sitting in a Dallas jail cell.

General Walker and the Radical Right, through select members of the Dallas police and sheriff's office, had the most direct access to the crime  scene, the witnesses, the evidence and the manipulation of it all.

James Hosty knew very well that Robert Alan Surrey (working in the living room of General Walker) designed and published those famous handbills that read, WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK.

Anybody who doubts this hasn't really read the Warren Commission testimony of Robert Alan Surrey.

The CIA rogues involved in the JFK assassination played second string at best.  The JFK murder was a Dallas plot.  This is what future historians will say, IMHO.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 26, 2016 by Paul Trejo
date

[Paul Trejo]

Harry Dean told me that his personal experience harmonizes with Sylvia Dean's WC testimony.  I find him believable, and so does Jeff Caufield.

Harry Dean, formerly a member of Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement, became a volunteer source of data for the FBI.  Castro had switched sides on him, according to Harry.   Another person in that milieu was Loran Hall, who had fought alongside Larry Howard, Gerry Patrick Hemming and Che Guevara, to bring down Batista.  But when Fidel Castro switched sides, Loran Hall ended up in a Cuban jail cell.

(Harry Dean provided me with a tape recording of Loran Hall's fund-raising speech, telling of his time in Cuba, and I posted it to YouTube, where it can be found today, courtesy of Harry Dean.)

Harry Dean met Loran and Larry Howard in Southern California, in the context of the John Birch Society and the Minutemen.  Their common friend was WW2 war hero Guy Gabaldon, also known as "Gabby," who had attempted to start his own Cuba Raid squad there in Southern California, but RFK shut him down, and he was bitter about it.

Harry Dean remembers that he and Gabby would collect paramilitary supplies from well-heeled members of the John Birch Society in Southern California, to supply secret Cuba Raid groups in New Orleans and Miami, including Gerry Patrick Hemming's INTERPEN, and Loran Hall's LA SAMBRA, among others.  Loran Hall used the war name, "Lorenzo," while Larry Howard used the war name, "Alonzo."

One day, says Harry Dean, after loading up his trailer with paramilitary supplies to drive from Southern California to New Orleans, Gabby gave Loran Hall an extra wad of cash.  This was to be used to drive Lee Harvey Oswald from New Orleans to Mexico City.

I believe Harry's account, and so does Jeff Caufield.

At this point in his life, LHO had accumulated an informal resumé of newspaper clippings which showed that he was known in New Orleans as an officer of the FPCC, a group beloved by Fidel Castro.  It included news events of a street fight with Carlos Bringuier, his arrest, a radio spot, and a TV program.  (The Lopez Report of 2003 reveals the full contents of this informal resumé.)   This resumé was a big fake, of course, because LHO was really working for Guy Banister and the Radical Right.

Now, it was not planned, but on the way to Mexico City, Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Lee Harvey Oswald stopped at the home of Sylvia Odio in Dallas.  Loran and Larry pretended to be with the Cuban resistance group, JURE, to which Sylvia's father and mother also belonged.  Sylvia suspected something fishy.  (Loran introduced Lee as "Leon" because in Spanish there is no such name as "Lee", but "Leon" is a common name.)

Loran tried hard to sell "Leon" to Sylvia Odio as a possible asset for JURE.  (Evidently they were seeking an alternative way to sneak LHO into Cuba, in case the Embassies in Mexico City did not fall for his resumé.)  Sylvia was just turned off by the hard sell.  She wrote to her father, who wrote back to her to stay away from these guys.  (This is part of US history now.)

In any case, Sylvia Odio remembers that the men used "war names" to introduce themselves to her.  This was common among the Cuban Expatriates in the USA.  One used a war name that started with "L" and the other started with "A".

Harry Dean remains convinced that this was Lorenzo and Alonzo along with "Leon" at Sylvia's doorstep on 9/25/1963.

All of this supports a Walker-did-it CT, as described in Jeff Caufield's superb book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).

CIA-did-it writers are irrationally jealous of this book, because it shatters their CT so thoroughly.

Fast forward to the end of Caufield's book.  To tie up loose ends, Caufield draws in the 1973 theory of LAPD officer, Gareth (Gary) Wean, who said that in a meeting with US Senator John Tower, Audey Murphy and Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker, Gary heard Senator Tower confess that the JFK assassination was started by General Walker, but only as a "false flag" conspiracy, that was, a "shoot to miss" conspiracy.  

Without going into further details, I would emphasize here that US Senator John Tower (according to Wean) named General Walker at the center of the JFK assassination.  I take this as one of the most important clues in US History.

I wish that Jeff Caufield had taken a more circumspect attitude toward Gary Wean's "false flag" report.  It is not needed to complete the case against the Radical Right in the JFK assassination.  Caufield offered plenty of new FOIA releases of FBI and CIA documents to make a solid case against Joseph Milteer, General Walker and the Radical Right.

So, despite minor errors here and there, the great achievement of Jeff Caufield -- which annihilates the CIA-did-it CT -- is that General Walker and the Radical Right must be our prime suspects for the JFK assassination.

By the way, for those who don't know much about Harry Dean (a simple sailor who was never in the FBI or the CIA, despite ridiculous rumors from CIA-did-it CT writers) here is the punchline: 

Harry Dean says that only days before he and Gabby sent forth Loran and Larry to New Orleans, they also had a meeting with select members of the Radical Right there in Southern California.  The leader of that meeting was General Walker, who at that meeting directly named Lee Harvey Oswald as his Patsy -- and Harry Dean has been telling this story publicly since January 1965, beginning with the Joe Pyne Show in Southern California.  

Harry Dean still offers his own self-published manuscript, "Crosstrails" to interested readers.  Harry Dean is still a member of this FORUM.

HAPPY NEW YEAR,
--Paul Trejo

Edited January 2, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos