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Mark, I certainly see your point and I'm not sure what is to be gained here given how much was lost yesterday - that will become clear soon enough.  But for reference to the JFK assassination I would pick this as an example of how powerful "denial" can be and how much it overrides information. There was a tremendous amount of information in the media in regard to Trump's moral issues, his business failures, et al.  However the people I know either didn't see it because they did not want to or entered a state of denial where it just did not matter to them.  I don't pretend that this is an enjoyable lesson but I think it illustrates that no matter how many facts we assemble, no matter how logical or even how loud we might be - our message is not going to penetrate those who are in denial for whatever reason, they simply will refuse to engage with it.

To me that means there is no reason to beat ourselves up - same as with the presidential race. It is what it is.  In my state, with the lowest teacher salaries in the nation, just about the worst rankings in education and massive teacher flight to surrounding states - and where the legislature has totally failed to provide any relief at all - the public voted down a one cent sales tax to boost teacher salaries, still leaving them one of the lowest in the nation.  Now my state can vote in larger sales taxes for professional sports complexes and other business opportunities but hey - the point being is that all those who supported the sales tax are now beating themselves up for their failure.  They didn't give enough facts, it wasn't positioned correctly. Which is sad, they did everything and more but they hit a wall of public denial.

So is this thread relevant to the JFK assassination, perhaps a little.  I just wish it were surprising...that would be easier to take.

 

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On 09/11/2016 at 1:38 AM, David Von Pein said:

It's absolutely incredible. I, too, am stunned. Maybe it's all a dream. Somebody pinch me. It's a new low for America. I'm thinking about packing up and moving to Canada. :(

Now, the question is, will Donald Trump's swelled head even fit through the Oval Office door? I'm doubting it will.

So much for Trump's constant refrain about the election being "rigged", eh?

:(:(:(:(

To make people feel a little better, you can always listen to a real President anytime you want to, right here:

http://JFK-Press-Conferences.blogspot.com

 

I guess I could always fix up my woodworking shop and put a couple of bunks out there, too.

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A real Presidential debate between a pair of perfect gentlemen, just in case we've forgotten what a real debate sounds like.

 

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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Here, here, Robert. To me the real scary thing, as a Canadian outsider looking in, is just what is Donald Trump? He is certainly not a religious person, but is he a religious zealot? He was willing to lie down with religious zealots; is he a racist/bigot? He was willing to lie down with racist's/bigots [KKK]. And perhaps of importance, of those who surround him, and those who will approach him as potential political aides, who won't he listen to?

FWIW

Gary

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I think this election result was more about a backlash against economic globalism that moved good jobs overseas without compunction or compensation, than it was about the politics of hate. We've always had the haters. I agree with Cliff that allowing the travesty of 1963 to go unsolved and unpunished, for which the media is to blame, is where this really begins. 

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Joseph McBride wrote on Facebook today:

When Ron Rosenbaum interviewed the dauntless smalltown Texas
newspaper editor Penn Jones Jr. in 1983 for a Texas
Monthly article on Kennedy assassination researchers, he asked
Penn about the powers behind the assassination: "Why the military? Because they thought he'd withdraw from Vietnam? Or --"
Penn replied, "xxxx, no. So they could take OVER." Many people are still in denial about what happened. Maybe now they will understand better what happens when a democracy is overthrown.

 

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From the article: But this rabbit hole doesn’t end here, because after Sherman brought down some corrupt judges in Chicago, he was suddenly being fed all sorts of sensitive intel and was soon surrounded by various intel ops. A stranger offered him a packet of info on a black secret service agent in Chicago who thwarted an assassination attempt on JFK in that city prior to the successful one in Dallas. After receiving the documents, Skolnick went to visit the agent, who erupted. “You are here to put me back in prison! I’m on parole! You’re part of a government effort to put me back!”

Skolnick responded, “I think Mark Lane didn’t do right for you when you were down there in Springfield, Missouri. I think all your lawyers put together have not done right for you. I am here to clear you.”

“Like hell you are. You got my secret report. It’s not supposed to be out until 2039. You got it. You stole it. And I’m going to be blamed that I gave it to you and I’m going to be sent back to jail and you are going to get publicity and I am going to get jail.”

JFK researcher Harold Weisberg accused Skolnick of blowing his research into this case and the details of this Chicago assassination plot were not confirmed in the mainstream media until 2007, 44 years after the fact, when a Chicago policeman spilled the beans.

https://stevenhager420.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/the-mysterious-ralph-nader/

 

---------------------------------------------------------

Steven Hager wrote on Facebook today, Nov 9, 2016:  A month or so ago, Ralph Nader blasted the idea he threw the election to Bush and he encouraged everyone to support third party candidates. I had an old friend defriend me for writing this blog. But I have to ask the Nader fans, how's that advice playing for you now?

 

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The Fall of America – Bitter Tale to Tell

 

‘…same electric lightning south

follows this train

Apocalypse prophesied­ –

the Fall of America

signalled from Heaven –‘

– Allen Ginsberg

Back in 1965-1971, when Allen Ginsberg wrote the poems that made up the collection entitled The Fall of America that was published in 1972, he was referring to that time as the autumn of the republic.

 

Things have changed, however, as the latest Nobel laureate in literature told us two decades ago, and I believe that now is the winter of America (as would Ginsberg were he still alive).

 

America has fallen as surely as the leaves from the trees.

The republic is dead. All that remains is disposing of the carcass to the highest bidder. Negotiations have already started.

Turn around,

Go back down,

Back the way you came,

Can't you see that flash of fire ten times brighter than the day?

And behold a mighty city broken in the dust again,

Oh God, Pride of Man, broken in the dust again.

                                                            – Hamilton Camp

 

The Founding Fathers’ great experiment has foundered on the rocks of greed, power, and arrogance. We thought we were special, exceptional, and chosen as a people. God had spoken to us   and our destiny was manifestSadly, we turned out to be just like everyone else in this world.

This morning as we awoke from our long sleep we expected the nightmare of the previous evening to dissipate. To our horror, it was no dream. It was real, and it wasn’t going away anytime soon – if ever. In that moment of naked lunch, we became scared to the bone – for our children, our grandchildren, our country, our planet, and ourselves.

Yesterday’s step toward national oblivion should have come as no surprise to those who post and converse here. After all, we have dedicated our lives to studying that moment in Dallas in November 1963 when the rot entered the system and the cancer began to grow in the body politic.

The last person who thought he was the president – the real president – was violently taken away from us by the people who took over our nation for their own benefit. To most eyes, the system seemed to function as it was intended to. Democracy had been preserved. That was the important thing.

Candidates ran for office. Elections were held as they always had. And the winners took office and worked for their constituents. America was different; it was no banana republic.

Something didn’t seem right, however, and the whole mess began to smell like Hamlet’s Denmark. It soon became clear to some that although we had retained the forms of democracy, the substance had been lost. Our leaders, it seemed, had learned a lesson that the Russians hadn’t and that was: you can give the people all the rights you want, but if they have no power what can they do?

I wonder who they are

The men who really run this land

And I wonder why they run it

With such a thoughtless hand

Today, the cancer has metastasized to incredible proportions and the nation is on life support. Don’t believe me just look around.

                                 Nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide

                                  Got nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide.

So what are we to do? Your answer is up to you. Whatever you choose to do, though, take time to remember a less cynical world when a president could be taken at his word when he told his audience:

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'" 

He made good on his word for almost a thousand days. We can only wait and see whom Trump serves

 .

Me? I’m going to follow the advice of that Nobel laureate again

 

so go joshua

go fit your battle

i have t' go t' the woods

for a while

i hope you understand

but if you don't

it doesn't matter

i will be with you

nex' time around

don't think about me

i'll be ok

While I’m in the woods, I’ll strap myself to a tree with roots

 

Sincerely,

 

Me

 

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Words of great wisdom by Garrison Keillor:

Done. Over. He’s Here. Goodbye.

So he won. The nation takes a deep breath. Raw ego and proud illiteracy have won out and a severely learning-disabled man with a real character problem will be president. We are so exhausted from thinking about this election, millions of people will take up leaf-raking and garage cleaning with intense pleasure. We liberal elitists are wrecks. The Trumpers had a whale of a good time, waving their signs, jeering at the media, beating up protesters, chanting “Lock her up” -- we elitists just stood and clapped. Nobody chanted “Stronger Together.” It just doesn’t chant.

The Trumpers never expected their guy to actually win the thing, and that’s their problem now. They only wanted to whoop and yell, boo at the H-word, wear profane T-shirts, maybe grab a crotch or two, jump in the RV with a couple six-packs and go out and shoot some spotted owls. It was pleasure enough for them just to know that they were driving us wild with dismay -- by “us,” I mean librarians, children’s authors, yoga practitioners, Unitarians, birdwatchers, people who make their own pasta, opera goers, the grammar police, people who keep books on their shelves, that bunch. The Trumpers exulted in knowing we were tearing our hair out. They had our number, like a bratty kid who knows exactly how to make you grit your teeth and froth at the mouth.

Alas for the Trump voters, the disasters he will bring on this country will fall more heavily on them than anyone else. The uneducated white males who elected him are the vulnerable ones and they will not like what happens next.

To all the patronizing b.s. we’ve read about Trump expressing the white working class’ displacement and loss of the American Dream, I say, “Feh!” -- go put your head under cold water. Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity. America is still the land where the waitress’ kids can grow up to become physicists and novelists and pediatricians, but it helps a lot if the waitress and her husband encourage good habits and the ambition to use your God-given talents and the kids aren’t plugged into electronics day and night. Whooping it up for the candidate of cruelty and ignorance does less than nothing for your kids.

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, travelling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids and we Democrats can go for a long brisk walk and smell the roses.

I like Republicans. I used to spend Sunday afternoons with a bunch of them, drinking Scotch and soda and trying to care about NFL football. It was fun. I tried to think like them. (Life is what you make it. People are people. When the going gets tough, tough noogies.) But I came back to liberal elitism.

Don’t be cruel. Elvis said it and it’s true. We all experienced cruelty back in our playground days, boys who beat up on the timid, girls who made fun of the homely and naive, and most of us, to our shame, went along with it, afraid to defend the victims lest we become one of them. But by your 20s, you should be done with cruelty. Mr. Trump was the cruelest candidate since George Wallace. How he won on fear and bile is for political pathologists to study. The country is already tired of his noise, even his own voters. He is likely to become the most intensely disliked president since Hoover. His children will carry the burden of his name. He will never be happy in his own skin. But the damage he will do to our country ---- who knows? His supporters voted for change, and boy, are they going to get it.

Back to real life. I went up to my hometown the other day and ran into my gym teacher, Stan Nelson, looking good at 96. He commanded a landing craft at Normandy on June 6, 1944, and never said a word about it back then, just made us do chin-ups whether we wanted to or not. I saw my biology teacher Lyle Bradley, a Marine pilot in the Korean War, still going birdwatching in his 90s. I was not a good student then, but I am studying both of them now. They have seen it all and are still optimistic. The past year of politics has taught us absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. The future is scary Let the uneducated have their day. I am now going to pay more attention to teachers.

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Very good post from Keillor Douglas, thanks! In reference to the JFK assassination, the up side of this is that the powers that be managed to close what happened to JFK down and render it over and done within 72 hours - then one and all moved into denial. 

At the same time Johnson managed to move aggressively and eliminate a very serious threat including criminal charges which was coming to a head in Congress.

Mr. Trump's story is just beginning and will continue to be there for all, including his supporters, to see.  We need to closely watch how long they can remain in denial...first up, a little matter of a court date over charges of fraud.

Edited by Larry Hancock

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I think discussing what Comey did is relevant to the JFK discussion here. Among other things, it shows that when you allow one thing to happen, there is no reason another of its kind wont follow.

 

 

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"Alas for the Trump voters, the disasters he will bring on this country will fall more heavily on them than anyone else. The uneducated white males who elected him are the vulnerable ones and they will not like what happens next." - Garrison Keillor

Yep, it was them uneducated white males (and their womenfolk) what done it. Hillary pegged 'em right as a basket of deplorables. What she didn't figure on was that them deplorables would go out and vote in droves. That just ain't right.

Down with democracy! 

As for the JFK assassination, this thread is certainly relevant. Weren't Lee Harvey Oswald an uneducated white male?

 

 

 

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I just have to respond to Ron - unless I misread the popular vote totals, if you actually tallied the "droves" on pure head count Clinton would be President elect.

But more seriously I think Peter has brought up a relevant point, we know that the WC did not trust the FBI and bemoaned relying on them for investigative research, we know that they felt Hoover would willingly withhold information from them - yet they forged ahead and rendered an opinion with virtually no investigative resources of their own and a staff that was not composed of criminal investigators or even legal professionals. They were pushing the FBI on evidentiary issues right up to the issuance of their report and even up to that point we know that FBI HQ was spinning the information being provided to them, the Odio inquiry being an example where the field offices were saying one thing and HQ another.

In the JFK case the FBI was literally assigned to the WC, rather than acting under the Justice Dept as it would in a Federal crime investigation and prosecution; if you look at the MLK case you find the same thing with lots of documents showing that the FBI blindsided Justice and forced them out of what should have legally been a Federal crime investigation. And in 2016 we have the FBI Director bypassing Justice, even worse rejecting Justice legal opinions, violating all existing protocols about investigations in process and going directly to Congress. There seems to be a real pattern of the FBI being used as a tool by its own Directors - is that really the case, how do the Directors get away with it and do they have some motive other than purely individual career/political interests?

 

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