Ron Bulman Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Ron, That's not a Dallas Police Inventory. It's not a Dallas Police Report. It's not a Dallas Police ANYTHING. All you've done is to give us Buddy Walther's WC testimony from 7/23/1964. I thought you were going to produce a Dallas Police Report from 11/22/1963, telling of "six or seven metal filing cabinets full of the names of Cuban Communists!" OK, OK, well, let's look at this 1964 WC testimony then. Here is Walthers telling WC attorney Liebeler about the Dallas Police search of Ruth Paine's garage: Mr. WALTHERS: ...Then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. MR. LIEBELER: About how many of them would you think there were? MR., WALTHERS: There were six or seven, I believe... So, OK, how did we get from "little metal file cabinets" in his actual WC testimony, to "metal file cabinets" in the 50-year RUMOR that y'all keep spreading? You showed pictures of metal filing cabinets from eBay or some such up above -- and we all know what a metal file cabinet looks like. You need a TRUCK to move it. But what is a ""little metal file cabinet"?? Doesn't this simply show that Buddy Walthers was playing fast and loose with the English language? He used the word "CABINET" when he should have used the word "FOLDER". You can still buy metal folders today, by the way. Some have a movable single handle on the top, too. They can hold 100 pages or so. In fact, Buddy Walthers was shuffling his linguistic feet here. He admits they were "little" but he insists on calling them "cabinets". He knew damn well that "CABINET" was a weasel word. He thought he got away with it. But I had to go back to Webster's Dictionary (1828) to justify Buddy Walther's usage of the phrase, "little metal filing cabinets". Here it is: CABINET, n. 1. A closet; a small room, or retired apartment. 2. A private room, in which consultations are held. 3. The select or secret council of a prince or executive government; so called from the apartment in which it was originally held. 4. A piece of furniture, consisting of a chest or box, with drawers and doors. A private box.5. Any close place where things of value are deposited for safe keeping. 6. A hut; a cottage; a small house. CABINET, v.t. To enclose. So, there we are -- if we use Webster's Dictionary (1828) and use definition #5, we can justify Buddy Walthers so that he can't be convicted of perjury. But get with the program, Ron! Where is the Dallas Police REPORT by Buddy Walthers from 11/22/1963 that you promised to show us? Regards, --Paul Trejo Get with the program??? What program paul? Are you a paid member of Operation Mockingbird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 There was no report for the Dallas Police Department Because Walthers was a Sheriff's Deputy for Sheriff Decker. Walthers took them to the DPD. They then disappeared. End of story. Until they appeared in the Warren OOOmisssion, where they disappeared again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Exactly - ya gotta wonder what program Paul T is referring to? not sure what one calls the kind of argument that Trejo is engaging in here, but its both misleading and very crude. Suddenly sworn testimony,something Paul relies on heavily in the case of Marina, is worthless because there is no police report to back up the testimony. Suddenly the Dallas Police, whose infamy is such a known part of history and of his theory, couldn't possibly have disappeared evidence. I need to add here that for some reason whenever this subject of files at the Paine's comes up it's always presumed that they are of pro Castro communists, and belong to Ruth, and Ruth defenders like Paul T can't abide it. Yet there is little to go on to back that up. Might as well be files of anti Castro Cubans (lots of them around) belonging to Oswald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Quote by Paul T. "OK, OK, well, let's look at this 1964 WC testimony then. Here is Walthers telling WC attorney Liebeler about the Dallas Police search of Ruth Paine's garage: Mr. WALTHERS: ...Then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. MR. LIEBELER: About how many of them would you think there were? MR., WALTHERS: There were six or seven, I believe... So, OK, how did we get from "little metal file cabinets" in his actual WC testimony, to "metal file cabinets" in the 50-year RUMOR that y'all keep spreading? You showed pictures of metal filing cabinets from eBay or some such up above -- and we all know what a metal file cabinet looks like. You need a TRUCK to move it. But what is a ""little metal file cabinet"?? Doesn't this simply show that Buddy Walthers was playing fast and loose with the English language? He used the word "CABINET" when he should have used the word "FOLDER". You can still buy metal folders today, by the way. Some have a movable single handle on the top, too. They can hold 100 pages or so. " Not so Paul. Not all metal file cabinets need a truck to move them. Have a look at this offer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RED-Metal-Oxford-Hanging-File-Folder-Storage-Box-Cabinet-Case-WITH-KEY-/253065995201 Most metal card filing cabinets are portable. 4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said: Not so Paul. Not all metal file cabinets need a truck to move them. Have a look at this offer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RED-Metal-Oxford-Hanging-File-Folder-Storage-Box-Cabinet-Case-WITH-KEY-/253065995201 Most metal card filing cabinets are portable. I just now realized that Walther didn't say they were big enough to hold a SINGLE Manila folder. He was referring to the height and width, not depth. Thanks for the pic Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Jason Ward said: THE CUBANS COULDN'T EVEN KILL CASTRO - no way in hell they or they paymasters could or would kill Kennedy. The whole Cuban angle is a waste of time. The Cubans by the mid-60s are completely rejected by the CIA et al. for being incompetent blowhards who talk big but never get past drunken "training camps" in the Keys and New Orleans. The Cubans loved Kennedy - both the exile community in the US and those stuck under Castro. There might be a few Cubans on a low operational level in Dallas, but they're strategically irrelevant and play no role in motivating the killers of Kennedy. Jason Jason, This is a beautiful summary of the fundamental weakness of the Cubans-did-it CT in the JFK assassination. All best, --Paul Edited November 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: There was no report for the Dallas Police Department Because Walthers was a Sheriff's Deputy for Sheriff Decker. Walthers took them to the DPD. They then disappeared. End of story. Until they appeared in the Warren OOOmisssion, where they disappeared again. Ron, So, was there any report from the Dallas Sheriff's Office? ANY REPORT? ANYTHING AT ALL? ONE TINY SCRAP OF PAPER? In short, do you have ANYTHING to support this nonsense rumor about "six or seven Metal Filing Cabinets" at Ruth Paine's garage allegedly missing, except for RUMORS made famous in the 1990's by Probe Magazine nonsense? ANYTHING AT ALL? Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Cory Santos said: I think you missed the point on this. But the question for Paul is still there. Cory, Two things. I hope Jason doesn't mind that I'm answering for him. 1. You asked what Jason meant when he said that Jack Ruby gave his opinion about the JFK assassins. In his WC testimony, in response to questions asked by US Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren, our boy Jack Ruby named General Walker and the John Birch Society in Dallas in connection with the JFK assassination. This is a long-overlooked historical fact. 2. As for the question about the "six or seven metal filing cabinets" reported by Buddy Walthers -- my debate with Paul B and Ron comes down to this -- Buddy Walthers was NOT HONEST. 2.1. I have been asking Paul B., and Ron to supply one SHRED of documentary evidence that there ever EXISTED these "six or seven metal filing cabinets" allegedly filled with the names of Castro supporters, there in Ruth Paine's garage. We only get the sound of crickets. 2.2. The insider conspirator didn't "hide" the alleged cabinets -- the insider conspirator LIED about the cabinets in the first place. That's my CT on this. Best regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said: I just now realized that Walther didn't say they were big enough to hold a SINGLE Manila folder. He was referring to the height and width, not depth. Thanks for the pic Ray. Paul B., As I've already said -- the Dallas Police Inventory DOES contain references to several Grey Metal Boxes containing pages written in Russian. These included the high school and college papers written by Ruth Paine. She had some Russian pen-pals in high-school, and she took Russian language courses in college. Ruth Paine also had some Russian Folk Song records in some of these Grey Metal Boxes. For Buddy Walthers -- that was all he needed -- she was a COMMUNIST! LOCK HER UP! That is likely his motivation for EXAGGERATING the facts and boasting loudly that he had found in Ruth Paine's garage "six or seven metal FILING CABINETS FULL" of the names of Castro Supporters. It doesn't take long to Google the RUMOR. Here's what our SPARTACUS site says about the matter, under the heading, "Buddy Walthers." Walthers took part in the search of the home of Ruth Paine. Walthers told Eric Tagg that they "found six or seven metal filing cabinets full of letters, maps, records and index cards with names of pro-Castro sympathizers." James DiEugenio has argued that this "cinches the case that the Paines were domestic surveillance agents in the Cold War against communism." We now see one of the key sources of this urban myth. Anyway, it's impossible to find the actual Sheriff's Report about the "FILING CABINETS" for the simple reason that THESE ARTIFACTS NEVER EXISTED. So, just admit it. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Paul B., As I've already said -- the Dallas Police Inventory DOES contain references to several Grey Metal Boxes containing pages written in Russian. These included the high school and college papers written by Ruth Paine. She had some Russian pen-pals in high-school, and she took Russian language courses in college. Ruth Paine also had some Russian Folk Song records in some of these Grey Metal Boxes. For Buddy Walthers -- that was all he needed -- she was a COMMUNIST! LOCK HER UP! That is likely his motivation for EXAGGERATING the facts and boasting loudly that he had found in Ruth Paine's garage "six or seven metal FILING CABINETS FULL" of the names of Castro Supporters. It doesn't take long to Google the RUMOR. Here's what our SPARTACUS site says about the matter, under the heading, "Buddy Walthers." Walthers took part in the search of the home of Ruth Paine. Walthers told Eric Tagg that they "found six or seven metal filing cabinets full of letters, maps, records and index cards with names of pro-Castro sympathizers." James DiEugenio has argued that this "cinches the case that the Paines were domestic surveillance agents in the Cold War against communism." We now see one of the key sources of this urban myth. Anyway, it's impossible to find the actual Sheriff's Report about the "FILING CABINETS" for the simple reason that THESE ARTIFACTS NEVER EXISTED. So, just admit it. Regards, --Paul Trejo Why do you keep repeating the lie that Walthers said under oath to the WC that the files he found were of Castro sympathizers? Who is Eric Tagg? A WC lawyer? Fellow cop? The main thing you are avoiding is that the cabinets were found, whatever was in them, but never put into evidence. You're not taking the position they didn't exist. So where are the boxes? Edited November 10, 2017 by Paul Brancato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: Why do you keep repeating the lie that Walthers said under oath to the WC that the files he found were of Castro sympathizers? Who is Eric Tagg? A WC lawyer? Fellow cop? The main thing you are avoiding is that the cabinets were found, whatever was in them, but never put into evidence. You're not taking the position they didn't exist. So where are the boxes? Paul B., You're confused now. It is YOUR side that was arguing for the legitimacy of "six or seven metal filing cabinets full of letters, maps, records and index cards with names of pro-Castro sympathizers." I am saying that this has always been a CIA-did-it RUMOR! The Dallas Deputies and Police found these little metal carrying cases -- and they WERE put into EVIDENCE, and they DO EXIST in the Dallas Police INVENTORY. People can access them publicly through any ordinary FOIA request. And I have always laughed at the CIA-did-it CTer community for continuing to believe that these of "six or seven metal filing cabinets" have gone missing! As for Eric Tagg -- look him up yourself. I'm tired of doing all the real digging in this debate. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Funny ha ha. My 'side' is a figment of your imagination. CIA did it group you keep referencing does not exist. What does exist is the willingness of important researchers to see the possible involvement of CIA officers like Harvey, Morales, Hunt, Phillips as being within the CIA chain of command, highly compartmentalized as it is, and not just as 'rogue' operators, which is as far as your patriotic mind can take it. It's the files of these men that are still hidden from us to the tune of thousands of pages. If they went off the reservation there is no reason to hide that fact. It's much more likely, as anyone can see, that the secrecy surrounding their files is precisely because they were not off the reservation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Let the record show that those who wished to defend Deputy Buddy Walthers on this thread were UNABLE to produce one single document from any source whatsoever to support the RUMOR that ANYBODY ever "found six or seven metal filing cabinets full of letters, maps, records and index cards with names of pro-Castro sympathizers" in Ruth Paine's garage. As for attacking people personally, or accusing individuals of working for the CIA because they mock the backward CIA-did-it CT, I will not stoop to that level. To the objective reader, it should be clear that I won this part of the debate, hands down. METAL FILING CABINETS BULLS*T! Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Cory, Two things. I hope Jason doesn't mind that I'm answering for him. 1. You asked what Jason meant when he said that Jack Ruby gave his opinion about the JFK assassins. In his WC testimony, in response to questions asked by US Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren, our boy Jack Ruby named General Walker and the John Birch Society in Dallas in connection with the JFK assassination. This is a long-overlooked historical fact. 2. As for the question about the "six or seven metal filing cabinets" reported by Buddy Walthers -- my debate with Paul B and Ron comes down to this -- Buddy Walthers was NOT HONEST. 2.1. I have been asking Paul B., and Ron to supply one SHRED of documentary evidence that there ever EXISTED these "six or seven metal filing cabinets" allegedly filled with the names of Castro supporters, there in Ruth Paine's garage. We only get the sound of crickets. 2.2. The insider conspirator didn't "hide" the alleged cabinets -- the insider conspirator LIED about the cabinets in the first place. That's my CT on this. Best regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, I did not see it. Can you provide the exact quote Ruby allegedly made? Or show where in the testimony it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Cory, Two things. I hope Jason doesn't mind that I'm answering for him. 1. You asked what Jason meant when he said that Jack Ruby gave his opinion about the JFK assassins. In his WC testimony, in response to questions asked by US Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren, our boy Jack Ruby named General Walker and the John Birch Society in Dallas in connection with the JFK assassination. This is a long-overlooked historical fact. 2. As for the question about the "six or seven metal filing cabinets" reported by Buddy Walthers -- my debate with Paul B and Ron comes down to this -- Buddy Walthers was NOT HONEST. 2.1. I have been asking Paul B., and Ron to supply one SHRED of documentary evidence that there ever EXISTED these "six or seven metal filing cabinets" allegedly filled with the names of Castro supporters, there in Ruth Paine's garage. We only get the sound of crickets. 2.2. The insider conspirator didn't "hide" the alleged cabinets -- the insider conspirator LIED about the cabinets in the first place. That's my CT on this. Best regards, --Paul Trejo Why lie about cabinets that dont exist? How does that do anything? What evidence do you have that the guy lied other than the alleged lack of a document confirming the existence of the cabinets? Edited November 10, 2017 by Cory Santos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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