The Tippit Case in the New Millenium

[James DiEugenio]

Gene:

1.Were there two jackets?  One that Reynolds found and one that Westbrook found?  Or are they the same jacket?

2. Joe:  I guess I underestimated the time you spent on the book.  By about 11 years.  But that is what it takes sometimes for these things.  Especially on a book that is kind of unique.

3.  As for DVP, these guys really hate being called out on their absurdity.  I don't blame them.  The whole ostensible reason d'être for the apprehension of Oswald was the Brewer/Postal infraction of sneaking into a movie theater without paying. Prior to pointing out Oswald, Brewer told McDonald about this guy who had not paid for his ticket.  (WR, p. 178)  What else could have been the reason at that moment in time? 

If we get away from the fantasy land of the Warren Commission, there are some interesting elements to the alleged Brewer/Postal infraction and Oswald's arrest. There has always been a question about what Postal saw, if she saw anything. (Armstrong, Harvey and Lee, p. 859)  And there is also the problem of Burroughs saying that Oswald arrived at the theater much earlier than the WC would have it. (McBride, p. 520)  When Brewer checked with Burroughs, he said that he saw no one. (WCE 2003)

Its true that when Postal called the police she said the guy was acting suspicious, but the point is, its an open question whether or not she ever saw LHO in the first place. According to his FBI statement of 3/2/64,  it was Brewer who asked her to make the call.  We are all aware I think of what happened when Jones Harris asked her if Oswald had bought the ticket. She got extremely upset and started to weep. When Harris asked her later again, the same thing happened.

What makes that even more interesting is that Postal heard the cops say, as Oswald was led out, "We have our man on both counts." The FBI report of an interview with her adds, "This was the first time that she had heard of Tippit's death, and one of the officers identified the man they arrested by calling out his name "Oswald". (FBI report of 2/29/64 by Arthur Carter.)

To me, those last two statements by Postal would appear to be indicative of what McBride wrote about in his book and which I extracted for my article. Namely that a certain part of the police force knew about Oswald very early.  I mean, how on earth at that point in time could you think that Oswald was guilty of both murders?  But, even worse, how did they know it was Oswald?  The official story has the wallet being taken from him on the car ride to the station.  The only way I can see this happening is if the guy who made the comment about "Oswald" by name was Westbrook, since he had the wallet at 10th and Patton.

 

[Gene Kelly]

Jim

There were confusing accounts of both the color and size of what came to be CE-162. The references to the jacket that assassination weekend - including the DPD radio transmission announcing its discovery - called it white.  CE 162, the garment given the Warren Commission is officially a "gray zipper jacket." Researcher Larry Ray Harris stated:

"I have held this jacket at the National Archives and it is gray; conceivably someone might call it 'light gray', but no one - least of all trained policemen - would call it white or even off-white."

A white jacket, apparently discarded by the Tippit shooter, was found on a nearby parking lot by a policeman (interestingly, a fourth Oswald wallet was alleged to have been found in the discarded jacket). But a gray jacket was later turned over to the Warren Commission and bore a laundry tag that indicates it was sold at the Philadelphia Strawbridge & Clothier store (a store that I visited many times in my youth).  What follows below is from a November 2008 EF posting by Jack White, who quoted from "The Other Murder - The Death of Officer Tippit Revisited" by Larry Ray Harris. Reports detailing interrogations of Oswald do not mention a jacket; nothing in the official record indicates he was questioned about or confronted with the white jacket by his hosts (as he was confronted with the infamous 'backyard photos' of himself holding a rifle). Only one of six witnesses shown the gray CE 162 stated positively it was the one worn by Tippit's killer; their descriptions of the gunman's jacket varied, and in several instances were significantly inconsistent with the Commission garment. Oswald's landlady could not identify CE 162 as the one he was wearing when he left his room around 1pm.  A commercial laundry tag stapled in the jacket was never traced to Oswald. Unpublished FBI reports disclose an investigation requested by the Warren Commission in which all dry-cleaning firms in the Dallas/Fort Worth and New Orleans areas were contacted, without identifying the one which laundered the garment. The Warren report didn't mention the laundry tag or the unsuccessful effort to trace it.  In retrospect, there appears no credible evidence that CE 162 either belonged to Oswald or was abandoned by him near Tenth & Patton.

Police allegedly found a white jacket laying on a parking lot behind a nearby gas station. The jacket eventually turned over by police to the FBI and Warren Commission was gray. Captain Westbrook is credited with finding Oswald’s questionable Jacket ... yet he cannot remember the name of the officer who pointed the jacket out to him, nor do his initials appear on the jacket. But Westbrook later testified he didn't find it, and there is no report from the "unknown" officer who called the dispatcher to report this discovery. When interviewed in 1978, this officer responded tersely (when asked the color of the jacket):

"That information might be something they don't want given out."

Any serious consideration of the origins and provenance of the jacket lead quickly to Captain William Westbrook and Sargent Gerald Hill, who appear to be controlling the post-assassination evidence closely and ensuring the incrimination of Oswald (very quickly) in the immediate 90 minutes after the murder.  Hill (and friends) appear to be planting evidence along the path from the rooming house to the Texas Theatre, and Westbrook is conveniently stumbling over it all the way, up until Harvey’s capture.  The Warren Report stated that this jacket (Commission Exhibit 162) belonged to Oswald and was discarded by him as he fled the scene of Tippit's death.  However, CE 162 was size 'medium', but all of Oswald's other clothing was size 'small'. Dallas Police bragged all weekend about each new development - however circumstantial or tentative - in the case against Oswald. But they were strangely silent about the jacket, nor is it mentioned anywhere in the many police reports published in the WC’s appendices.  

Gene

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Gene Kelly

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

There has always been a question about what Postal saw, if she saw anything. (Armstrong, Harvey and Lee, p. 859) 

Jim, Jim, Jim,

 

You're just like everyone else. You get so caught up in the minutiae, that you miss the real point.

 

The real point is that Postal saw Oswald sneak into the box office, and didn't do anything about it.

The box office... isn't that where they keep the money?

 

Mr. BALL. When you say worked in the box office, is that take tickets?
Mrs. POSTAL. Sell tickets.

Mr. BALL. What was the price of admission?
Mrs. POSTAL. We had three. Adults 90 cents, teenager with a card is 50 cents, and a child is 35, and you have a pass ticket.

Mr. BALL. And after you saw the police car go west with its siren on, why at the time the police car went west with its siren on, did you see the man that ducked? This man that you were----
Mrs. POSTAL. This man, yes; he ducked into the box office...

 

I know. I know. I'm being facetious.

*smile*

 

Steve Thomas

[James DiEugenio]

So, was he there to rob the place?

At least that would have been a more serious charge than sneaking in.

Edited May 6, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Gene:

That is really interesting about the jacket.  I knew that the provenance behind the jacket was very questionable, but I agree with Larry Harris, how could anyone mistake those two jackets for each other?

And BTW, by talking to John Armstrong, he agrees that Westbrook had something to do with planting the jacket.

[Steve Thomas]

5 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

So, was he there to rob the place?

At least that would have been a more serious charge than sneaking in.

Jim,

 

Yep. I'm sure of it. He gave all his money to Marina remember?

 

Steve Thomas

[Paul Brancato]

Westbrook and Hill. I cannot find anything worth noting in their backgrounds or connections, other than Westbrook later serving ‘police’ Duties in Vietnam, which is interesting in itself. The question I wish I could answer is were these two cops (plainclothes) performing duties assigned to them before the assassination, and if so by whom. Isn’t that where inquiry should lead us? Were they also reserve military intelligence? Affiliated with Walker and Minutemen? What’s their backstory?

[Gene Kelly]

Good posts, and excellent dialogue:

1. First, I don't recall who, but they pointed out that an extreme police response was prompted by something that was inverse to its level (i.e. a report that someone entered the Theatre without paying).   her reason for the DPD response at that juncture.   Quite interesting.
2. Second, William Westbrook and Gerald HiIl are guilty as sin ... sorry to be judge/jury here, but their background, behavior and influence are way too sinister
3. Third, Ms. Postal was caught in between a rock and a hard spot ... she witnessed the duplicity firs-hand and was likely fearful about it her entire life.   
4. Last, the chain of custody for that jacket (alone) makes the Tippit story incredulous, and is very sloppy/loose ... it would be thrown out of court in a fair trial. It also allegedly had a 4th wallet in it (which may have been placed by Warren Reynolds)  

Gene

PS. my favorite word in the language is 'facetious'

[Paul Brancato]

5 minutes ago, Gene Kelly said:

Good posts, and excellent dialogue:

1. First, I don't recall who, but they pointed out that an extreme police response was prompted by something that was inverse to its level (i.e. a report that someone entered the Theatre without paying).   her reason for the DPD response at that juncture.   Quite interesting.
2. Second, William Westbrook and Gerald HiIl are guilty as sin ... sorry to be judge/jury here, but their background, behavior and influence are way too sinister
3. Third, Ms. Postal was caught in between a rock and a hard spot ... she witnessed the duplicity firs-hand and was likely fearful about it her entire life.   
4. Last, the chain of custody for that jacket (alone) makes the Tippit story incredulous, and is very sloppy/loose ... it would be thrown out of court in a fair trial. It also allegedly had a 4th wallet in it (which may have been placed by Warren Reynolds)  

Gene

PS. my favorite word in the language is 'facetious'

Gene - where can I find info on their backgrounds?

[Mark Knight]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

 

Yep. I'm sure of it. He gave all his money to Marina remember?

 

Steve Thomas

So how did he pay the cab driver?

[David Von Pein]

5 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

So how did he pay the cab driver?

And the bus ride? And the Coke?

Edited May 6, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Mark Knight]

Just now, David Von Pein said:

And the bus ride? And the Coke?

Exactly.

Wow. You and I are in agreement once more. How well do you like extra crispy and potato wedges? (Might make it 3 times....)

[David Von Pein]

3 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

Exactly.

Wow. You and I are in agreement once more.

But in order to be totally fair to Mr. Steve Thomas with regard to his previous post when he said that Lee Oswald "gave all his money to Marina", perhaps we should cut Steve some slack and assume that Steve probably wasn't talking about every last coin that Lee had in his pants pockets on 11/22/63. Steve could have just been referring to "folding" currency. But, of course, even if that's what he was referring to, he would still be wrong, because Oswald did not leave behind all of his paper money on the dresser at Ruth Paine's house on November 22nd either. He still had $13 on him at the time of his arrest.

Speaking of the topic of "Oswald's Cash On Hand On 11/22/63".....

I've always noticed that the Warren Commission overlooked one very small purchase that Lee Oswald made on Nov. 22 --- the Coke purchase from the Depository lunchroom. The WC, in its very detailed anaylsis of Oswald's finances in Appendix XIV of the Warren Report, failed to mention anything about Oswald's probable Coca-Cola purchase on 11/22/63.

It's possible, however, that Oswald didn't actually purchase the Coke at all. He could have possibly grabbed an open Coke bottle off of one of the tables inside the lunchroom just after his encounter with Marrion Baker and Roy Truly. But, IMO, the thing that suggests that Oswald probably did buy the Coke is the fact that there is testimony from Mrs. Robert Reid which indicates the Coke she saw Oswald holding was a "full" bottle of Coke [see 3 H 278], versus it being a "used" bottle left on a table by someone else.

So, if Oswald did, in fact, buy the Coca-Cola with his own money on Nov. 22, it means that Lee left the Paine house that morning with a total of $15.20 in his pockets. His expenditures on Nov. 22nd would have included the Coke (10 cents), the short bus ride on Cecil McWatters' bus (23 cents), and the ride to Oak Cliff in William Whaley's taxicab ($1.00, including the 5-cent tip).

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Some of my miscellanous thoughts....

Lee Harvey Oswald leaving behind the money and his ring doesn't PROVE he shot the President, of course. But the TOTALITY of unusual things he did on November 21st and 22nd certainly indicate that Friday, November 22, 1963, was not just an ordinary regular work day for Lee Harvey Oswald.

For example:

1.) Visiting his wife at Ruth Paine's house on a THURSDAY instead of his normal FRIDAY.

2.) Leaving Marina $170 and his wedding ring (in tandem) -- which left only approximately $15 in Lee's pockets when he left the Paine house on November 22 (and, remember, per Buell Wesley Frazier, Lee was not planning on returning to Irving on Friday night).

3.) Telling Marina to "take as much money as I [Marina] needed and to buy everything", which was highly unusual for the penny-pinching Mr. Oswald, according to his wife.

4.) Telling co-worker Buell Wesley Frazier he was going to Irving to get some curtain rods at the Paine house, which we know was a lie (based on the preponderance of evidence and testimony that proves it was a lie).

5.) Taking a large paper package into work with him on Nov. 22.

6.) Taking no lunch to work on Nov. 22, which was very unusual (per Buell Frazier's testimony).

And when we add in the evidence of Oswald's guilt that was discovered AFTER the assassination, then what do all of these things suggest--in combination with one another? Do they suggest the actions of an innocent patsy? Or do they suggest the actions of a person who had a one-man plan to murder the President?

Mr. Spence, your witness.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

.........

Edited May 7, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Bill Simpich]

Paul B. was asking about the background of Hill and Westbrook...

Jerry Hill worked at the personnel division. Neither Hill nor his boss Captain Pinky Westbrook had any business being involved in these homicide investigations. Their beat was internal affairs, employment applications, and the like. They knew more about the inside dirt at the Dallas Police Department than anyone else, and specifically the proclivities of the various officers. They knew who they could work with, and who to avoid.

Jerry Hill was transferred to assist Westbrook in the personnel division during October 1963.

Let me make a few quick points about what Hill and Westbrook did between 12:30-2 pm on 11/22...

Jerry Hill came up with the three hulls on the 6th floor, and waved out the window to the troops below.  The timing provided by William Allen of the Dallas Times Herald established that it was the eighth shot of his roll.  (see below).  Allen estimated the time of Hill's wave as 12:55, about fifteen minutes earlier than the official story.  Hill's arrival at the DPD was apparently at 12:51, according to a video of the scene (the original link is dead, looking for it...) The video shows that he left in Car No. 207, driven by Patrolman Jim Valentine.

If that is accurate, that would mean that Jerry got to the 6th floor in about 4 minutes or so.

In Hasan Yusuf's excellent research on this case, he recounts:  

Readers should keep in mind that according to Donald Willis, in two emails to researcher Tony Pitman, WFAA-TV cameraman Tom Alyea (who filmed DPD officers and Dallas county deputy Sheriffs as they searched the sixth floor of the TSBD) claimed that the spent shell casings were discovered at 12:55 pm... Partial confirmation for Alyea's claim comes from this list of photographs taken in Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination, in which it is stated that at approximately 12:55 pm, a photograph captured by William Allen of the Dallas Times Herald shows; "Sheriff [is] waving out of sixth floor window [of the TSBD] next to 'the' window."

If you agree with the general story that at about 1:00 pm Oswald enters his rooming house for a few minutes, it is worth noting that  Car 207 goes by Oswald's place and goes "tit tit", if she was right, that was at least Valentine.  CE 2249 shows that "a suggested lead" was to find out who was driving #207 in front of Oswald's home. Westbrook's response was to write in his report that 207 remained at the depository until 3:30 pm that day,.  Westbrook's claim should not be blindly accepted..   

Between 12:51-1:00 pm, Valentine or another officer had plenty of time to drive Car 207 across the Houston viaduct and reach Oswald's home.  Yusuf estimated that the drive was as short as 3 minutes if an officer going 60 mph across the viaduct.  9 minutes would have been no problem.

Westbrook wrote in another report dated 12/23/63 that he looked at all the forms and couldn't figure out which car came to LHO's rooming house on North Beckley that day.

By 1:25 or so both Hill and Westbrook where at the Tippit crime scene.  By 1:40, Westbrook had possession of a wallet supposedly found on the scene by Officer Kenneth Croy - according to FBI officer Bob Barrett, Westbrook told him that the wallet had both Oswald and Hidell's ID in it.

In the next thirty minutes, Hill came up with:

The custody of the hulls used to shoot Tippit;

The custody of the revolver supposedly used to shoot Tippit;

Lied - by his own admission 20 years later to Dale Myers - to the Warren Commission about a call to the dispatcher where he claimed the hulls were from an automatic rather than from a 38 special;

Lied - according to the FBI - with the claim that LHO fired the revolver while inside the Texas Theatre.

My evidence on these final points can be found in an article I wrote in 2015. here.

This is a great thread you all have going here - the work Joe McBride and others have done is stellar - it is going to take a small army to resolve all of these issues - don't let anyone disrupt this thread.