The Tippit Case in the New Millenium

[James DiEugenio]

Let  me add that I am gratified that my essay stirred up renewed interest in the Tippit case. Both here and at DPF.

 

At DPF, a guy named Milo Reech (don't know if that is his real name) has put forth two interesting theses.  

First, he does not think that Benavides was really the first person on the scene.  He says there are no first day reports from him that he can find.  And this is the real reason he was not taken to the lineups.

Second, he thinks that Tatum might be worse than that. He may not have been there.

BTW, does anyone know: Was there any word on the Tippit case from Tatum before the HSCA put out a net in Dallas to find more witnesses to that case?  As Milo points out, its odd that they could find Tatum but not Doris Holan, since Holan lived right across the street from the crime scene in 1963.

Edited May 5, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

At DPF, a guy named Milo Reech (don't know if that is his real name) has put forth two interesting theses.  

First, he does not think that Benavides was really the first person on the scene.  He says there are no first day reports from him that he can find.  And this is the real reason he was not taken to the lineups.

Jim,

 

I was trying to find out if the shells at the Tippit scene had any fingerprints on them. As near as I can tell, there weren't. Along the way, I learned a couple of things.

Neither Hill, nor Poe knew the name of the person who gave them the shells (which is astounding in its own right).

When Poe gave the shells to Pete Barnes from the Crime Lab, who was standing right there with a fingerprint dusting kit and actually using that kit to dust the car for prints, Barnes didn't dust the shells for prints.

Hill, Benevides and Callaway all describe a suspect who was in the 5'10" range weighing about 160-165 lbs.

 

Here's my notes, if you're interested.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm

 

Mr. BELIN - Then what happened? Did the officers ever get in touch with you?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer, and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time.

I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen,...
Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't.

 

Another FBI file from SA Joseph J. Loeffler to SAC (89-43) dated December 4, 1963.
https://books.google.com/books?id=IdnhAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT757&lpg=PT757&dq=%22Domingo+Benavides%22+CBS&source=bl&ots=eODtmXcfZ5&sig=FqLkfGuuiw6qUA5NRAnj1nJeifk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0trfvxfPYAhVD7IMKHX2PCoA4ChDoAQgpMAE#v=onepage&q=%22Domingo%20Benavides%22%20CBS&f=false

“4 empty hulls – 2 found by unidentified witness at the scene of the shooting of Tippit – 400 E. 10th St. and given to Officer, J.M. Poe. He has no recollection of who gave them to him.” The memo goes on to talk about the shells found by the Davis sisters.

 

Poe's after-action report dated 11/22/63
DPD Archives, Box 1, Folder# 4, Item# 5
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm
Poe wrote, "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls in an empty cigarette package and stated, "These were the bullets that killed the officer.". The bottom of the Report is marked “Pending”.

 

The only mention of Benavides in the DPD Archives Index is Report by James Leavelle.
DPD Archives Box 16, Folder# 12, Item# 6.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1617.htm

It's dated the 22nd, and it had to have been written up after 6:30PM, because he mentions the 6:30 lineup.
Leavelle wrote, "Another witness who saw the officer laying in the street, but did not see the suspect was a Domingo Benavides..."
Leavelle wrote that Benavides found two shells and turned them over to Poe, who in turn, turned them over to Pete Barnes, who "dusted the car for prints".

 

Leavelle says that Benevides did not see the suspect.

At the time Poe wrote his Report, Benavides was still unidentified. By 6:30, he is identified by name in Leavelle's Report. Benavides said that 2 officers came by (at Dootch Motors, I believe), at 4:00 and he told them what he had seen.

Why does the FBI Report filed by James Loeffler on December 4, 1963 says that it was an “unidentified witness” who gave Poe the shells, and that Poe “has no recollection of who gave them to him”?

 

Who were the two officers who came by to see Benevides? Where is their report?

 

Why did the police and the WC give so much more attention to Helen Markham than they did to Domingo Benavides? He was actually closer to the shooter than Markham was, wasn't he?

Is it because Benavides describes a shooter who looked different than Oswald?

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm

 

Mr. BELIN - I am between 5' 10" and 5' 11". Closer to 5' 11", I believe.

Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size,

Mr. BELIN - Was he average weight, slender, or heavy?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was average weight.
Mr. BELIN - What color hair did he have?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Oh, dark. I mean not dark.
Mr. BELIN - Black hair?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No. Not black or brown, just kind of a----
Mr. BELIN - You say he is my size, my weight, and my color hair?
Mr. BENAVIDES - He kind of looks like---well, his hair was a little bit curlier.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him that looked like me.
Mr. BENAVIDES - No. that is all.
Mr. BELIN - What about his skin? Was he fair complexioned or dark complexioned?
Mr. BENAVIDES - He wasn't dark.
Mr. BELIN - Average complexion?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; a little bit darker than average.
Of course he looked, his skin looked a little bit ruddier than mine.
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm

Gerald Hill:

The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, and brown bushy hair."

Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description?
Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name.

 

Mr. BELIN - When you put these two shells that you found in this cigarette package, what did you do with them?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I gave them to an officer.
Mr. BELIN - That came out to the scene shortly after?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember the name of the officer?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir; I didn't even ask him. I just told him that this was the shells that he had fired, and I handed them to him. Seemed like he was a young guy, maybe 24.

Poe's after-action report dated 11/22/63
DPD Archives, Box 1, Folder# 4, Item# 5
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm

Poe wrote, "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls in an empty cigarette package and stated, "These were the bullets that killed the officer.".

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/callaway1.htm

 

Mr. BALL. What kind--when you talked to the police officers before you saw this man, did you give them a description of the clothing he had on?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell them you saw?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told them he had some dark trousers and a light tannish gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair.
Mr. BALL. Tell them the size?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes; I told them--I think I told them about 5'10"--

 

Mr. BALL. Was he fat or thin?
Mr. CALLAWAY. He was just--
Mr. BALL. I mean the man you saw across the street?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Just a nice athletic type size boy, I mean. Neither fat nor thin.
Mr. BALL. What did you estimate his weight when you talked to the officer before the lineup?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told him it looked to me like around 160 pounds.

 

Mr. BELIN - Taking you back to November 22, 1963, anything unusual happen that day?
Mr. BENAVIDES - On the 22d?
Mr. BELIN - 22d of November 1963?
Mr. BENAVIDES - This would be embarrassing. Was that the day of the Assassination of the President?
Mr. BELIN - Yes.
Mr. BENAVIDES - I was thinking it was the 24th. Well, nothing except it seemed like a pretty nice day.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember what day of the week it was?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember the day that the President was assassinated?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember that he was assassinated in Dallas?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Oh, yes; I remember this.

 

Mr. BELIN - When the officers came out there, did you tell them what you had seen?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I left right after. I give the shells to the officer. I turned around and went back and we returned to work.

 

Who is we?

 

Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer, and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time.

I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen...

 

Who were these two officers, and where is their Report?

 

Callaway makes no mention of this 4:00 PM visit.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html

The only way a jury would have acquitted Oswald in the Tippit murder is if the entire jury was comprised of the "OJ Twelve" (the same dimwitted jury which let Simpson go free).

The evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder is so strong and foolproof, no sensible person would have any trouble at all convicting him.

1.) The many "It Was Oswald With A Gun" witnesses.

2.) The bullet shells.

3.) Joseph Nicol's testimony too (don't totally dismiss this).

4.) Oswald's incredibly incriminating statements made to Officer C.T. Walker in the police car.

5.) And the clincher--Oswald still had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM just half-an-hour after Tippit was killed.

Even with some anomalies and discrepancies in the timelines and the "Remington" vs. "Winchester" bullet shells, the totality of evidence hangs Oswald for Tippit's murder and always has. And anyone saying otherwise just flat-out does not want to face the reality that exists within that "totality" of evidence.

Edited May 5, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Steve Thomas]

18 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

4.) Oswald's incredibly incriminating statements made to Officer C.T. Walker in the police car.

David,

 

Why doesn't Walker say anything about in this in his after-action report?

DPD Archives. Box 2. Folder# 7, Item# 47, page 2.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

And why doesn't C.T. Lyon, who also was in the car say anything about this in his after-action report?

All Lyon wrote was that Oswald, "refused to answer any questions" and kept asking, "Why am I being arrested?" "I know I was carrying a gun, but why am I being arrested?
 

DPD Archives. Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 31

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

 

Steve Thomas

 

[David Von Pein]

11 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Why doesn't Walker say anything about in this in his after-action report?

[...]

And why doesn't C.T. [sic] Lyon, who also was in the car say anything about this in his after-action report?

Beats me. But it's probably because those reports are very short and brief synopses type reports. I wouldn't expect every single detail (and every word that came out of Oswald's mouth) to be printed up in such a brief overview.

Edited May 5, 2018 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

BTW Steve, that is a Bugliosi answer from DVP.

Often in RH, whenever Bugliosi had to refer to a day of report that did not have something incriminating about Oswald he would say, well, it was a brief report.

With DVP,  carrying a handgun in Texas is incriminating.

But, oh yes, not paying for a movie can get you indicted for two murders.

 

Excellent work Steve.  You have been spot on for the last several months.  One of the most valuable posters on this forum

[James DiEugenio]

But let me ask you Steve, do you think Benavides was the first witness there?

I mean there is only one first day report, by Leavelle, and it does not say he witnesses the shooting.

I guess one could conclude that he was so frightened he left the scene.  Is that what you think?

[Ron Bulman]

I don't know about the first witness there but Benavides is important.   He told police he couldn't identify the suspect on 11/22 and wasn't called in for the "showup".   But due to his proximity to Tippit's assassination the Warren Omission felt they had to interview him.  Then he told them "As I saw him, I really -- I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired, he had just turned. He was turning away..."  Then when pressed further for a description he tells Belin "He looked like you".  He didn't cave and identify the back side of a man he saw as Oswald in spite of reported threats.  That didn't happen until after his brother, who resembled him, was killed in a Dallas bar in February 1965.

[Ron Bulman]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html

The only way a jury would have acquitted Oswald in the Tippit murder is if the entire jury was comprised of the "OJ Twelve" (the same dimwitted jury which let Simpson go free).

The evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder is so strong and foolproof, no sensible person would have any trouble at all convicting him.

1.) The many "It Was Oswald With A Gun" witnesses.

2.) The bullet shells.

3.) Joseph Nicol's testimony too (don't totally dismiss this).

4.) Oswald's incredibly incriminating statements made to Officer C.T. Walker in the police car.

5.) And the clincher--Oswald still had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM just half-an-hour after Tippit was killed.

Even with some anomalies and discrepancies in the timelines and the "Remington" vs. "Winchester" bullet shells, the totality of evidence hangs Oswald for Tippit's murder and always has. And anyone saying otherwise just flat-out does not want to face the reality that exists within that "totality" of evidence.

Your probably right.  Oswald would have likely been railroaded by LBJ's idol worshiper DA Henry Wade, evidence or not.

 http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25917791/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/after-dallas-das-death-convictions-undone/#.Wu5pK0xFzIU

However, a competent attorney for Oswald would have hired a investigator and questioned more intensely than was done by anybody, Acquilla Clemmons,  Doris Holan,  Warrren Reynolds, Domingo Benavides,  as well as Sam Guinard, Frank Wright, and Virginia Davis.  

[Karl Kinaski]

Here is a gem of Wesley Liebelers avoiding-tactics, when interviewing Tippit Murder witness Warren Reynolds:

Quote, Warren Com. hearings: 

Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear? Mr.REYNOLDS. I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would say four or five or six. I just would have no idea. I heard one, and then I heard a succession of some more, and I didn't see the officer get shot. 
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand? 
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good. (The only logical question now would have been: Can you describe the man's face?, but ...)
Mr. LIEBELER. Subsequent to that time, you were questioned by the Dallas Police Department, were you not? 

Close quote

Here we a have a man who saw the face of the Tippit Killer very good, and wasn't asked to describe it ... 

🙉🙈🙊

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Karl Kinaski

[Ron Bulman]

22 minutes ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Here is a gem of Wesley Liebelers avoiding-tactics, when interviewing Tippit Murder witness Warren Reynolds:

Quote, Warren Com. hearings: 

Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear? Mr.REYNOLDS. I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would say four or five or six. I just would have no idea. I heard one, and then I heard a succession of some more, and I didn't see the officer get shot. 
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand? 
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good. (The only logical question now would have been: Can you describe the man's face?, but ...)
Mr. LIEBELER. Subsequent to that time, you were questioned by the Dallas Police Department, were you not? 

Close quote

Here we a have a man who saw the face of the Tippit Killer very good, and wasn't asked to describe it ... 

🙉🙈🙊

 

 

 

Maybe because after Reynolds was shot in the head by an unidentified man he finally I'd Oswald as the man he saw at the Tippit Assassination?

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Ron Bulman

[Steve Thomas]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

But let me ask you Steve, do you think Benavides was the first witness there?

 

I guess one could conclude that he was so frightened he left the scene.  Is that what you think?

Jim,

 

I don't know if he was the first or not. He told the WC that he was there as Tippit was being shot. Whether somebody else was also there while Tippit was being shot (Scoggins maybe?), I don't know.

 

As far as being "so frightened that he left the scene", I don't think so. He told the WC:

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES - At the time I walked out, I guess I was scared, so I started across the street--alley between the two houses to my mother's house, and I got in the yard and I said I'd better go back, or Just caught myself until I got over there, I guess, so I went back around there.
Mr. BELIN - When you went back, what did you do? First of all, was there anything up to that time that you saw there or that you did that you haven't related here that you can think of right now?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, I started--I seen him throw the shells and I started to stop and pick them up, and I thought I'd better not so when I came back, after I had gotten back, I picked up the shells.

 

Steve Thomas

[David Von Pein]

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

With DVP,  carrying a handgun in Texas is incriminating.

But, oh yes, not paying for a movie can get you indicted for two murders.

The above post by James DiEugenio is, of course, pure crap. Jim knows as well as I do that the fact that Oswald didn't pay for his cheap movie theater ticket had absolutely nothing to do with his eventual arrest. And as far as I am aware, there hasn't been a single "Lone Nutter" in the 54-year history of Lone Nutterism (including myself) who has ever once put forth the idea that Oswald's failure to pay for a movie ticket was the key factor in his eventual apprehension at the Texas Theater. That ridiculous myth has been sponsored solely by the conspiracy theorists and nobody else.

The fact is, of course, that the testimony of Julia Postal below is the key factor that prompted the Dallas Police to quickly respond to the Texas Theater, and it always has been the key factor, regardless of the "Didn't Buy A Ticket" smokescreen erected by conspiracy theorists (emphasis by DVP)....

"I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason." And he wanted to know why, and told him because every time the sirens go by, he would duck." -- Julia Postal

Edited May 6, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Joseph McBride]

Thanks, Jim DiEugenio, Robert Harper, and others for your good words about my work on

the Kennedy and Tippit cases. I spent thirty-one years on INTO THE NIGHTMARE,

although I did a lot else during that time. But I was always researching the book

and regard the assassination as my main interest in life, even though I've

spent much of my life writing books about film and spent eighteen years

writing film and TV scripts (the most satisfying were five American

film Institute Life Achievement Awards). The assassination has been my principal focus since the moment

it happened, and before -- I wrote a short story about it, "The Plot Against a Country,"

for my freshman English class at Marquette University High School in October 1961.

I've always had a book in the works since May 1963 and next month will publish my critical

study of the great German American director Ernst Lubitsch, HOW DID LUBITSCH DO IT?. That

Columbia University Press book has been in progress for nine years. I've just launched a website

for the book, http://howdidlubitschdoit.com. I always continue researching

the Kennedy and Tippit cases and value the work of Jim and others on this forum and other sites. 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Joseph McBride

[Gene Kelly]

Warren Reynolds had some interesting affiliations and friends.  In a June 2009 EF Thread by William Kelly, Reynolds did a lot more than just get a good look at the face of Tippit's killer(s).  Warren Reynolds said that he followed Oswald to the gas station and was there when the police arrived and searched the parking lot, finding a jacket, said to have been left by the fleeing Tippit murderer, under an Oldsmobile in the parking lot. But nobody bothered to check if this was the same car that Darrell Wayne Garner (who later allegedly shot Reynolds) tried to sell to Reynolds' brother without the papers. Reynolds said that he didn't know that he was chasing a cop killer until the police told him, or he wouldn't have been so brave, and that he thought the killer could still be hiding in the parking lot but the police got a call on their radio that a suspect was at the nearby library, and they all left the scene together, so he didn't stick around either. After being interviewed by TV and radio reporters, the Dallas police expressed no interest in talking with Reynolds about Tippit. Jim Garrison revealed some form of relationship by Reynolds with General Edwin Walker, and had this to say:

 Warren Reynolds in my judgment was part of a convoy. At least one of the men who shot Tippit merely ran around the block and back into the church and car 223 covers him. That’s kind of involved to get into but that’s one area we dug into a lot. As a matter of fact, the jacket which he dropped – he dropped just before he went into the church – and he’s probably protected by Captain Westbrook there. Wasn’t a patrol car there? He’s convoyed all the way around. He’s safe. But the jacket he dropped, leads straight to Los Angeles. Which is where Lockheed is and they never really checked out the jacket.  It was manufactured in Los Angeles, plus it’s got a laundry mark on it that’s identical to one from El Toro Marine Base.

Gene