Explain this and I'll take you more seriously

[Jeffrey Reilley]

On 12/25/2018 at 2:36 PM, Jake Hammond said:

That’s sort of what I was trying to say to Lance .... let’s reverse your logic . At what point do you think the WC/Bugliosi/ MSM story is imperfect in some minor way ? 

 Balls in your court . 

The bullet 399 killed it for me. Simply not possible, to me, that a bullet that travels through two people could stay in that shape. 

 

 

*edited part* I also believe that in 200 years, Allen Dulles will be considered one of the most vile individuals to ever walk this earth. I may be wrong, and maybe he was a heck of a guy, but everything in me screams "Worse than Hitler" when reading about him. If he was involved with the WC, I lose all faith. But that is purely personal belief, and because I am just a mere golf ball whacker guy, I allow myself to carry those beliefs as facts:)

Edited December 26, 2018 by Jeffrey Reilley

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Jeffrey Reilley said:

The bullet 399 killed it for me. Simply not possible, to me, that a bullet that travels through two people could stay in that shape. 

Intuitively, of course, I would agree with you.  You might want to watch a Carcano bullet penetrate 36" of pine boards and emerge in pristine condition:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=167&v=a-imJWUcMso.  There is another documentary where, as I recall, a Carcano bullet penetrated 42" into a solid pine log and was likewise in pristine condition when removed.

 

[Guest]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:36 PM, Jake Hammond said:

That’s sort of what I was trying to say to Lance .... let’s reverse your logic . At what point do you think the WC/Bugliosi/ MSM story is imperfect in some minor way ? 

If you can stomach it, read my recent thread on "Epistemology and the JFK Assassination."  I could believe the WC/Bugliosi "story" was imperfect in 100 ways and still believe that the Lone Assassin explanation is established beyond any reasonable doubt by a mountain of solid evidence and reasonable inferences.  This is the mistake intractable fundamentalists often make:  "The Bible is the 100% literal word of God, 100% inerrant in everything it says, whether theological, historical or scientific.  Show me the tiniest error and, well, hell, I'll be an atheist overnight!"  This is in fact almost precisely what happened to Bart Ehrman.  My provisional Lone Nut position is not this rigid or brittle.  I believe you have a complete misunderstanding as to how a belief system - and belief system - is constructed, and I decline to play these silly games.  If I decide the Lone Assassin explanation is so flawed that it must be discarded, I'll let you know.

[David Josephs]

11 minutes ago, Jeffrey Reilley said:

he bullet 399 killed it for me. Simply not possible, to me, that a bullet that travels through two people could stay in that shape.

or the fact this same bullet arrives at the FBI twice..  ???

Todd brings the Dallas bullet to Frasier at 7:30pm   Q1
Todd sees Rowley who gives him a bullet to bring to Frasier at 8:50pm

And if you look below, the FBI is waiting - during the autopsy - for yet

...the other [bullet] is lodged behind JFK's ear...
If the Secret Service has "one of the bullets that struck JFK" at 9:17pm in DC    AND
Q1 is received at 7:30pm from Todd   AND
Chief Rowley gives Todd a bullet at 8:50pm which is identified by Todd as the one gotten from Rowley (in essence Rowley handing this bullet to Todd remains the ONLY ACTUAL identified chain of evidence for any bullet.

How many CE399's does it take to screw in a light bulb?

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

How many CE399's does it take to screw in a light bulb?

The best quick analysis of conspiracy thinking that I recall:

Eyewitness 1 says the getaway car was dark blue.  Eyewitness 2 says black.  Eyewitness 3 says dark gray.  The culprits are apprehended in a dark blue car.  Conspiracy theorists:  You call this police work???  There are two carloads of culprits still at large in this obvious conspiracy!  What happened to the black car and the dark gray car - huh, huh, HUH???

In the conspiracy world, there are no honest mistakes, no bureaucratic bungling, no confusion - even in the chaos of a Presidential assassination.  Every discrepancy is sinister.

[Jeffrey Reilley]

4 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

If you can stomach it, read my recent thread on "Epistemology and the JFK Assassination."  I could believe the WC/Bugliosi "story" was imperfect in 100 ways and still believe that the Lone Assassin explanation is established beyond any reasonable doubt by a mountain of solid evidence and reasonable inferences.  This is the mistake intractable fundamentalists often make:  "The Bible is the 100% literal word of God, 100% inerrant in everything it says, whether theological, historical or scientific.  Show me the tiniest error and, well, hell, I'll be an atheist overnight!"  This is in fact almost precisely what happened to Bart Ehrman.  My provisional Lone Nut position is not this rigid or brittle.  I believe you have a complete misunderstanding as to how a belief system - and belief system - is constructed, and I decline to play these silly games.  If I decide the Lone Assassin explanation is so flawed that it must be discarded, I'll let you know.

Although, if there was one, just one, tiny piece of evidence that was tampered with, planted, witness forced to say anything, a person in position to mislead the investigation, or anything else inside the broad spectrum of “shady practices “, then I am going have to disagree with your statement.

If someone lies to me, I grow skeptical. If someone lies to me and then later in time I’ve caught them lying some more, I start to doubt everything. A slippery slope, not the sudden cliff the religious hardliners take 

[David Von Pein]

On 12/25/2018 at 8:57 AM, Adam Johnson said:

And now a question for David and Lance........ [...] ........Can you choose one fact/item/occurrence/person/piece of evidence that had created some doubt in your thinking that perhaps there was a conspiracy and Lee Harvey Oswald didn't commit this crime all alone???

Not really. All of the physical evidence and most of the circumstantial evidence points right at Lee Oswald and nobody else.

However, when it comes to the subject of those Parkland and Bethesda "Back Of The Head" witnesses....

"Those "BOH" witnesses do still bother me to a large degree. It's still the #1 "mystery" (in my mind) in the entire case. I still wonder how so many medical professionals could ALL get it totally wrong. But there is BETTER evidence that proves (beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO) that those "BOH wound" witnesses WERE, indeed, incorrect when they claimed the only large wound on the head of John F. Kennedy was located in the occipital area (far-right-rear) of his head. And that "better evidence" is the photographic record of JFK's head wounds, including the autopsy photos, the autopsy X-rays, and the Zapruder Film." -- DVP; May 21, 2009

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It's my #1 "mystery" in the whole case. Always has been. It's weird. It's incredible. It's inexplicable. But it happened. Dozens of trained medical professionals were wrong about the locality of JFK's large head wound. And the X-rays and photos prove they were wrong. Seemingly incredible? Yes. But true just the same. Can I fully explain why? No. Sure can't. But I give it a shot HERE and HERE." -- DVP; January 31, 2016

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Jake Hammond]

3 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Intuitively, of course, I would agree with you.  You might want to watch a Carcano bullet penetrate 36" of pine boards and emerge in pristine condition:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=167&v=a-imJWUcMso.  There is another documentary where, as I recall, a Carcano bullet penetrated 42" into a solid pine log and was likewise in pristine condition when removed.

 

Weren’t bullet fragments also taken from Connally though ? Can’t have both . 

[Jake Hammond]

3 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

If you can stomach it, read my recent thread on "Epistemology and the JFK Assassination."  I could believe the WC/Bugliosi "story" was imperfect in 100 ways and still believe that the Lone Assassin explanation is established beyond any reasonable doubt by a mountain of solid evidence and reasonable inferences.  This is the mistake intractable fundamentalists often make:  "The Bible is the 100% literal word of God, 100% inerrant in everything it says, whether theological, historical or scientific.  Show me the tiniest error and, well, hell, I'll be an atheist overnight!"  This is in fact almost precisely what happened to Bart Ehrman.  My provisional Lone Nut position is not this rigid or brittle.  I believe you have a complete misunderstanding as to how a belief system - and belief system - is constructed, and I decline to play these silly games.  If I decide the Lone Assassin explanation is so flawed that it must be discarded, I'll let you know.

Thanks . What I’m saying is, if I get specific you ridicule and call the evidence fake or crackpot. So I’m asking you what was incorrect about the investigation. Don’t call it silly , don’t call it a game, if you’re not a fundamentalist then talk to us about those hundred things , deviate from the MSM narrative .....

Edited December 27, 2018 by Jake Hammond

[Jake Hammond]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Not really. All of the physical evidence and most of the circumstantial evidence points right at Lee Oswald and nobody else.

However, when it comes to the subject of those Parkland and Bethesda "Back Of The Head" witnesses....

"Those "BOH" witnesses do still bother me to a large degree. It's still the #1 "mystery" (in my mind) in the entire case. I still wonder how so many medical professionals could ALL get it totally wrong. But there is BETTER evidence that proves (beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO) that those "BOH wound" witnesses WERE, indeed, incorrect when they claimed the only large wound on the head of John F. Kennedy was located in the occipital area (far-right-rear) of his head. And that "better evidence" is the photographic record of JFK's head wounds, including the autopsy photos, the autopsy X-rays, and the Zapruder Film." -- DVP; May 21, 2009

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It's my #1 "mystery" in the whole case. Always has been. It's weird. It's incredible. It's inexplicable. But it happened. Dozens of trained medical professionals were wrong about the locality of JFK's large head wound. And the X-rays and photos prove they were wrong. Seemingly incredible? Yes. But true just the same. Can I fully explain why? No. Sure can't. But I give it a shot HERE and HERE." -- DVP; January 31, 2016

 

Have you tried reconciling the evidence instead of writing them all of as crackpots ? Genuine question . 

I always understood the truth to be a law unto itself. Not ‘ the most likely’ , ‘ most common sense’ or most logical. If half of the doctors or more specifically describe something, which is also shown in the autopsy , would you not be best advised to reconcile rather than reject. ? 

[David Von Pein]

53 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

Have you tried reconciling the evidence instead of writing them all [off] as crackpots?

Please show me just ONE post that I have written where I refer to ANY of the Parkland/Bethesda "BOH Wound" witnesses as "crackpots".

You won't find such a post, of course, because I've never said any such thing.

Edited December 27, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Micah Mileto]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=295&tab=page

At 8:50 p.m., Mr. JAMES ROWLEY, Chief, United States Secret Service, gave to SA Elmer Lee Todd an envelope containing a bullet. This envelope and its contents were taken directly to the FBI Laboratory and delivered to SA ROBERT A. FRAZIER. The envelope was opened and initials of both SA TOSS and FRAZIER were etched on the nose of the bullet for identification purposes.

 

[Micah Mileto]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Please show me just ONE post that I have written where I refer to ANY of the Parkland/Bethesda "BOH Wound" witnesses as "crackpots".

You won't find such a post, of course, because I've never said any such thing.

What about calling McClelland a "nut" not too long ago?

[Micah Mileto]

6 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Not really. All of the physical evidence and most of the circumstantial evidence points right at Lee Oswald and nobody else.

However, when it comes to the subject of those Parkland and Bethesda "Back Of The Head" witnesses....

"Those "BOH" witnesses do still bother me to a large degree. It's still the #1 "mystery" (in my mind) in the entire case. I still wonder how so many medical professionals could ALL get it totally wrong. But there is BETTER evidence that proves (beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO) that those "BOH wound" witnesses WERE, indeed, incorrect when they claimed the only large wound on the head of John F. Kennedy was located in the occipital area (far-right-rear) of his head. And that "better evidence" is the photographic record of JFK's head wounds, including the autopsy photos, the autopsy X-rays, and the Zapruder Film." -- DVP; May 21, 2009

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It's my #1 "mystery" in the whole case. Always has been. It's weird. It's incredible. It's inexplicable. But it happened. Dozens of trained medical professionals were wrong about the locality of JFK's large head wound. And the X-rays and photos prove they were wrong. Seemingly incredible? Yes. But true just the same. Can I fully explain why? No. Sure can't. But I give it a shot HERE and HERE." -- DVP; January 31, 2016

 

What about EOP wound? All ten autopsy attendants who reported a small wound on the back of the head specified that it was in the lower head area. Humes, Boswell, Finck, Burkley, Stringer, Kellerman, Boyers, Lipsey, O'Neill, Robinson.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

 

Also, considering Dallas time was only one hour behind Bethesda time, what do you think is the significance of the time on this receipt?

 

The attached expended bullet was received by me about 5 min., prior to Mrs. Kennedy's departure from the hospital. It was found on one of the stretchers located in the emergency ward of the hospital. Also on this same stretcher was rubber gloves, a stethoscope and other doctors' paraphernalia. It could not be determined who had used this stretcher or if President Kennedy had occupied it. No further information was obtained.

Name of person from who I received this bullet:

Mr. O P Wright

Personnel Director of Security

Dallas County Hospital District

By

Richard E. Johnsen

Special Agent

7:30 p.m.

Nov. 22, 1963

 

WC H 18 p. 800: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=814&tab=page