Coincedence--or CONSPIRACY?

[Justin Martell]

You can add this one as well:

A month before Lincoln was assassinated he was in Monroe, Maryland.

A month before Kennedy was assassinated he was in Marilyn Monroe.

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That was a great one John, I am still laughing as I type this.

[Tim Gratz]

Justin, did you not read my post? A funny joke, but the dates do not work.

[Pat Speer]

Interesting posts. Never heard of Caster--he sounds worthy of investigation.

Re Truly. Do you think it was him responsible for the 12.45 broadcast of Oswald's description over the DPD network? I've read about a hasty roll call which uncovered LHO's absence but I've had doubts it occurred. Also, because many of the building's staff were scattered around the entrance and in DP, it would have been unlikely, IMO, to point conclusively at LHO in such short order. I listened to those tapes again the other day and at 12.54 the operator told Tippit to remain "at large" in the Oak Cliff area, presumably for any eventualities. Out of interest, does anyone happen to know the name of the police radio operator at the time? Is he alive?

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The so-called roll-call never really took place. While looking at the employees in the building it occurred to Truly that Oswald was missing, and he went up to the sixth floor to tell Fritz. I believe the rifle was found around that same time. So this was after one o'clock. My understanding is that the radio announcement came as a result of Brennan's talking to a DPD officer right after the shooting. Was it Harkness? While I know that efforts have been undertaken to debunk that Brennan was the source, I don't believe they've been successful. So the description sent out over the radio didn't exactly match Brennan's later descriptions? So what? Since when has Brennan's memory or the accuracy of the DPD been infallible? It's not as if the description sent out was incredibly specific to Oswald.

I believe many conspiracists make the error of excusing the inconsistent memories of people like Jean Hill and Beverly Oliver while finding the inconsistencies of men like Brennan highly suspicious.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Ron Ecker]

My understanding is that the radio announcement came as a result of Brennan's talking to a DPD officer right after the shooting.  Was it Harkness?  While I know that efforts have been undertaken to debunk that Brennan was the source, I don't believe they've been successful.

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The description was broadcast by Inspector of Police J. Herbert Sawyer, who said that he got it from a man who does not sound like Brennan, since Sawyer should have at least remembered the hard hat. Sawyer said, "I don't remember what he was wearing. I remember that he was a white man and that he wasn't young and he wasn't old. He was there. That is the only two things that I can remember about him."

Also, Sawyer said that he sent the man under escort to the Sheriff's Office. Since the man gave him the description before 12:45 pm, it must not have been Brennan, since Brennan was still there at the TSBD when Forrest Sorrels got back from Parkland.

Ron

[Mark Stapleton]

Ron, thanks for that. It's in Lane's "Rush to Judgement"--must have missed it. Sawyer's testimony is pathetic. A police inspector says he can't remember the person who gave him the description, just that he "was there". Ridiculous. Then Sawyer says he's never seen the man again. Therefore anyone can walk in off the street and say they witnessed a crime, supply a description and walk off never to be seen again. Dallas in '63 must have been paradise for ill-intentioned practical jokers.

Pat, don't you think it's a little odd that a near-perfect description of LHO was broadcast over the DPD radio at 12.45? That's 25 minutes or so before Tippit was shot. Remember, the reason LHO was arrested was for the murder of Tippit, not JFK. I don't believe Howard Brennan supplied the description either. Brennan's testimony to the WC is fantasy--he stated he saw LHO fire the final shot from the TSBD. He either lied or didn't care if the WC twisted his testimony beyond recognition.

[Pat Speer]

Ron, thanks for that. It's in Lane's "Rush to Judgement"--must have missed it. Sawyer's testimony is pathetic. A police inspector says he can't remember the person who gave him the description, just that he "was there". Ridiculous. Then Sawyer says he's never seen the man again. Therefore anyone can walk in off the street and say they witnessed a crime, supply a description and walk off never to be seen again. Dallas in '63 must have been paradise for ill-intentioned practical jokers. 

Pat, don't you think it's a little odd that a near-perfect description of LHO was broadcast over the DPD radio at 12.45? That's 25 minutes or so before Tippit was shot. Remember, the reason LHO was arrested was for the murder of Tippit, not JFK. I don't believe Howard Brennan supplied the description either. Brennan's testimony to the WC is fantasy--he stated he saw LHO fire the final shot from the TSBD. He either lied or didn't care if the WC twisted his testimony beyond recognition.

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That's right, it was Sawyer, not Harkness. As I remember, a lot of the confusion comes from Brennan's testifying that he gave the info to Sorrels, who went directly to Parkland and didn't arrive at the TSBD til after 1, long after the description was broadcast. It seems perfectly reasonable to assume Brennan just got confused over the names. Somewhere also I remember seeing a photo of Brennan talking to the police immediately after the shooting. The man really did see someone in that window. I do agree, however, that after being told that it was Oswald he saw, his memory gradually changed to make the shooter look more and more like Oswald. That's the way memory distortion works. If the police had told Brennan that Jack Ruby was standing next to Oswald during the shooting, he'd have gradually come to remember seeing that, too.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Ron Ecker]

2. When Marion Baker went into the TSBD, he was followed by Roy Truly, who led him to the elevators.  When both elevators were stopped at the 5th floor, the two men began to race up the stairs.  When they got to the fifth, they noticed that one of the elevators was gone, and took the other one to the seventh, whereby they gained access to the roof, where Baker thought a shot had been fired.  Thus, the sixth floor was the ONLY floor the two men did not take a quick look at.

Soon after this, Inspector of Police J. Herbert Sawyer arrived at the TSBD, having heard the DPD dispatches about the shooting on his radio. He testified that he and a couple of officers "and a man who I believed worked in the building" (Truly?) took an elevator up to the fifth floor. "We had talked about the fifth floor." They looked around on the fifth floor. When asked what he did then, Sawyer said, "Well, I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary, so I immediately came back downstairs to check the security of the building."

Yes, that sixth floor was definitely something to stay away from. Especially if Truly was tagging along to keep you away from it.

Ron

[Ron Ecker]

Okay, you want coincidence?

The wife of Warren Caster of the TSBD was named Ruthanna. She went with Caster to the TSBD on 11/23 to collect some paperwork.

One of the people on the TSBD sixth floor according to "The Men on the Sixth Floor" was an Hispanic named Ruth Ann. (I'm confused. Wouldn't an Hispanic be named Ruthanna and not the other way around? Was Caster's wife Hispanic?)

Now, the "director of interpretation" at the Sixth Floor Museum is named Ruth Ann Rugg.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/r...9-1c17rowe.html

Three Ruth Anns in the TSBD? Give me a break! (I have never met a woman named Ruth Ann in my life, nor heard of one till the first sixth-floor Ruth Ann.)

Trivia question: How many Ruth Anns would it take to fill up the TSBD?

Ron

[Christopher T. George]

Okay, you want coincidence?

The wife of Warren Caster of the TSBD was named Ruthanna. She went with Caster to the TSBD on 11/23 to collect some paperwork.

One of the people on the TSBD sixth floor according to "The Men on the Sixth Floor" was an Hispanic named Ruth Ann. (I'm confused. Wouldn't an Hispanic be named Ruthanna and not the other way around? Was Caster's wife Hispanic?)

Now, the "director of interpretation" at the Sixth Floor Museum is named Ruth Ann Rugg.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/r...9-1c17rowe.html

Three Ruth Anns in the TSBD? Give me a break! (I have never met a woman named Ruth Ann in my life, nor heard of one till the first sixth-floor Ruth Ann.)

Trivia question: How many Ruth Anns would it take to fill up the TSBD?

Ron

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Hi Ron

Ruth Ann does sound though like a Southern or Texas name even though they may not be common round your neck of the woods.

Chris

[James Richards]

Wasn't Ruth Ann an alias for Maria del Carmen?

James

[Ron Ecker]

James,

I don't have a copy of The Men on the Sixth Floor, and a quick Google turns up nothing on a Maria del Carmen related to the assassination. Who was she and what was her alleged role if there was one?

Ron

[Justin Martell]

Justin, did you not read my post?  A funny joke, but the dates do not work.

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Tim I have a funny feeling that John knew the dates didnt jive, I have a funny feeling you know that too. Its a joke and a damn good one.

[Jim Root]

Coincidence?

Just a few for fun.......

Both General Edwin Walker and Lee Harvey Oswald were traveling in Europe at the same time in October 1959. Lee Harvy Oswald's exact route to Helsinki from London remains a mystery till this day. At the time of the Warren Commission passenger lists would still have been available from this time period.

Although they had apparently never met, Edwin Walker received a letter from John J. McCloy five month before the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Cadet Edwin Walker was a student of Maxwell Taylor while at West Point. A quick review of Walker's military career shows that this relationship with Taylor was instrumental in both mens careers.

General Edwin Walker's "Pro Blue" program (that led to his resignation from the Army) began just days after the State Department's legal staff decided that Oswald would be allowed to return to the United States.

Chester Clifton, Jr. (Senior military aide to Pres. Kennedy and in the motorcade on Nov. 22nd) first commanding officier upon graduation from West Point was Edwin Walker.

Marshall Carter (Deputy Director of the CIA at the time of the assassination) was a West Point classmate of Edwin Walker (1931)

Edwin Walker would be rushed out of Hawaii (Schofield Barracks and the Fort Shafter listening post where Japanese messages were intercepted) just 32 days before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

In 1935 Walker would cross paths with John B. Hurt (Japanese linguist involved with breaking the Japanese Code during WWII). Hurt would remain an employee of the NSA until August 1963. Lee Harvy Oswald would fail in his attempt to contact a John Hurt after his arrest in Dallas.

At exactly 7:00 AM the morning following the assassination, Edwin Walker (while staying at a hotel in Shreveport, LA) would conduct a telephone interview with a German newspaper that would first print the strory stating that Lee Harvey Oswald had attempted to assassiante Walker.

Edwin Walker's personal papers are stored at the University of Texas. They are restricted from researchers with NO date stated for availability.

Jim Root

[Mark Stapleton]

Justin, did you not read my post?  A funny joke, but the dates do not work.

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Tim I have a funny feeling that John knew the dates didnt jive, I have a funny feeling you know that too. Its a joke and a damn good one.

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Justin,

I agree. It was funny. John's gags are improving.

[James Richards]

James,

I don't have a copy of The Men on the Sixth Floor, and a quick Google turns up nothing on a Maria del Carmen related to the assassination. Who was she and what was her alleged role if there was one?

Ron

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Hi Ron,

Del Carmen was a Cuban woman in her mid twenties who supposedly knew Richard Nagell in Mexico City. She held a job with the Mexican government - Treasury Department I believe but I may be wrong there.

Intelligence man Barney Hidalgo also knew Del Carmen and considered she was a member of the Communist Party in Mexico. I think he may also have thought she may have been an Agency mole into the Communist Party who also had connections into Cuban Intelligence.

Nagell did not think she was connected to the CIA but of course what else is he going to say? There was some speculation in Dick Russell's TMWKTM that in the late summer of 1963 in Mexico City, Del Carmen was at a meeting which also included Nagell and Oswald.

This is all going on memory but I believe Larry knows some more about this.

James