David Josephs
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Posts posted by David Josephs
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6 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
I want to see a document that is no longer accessible on the archives page, here:
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release?page=1066&sort=asc&order=NARA Release Date
I also tried to search "BLACKHURST" on The Black Vault and come-up with nothing.
53303 157-10008-10145 04/26/2018 Redact 03/18/1976
[PDF]PAPER-TEXTUAL DOCUMENT HON CHURCH, FRANK, CHAIRMAN BLACKHURST, STEVEN DOCUMENTS RE: FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE Here you go Mike....
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/157-10008-10145.pdf
The way you have it here - the doc ID is seen as a phone number....
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The special interest today, within the general field of Communist activity, is the field of Communist youth activity, and the committee will seek information particularly, from the witness today, about the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Our witness is Richard Gibson.
Senator Dodd. Raise your right hand.https://archive.org/stream/fairplayforcubac0102unit/fairplayforcubac0102unit_djvu.txt
https://ia802700.us.archive.org/16/items/fairplayforcubac0102unit/fairplayforcubac0102unit.pdf is the actual document in pdf form
HEARINGS BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE ADMINISTEATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY ACT AND OTHER INTERNALISECURITY LAWS OP THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION APRIL 29, MAY 5, OCTOBER 10, 1960 TOGETHER WITH HEARING HELD JANUARY 10, 1961
Mr. Sourwine. You have been a member of the India delegation to the United Nations?
Miss Grant. I would like to decline to answer that question on the following grounds: Lack of legislative purpose, lack of committee jurisdiction, lack of pertinency, and on the basis of my rights under the first amendment and on the basis of my rights and privileges under the fifth amendment.
Senator Dodd. Well, now, I would order you to answer except that you have claimed rights under the fifth amendment and the first FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 69 amendment. Do you actually feel that if you answered this question yes or no, you might incriminate yourself or degrade yourself?
Miss Grant. I have the same answer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Miss Grant, is it true that when you visited Moscow in 1957, you marched in the Lenin Stadium with the American Youth delegation, led by Jacob Rosen, who dipped the American flag to Khrushchev?
Miss Grant. I decline to answer on the grounds previously statedMr. S. Is not Mr. Rosen connected with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Gibson. On the basis of my rights under the first and fifth amendments, I must decline to answer.Criley does not appear in the text of these hearings... neither does Mr. Dean.
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She supposedly was there at the train station...
Since the diary is the source for this...(are there Intourist reports?) its very hard to say....
Golub is Helsinki Soviet Ambassador? Embassy
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This is the list... Yes, I think Otto was tasked with finding out the status from a military pov. The file gives a detailed account for each...
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1 hour ago, Robert Harper said:During JFK's presidency, no one ever spoke of the disagreement with Ben-Gurion about JFK's desire to limit Israeli nuclear production. When a whistleblower in Israel exposed the truth to the world in 1986, he was kidnapped by the Mossad and held in solitary confinement for 11 years. This wasn't spoken about. One hears of Snowden as a "traitor" and Ellsburg as a "traitor" because each placed - echoing the Nuremberg principles - his conscience above the dictates of government. When the fierce attacks on Richard Goldstone became unbearable for him, he wrote an Op-Ed piece distancing himself from what his own committee had produced. It didn't enhance his reputation as an honorable jurist, but no matter - that was enough for the US Senate to vote to reject the investigation's findings, and Goldstone was again allowed back into the tribe.Is this the sort of morality we want? If International law is ignored on this case, will it be ignored in other cases?Once Johnson became president, Israel developed the bomb without acknowledging it, and attacked the USS Liberty, killing 34 Americans while trying to create a "false flag" attack that would force the US into the War with Egypt. This became the only American attack of a ship never fully investigated by the US Navy. This was done by an ally.Why?
A nicely worded piece Robert... till I hit the nuke issue and that tired old cliche of the rift between these men...
.....
We've been down this road with that awful book and author...
Do a search please as I completely debunked this JFK/Ben-Gurion disagreement... The Israeli's went behind our backs as JFK was talking concern over proliferation to get help from the French.
On January 1, 1961 a full report on the history and status of the situation was presented to JFK...
JFK was more concerned with the ARABS taking up Nuclear arms in response to Israel, then on any disagreement with Gurion...
There was also something called the Sonneborn Group of wealthy American Jews who help finance things in Israel...
You think because Bloomfield is on the list... there is a direct line o the assassination?
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For Jason Ward....
Help me understand Jason... He used "education", a traveling student to get out of his Reserve duty and leave the country early...
One of the first things attributed to him once in RUSSIA, was the time it had been on his mind and the anguish when told he'd have to leave right away...
How does the Albert Schweitzer School play into this story when after the boat trip with an ARMY LT COL, we simply do not see Oswald giving it another thought? Not saying another word about ASC or even the fact the semester wont start for another 6 months... not mentioning the school in any of the letters we have in evidence.... along with Mack Osborne telling us that Oswald told him he was not accepted...
(I know it's unpopular... but Harvey and Lee may come into play here... the guy on the trip over MAY have been the man in the passport photo and not our little Lee. Our Oswald could just as easily travel on military transport while LEE sets down some mysterious journey... just a thought, yet as you apply the facts to the potential solution... things do fit)
Can you explain to me how the school and its religious affiliations have anything to do with what actually happens regarding the defection?
Thanks in advance for your consideration Jason... as for MH - he's on my ignore list... only so much GIGO I can take.
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"I have waited for 2 year to be accepted."
Balding stout, black suit fairly.
good English, askes what do I want?, I say Soviee citizenship, he ask why
I give vauge answers about "Great Soviet Union" He tells me "USSR only
great in Literature wants me to go back home" I am stunned I reiterate,
he says he shall check and let me know weather my visa will be (extended
it exipiers today) Eve. 6 .00 Revive word from police official . I must leave
country tonight at. 8 .00 as visa expire . I am shocked!! My dreams!
I retire to my room. I have $100 . left. I have waited for 2 year to be
accepted. My fondes (sic) dreams are shattered because of a petty official ; because
of bad planning I planned to much! 7 .00 P.M. I decide to end it -
On 2/25/2018 at 11:06 PM, Steve Thomas said:
Colonel George B. Church, Jr. (spent 16 days at sea with Oswald in 1959)
Why is it that the purser and the Captain of a ship with only 4 passengers cannot say a single thing about our man Oswald or any of the other passengers? Especially since they ate in the officer's mess...
Could CHURCH have somehow been involved in overseeing things? Just a thought.
That ACSI, above, is defector related is an important lead... I'd think.
Does this sound like our little Oswald?
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There are no stamps in the 1959 passport book for MOSCOW since Oswald entered Russia at Vyborg via Vainikkala...
Vyborg has a USSR Embassy which stamps the passport OCTOBER 15, 1959. It is a 1 hour train ride from HELSINKI to VYBORG.
But it's only a 7 hour ride from Vyborg to Moscow...
He arrives in Moscow on Oct 16th according to the completely discredited "diary"... by train and he meets Rimma from Intourist...
What I am having trouble reconciling is the passing of a day for a total 8 hour train trip.... It's still, or already Oct 15th in Vyborg...
Why does it take a full day to travel 7 hours? There is no indication he took the night train...
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It seemed as if I had known that but couldn't find reference on the forum...
Thanks...
I always thought that most Embassy personnel overseas was Intel related....
I mean who goes to work for the CIA for 11 months and quits?
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While the CIA denies that OSWALD spoke to CIA agents at the US Embassy in Moscow...
He obviously did... and was handled by SNYDER in a manner to NOT allow him to defect... officially.
Strangely though, after reading about the time and effort in the late 40's (and again in 1970) to work for the CIA, he supposedly only works from Sept 59 thru Oct 60.
R i c h a rd Snyder was the Department of State consular officer on duty at the A m e r i c a n Embassy in Moscow when Lee Harvey Oswald appeared at the embassy to announce his defection on October 31, 1959. Though Snyder had briefly worked for the CIA in 1949 and 1950, the Review Board staff could locate no evidence in CIA files that he still had any connection to the CIA at the time of Oswald’s defection. CIA processed its 201 re c o rd on Snyder as part of the sequestered collection. The Review Board staff examined Snyder’s Office of Personnel file, but did not designate any records as assassination records https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/review-board/report/arrb-final-report.pdf p112
Do employees really ever LEAVE the CIA??
I'd imagine that the KGB was more interested in SNYDER to defect than to accept what Oswald was doing....
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What you fail to see Mr. H is...
Here, you are what you post/create/write. If not here, then post a link to where it's been done...
In the 300 opportunities you've offered little if anything but disdain for this forum and the inability to listen to those who have just a bit more credibility than you when relating seemingly unrelated events.
You come here posting as if no one in 50 years has given this any thought....
And then you post, proving you've not read anything about the case in those 50 years....Yet you so need to be taken seriously you scream at everyone else for not understanding poor little you...
Newsflash Merv... you're not saying anything we've not already heard... whereas EVERYTHING we post appears to be news to you... news you refuse to either consider or understand...
So back the #$%^ off already.... You've not earned the right to abuse the core community as you do... that we continue toi even bother addressing you is a miracle and a shame... I for one am done.
bu-bye now...
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As long as you remember to give credit, if used, where credit is due.
btw, you do not have to QUOTE the entire post to write a single line.... the waste of bandwidth is as crazy as the room it takes up on screen and on disc...
My post is just above.... a little forum etiquette and consideration of others Mervyn... give it a try
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2 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:
It is my understanding David, that the moderators only wade in when attacks on members of this Forum by members of this Forum become personal. How do you justify your comment above? Mervyn
It's called.... telling the truth and staying true to one's convictions...
We had a man a while back who freely admitted to not giving a care at all to the JFK case... like you he only looked for reactions and for what he could TAKE from the group... all the while setting fires as he went.
Discussing the religious aspects of a "cover story" without having the first clue of what's being "covered up" (or even the humility to learn) just shows how little you not only care for the knowledge necessary to have a decent discussion on the topic, but your disdain for the realities of the JFK assassination make having ANY discussion with you pointless....
Dulles used religion as a cover.... Examples can easily be found....
An ex-director of the school explains the origins and associations and you STILL refuse to pull head out of sand...
I have no worries over being moderated for dealing with the likes of you.... it's closed minded sycophants as yourself who make this place so much more difficult to enjoy than it should be...
Your efforts here do not go unnoticed...
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deleted...
too obvious - you aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know...
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2 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:
Clearly the majority do not agree with me. Fair enough, that is your right. Consequently my impression of this Forum has been confirmed. There is some good material, here and there, but by and large it is a waste of time. So I need to start skimming for the useful exhibits and ignoring the banal commentaries. I won't be responding to any more of this jing-jang banter. Mervyn
Agree with you?
You offer nothing but questions without answers, and then get indignant when shown how far from an accurate analysis you've strayed...
What I fail to understand is how the moderators allow a sycophant like yourself to remain spewing this garbage.
PLEASE don't respond to any "jing-jang" In fact, why not just toddle off and try to convince some other forum of your bona fides...
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Mervyn....
Your use of language is really quite offensive
40 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:I understand your fixation.
What is further puzzling remains your inability to answer a simple question or acknowledge the shallowness of your knowledge base here...
It's truly as if you've never heard of the creation of the OSS, FBI's SIS, ONI, MID, MIA, ACSI and on and on...
So it remains your contention that this pseudo radar operator (An aircraft MAINTENANCE man is not a radar operator Mervyn) after returning from Atsugi ( a CIA U-2 base) and a stint in the Philippines, decides to unilaterally apply for a spot at a liberal arts, and music college to study philosophy in March/April 1960... 6 months after he is discharged on a faked bereavement discharge... he never went to help his mother... but to leave 6 months early for a school he never officially gets accepted to...
So since you are the NEWSPAPER AD specialist... please post the ad Oswald would have used to acquire the applications he sent to Rhode Island... the ad that you keep posting has an address in NYC... please show us an ad or ANYTHING with the good reverend's address in RI... or at least show us when he contacted the address in this ad and had them send "details and info"
This is now called EVIDENCE MH... This is the statement of Mack Osborne... "Turned down" ??
But you can show us the ASC letter of acceptance.... right Mervyn?
On March 28, 1959 ASC replies... no acceptance, just sending the correct forms to RESUBMIT his application to both RI and ASC...
You're aware those things are never done... the original 3/4/59 dated application, and the undated yet signed bottom portion of the ASC-received application... Yet somehow between March 28 and June 19 Oswald is made aware of his acceptance....
Really?
How does Oswald know he's been accepted by June 19? Especially in light of Osborne's ELY INTERVIEW which states he was told by Ozzie that he wasn't "excepted" (sic)...
Yet.... He sent the $25 in June 1959... Show us the acceptance letter from ASC MH.... and why, out of the blue, does he send $25 on June 19th?
Assuming you find the acceptance letter - or anything which informs Oswald he's good to go.... This is followed by acknowledgement of receipt of the $25 and a package of info sent to Oswald on July 10th...
The next correspondence we have is MARCH 22, 1960 with ASC using Oswald's last address, that there will be a delay in the start of the semester... He has of course been discharged and has gone on the voyage to ASC with a new passport from which this image comes...
It's Sept 4, 1959... the man KNOWS he applied to a school yet has no info at all that he's been accepted... but can state with conviction on this app that he's going to college... and going to Finland...
Next we have this Sept 19 1959 letter from Oswald in New Orleans to his mother... He "couldn't tell her about his plans" - meaning that ASC - a liberal arts and music school and Oswald studying philosophy isn't something she could grasp? Or do you suppose he was talking about his impending defection?
Hey Mervyn... the excited youth going off to study in Switzerland does not mention it at all in his final letter to his mother from the US... Doesn't seem to have said anything about Albert Schweitzer College in the few days they have together....
Do you suppose he was going to get from Russia to Switzerland 6 months down the road to attend school?
Oswald appears before SNYDER and writes out his renouncement who in turn sends it to the USA... As we reflect on this document we again are reminded of the timing related to ASC.... None of the things he's done - including anything he did in his England layover - had anything to do with ASC or attending... (when and if you ever look into the reality/purpose of this statement, the results, and then what he was considered by the different agencies who passed judgment - you may see the spy craft a bit more clearly)
Oswald gets a response...
Next we have his letter to Robert... Nov 8, 1959.... and now we have an address for Oswald in Russia...
Do we not find it a bit odd that there is no mention of the school he so vehemently wanted to attend? No mention of Finland and another university?
Gee - I wonder what happened?
We are then treated to Oswald's reply which mentions the receipt of a letter from Robert with a number of questions...
Have you ever seen any of the letters sent TO OSWALD IN RUSSIA? This letter goes on for a while....
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=839&tab=page
And is followed up by another letter in Dec basically explaining that Oswald will be cutting all ties with the past and not write any more letters.... we wont be seeing another letter from our little defector until January 1961
Back to ASC... this March 22, 1960 letter is sent to the Marines address and ultimately winds up with Marge in Ft Worth...
This is the ONLY letter written in any direction in 1960. And now, obvious to all, Oswald never intended to go to ASC, never intended to be a student traveling thru Europe...
As you look back thru these letters and notice the lack of discussion (something Oswald was never short of) about ASC and what might be found there... In no time at all he is in Minsk and meeting Marina (who had already met Webster) and getting married...
There are those who will want to keep making this about a young man, religion and who knows what else... when the intelligence community was worried about his passport, his being impersonated or worse...
So MERVYN - you aware that Oswald had an established drop point to get info out of Russia as well as receive instruction? That his debriefing by the CIA is a ghost.... but we know who did it, when and why.... we also know quite a bit about his intelligence services support around him....
So as you MERVYN, continue to insert foot in mouth on subjects well out of your reach... you might consider reading about OSWALD's life BEFORE hoof in mouth disease.... although if you finally do start reading about Oswald, maybe... just maybe you can come back - tail between your legs - and apologize for what you've done here... that is if you're man enough to admit mistakes...
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Just now, Mervyn Hagger said:
David, I agree with most of what you stated, because it is fact based, On the other hand your conclusion about the school is a leap into the dark. You also failed to address his interest in attending a university in Finland. I have already told you why that institution is different, perhaps you can enlighten us in your own words why he wanted to go there.
I failed no such thing sir.... School was the LAST thing on Oswald's mind... Sorry you don't see that.
Like telling us that Webster was more interested in the trade show than defection... Or that any of the dozen defectors had other interests... Of course they needed to APPEAR as if they were doing other things.
It Seems to me you know next to nothing about spying and want to keep the conversation in your area of expertise despite it having nothing to do with Religion... Start a thread on Dulles' use of religious groups as cover around the world and maybe you can begin to see what we are talking about here.
Maybe explain how "traveling" to ASC in Sept 1959 makes any sense when the semester he specified on the app starts in April 1960...
Jason wrote: Can we just forget all that and look at him as an insecure 19 y.o. boy in 1959, just to see where that leads?
Sadly no, we know too much to demote our understanding to that level. He was not some kid trying to get to school... The educational excuse may meet some criteria so it LOOKED ok, but our Ozzie was far from being a student at this point... Nor would it matter...
Again, these events are not isolated test tube examples but an interwoven tapestry of deceit and spy craft which the US intelligence community had been practicing since the 30s.
You both may approach and discuss this any way you choose... Making this about the pawn, the patsy, the expendable asset just shows how narrow your focus is to the detriment of your vision. Your ability to see a bigger and bigger picture in which these events live and breath.
I thank Jason for his compliments about how I present my thoughts. If we don't remember that the Evidence tells the story of the conspiracy, NOT the story of the assassination we are doomed to make assumptions like this one about ASC, Univ in Finland and the reasons behind his being sent on his trip 6 months too early... His passport app said 4 months of travel... 6 months before classes began....
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Nailed it. Robert...
How smart is it to enter another's living room, vomit on the carpet, and then tell The owners how bad the decorating is....
Its call SPY CRAFT... maybe he could read a book !
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29 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
I agree that LHO, who read many different publications, could have found information about Schweitzer easily.
But not the Swiss police? Or were they not looking very hard?
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Jason, an advertisement does not generate its own application.... the correspondance flows as such....
March 4 1959 application signed and sent to Rhode Island from S. CA
March 28 1959 the school send him a note explaining he sent the wrong form.... and send him the right one....
No changes to the 3/4/59 signed app are made... AND the application tonthe school is not a 2nd copy but a different app entirely.
The school contacts the address they have in March 1960 to inform Oswald when he should arrive.... he is supposed to have attended in April 1960, not Sept.... the Gorsky Oswald is out in March.... 1959. Coincidence?
And my point remains... if Oswald could find it, why couldn't the French or Swiss police? Finally, and really notnworth arguing is that he was part of a defector program... he was coached as to what to say, where to go, etc...
The school has nothing to do with it... it was a cover... just as the religious relationship in this area is.. a cover.
or at least thats how its presenting itself....
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Truly not necessary to re-quote the entire post....
I appreciate your focus.... hopefully as you continue to look you will find that as hard as you try, no part of this exists on an island.
Calling it a "Cult" is also not anything that will ingratiate you here... do you normally walk into other's houses and begin by insulting their intelligence?
11 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:But until you can offer me strict proof that LHO left UK Immigration at Southampton and LHO handed in his US Passport for stamping at Heathrow, and then you can produce the ticket to show where he went (if indeed it was him), then all of your speculation ends before it starts in 1959 in England
Sir, I've already provided you with evidence stating LEE OSWALD left the Marines in March 1959.... with his records sent to Washington DC by Gorsky... so telling me that OSWALD was in the marines in Sept 1959, got a passport and went to New Orleans is in direct conflict with established evidence...
Your hard line about 50 years of hot air is understood, from someone with so little interest in the case... and yet again you sh#t all over your hosts...
That an "official line" has not been changed it vintage GARY MACK... how often does a corrupt history get rewritten?
And "one last thing" for me as well... your mixing of religion and political marketing is a rookie mistake and well understood... the "Selling" of ideas and ways to think has been fostered upon the US people for longer than you want to know... religion notwithstanding...
Religion added to the POV and the thought process, but discounting what the US Gov't did to "the People" over the past 80 years leaves me thinking you're not aware of the actual history of the US but only the homogenated version sold to kids in school and to adults in a manner we like to call ... Marketing.
This is a JFK forum Mervyn... you might consider that when commenting here.
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So it turns out that our man Josepf Dutkanicz and Vladimir Sloboda - who both defected in the summer after Oswald, 1960, were both Military intelligence.... both ACSI (now where have we seen that before Steve Thomas?)
but please don't jump to any conclusions... like Army Intel was somehow involved in getting Oswald to Russia....
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96584#relPageId=3&tab=page
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bumping this for Steve.... et al...
Seems the ACSI was somewhat involved with at least 2 of the defectors on the list from Otto which included Oswald, Webster and these 2....
That appeared to me a bit too close to home to ignore...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96584#relPageId=3&tab=page
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Robert.. I'm with you in a general sense...
in a specific sense... this sentence sure comes close...
The "point" is that spot from where JFK was definitely shot BEFORE reaching.... and shot solely by OSWALD... which of course has nothing to do with shot ballistics... unless you need to have the shooter in a specific spot.
Our intention is not to establish the
point with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the
hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald was the sole
assassin.
Commenting on the delivered assassination events and survey reports of the FBI and Secret Service: Redlich writes
one of the most incriminating sentences to date:I should add that the facts which we now have in our
possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and
Secret Service, are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will
present a completely misleading picture.
Albert Schweitzer College
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Jason,
And here we meet the impasse... You seem to completely disregard what it means to be involved in SPY-CRAFT.... ASC is a cover story... a back story from which information is provided should there every be a look into Oswald's Bona fides.....
"Says on the application he was a student, he applied for and was "accepted"(maybe), he has correspondence from... and since a student can get out of the Reserves earlier - he MUST have actually been a student...
You see Jason, there is no Cause-and-Effect there.... I mean there is MICRO and then there's microscopic... You simply cannot disregard the man's entire life and the situational evidence of a defector program to make a point about his interest in ASC...
Let me show you by example...
To give you some idea of how unimportant "education" was to Oswald... from the time he was in Jr High he has shown disdain and contempt for organized schooling...
The CARRO reports talk about his not saluting the flag and basically causing disruption throughout the day... and this is AFTER a 2.5 week stint at YOUTH HOUSE....
During the time in the Marines it is said he READ A LOT.... but did not attend any classes or go for any extra instruction...
Fast forward to the Oswald Project and the end of April 1963....
Mrs. MURRET - Yes; I said, "Well, Lee, how much does it pay?" and he said, "Well, it don't pay very much." He said, "It don't pay very much, but I will get along on it."
I said, "Well, you know, Lee, you are really not qualified to do anything too much. If you don't like this job, why don't you try to go back to school at night time and see if you can't learn a trade or whatever you think you can prepare yourself to do." And he said, "No, I don't have to go back to school. I don't have to learn anything. I know everything."
If you are going to stay on this tack... can you at least show us there is some reason to believe that this man given his history and the climate at the time... was actually interested in ASC...
Thanks