William Plumlee

----- Original Message ----- "...Tosh when you spoke on record for government investigator Rodney Stich this is what you told him: "The FBI report stated that 'it was his desire to establish his credibility concerning his past activities [working for government agencies and] in establishing contact with the FBI in Arizona in the event he should ever become involved in border-line activities.’ The report stated Plumlee agreed to provide a written report to the Phoenix FBI office. The report stated Plumlee was also flying for Regina Airlines and with Riddle Airlines. It was obvious for the FBI’s own reports that they knew of the drug trafficking into the United States by the CIA and the military, and that this includes knowledge of the FBI director.” So Tosh it really does not matter who the current or past FBI director is. Same goes for the CIA and DEA. The beat goes on. I respectfully submit you are too smart to play dumb. "...What's with Tosh's attitude? I think it is called FEAR and NOT WANTING TO GO TO PRISON if he starts flapping off about Jimmy. If Barry Seal was still alive and in prison, Tosh would act this way towards him too. I don't want to aggravate Tosh because of his past. "He was sent to the Miami area where he became involved in covert operations in Cuba, the Caribbean and Central America. Most of this time he flew guns and ammunition for various factions in half a dozen countries. Plumlee said he was driven by the adventure and paychecks. He explained that in his covert operations he had to keep other federal agencies form knowing about the clandestine and usually illegal operations." "Plumlee described the operation known as Operation Grasshopper, which was a top secret military operation, and involved such notable drug traffickers as Barry Seal. He described the protection of the government's involvement in drug trafficking by other government agencies, including the Mexican-American Special Operations Group (AMSOG) whose function was to block drug trafficking. He said that Barry Seal was an operative in this group in its early days. Plumlee described the brutal murder of a former Air America pilot in Quedo Loco Lobo, near Oaxaca in Southwestern Mexico by a Mexican named Pepe Suequez. Plumlee described how the informant described the killing of the American pilot, Maurice Louis Gonzales, was horribly mutilated and left to die in a Mexican prison for informing American authorities of what had happened." Not nice guys eh? Tosh knows the game well. Jimmy and I are not worth it to him and I understand why. Same for Zack. It isn't worth losing the FBI pension and everything by being a real whistle blower. Jimmy says I give Zack too much credit for being smart. He might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but he surly isn't the dullest. What is the story on Zack's happy handshake occasion with GHWB? Does Kenny know yet that you and Bob were the source of FBI problems and not me? It would be nice to have some help from his friends that think I'm an FBI agent. Pam Little lady you got your facts wrong again... the quote you mention about the FBI and my contacting them was in 1976, concerning matters of 1959-63 and had nothing to do with drugs of the 1970 or 80's. I was asked to contack the FBI in 1976, by senator Berry Goldwater's security advisor in reference to John Roseli and my safety, because of what we did in the sixties. I flew for Riddle and Regina in the late fifties and early sixties, not in the 70's and 80's. Operation Grasshooper was an UC operation and 23 Customs, CIA, and DEA, personal were found to be on the cartel's payoff... not the whole Customs, CIA, and DEA.. Its time to get your facts together before you lead a new generation astray with false research. I have said many times that the CIA personal in this operation were involved with the drug running for profit... They were caught and dealt with by their own, which is still classified... and that was also not a fun sight. It was another 'Bloody Mess'. They repented of their deeds before they saw their maker. Others should have followed but they went to jail and became born again. Some are out now and back to their old haunts and that is not going to Church like they did while in lock up. You are mixing apples and oranges and trying to create strawberries. It will not work with me. I see you and Files as Fraud. If you are not part of that, then you have been Con'ed. In my book there is no other way to say it. Do you want me to see Files face to face? I will be glad to do that. I have some very spacific questions to ask him.. No more, he said, they said.., I said BS.., just Facts... specific statements. What is Files military Service Number? What was his rank? What was his name? Thats; Name; Rank: and Serial Number. Every Vet knows that. What year? For some reason you are short of facts and long on wind... What are the names of the operations that J Files work with? Where were they located? north, south, east, or west? What country? Were they in the jungles? on the mountain tops.., on the beaches? Where? I need specifics from you and him. Not smokey things which have been written about in third rate books and articles. I am sorry if this offends you. I am not afraid of anything. I fly with the banner of Christ and I am alive.., for that I am thankful. I've paid my dues in that crazy world of dark shadows and I resent 'wanta bees' intruding into my world, to make a buck off dead people and write half assed books about things they no nothing about, hiding under the sheet of truth for profit.

A few years ago, a friend and I set of a fircracker on the southside of the tripple underpass.., about where we thought a shooter would have shot from. We watched the people who were standing around the kill zone and on the north knoll... They ALL first looked toward the north side of the underpass and some started walking that way. I found that interesting and then Dallas's fineist came and politely ask us to leave.

I have a lot more respect for the FBI, now that J Edgar Hoover is gone. There are damn good people, men and women, working within the FBI now days and that goes for the CIA also. Of course everyone in jail is innocent and its law enforcement's fault they are there.

Remember there are two sets of documents (342 pages declassified in 1981 that went to the HSCA. And another set of files 120 pages that did not go to the HSCA. Also note: when the FBI stated that I was in jail in for checks.. no checks were found and there is no court records of check charges in the cities they claimed. Why?

No it was not the REX. I think it was the "Wind Jammer" or the ". Not sure.Thore" I think the boat registrations would help you there.

I also flew Liza Howard to interesting places. But thats another story.

The FBI was "bird dogging" Roselli. He even had a double to throw them off so we could fly to various places in Fla. CA and NV. Some of the names were extreamely interesting to the FBI. Thats why Hoover, himself felt he had to 'shield these names from reports. Not bad for a young boy who embellishes his stories and was only a low class 'check writer'. Right? None the less they (FBI) classified these files for over 22 years. WHY?

Wim: I have a good idea who they are but its been so long that I am not sure of a lot of these names that have been blocked out... must have meant something the the FBI at the time. If the information was not creditable then why were they blocked out? I am not anywhere near any of my old files and I really can't recall some of these names at present. I think I will not speculate as to who any of these people are. And too, the names I do know I think it best to save for law enforcement if they want them... in some cases these cases are still open cold cases. It would not be fair to them to make the names public at this time. I'm sure some will say I never knew the names, but they were blocked out when I told the FBI the names... kind of like a catch 22.. Right. Sorry, I can't be more spacific on these maters at this time.... Tosh

Your right Wim. However when I have stated these points before, I have been told "Where is your proof?" Do you have anything to prove what you say? I don't know how to keep it simple without posting the documents and pointing WHERE the FBI withheld from the HSCA. .,and ask why? I know nobody really reads the documents, because they have been around for years, but when I state what is in them, then I am told its to complicated to get into. Point point being; if there is just one or two conflicting points regarding me and my record, what does that say? And why was it done? Why did the 1981 released documents to the HSCA come from the FBI and J Edgar Hoover himself? However the 1993 FBI documents were not released from the Director of the FBI. Does this not indicate selective released or not? If it does then I have to ask; WHY? Another point. Why was my FBI information and files classified in the first place? FBI has indicated (in these first files of 1981 Hoover released) that I was not a creditable source and I contacted them with a wild story? Then WHY were both files CLASSIFIED for over 22 years? And one set of files were never released to the Church Committee or the HSCA? I guess they were just confused and made a mistake. Also keep in mine that these posted pages are only a very small portion of the 400plus pages which have been posted. I was trying to keep it brief and simple. Thanks Wim: I appreciate the fed back...

You got it little one. Have a good Thanksgiving

NOTE: For anyone interesting in taking the time to open up the following links I think you will find the information more that interesting in reference as to how J.Edgar Hoover obstructed Justice in withholding inportant files from investigative committees, namely the HSCA: Note: I was asked by Senator Berry Goldwater and his security advisor, Mr Lombard(sp), in 1976, to contack the FBI because of the information I had discussed with them in reference to John Rosellie's safety, and my safety. The information I had received, about a threat on Rosellie and myself, had been obtained from Roselli's attorney because I had been Rosellie's pilot on a few occausions and I was being warned about my safety in case something happened to Roselli before he could testifie to theUnited States Senate again. This was in late June and early July a few weeks before Roselli was reported missing on July 23, 1976. I was asked by the FBI to please write down in proper format what we had discussed previously on the telephone. In reference to this matter, there are two different sets of FBI files on William Robert Plumlee. One set 342 pages were released to the HSCA; 1978, while the other 120 pages (Plumlee/Rosellie; 62-2116 file) was not released to the committee. This other file was not declassified until 1997. This file was withheld from the HSCA(1978) by J Hoover and the Department of Justice. A careful review of these pages will show how J Hoover withheld information contained within FBI files from the HSCA as well as other investigative committees: The following 120 pages were declassified in 1997, and released FOIA in 1999, but were not available in 1978 to the HSCA. The other set of FBI files, 342 pages, ref; FBI 105's and 26 fileswere released to the HSCA in 1978 as stamped on the pages. They were declassified and released by FOIA to Barnard Fensterwald and Gary Shaw in 1981. These files are in PDF foremat and may take awhile to load if your on dail up. Thess 120 pages were not released to the HSCA in 1978. They were declassified in 1997 and released FOIA in 1999. The HSCA did not see these files or the references made to Roselli. The following 342 FBI pages were declassified in 1981. They Were released to Barnard Finisterwald Jr. and Gary Shaw in 1981. The classified documents were released by J Hoover to the HSCA in 1978 for review. The following are only a small portion of the total files released. Of all these pages only a very small portion are available to researchers. Notice the stamping and notes where these 1981 declassified files went to in 1978 while they were still classified. Also note that the other set of FBI files of 1997 do not have the stamping because they were not supplied to the committee. Also note how the first set of files (1981) have been slanted to discredit Plumlee and how the second set of files differ on the Roselli Plumlee information because they had remained classified top secret, National Security Matter as found stamped of a few of the pages. Notice that the 62-2116 file is the same file number as the 62-2116 or Roselli's. (Plumlee/Rosellie 62-2116 FBI) Notice that Plumle had approached the FBI in June of 1976 as directed by Senator Berry Goldwater's Security (a Mr Lombard of Goldwater's staff) Notice that Plumlee was talking to the FBI about his safety and that of Rosellie three days before Roselli was reported missing. Notice. The FBI came to Plumlee's home on August 5th 1976 (the same day Roselli's body was found) asking him (Plumlee) to tell them everything he (Plumlee) knew about Rosellie. If Plumlee had not mentioned Roselli to the FBI earlier then how did they know Plumlee was talking about Roselli earlier in June 6, July 1, and July 26th, ( the same day Roselli disappeared) and again Aug 5th (the same day Roselli's body was found) http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/check2.PDF note; there is no arrest record recorded of an arrest in Ohio for this time frame. http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/check3.PDF U.S. Customs said to the FBI that Plumlee was arrested in Columbus Ohio with a plane load of arms bond for Cuba and he was turned over to local authorities in view...". There is nothing about any checks written or local police arresting Plumlee in Ohio. This was said by the FBI.. *** REVISED LINKS: click on url http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/toshrequest.PDF note FOIA request for all records http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBIlist1.PDF note reply to FOIA FBI said 'no records' http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbiresponse.PDF note: FOIA released 120 pages; thess 120 pages were not released to the HSCA in 1978. They were declassified in 1997 and released FOIA in 1999. The HSCA did not see these files or the references made to Roselli. http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi1.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi2.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi3.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi4.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi5.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi6.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi7.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/fbi8.PDF REVISED LINKS: http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81a.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81b.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81c.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81d.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81e.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81f.PDF notice HSCA stamp 1978 http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBI81g.PDF http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/check1.PDF note; ..his men had arrested plumlee for attempting to pass a forged check.......". http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/check2.PDF note; there is no arrest record recorded of an arrest in Ohio for this time frame. http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/check3.PDF U.S. Customs said to the FBI that Plumlee was arrested in Columbus Ohio with a plane load of arms bond for Cuba and he was turned over to local authorities in view...". There is nothing about any checks written or local police arresting Plumlee in Ohio. This was said by the FBI.. http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/check4.PDF note; Lab report from thre FBI. "... no checks could be found written by Plumlee...". http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBIlist2.PDF List of FBI files on William Robert Plumlee. Most of thes files were not declassified untill 1981. http://tosh.jfkmurdersolved.com/pdf/FBIlist3.PDF cont of Plumlee files. note files destoryed.

Thanks for that Tosh, Very important information. It has already been examined that the U.N. contacts between Carlos Lechuga and William Attwood probably leaked through wiretaps, but this makes me wonder if the Lisa Howard contacts were what leaked to the anti-Castroites. So by definition, when you say the flight was "cleared by Customs to fly through the AIDZ outside Key West," you are referencing Cesar Diosdado, correct? Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim; I would have no way of knowing that for sure. But if we had left United States airspace and was tracked by radar picket aircraft, boat or land base radar, coming and going out off and into the ADIZ then we would have been spotted and chase aircraft would have been dispatched from Key West NAS or Homestead AFB. It was a commond practice for Customs to have known something was in the air and it was not a 'boogy", and it was cleared by higher powers. Also note: the recordered Custom flight tracks would be erased for these authorized "overflight" aircraft. Who would have received this information? I would have no way of knowing those names. (there would be more than one person in on the information or clearance) I know that more than one Custom official knew of our flights although they would not know what these flights were about or who was onboard and why. I too, think leaks came from the Castro government or double agents in Miami and Cuba. I think international cables had been tapped by the CIA and this put Kennedy's secret mission in jeprody, almost before it got started.

[xxx

[ Deleted at Plumlee's request

Tosh, I have no primary documentation that would make me feel comfortable with identifying the pilot. Of course, the pilot himself could simply say who it was.... Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim Very Good point. I think I can help you on this, although it will perhaps create a fire storm of debate. I have said many times that I would not do this because of the crazies out there in never never land, but because of the in depth research you have done on this matter and others, I decided to make an exception and take the heat. The pilot was a cover name "Buck' Pearson (for the record) There were a series of flights from Marathon Florida involving Lisa Howard. They started around mid 1963. A number of cover stories were planted for her protection, as to how she left the USA for Cuba. The opening of this Chanel to Castro was said not to be a good one. President Kennedy thought otherwise. The covert operational cover story, in case the information became public. was for example: she went to Mexico. She went by private charter with the State Department, and the likes. She went to France and then Cuba, it was said. If uncovered it would be said " She worked this lead alone and without approval by the administration or ABC".. She actually left from West Palm Beach after meeting with Kennedy on the first flight and stopped at Marathon and boarded a covert flight for Havana. The flight was cleared by Customs to fly through the AIDZ outside key west. The aircraft was a D-18 Twin Beach N-6800 (if I remember right) At one time Steve Guthrie owned this aircraft and it was based at L.B. Smith Aircraft, Miami International. On another time she left from a place in Bimini, because it was thought that this operation should not be launched from United States territory. The aircraft was a Twin Cessna 310 #97-LL that had been based at Hollywood Florida and belong to Jack Ryley.

[quote=Tim Carroll,Nov 22 2004, 08:02 AM] THE "WHOLE BAY OF PIGS THING": FROM DALLAS TO WATERGATE *I am particularly indebted to Carl Oglesby, whose historical framework has guided me through decades of solitary analysis. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *** Tim: I read your paper with detailed interest. This is a fine job of research and your are to be commended. The younger generation would do well to look closely as to what you have submitted. There are many parts contained therein, I am sure, which will become a major part of future historical research. The referenced material is also a tremendous aid to following the paper. Send us more of the same. P.S. who was the covert pilot? Is there any documentation you could provide as to his Identity? Thanks Tosh Plumlee

Very interesting post from the record. Now we need to look at the Forth Army Reserve, Dallas Love Field. There was at one time a report from Company C 156th Tank Bat. which was relayed to 112th Intel at Fort Sam Houston which had Oswald living on Beckley for a very short time. They had received other earlier information from a 49th Armored Div. Texas National Guard, a Capt Cook and that information was sent to an ONI unit at Hensley Field Grand Prairie, Texas, requesting information about the status of LHO. This request was made before LHO had lived on Beckley and before he went to N.O. LHO name was on record with ONI before Beckley. Congressman Tom Downing had received the documents from an 'unknown officer" of the Forth Army Reserve, Dallas. In time this information and documentation was given to a Texas State Representative, in Austin Texas. Shortly after this information was received by Congressman Downing. The hard copy was lost or misplaced shortly before the HSCA was chaired. The WC did not obtain this information. Professional researchers need to research the Forth Army Reserve and do a cross check on the names found in the Fourth and the Fifth Army and cross check the ONI Navy field office at Hensley or Bauchman Lake near Dallas Love Field. Something, I think will pop up which could prove interesting.

Deleted at request of Plumlee

[

Tosh, you bring up this character every now and then. You have aroused my interest in his work. Where and when will this material be available to researchers?Referring to: "His material is a must read". Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Over the years parts of his work have been released. He gets very upset if his I.D. is made public or sited as the source. He works with documents and does his own leg work.., he does not get into opinions or speculations unles he can throw a document or some other fact in your face. He is very sick now with cancer and some (as well as I) are trying to get him to share his work with the research community. In my eye he is one of the unsung heroes of the research community. His work not only concerns JFK but all the side bars into the Texas political systems which may have lead up to that day. And too, he was there that day in an official capacity. His own story is one I find very interesting and I think should be told along with his research. There is a world of history in his files. I do not feel I should breach his trust by exposing him to the community until he so desires.

The previous post should be noticed: It takes one to know one. This was a well planned hit and did not just pop to the surface overnight; an operation ran by a few 'good old buddy' type personal who just decided one day to kill a President because they were pissed. Covert OPS don't work that way.These assault teams, three in all were "shadow personal" to be used once and then past into the voids of lost and none existence operations. There was or is a world out there that the average 8 to 5 personal can even begun to comprehend. We have to look beyond the norm and forget the land of names and faces. These assassins were a special breed. A hit and disappear team; a team drifting through that plaza much like a vapor. Years later these same type teams used to prowl the jungles of southeast Asia and Central America. To find them is like chasing a shadow. By the time you see their hit, they are gone and your left scratching your head wondering which way they went. Thats 'Black Ops" Its a specialty. Some take pride in it even today.