Nic Martin
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Posts posted by Nic Martin
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Beaumont is a little over 2 hours away from me, maybe once my car gets out of the shop, I'll be able to drive there.
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Sorry, my browser was being weird. Double-post, deleted.
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Just to give an idea as to Marina's lack of complete grasp on the English language & American ways, here's an excerpt from her Orleans Parish Grand Jury Testimony, page 71. And doesn't it seem a bit like Garrison's leading her at times? Anyway, the reason this part is about Ruth Paine is that it was copied ( and the HTML switched into BB code ) from a personal online research journal into Ruth ( that only my close friends are able to read as it's nothing groundbreaking yet ).
Juror: How old is Ruth Paine?
Marina:Older than me, 5, 6, or 7 years.
Juror Do you still see Ruth Paine?
Marina: No, I like her and appreciate what she did. I was advised by Secret Service not to be connected with her, seems like she was .. not connected .. she was sympathizing with the CIA. She wrote letters over there and they told me for my own reputation, to stay away.
Juror: The Secret Service told you this?
Marina: Yes.
Mr. Alcock: What did they say?
Marina: They didn't say anything personal about her, but they said it's better for me to stay away from her for a while, it seemed like she was sympathizing with CIA.
Mr. Garrison: Couldn't they say she was connected with the Central Intelligence Agency, because that's our conclusion about Ruth Paine.
Marina: I don't know if she was connected with CIA, but they told me to stay away.
Mr. Sciambra: Did they say sympathize or associated with?
Marina: I don't remember right now exactly, but the way I understood...
Mr. Sciambra: Did they explain to you why it would be bad for you to associate with her if she was associated with the CIA?
Marina: I had the impression... the Civil Liberties Union, I don't know...
Juror: Marina, did the Secret Service say to you, Marina, it is better for you not to see Ruth Paine anymore because it's not good for you, she might be saying things to the CIA that might be detrimental to you, Marina?
Marina: No, because she... What is CIA?
Juror: Central Intelligence Agency.
Marina: Could she be member?
Mr. Garrison: She probably is employee.
Mr. Sciambra: In other words, they gave you the impression...
Marina: Seems like she had friends over there and it would be bad for me if people find out connection between me and Ruth and CIA.
Mr. Sciambra: In other words, you were left with the distinct impression that she was in some way connected with the CIA?
Marina: Yes.
Mr. Garrison: Were you surprised to learn that the FBI and the Secret Service were not clear as to just who was with the CIA? Did that not occur to you as rather odd?
Marina: I was not questioning them so much.
Mr. Garrison: In Russia generally, if somebody is with the Intelligence Agency, doesn't the rest of the government know about it?
Marina: I guess so..
Mr. Garrison: Did the FBI indicate any curiosity about Ruth Paine?
Marina: Yes.
Mr. Garrison: In the same way?
Marina: I don't know which way because I wasn't there, but they questioned her a lot.
Mr. Garrison: How about Michael Paine?
Marina: Him too.
Mr. Garrison: He worked for Bell Helicopter.
Marina: He used to work then I heard he lose his job. I hope not.
Mr. Garrison: No, he didn't lose it.
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There's long been a theory that she was threatened with being deported if she didn't agree with the official version, and some claim that Marina only changed her stance after LBJ died. I really can't say one way or the other, as I haven't done as much research into her as I'd like.
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Haha, no, just a screwed up, whiny teenager. Some would say I still am a screwed up, whiny, teenager. At least I dress better now.
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I always had this habit of not believing what I hear. I don't take advice. I have to get hurt, and be proven wrong, and then get up, brush myself off, and believe it. I have to get my hands dirty. I can't just take anything as gospel.
My family are all die-hard overly-religious Republicans, and none of them really cared about JFK at all. I had this, feeling in my stomach that I had to prove Oswald innocent. Before I knew anything about the case, I had to prove him innocent. I'd spend days without sleeping looking at books and documents and talking to people, running off pure drive. I worked myself so hard I spent a week in the hospital from exhaustion. I wouldn't give up.
I've had this problem with authority for years. I did my teenage rebellion, and got into this ridiculous habit of wearing all black ( woo for growing out of it ). Because of this, regardless of the fact that I've never been a violent person, someone reported that I was planning the next Columbine, and I had to spend two hours in the principal's office being watched by district police while they searched my bag, my locker, and all of my classrooms. This pissed me off because a popular guy was beating up a "nerd" on the track at the same time, but I was the one being treated like trash. It's hard to take people seriously when they single you out because you're quiet and wear black. I instantly became skeptical of any authority figure telling me who was guilty and innocent, because I was presumed guilty just for something I wore.
Wow, that's a way-too-long post.
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Nic,
She said
PS Richard, it is not Nancy.
He was accusing me of something I did not do and would not do.
I don't wish to attack anyone. Not at all.
I just want to now get on with my life,
I have had to much inuendo's against me to deal with this any longer.
I love research. I was kicked off another forum because of Richard rediculus twists against me.
Anyone that stands up to any thing they believe in in the JFK world does get some serious attacks on them. This isn't right. It is worth fighting. Some have been threats on their own life. I never received a threat from Richard I am not saying that about him. He is a good reseracher but he twists things on people and that is so wrong. He is part of the reason I was kicked off of Lancer in the first place.
Not all of it but a rather large part of it.
I just want to now enjoy the holiday and get with some other serious issues now off of the forum to silently do that.
I wish all of you well. Truely I do.
I will be back at a later time.
Merry Chirstmas and Happy New Year to all of you.
GOD BLESS
You really just need to calm down and realize not everyone is out to get you. Seriously, Nancy - you'll wind up with an ulcer if you keep it up. ( And no, that's not a threat. )
Richard doesn't have the power you think he does. He can't twitch his nose and get you kicked off a forum. You know, maybe it's not just ONE PERSON.
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Nancy, please, just drop it.
Richard is a highly intelligent person, and he's been incredibly nice to me (which is something that, being as loud and opinionated as I am, doesn't happen often). He's a great guy, and he knows way more than you're giving him credit for.
You take things way too seriously. You do have a habit of typing nonsensical items much like I did when I was suffering from insomnia and would be so gone to the point watching cartoons became a challenge.
On top of that, Dawn misunderstood Richard's comment - and you pop in out of nowhere spewing BS. I think you should back off and, like the rest of us do, try to get along because this is the last great forum available for this research, and if everyone leaves - this community will fall apart.
Personally, I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.
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Al,
In the RFK assassination, the bullet also had a magical quality, as after being fired from a few feet in front of RFK it circled around and hit him point blank behind the ear.
Ron
That has been explained before, although - like the SBT - is a bit difficult to believe.
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I can't say 100% that I BELIEVE Tosh, but I can't say that I disbelieve him either. Most of his story checks out, and I'm willing to give him a chance - I won't write him off as hogwash immediately, but I won't praise him for coming forward either.
The most complicated thing being, of course, what you believe happened in Dealey Plaza. Cubans, mob, LBJ, grassy knoll, south knoll, Depository, Dal-Tex. Too much thinking about on end will make you dizzy. Nobody knows what really happened, and except for Abraham Zapruder & the people in the Presidential car, we can't account for anyone else's movement that day.
This case is a lot like a religion. You pick a version to believe, and you have to have pure faith in it. Unfortunately, Tosh is a part of this, and you can have faith in him - or you can write him off.
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I have it on order - I've heard good things so far, but who knows.
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I'm ashamed that the research community is repeatedly destroyed by the same people with the same ideas, and that Mr. Vernon can strike fear into people by threatening baseless lawsuits. I can't stand that the most amazing people are talking about leaving such a wonderful place, when giving in is precisely what Mr. Vernon wants you to do.
I understand being a bit freaked out about this, but my elders always told me if you give in to bullies, they don't stop. If you stand up to them, they really don't have much to carry against you.
The problem, of course, being that nobody's willing to stand up to Mr. Vernon.
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I, like several other people, have printed out threads to read and re-read. I've loved them. Even threads like To Kill A Country interested me, though I don't believe the Mr. Files scenario.
I don't have anything to present at this time, but I'd hope to do to other new researchers what people on this board did for me ( even though I've been reading into this for five years, I'm nowhere near as educated as most of you ).
I'm hoping for another set of seminars soon.
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You have to wonder why anyone ever involved with the NSA would give a damn about a research page unless it was offensive. I'd do that search daily, they might take it off when you least expect it.
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My experience of life has suggests that you should never trust someone who appears to love dogs more than people.
I suppose I shouldn't be trusted. :]
On another note, I heard that LBJ abused animals. Not sure if it's true, though, as I've only read a few books on him.
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Wonderful points, I wonder what all it would take to get an experiment running to test the echo effect. This was really well-written, and I'm sure it'd be an eye opener for anyone who didn't previously consider the south Knoll. Congrats!
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There was a snippet in the Houston Chronicle about his back brace the other day, I've typed it up for anyone who wants to read it. It's lone-nut, obviously, but.. it's on topic. Sorry for any typos, I type rather quickly and I don't pick up on them until later.
JFK and the corset that helped to kill a president
- Back brace made Kennedy an almost stationary target
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By James Reston Jr.
Two years ago, historian Robert Dallek revealed new details about the extraordinary range of shots, stimulants and pills President Kennedy took to control his physical pain and present his youthful image to the world. Importand and interesting as these details are, they should not distract us from the one medical remedy that probably killed the president: his corset.
Members of Kennedy's inner circle had often witnessed the painful ritual that Kennedy endured in his private quarters before he ventured in public, when his valet would literally winch a steel-rodded canvas back brace around the president's torso, pulling heavy straps and tightening the thongs loop by loop as if it was a bizarre scene out of Gone with the Wind.
Once in it, the president was planted upright, trapped and almost bolted into a ramrod posture. Many would wonder how JFK could ever move in such a contraption. And yet move he did, and, besides his pain killers, his corset contributed to the youthful, high-shouldered military bearing that he presented glamorously to the world.
But this simple device imparted a fate almost Mephistophelean in it's horror to the sequence of events in Dallas 41 years ago.
In researching my biography of Gov. John Connally of Texas 15 years ago, I was put on to the critical importance of Kennedy's corset in the ghastly six seconds in November 1963 by a former Texas senator, the late Ralph Yarborough, who was in the motorcade that day.
Yarborough growled softly about that "damned girdle," and tihs led me to the remarks of two doctors, Charles James Carrico and Malcom Oliver Perry, buried in Volume 3 of the 26-volume set of testimony that attended the Warren Commission report.
In November 1963, Carrico was the 28-year-old resident in the emergency room of Parkland Hospital who first received the injured president in the trauma room; Perry came quickly to the emergency room to supervise the case - and then to pronounce the president dead a half-hour later.
Before the Warren Commission, Carrico told of removing Kennedy's back brace in the first seconds after his arrival. He described the device as made of coarse white fiber, with stays and buckles.
Apart from the never-ending controversy over how many bullets Lee Harvey Oswald actually fired from the Texas School Book Depository, most experts agree with the Warren Commission that Oswald's first bullet passed cleanly through Kennedy's lower neck, missing any bone, then entered Connally's back, streaking through the governor's body and lodging in his thigh. This was the first so-called magic bullet.
When Connally was hit, he pivoted in pain to his left, his lithe body in motion as it swiveled downward, ending up in the lap of his wife, Nellie.
But because of the corset, Kennedy's body did not act as a normal body would when the bullet passed through his throat. Held by his back brace, Kennedy remained upright, according to the Warren Commission, for five more seconds. This provided Oswald the opportunity to reload and shoot again and an almost stationary target.
The frames of the Zapruder film confirm this ramrod posture: Kennedy's head turns only slightly in those eternal seconds, and his upper body almost not at all, from frame 225 (when the first shot entered his neck) to the fatal frame of 313.
Without the corset, the force of the first bullet, travelling at a speed of 2,000 feet a second, would surely have driven the president's body forward, making him writhe in pain like Connally, and probably down in the seat of his limousine, beyond the view of Oswald's cross hairs for a second or third shot.
With no bones struck and the spinal cord intact, the president almost certainly would have survived the wound from the first bullet. Both Carrico and Perry testified to this likelihood (and apropos of the decades-long controversy, both testified that the small, round, clean wound in the front of Kennedy's neck was an exit wound rather than an entry wound).
To Perry, under the questioning of then-assistant counsel - now senator from Pennsylvania - Arlen Specter, the injury was "tolerable"; the president would have recovered. Because the bullet had passed below the larynx, the wound would not even have impaired his speech later.
In the new focus on cortisone shots, codeine painkillers, barbituates, stimulants such as Ritalin, and gamma globulin injections, the simple corset needs to be emphasized, tragically, in the context of those medical strategies Kennedy used to create the illusion of the vigorous leader.
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Reston's forthcoming book is on the Spain of Christopher Columbus and will be published by Doubleday next year.
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Ah Nic, how old are you?
The reason I ask this is because you sound younger like a teenager?
Am I correct?
I understand more than you think, is that clear?
I sure - do hope so.
And if you are an adult which you are growing into then I guess you are the one to feel more embarrassed then me.
By the way, I am not the one here embarassed, is that clear.
The profile says 17. It hasn't changed since I joined. I'm not embarrassed, and I wasn't suggesting that you should be, either. I'm actually not out to get you, Nancy. I'm simply stating something that you didn't seem to understand the first few times around.
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Excellent response.
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Acording to the film
Powers has now passed away and he signed a paper and stated that it will not be released.
Sorry, but that is what was stated on the film.
Go get the film and see it and if it should be listed on Denis Listing again set time to see it. Well, worth it.
Thanks for showing me the clipping.
Nancy. Dave Powers died March 27, 1998. His film, as pointed out above, was released in 1996. The History Channel was wrong. Incorrect. False. Faulty. Flawed. Mistaken. Inaccurate. Untrue. Way off. Do you understand? He ran out of film before entering the Plaza, so the President's death was not caught by his tape. The government really isn't hiding something from you this time.
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Hi NIc....
I hope this will help you out. It is the Testimony of Everett D. Glover.
In addition. although you are probably already aware of it, perhaps some may not be, I have added the Witness Testimonies page.
TESTIMONY OF EVERETT D. GLOVER
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/glover.htm
JFK Asaassination witness page
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/wit.htm
Good luck!
Dixie
Thank you! I'd been to that page before, I just don't guess I found that then.
Thanks so much for the help. -
I've spent most of the day reading through the Orleans Parish Grand Jury transcripts of Marina & Ruth Paine, and the WC testimonies ( what else can a sick girl do? ) - and is there any information on Everett Glover? I can't find anything, but he might be worth looking into. DeMohrenschildt said in his WC testimony, "Everett Glover is a chemist at Magnolia Laboratories, Standard Oil of New York Research Laboratories."
Ruth, in her Grand Jury statement, said that.. ( Typed directly from my copy, anything spelled incorrectly is not my doing. )
Q: When did you first meet Lee & Marina Oswald?
A: I met them in February of 1963. I brought with me the calendar I kept that year. You didn't ask me to bring anything, but I thought it might be helpful.
Q: Fine.
A: I started it years ago because some of it is hazy in my mind and this might be helpful. There is a notation on the 22nd of February says "Everett" and a question mark, at that time there was a gathering of people at Everett Glover's, he was the only one I knew in that crowd but he knew that I was studying Russian and he asked me to come.
Q: Do you know who else was at the party?
A: A couple, the de Mohrenschids, a couple of roommates, he was at the party, seperated or divorced, another couple from Irving, all of these people, as I say, except Glover, are people I had not met before.
Q: When did you first hear of the Oswalds?
A: When Everett called and said he wanted to get some people together, he mentioned this couple, that she was from the Soviet Union and he had been and come back.
She goes on to say that nobody introduced them, as they arrived after she had, then disappeared into the bedroom to put June to sleep, but that it was a small gathering. Considering the first connection we have from the Paines to the Oswalds is Mr. Glover, and I can't find anything else on him. Am I missing something?
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Nic and Mike,
I recall seeing an interview with Powers, or someone close to him, saying he would never release his film. It eventually was released in 1996.
You can view the film with Quicktime here:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9611/21/kennedy.lost.film/
RJS
That's right, that's the clip I have. Thanks to you & Mike.
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This is just, astonishing, that any lone-nutter can possibly think every single one of these people is lying. What would they have to gain by lying? Are they just incorrect? Personally, I think it's suspicious that this group of every-day people can agree, and everyone in a position of power ( or in a position to lose power, depending on how you look at it ) say otherwise.
Thanks so much for the help.
Jackie Kennedy and the assassination of JFK
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
JFK had the drive to change the country, but I believe RFK had the passion to change the world.
And he never got a chance.
I was talking to this guy about history, and I said something something "RFK." He actually paused and said, "Wait, you mean JFK?" Nobody even knows who Bobby was anymore. He did so much and could have done so much more, but nobody even remembers him.