Gerry Hemming

Josiah Thompson also believes that David Wimp's deceleration theory has merit. Contributing to that theory is the fact of JFK's back brace. Given that his torso was held upright by a back brace, the president's head was more prone to reflect the deceleration than other occupants of the limo, who would have shown the effects in a more generalized fashion. Tim Carroll ----------------------- I wore a similar type "girdle" back-brace after a parachute failure [total malfunction - 1965]. It is an over the shoulder vest type which rubs against the back of the neck. Just where is that "girdle" with the "hole in the shoulder blade" area stored today ??!! GPH ___________________________

I didn't mean anything all that negative by the use of the term Hemingwayesque; I simply find the concept of a warrior's respectfulness for a foe to be extremely rare in matters of international relations. I love Hemingway, personally. Trying to be as precise as possible, I went back and edited my post almost an hour before Gerry responded. The screen does need constant refreshing to be current. But in this case I had already corrected my wording to read that Oswald's "flight back to N.O. on Howard Hughes' plane was set up by Moody." That's a very kind offer, but Diamond Bar is near Chino, a prison town in Southern California. I live in Chico, a little college town north of Sacramento. Tim Carroll ------------------------------ Never spent much time in northern CA., save for USMC winter training at "Pickle Meadows" just west of Bishop. A favorite place was Lone Pine, and when very young always passed through there after buying Silver Dollars at the old cow Town Carson City - Quaint Capitol. Chino is an air show town for me. I flew my warbird there a one time, and also did some sky diving there. De Torres set up a lot of hits, and the problem was that they mostly favored Fidel's people. He approached me to take out Torriente for $25K, but I said that domestic work on noncombatants wasn't my line -- and moreover, I questioned exactly what was, and who had, the beef against this guy ?? He did NOT call Sylvia ever, and Angelo never hinted at same. Mellen alleges that the call was made behind Murgado's back. Who is the source. Not one of the compartmented guys & gals on the Odio matter have ever talked to anybody, save their "cutouts" to RFK's teams. These folks refused to discuss these matters with anybody else but me [and on a limited basis]. They didn't even want to speak with others they knew or suspected to be amongst the compartmented elements. And they dogmatically and absolutely refused to talk to talk to any reporter, writer -- even if the party was from the CIA/I.G.s office, and especially not with any CIA elements !! So where does this "Bernie called back to Sylvia" really come from ??!! The inside scoop of Sylvia, et al. and especially any relationship with a young priest -- can't be clearly answered, not by her or the others. And moreover, she wouldn't be interested in finding out either !! Even when people believe that they are participating in something patriotic and noble -- when the final results are kept secret, most non-operators feel used -- and/or betrayed. They have a hard time grasping that it is safer for all concerned -- NOT to know intricate details. However, they sure as hell feel that it is not normal when when the "Mushroom" syndrome arrives. De Torres taking on a JFK type task, not likely -- even if it was a logistics, commo, or coordinator tasking, he likes living too well -- and he would avoid an Op which either might go sour, or as happens in the drug trade, you expect to be paid in Silver [Plata] but in the end you are paid in Plomo [lead] !! When an asset doesn't have a clue as to what is really going on, later on and down the road, they lose interest in finding out !! Discovering that you have been "used" is a bitter experience. [Twyman shed tears when he got that kind of feeling about me and the teams -- while I thought he was trying to say: "...welcome home soldier...you've earned it" -- but that just wasn't the case at all !!]] Mellen wouldn't take NO for an answer, and just couldn't [or wouldn't] comprehend that most of these folks have no interest in rehashing the unknown/uncertain past. This is primarily due to a fear that: they will be linked to something bad, or worse, discover that they had been used like a goat. And they sure as hell don't want those close to them to discover their past [good or bad]. It causes rifts, jealousies, and recriminations within the extended family -- especially when there exist distinct opposing beliefs. Angelo is of the same mindset as the rest, and if I hadn't believed that it was time to set history straight, and give some overdue credit -- I would have never pounded him to open up just a little bit. Only on two occasions has he ever done so. Now look at what the response has been. A bunch of "Bookies"; who have never been there nor done that. "Talking the Talk, without ever having even been close to The Walk !!" Don't bother asking a veteran grunt; they don't talk "outside of class" -- and operators -- If you ever find a real one, he/she won't be a conversant one. That is just the way it is -- I learned that at a very young age, and have since instilled much of it in my kids. Most of what is in print, including what is at NARA is "Legend" and "backstop" files !! CYA flows through the blood of the Intel Community -- when it clots, we get 9/11s !! 'Nuff said, GPH __________________________

That's quite a reaction! Anyone can see that I asked two very civil questions and included no accusatory statements, libelous or otherwise. According to my limited grasp of Hemmingese, the answers appear to be: 1. The use of 5 planes wasn't "extensive" given the circumstance; and 2. Oswald was flown by Rorke and Sullivan to Merida from "an undisclosed location" near either N.O. or Beaumont, TX, and was flown back to N.O. by Moody. Tim Carroll ------------------------------------ "CIVIL QUESTION" MY ASS !! Why would Angelo be treated as a V.I.P. by Castro and his generals? Why would he be reinstated as a Citizen of the Republic of Cuba? Is it some kind of twisted Hemingwayesque sportmanship, the love and mutual respect for one's foe? Or is there some actual, more sinister relationship underlying the exile community's repudiation of Angelo Murgado? Tim Carroll ------------------------------------ Why would Angelo be treated......reinstated citizenship........twisted Hemingwayesque......sinister relationship...repudiation...[LHO] flown back by Moody...!! Amaury is not going to respond to a slur which anybody familiar with the "Queen's English" can interpret as: Angelo must be a "Fidelista" -- and therefore he is being rewarded for some dark duties which he must have performed for Fidel, maybe even while at RFK's side ??!! Sounds like what a coward-ass Batistiano might mumble tonight !! Or am I the one who has got pissed off because some tree-hugging sissy dared to challenge what the hell an operator has stated ??!! WWII Marines flying together -- back to Mount Suribachi with veterans of the Imperial Japanese Marines and Army -- to mourn and celebrate the lives of Warriors -- NOT enemies -- Warriors. But how the hell would one expect that a quasi-draft dodging, anti-military sillyvillian pogue, would EVER grasp such a concept ?!. Warriors returning to Vietnam, walking together with former enemy soldiers -- WARRIORS -- talking about what it was like during specific battles -- having since discovered that they had faced one another -- right there -- in brutal, vicious, and terrifying combat. NOT discussed or even hinted at: the shooting of enemy wounded -- using the night cries of dying boys to suck warriors into a trap !! But you wouldn't know anything about that. Which of the Batista thugs has passed onto to your "informant" [if it wasn't you in Miami recently...and I really doubt you have the stones to go there and open your pie-hole] these gems of information ??!! I expect that one of the non-DGI Batistianos would thuggishly claim that the "Community" has "repudiated" Angelo. Sure thing, and I hope that the Batista loving cowards are claiming this, because it will automatcally serve to enhance Murgado's prestige amongst the REAL Miami Cubans. Wipe the mascara away and read what I wrote -- Moody supplied the aircraft.....which doesn't prove that he even knew where it was going, nor who might be onboard. In fact, these aircraft are kept by an F.B.O. and leased or rented to qualified pilots who have bona fides, and give a reasonable itinerary, how many days, how many hours [if the bird has no Hobbs Meter], departure, routes, and destinations. The DEA & FAA published a finding years ago that over 4,000 pilots had died [of various causes, usually by crashes] while attempting to smuggle dope into the U.S. -- between 1970 and 1990. I knew a few dozen of them, and in some cases was paid by family of doper associates to do search & rescues all over the Bahamas, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, DomRep, etc., etc.! And in rare cases, the doper pilots had a "front-man" pilot -- paid to either "position" the bird at a jump-off strip in the Caribbean; or at an airport in the northern states. The innocent owner or F.B.O. never suspects that his bird would be going south. And in fact, many insurance contracts required that: [especially w/ the "fave" Cessna 210 "Centurion"] the flight would never go near the southern states !! Figured out what an "F.B.O." is yet ??!! Fixed Based Operator, licensed by the FAA to hangar, repair, maintain, lease/rent aircraft owned by other parties. Sometimes they use "lease-backs" -- but the use of an FBO limits the time an expensive bird just sits in a hangar -- NOT paying for itself !! Moody's son monitors this Forum. Would you like to accuse he or his father, of some sinister scheme involving either framing LHO or murdering JFK -- or both??!! Why would Artime accept Batistianos "who hated him" into the ranks of 2nd Naval Guerrilla. First, because some CIA straight-leg/REMF/coward-ass pogue ordered it. And I wouldn't be at all shocked that the orders originated with a mole missed by JJA. NOT that the REMF was a mole, because the moles always dupe and use the coward-ass REMFs, and without even kissing them when they are done -- not even a "reach-around" !! Artime was a weird Catholic dude, who like weenie-wagging "fairy" Ferrie, always wanted to be a Catholic Priest. Maybe not even a pedaphile priest ??!! He was very forgiving, just like the REMFs at JM/WAVE who allowed that operation to be totally penetrated by moles -- most of whom turned out to be Batistianos !! Artime forgave those Batistianos who coward-ass surrendered to the enemy without firing one shot. Fidel's Milicianos laughed their asses off for months after the BOP, retelling the stories of Batistiano (mercenary worms -- gusanos mercenarios) screaming and crying: "don't shoot...don't shoot...we surrender...smell my gun...I never fired it..!!" ["No tires....no tires...halto el fuego...nos rendimos...huele my "hierro"...huele mi fusil..yo no he tirado ni una bala...!!] Out of respect for the dead and the surviving heroes, like the Sherman Tanker ("The Egg"), and hundreds of others -- they opted to spare the widows, children, extended families, and the honorable name of the Brigade -- by refusing to disclose anything untoward. Even De Torres was suspected of having been turned, but the CIA explained that he had obviously fooled the DGI with some "dangling". De Torres' clique, well catch the next Lineas Aereas De Chile down to Santiago de Chile. Hook a ride about 76 miles south to the "NAZI/Kraut" compounds where the ODESSA folks retire [and drink Bock Beer and fine wines] -- and ask him youself. BTW, don't forget GEICO !! I do believe that a dominatrix like Ninoschka would claim title to that "clique" -- not Roberto !! Back in 1975 I paid a now well know DGI asset for photos, which had been taken all over both the Monkey Point and El Tortuguero bases, including clear shots of ALL of the leadership, and the CIA and Pentagon pogues who touristed on by, enroute to the whorehouses in San Jose'. 124 photos, and just cost me a $100 bill. Donated them to Bob Brown during a visit to the SOF office on Arapahoe in Boulder -- just in case he ever did HIS long awaited CIA "expose'". Sometimes I think that he has given that up, and I might as well ask for the spy pics backs. Since few former Fidel [or any anti-Batista Rebels] were ever employed by JM/WAVE, its easy to guess that the majority of moles were Batistianos. At least the ones who later got on CMQ/TV in Havana and said so !! You might be near my brother's office in Diamond Bar -- drop me a line, and maybe I can convince him to get your mind right !! GPH ______________________

What was it about the Rorke-Sullivan flight that would be worth such an extensive intervention as Castro sending 5 airplanes to Cozumel? Where was Oswald on his way from when flown into Merida and what would the Hughes connection be to that? Tim Carroll ------------------------------ I have been asked already as to why the hell I am responding to a Lancer, Wim, Weberman type xxxxx. I still have the original cables which I stole [$20 mordida] from the little RAMSA radio shack back in the bushes on the east side of the Cozumel airstrip. 5 planes, because the Rorke/Sullivan bird was just the first of a group of airplanes scheduled to follow over the next few days !! More importantly, Rorke was connected to "Queen" Hoover (does that term somehow offend you ??!!). Some months previous, Rorke had claimed affiliation with the D.R.E., and was the reason that we took "Chilo" Borja and Joannides to the Hollywood, FL "convention-CON-to-raise-$-and gain fame" -- and threatened Rorke with exposure of the "Les Violins" fiasco [Feb. 1963] should he persist !! Howard "gomer" Hughes involved ?? Who the hell knows, the Op with the Lode-Star was set up by Moody. Others going to Cuba via slipping on board the Cubana de Aviacion bird refueling at Merida -- well one was Saul "Saggy" my wiiddle friend. I could give a rat's ass who the others were. That would be Cmdte. Manuel "Barba Roja" Pineiro [DSE/DGI] NOT Fidel !! 5 airplanes an extensive operation ??!! GET REAL !! That was done every week for commercial purposes, and was sanctioned by the then Governor of Quintana Roo Province, Yucatan State. You know, Lazaro Cardenas, the ex-Communist President of Mexico during the 1930s/early '40s ??!! Usually, 2 INRA planes were used. When I ran BAM San Julian Air Base [1960] I regularly flew to Cozumel without any flight plan, and fees were waived if I brought some "Abajo - H. Upmann cigars" from the nearby plantation at San Juan y Martinez -- which is a tourist site now. My last gun-running Op was out of Cozumel [Dec. 1958] with the load destined for Cmdte. Dermidio Escalona's Pinar del Rio ("Alzados") Sierra Occidental guerrillas. The load was retrieved by the guerrilla column lead by 1st Lt. Neil McCaulley (US Army Reserve), and who later wrote the best book on Sandino -- whilst professoring at the U. of Florida [Gainesville]; and is now retired and lives nearby. During 1958, Howard K. Davis lead the first guerrilla/maritime expedition into Pinar del Rio, landing near Las Martinez on the south coast. Because the fishing village destination was call El Corojo", this was later written up in Cuba as the "El Corojo Expedition". Shortly thereafter, Davy started flying loads into Raul Castros "2nd Front - Frank Pais" which was headquartered at Mayari Arriba [La Sierra Cristal]. Davy usually landed at the "Calabasas" dirt strip, and one time had to leave his "Stagger Wing" Beechcraft there -- and Sanjenis or Jorge Sotus later told him that with Batista B-26s & F-47s scouting around, it was claimed that they were forced to burn his bird. Next time in they showed him a melted recip/engine block, and said that was all that was left. ["Calabasa" is Spanyiddish for Pumpkin] Had Davy left the Presidential Palace once in a while, and gone to the Ciudad Libertad Airbase in Marrianao, Capt. Paul J. Hughes would have shown him his Beechcraft -- with a brand new Rebel Air Force paint job, parked by the control tower. Diaz Lanz had flown it in, and had Capt. Evans Rosales get it painted. However, Davy was "too" close to "interim" President Judge Manuel Urrutia, and was asked to leave Cuba when "Da Judge" fell out of favor with Fidel. [Christy fondly remember Marrianao, a "burb" of La Habana] I've never had the heart to tell Davy about his beloved Beechcraft !! Maybe he should sue -- they sell for $300,000 now ??!! And you have read the already public technique for using the "Merida Switch" -- which I briefed Krulak, Cotrell, et al. on during Feb./ mar. 1963 -- in preparation for JFK's upcoming trip to San Jose Costa Rica. One of the demands to be made by JFK of Lopez Mateos was that ALL travelers to Cuba via Mexico would be photographed and fingerprinted at both Mex. D.F. and Merida, because some "Progressives" were also using the "Merida Switch" to bypass being identified at Mexico City. Maybe you should have spent your girly-men magazine allowance on buyring REAL books and documents !! I am not going to tutor you on much of what is already on the web and/or has been at College Park for years !! Where was LHO coming from ?? Well, dipsy-doodle -- Weberman got that 10 years ago -- don't you read his "Nodu-Rhoids ??!! He had been picked up by Rorke & Sullivan at "an undisclosed location" near either N.O. or Beaumont, Tex-Ass !! Go on back to Wim, why don't you. Why is it these Trolls can't ask a civil question without including libelous accusatory statements -- or are you a Weberman lackey hoping to launch a fishing expedition by libeling somebody ??!! GPH ______________________

I don't understand the distinction that would explain why Second Naval Guerrilla members would be anti-Artime, given his position with that operation. There is also the above distinction between DGI and Escalante. So it was the same Batistianos who had caused such disruption at Camp Trax, who had too easily and quickly surrendered at the Bay of Pigs after hiding their weapons, and who had collaborated with the DGI to obtain better treatment in custody that were somehow opposed to Artime? And it is particularly this clique, as opposed to the actual Artime clique, that has David Talbot's ear on these matters? It's the Roberto San Martin clique rather than the Bernardo de Torres clique? Why would Angelo be treated as a V.I.P. by Castro and his generals? Why would he be reinstated as a Citizen of the Republic of Cuba? Is it some kind of twisted Hemingwayesque sportmanship, the love and mutual respect for one's foe? Or is there some actual, more sinister relationship underlying the exile community's repudiation of Angelo Murgado? Tim Carroll -------------------------- Jesus H. TIM: The "Exile Cmmunity" repudiating Angelo ??!! GET A LIFE !! He is their hero !! It is the Batistiano xxxxs who [as a distinct minority] who have moved against Duran, Menoyo, Murgado, et al. THINK LAD !! The "Exile Community" is composed of 80% "latecomers'" [batistiano Term] who came out post-BOP, Camarioca, "Freedom Flights", Mariel, and Rafters [balseros] -- NOT Batista trash. What enraged them about Freddy Duran was that his step-father, Batista's President of the Cuban Senate, constitutionally [Cuban 1940 Consitution] took power [for 2 days] after Batista "rabbited out" on Jan. 1st 1959. Anselmo, Anita, Freddy, Anselmito, Rosa, et al. took asylum in the Brazil Embassy. Upon their arrival in Miami, where they had extensive properties, Anselmo immediately employed Howard K. Davis, et al. to begin flight snatching out some of the other ex-Batista VIPs. However, Juan Orta and CIA asset June Cobb (Fidel's "Gringa secretary, under Celia Sanchez) worked up a scheme to ambush the flights landing on highways such as the "Via Blanca east of Havana". One who wasn't killed in these set-ups was Bill Shergales, who was eventually bailed out of El PrincipePrison (Cellmate with Martino) by Alliegro's money being used to bribe the Nat'l Police Chief, Cmdte. Almeijeras ("El Fumador" -The "weed" Smoker). Now you are going to further impugn Angelo because he and others were respected a apolitical warriors ??!! "SCREW YOU, SISTER !!" I don't understand the distinction that would explain why Second Naval Guerrilla members would be anti-Artime, given his position with that operation. There is also the above distinction between DGI and Escalante. So it was the same Batistianos who had caused such disruption at Camp Trax, who had too easily and quickly surrendered at the Bay of Pigs after hiding their weapons, and who had collaborated with the DGI to obtain better treatment in custody that were somehow opposed to Artime? And it is particularly this clique, as opposed to the actual Artime clique, that has David Talbot's ear on these matters? It's the Roberto San Martin clique rather than the Bernardo de Torres clique? Why would Angelo be treated as a V.I.P. by Castro and his generals? Why would he be reinstated as a Citizen of the Republic of Cuba? Is it some kind of twisted Hemingwayesque sportmanship, the love and mutual respect for one's foe? Or is there some actual, more sinister relationship underlying the exile community's repudiation of Angelo Murgado? Tim Carroll -------------------------- Jesus H. TIM: The "Exile Cmmunity" repudiating Angelo ??!! GET A LIFE !! He is their hero !! It is the Batistiano xxxxs who [as a distinct minority] who have moved against Duran, Menoyo, Murgado, et al. THINK LAD !! The "Exile Community" is composed of 80% "latecomers'" [batistiano Term] who came out post-BOP, Camarioca, "Freedom Flights", Mariel, and Rafters [balseros] -- NOT Batista trash. What enraged them about Freddy Duran was that his step-father, Batista's President of the Cuban Senate, constitutionally [Cuban 1940 Consitution] took power [for 2 days] after Batista "rabbited out" on Jan. 1st 1959. Anselmo, Anita, Freddy, Anselmito, Rosa, et al. took asylum in the Brazil Embassy. Upon their arrival in Miami, where they had extensive properties, Anselmo immediately employed Howard K. Davis, et al. to begin flight snatching out some of the other ex-Batista VIPs. However, Juan Orta and CIA asset June Cobb (Fidel's "Gringa secretary, under Celia Sanchez) worked up a scheme to ambush the flights landing on highways such as the "Via Blanca east of Havana". One who wasn't killed in these set-ups was Bill Shergales, who was eventually bailed out of El PrincipePrison (Cellmate with Martino) by Alliegro's money being used to bribe the Nat'l Police Chief, Cmdte. Almeijeras ("El Fumador" -The "weed" Smoker). Now you are going to further impugn Angelo because he and others were finally given respect as apolitical warriors ??!! "SCREW YOU, SISTER !!" GPH ________________________

Have you any evidence that Frank Wisner was murdered? As you probably know, he died in the same way as Phil Graham. Both Wisner and Graham were key figures in Operation Mockingbird who were suffering from depression at the time of their deaths. Both were former idealists who felt very guilty about the deaths they had caused by their propaganda campaigns. This included the CIA encouragement of the Hungarian Uprising in 1956. Both were heavy drinkers who were talking too much about their covert activities. One thing is clear, they were both dangerous men when they found themselves on their own, in their holiday homes, with a loaded shotgun at their side. ------------------------ Suffice it to say that I visited Frank, Sr. while he was in the hospital near Baltimore during 1958, and he wasn't there due to any "depression" !! Frank, Jr. has left the State Dept. and is in the private sector now, has looked into some of the facts, but I'm not about to cause the family further grief by going into any of the aspects of his, Phil's, or others who were "suicided" -- and BTW: the "usual suspects" were not CIA moles, but illegal G.R.U. operators roaming CONUS at will !! Chairs, GPH __________________

This is based on information from a journalist who is working on an article about Murgado's claim. I am especially eager to see what David Talbot has to say about the RFK-Artime relationship, which is at the core of understanding the Cubela operation, as well as the current Mellen-Murgado allegations. Tim ---------------------- Tim: Unfortunately the distinguished founder of the pereanaly [note anal ??] buck$ losing salon.com [Talbot] has been steered to characters who were NOT part of Artime's alleged "clique", but in real life were members of 2nd Naval Guerrilla -- and/or were found to be prior "Artime-haters" while they were imprisoned on the Isle of Pines ["Youth ??] post-Playa Giron [b.O.P.]. These characters despised Artime for having been a Castro INRA official in Oriente, and that somehow this non-combatant [in the Sierra Maestra] was made a "political commissar" [soviet Style] within the BA2506 chain-of-command and pre-B.O.P. !! The majority of these whiners were, and still are ardent Batistianos -- and current allies of the Diaz Balart, Ros Lehtinen, and ostracized Mas Canosa element which applauded the recent tightening of the criminal [war crime] embargo against the Cuban people !! The former spokewoman for the Cuban American Foundation, Ninotchska Perez, was ousted by the late Mas Canosa's son, and this was primarily due to her unflagging support and involvement in the several recent and even the long ago attempts upon Fidel Castro's life. [viz: the Coast Interception of the yacht off of Puerto Rico, where several Barrett .50 cal. long range sniper weapons were stashed onboard. And the Mas Canosa funding [via Ninotchka] of the "Bambi" Posada attempt on Fidel in Panama. Check again the pages of Gaeton Fonzi's "Last Investigation", especially wherein he and Joe Gonzales [NYPD on loan to HSCA] are surveilling a "Botique", and that they are unexplainably soon and unexplicably "ordered" to cease said surveillance. Well, we also had the same "Botique" under surveillance, and Fonzi & Joe will recall me going in and out of there with Bernardo de Torres, during several meetingss there. Who ran the "Botique" - Aha !! "Benny's" girlfriend, one Ninotchka Perez. And what were the meetings inside said Botique about ?? The ploting of the assassination of the president of the Dominican Repupublic, Jaoquin Balaguer. I explained to "Benny" that my teams, including Angelo Kennedy were busy "hauling hay" and thus making big buck$ -- and youse guys anin't got the kind of money that will divert their attention to your scheme at this time -- Adios "Mo-Fo" !! ['Nam vets say "Alpha-Mike-Foxtrot"] [NOTE: Ninotchska is now the wife of Roberto San martin, the same clown who landed at Casilda [Trinidad, Las Villas Province & and the original site for the BOP landing] in a DomRep Air Force C-46 [July 1959]. This occured during the famous "Morgan/Menoyo" doublecross of the vaunted "Generalissimo". I was there, and standing near Fidel as this dumb-ass pilot landed the plane. Fidel cheered the "liberators" as they disembarked from the aircraft, and it was quite a few minutes before these "rebels" recognized this shadowy cheer-leader as Fidel. And who was the only stupid son-of-a-bitch who refused to surrender, opened fire -- and caught a couple of bullets up his ass -- Guess who ?? Ninotchska's beloved Roberto !! And who got the stiffest sentence at the trial ?? Roberto !! And who was mysteriouly released before serving out said sentence, and is suspected of being a current D.G.I. "snitch" ?? Wait for it !! You got it -- ROBERTO SAN MARTIN !! Strange that Roberto is assisting the phony "Artime" clique in their interviews, Eh Wot old chap ??!! Some of Angelo's detractors are the very same ex-batistianos who were plotting to assassinate Balaguer. The same Batistianos whom caused problems for ALL of the former Fidel rebel army members training in the camps at "Base Trax" [JM/TRAX]; and the same Batistianos who, after landing at Playa Larga, stashed their weapons, stripped their cammy shirts off, and cowardly surrendered to the Castro militia. These same Batistiano "Brigade 2506 Heroes??" objected to Angelo running the BA2506 training camps during the 1980s, but De Torres intervened and vetoed their sniveling & whining !! Recently, it was this same clique of COWARDS being interviewed by Talbot and others [These collaborators with DGI while held as POWs during '61 -'62]; and despite that Artime was especially maltreated by the Castro guards, they were treated to goodies and better living conditions. This caused some of them to be denied the opportunity to go to Fort Benning Officer Candidate School during 1963. None of these COWARDS served [or even volunteered] to fight the Sandinistas during 1978-'79, and primarily due to Somoza's [and Reboso's] suspicions that they were much too close to Mariano Faget, who was the ex-JM/WAVE prime debriefer of VIPs fleeing Cuba [at his Opa-Locka Air Port Hangar Office] -- and if the name Marianno Faget doesn't ring a bill: check out the Bastista Communist Repression "Bureau" [of torturers and murderers] !! Also note that Faget was recently convicted of being a D.G.I. spy while in the employ of the U.S. Goverment, and is currently serving a lengthy prison sentence !! Those same cowards "OUSTED" Angelo [their feeble ultimate revenge] from "The Bay of Pigs Brigade Association" upon learning that when he visited Cuba a while back, he was treated as a V.I.P. and a brother, by the now retired Castro General's who had fought against Angelo and his BA2506 brothers at Playa Giron. They invited him to return and live out his life there, in the same comforts as those retired Fidel Generals !! He opted for Mexico instead, but we shall see !! Alfredo Duran and a few others were similarly "blacballed from the BA2506 Association, especially because Fidel reinstated them as Citizens of the Republic of Cuba. BTW, these so-called "close to Artime fools" were constantly under suspicion as being Castro spies. I won't go into the extensive Intel files shown to Angelo whilst in Havana, but suffice it to say: that the DGI/G-2 F.A.R. types were not associated with Fabian Escalante. Do Talbot's, et al. "Artime" informants fear being "outed" soon -- well some may be getting on the plane to Havana right now [via Chalk Air to Nassau] !! Chairs, GPH ___________________________

Cleveland Cram, the son of a farmer from Waterville, was educated at St. John's University, a Benedictine in Minnesota. He obtained a master's degree in history at Harvard University before joining the United States Navy. He served in the South Pacific during the Second World War. After the war Cram returned to Harvard for his Ph.D. He intended to become an academic but in 1949 was recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency. In 1953 he was sent to work in London where he got to know Kim Philby. In 1958 Cram returned to head office where he ran the British desk. This was followed by a second spell in England before serving as chief of station in Canada. Cram was appointed Deputy Chief of Station in Europe. After nine years he became Chief of Station in the Western Hemisphere. He retired from the CIA in 1975. The following year he met George T. Kalaris and Ted Shackley at a cocktail party in Washington. Kalaris, who replaced James Angleton, as Chief of Counterintelligence, asked Cram if he would like to come back to work. Cram was told that the CIA wanted a study done of Angleton's reign from 1954 to 1974. "Find out what in hell happened. What were these guys doing." Cram took the assignment and was given access to all CIA documents on covert operations. The study entitled History of the Counterintelligence Staff 1954-1974, took six years to complete. As David Wise points out in his book Molehunt (1992): "When Cram finally finished it in 1981... he had produced twelve legal-sized volumes, each three hundred to four hundred pages. Cram's approximately four-thousand-page study has never been declassified. It remains locked in the CIA's vaults." Cram continued to do research for the CIA on counterintelligence matters. In 1993 he completed a study carried out on behalf of the CIA's Center for the Study of Intelligence (CSI). Of Moles and Molehunters: A Review of Counterintelligence Literature was declassified in 2003. The declassified document gives us some idea of what Cram discovered about James Angleton. Cram praises certain authors for writing accurate accounts of these covert activities. He is especially complimentary about the following authors: David C. Martin (Wilderness of Mirrors), Gordon Brook-Shepherd (The Storm Birds), Andrew Boyle (The Climate of Treason), David Wise (Molehunt) and Thomas Mangold (Cold Warrior). Cram points out that these authors managed to persuade former CIA officers to tell the truth about their activities. In some cases, they were even given classified documents. He is especially critical of the work of Edward J. Epstein (Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald and Deception: The Invisible War Between the KGB and the CIA). Cram makes it clear that Epstein, working with James Angleton, was part of a disinformation campaign. Cram writes: “Legend… gave Angleton and his supporters an advantage by putting their argument adroitly – if dishonestly – before the public first. Not until David Martin responded with Wilderness of Mirrors was an opposing view presented coherently.” Cram is particularly complimentary about the Wilderness of Mirrors. He points out that Martin does “not name his sources, footnote the book, or provide a bibliography and other academic paraphernalia” but is invariably accurate about what he says about the CIA. Cram adds that luckily Martin’s book did not sell well and is now a collectors item. However, it was republished by the Lyons Press in 2003. I have got a copy and it is indeed a fantastic book. It includes this passage which I think is highly significant in terms of the investigation of the JFK assassination. How could the KGB even dream of pulling off so convoluted a scheme? "Helms and I have talked about this many times," a high-ranking officer said. "I do not believe that any son of a bitch sitting in Moscow could have any conception that he could dispatch Golitsin here and disrupt the Allied intelligence services to the extent he did. Nobody could have expected Angleton to buy it, lock, stock, and barrel." And no one sitting in Moscow could have predicted with any certainty that Nosenko would be fingered as a plant and thereby build up Golitsin. Furthermore, it seemed incredible that the KGB would entrust to an agent whose mission was to be discovered as a fraud the message that the Soviet Union had not had a hand in Kennedy's death. Such a plot could only fuel suspicions of Soviet complicity. It was true that Angleton's counterintelligence staff, although convinced that Nosenko was lying, had concluded that there was no evidence to support the contention that Oswald was working for the Russians when he killed Kennedy. But surely the KGB could not control the workings of the counterintelligence staff with so fine a hand. Could not - unless they already had a man inside the counterintelligence staff who could influence the handling of the case. Who controlled the counterintelligence staff? Who had directed the handling of both Golitsin and Nosenko, championing Golitsin, denigrating Nosenko, yet stopping short of the conclusion that the KGB had ordered Kennedy shot? Who but James Jesus Angleton? Such a case had indeed been outlined. It had the attraction that all conspiracy theories possess. It provided a cause commensurate with the effect. "The effect of Golitsin was horrendous," a chief of the Soviet Bloc Division said, "the greatest disaster to Western security that happened in twenty years." Now, for the first time, the possibility arose that the entire fiasco was not a self-inflicted wound but the work of an infernal Soviet machination. Who better to cast as the villain than Angleton himself? Two men who had headed the Soviet Bloc Division at different times, neither aware that an effort had been made to develop a case against Angleton, would make the same point in almost identical terms. "If I were to pick a Soviet agent at the Agency, it would be Angleton for all the harm he's done," said one. "There is just as much reason to say Angleton could be the guy because he has done so much to be destructive," said the other. Popov, Goleniewski, Penkovsky, Golitsin, Nosenko. Everything that had gone wrong could plausibly be traced to Angleton. Complexity became simplicity. With Angleton as the mole, the KGB could dispatch any number of false defectors confident that they would be handled according to plan. "He is the guy who is perfectly placed," one of the Soviet Bloc chiefs said. "He's even better to have than the Director." The Soviets had penetrated the counterintelligence operations of the British with Kim Philby and of the Germans with Heinz Felfe. Why not the CIA with Angleton? ------------------------------ John: When my brother read some of this same crap, he advised me to "distance myself" from JJA. I reminded him that during my visit with Vic Marchetti during 1963, I had queried Vic as to who was the "7th Foor" Soviet Mole ??"!! And I specifically inquired as to the whether his "suicided" character in his novel "The Rope Dancer" was indeed Frank Wisner, Sr. -- who had in fact been murdered. Vic was very reluctant to go into any of his suspicions reference moles or murder/suicides. That same evening I went toTyson's Corner for a chat with JJA. He wanted me to go back and press Vic for answers, and reminded me that Vic was involved in even further revelations about such matters while writing a book with another expert. I responded that this was above my [none] "page grade", and I knew that Vic wasn't about to delve further into said matters. JJA knew that I had flown with Cram's brother in the Marines, and stated that he had spent time with Jack and heard some worrisome tales from him. I responded as to who the hell was Cram's brother, and why the hell would I approach a senior Marine officer on such matters. "...Besides Sir...I understand that 'Internal Affairs" type folks are always 'worrisome'...to the point of paranoia...and that is why they are hated...especially in police departments..??!!" He practically threw me out of the house. Later I learned that while Cleveland was COS [or interning as COS] in Ottawa, he had access to the Espaillat, Johnson, RCMP, FBI Legat files which showed that this clique in Montreal [1962-1963] had some kind of interest in Dallas during late 1963. Much later JJA said that this was exactly why he had asked me to speak with Cram's brother. By then I had some [very few] pieces of that puzzle, and I told him that I wasn't about to fool around with a "cabal" which included the terrorist FLQ "Felquiste", the R.I.N., the OAS "secret Army", Skorzeny, Gehlen, O.D.E.S.S.A., and the "Union Corse" -- in fact there was no "pay-grade level" that would ever get into that kind of crap. Of course, and despite Vic Marchetti having written the first geniune expose of the CIA, and moreover, that his "pre-censorship" case went to the U.S. Supreme Court -- he is now labled an anti-Semite due to some inadvertant scribblings, but primarily as a result of his affiliation with Willis Carto. Talk about McCarthy-ism arising ONLY from the right-wing !! GIVE-ME-A-BREAK !! Chairs, GPH __________________________

Hi Gerry, yep its the same Larry from your email list...couldn't seem to add this in the correct thread so I'll put it here. .....to clarify a bit, what I have in my possession are the transcripts from a tape recorded session with Roy and and your brother. The transcript seems to cover the arrangements for the taping and the agreement for the interview with Roy.... the transcript was provided by Noel Twyman who related to me the circumstances and fee arrangement for the interview etc. If there is any spoofing being done it would have to be directly from Noel who holds the tapes of the interviews and the transcripts. Do I understand that you or Roy's family have made legal representations to Noel Twyman over this material? Is it true that Roy did not encourage Noel to publish material from the interview in a new edition of his book as the transcript relates? -- Larry ------------------------------ Larry: I haven't spoken with Noel in years, in fact many researchers told me he had died. One suggested that he might have joined with a 2nd "Heavens Gate" trek to the great UFO hiding behind comets in the northern skies. As you know, the 1st H.G. "Trekkers" were neighbors of his, who had leased a palatial home in the closed compound "Rancho" community north of San Diego. I warned my brother to discreetly advise Noel that: after the "controlled" interviews, Roy, always the hustler, would attempt to bilk the old man out of a large chunk of buck$ in the near term. He began this very scheme within weeks of the final interviews at my brother's law offices. He was so sure of his abilties at inventing some new Dealey Plaza confabulation, he asked my brother to contact a family member -- who was then a Florida prosecutor, engineer an attempt to quash the warrants, enter a nolo contendere plea -- which would be based upon his swearing to re-imburse the thousands of dollars he wrote bad checks on. Perhaps he indeed "spoofed" Twyman out of considerable cash, I don't know; but his newly found Mings family heard him boast oftentimes of this fait acompli !! Roy was heavily addicted to Heroin, and frequently drank to excess, so most of the family ignored his boasting. Others were shocked and dismayed that he would go along with Twyman's fervent agenda of placing both Felipe Vidal Santiago and he on the scene that day. Moreover, others were stunned that he failed to name one of his sons after Felipe, as I did. It was soon apparent that Felipe had been conned just as bad as Rosemarie Vernell had been. Twyman's strange impetus against Felipe began with Escalante's bullxxxx stories in nassau. [Many thought it was strange that an engineer who retired from the CIA controlled Bechtel Corp. would scribble a JFK conspiracy tome while approaching his senior 70s] Rosemarie Vernell was a CIA asset who infrequently penetrated the RFK/JFK millieu during 1962. While the "2nd Unit" of the movie production company was filming "PT-109" at a locale just south of No Name key; "Dutch" Henry [2nd Unit Director] sent Ms. Vernell to No name asking us to lunch on the set. Once there, "Dutch" asked us to honor our pledge to RFK that we would not hijack the 2 ex-coast guard ASR-81 boats which had been converted to resemble WWII PT Boats. He further stated that, however: once the film was "in the can" it wouldn't be bad publicity if said "PT Boats [both painted with bow numbers "109" actually were "hijacked" and used on a raid into Cuba. RFK didn't think that was very funny. Rosemarie's brother, Louis Vernell, was an aide to Meyer lanskey. and was in and out of trouble [and the press] into the 1980s. Hargraves opted to abandon No name, and thereafter "shack-up" with Rosemarie at the Alqazar hotel on Biscayne Blvd. -- where she was the boss P.R. person. Roy serviced her and was paid to write poetry [some of it good] which was placed with the napkin holders on the dining room tables. I actually spent a few freebies there, but due to the "Crisis" crap -- I had business elsewhere. Hargraves was banished forever from No Name soon, and he was labled "A Poet and City Commando" by Whatley and others. When he made one attempt to return to No name, Whatley invited him to a duel, Dick's "Arkansas Toothpick" [large Bowie Knife - which he threw very expertly] versus Roy's unholstered .45 Colt. [This was long before "Magnificent 7" and Coburn's famous knife bit]. Bobby Willis stood as "second" [as the sun went down", and held a pistol at his side to take out Roy if he won. Little Joe Garman had his Springfield "03" pointed at the back of Bobby's head to prevent said retaliation. Jim Lewis had a carbine pointed from the shadows at little Joe. I had a cocked "Tommy Gun" with a full 30 round magazine; declared the duel as a draw, and placed hargraves on a boat "out-of-Dodge" !! I am in very infrequent contact with Roy's daughter & Son-in-Law, but he is learned in the law; and sure as hell will not permit his kids grandfather to be portrayed as a DP participant. Moreover, he has a degree in computer engineering -- is a skilled "hacker-hunter'; and therefore knows how to arrange the full panoply of DOS, worm, keylogger, trojan, etc. operations. Moreover, he is extremely violent when aroused, as I witnessed when he almost beat a meter reader to death for spraying his dog with pepper spray. I doubt that if I learned of their intentions reference the matter, I would ever be inclined to disclose same. More importantly, I would take more serious precautions in this instance than I would ever in the case of even Bernardo de Torres. "Watch Your 6" is the byword to all concerned !! Saludos, GPH __________________________

------------------------------ Dave: Even into the 1970s, Martino was considered to be, and acted like, a compartmented operator, and earned the sobriquet of being a "Mushroom". Tom Purvis probably thought that most members wouldn't be interested in Googling "Son Tay Raid". On a couple of the S. T. Raider's websites you can find copies of their unofficial shoulder patch. One of the first stitched out by Thai seamstresses depicts a mushroom coupled with the letters "K.I.T.D.A.F.O.H.S.", which translates as: "Kept In The Dark And Fed Only Horse xxxx". A later patch shortened the number of letters. To gain more independence from Trafficante, he opted to continue spewing the J.B.S. line about LHO and Fidel. This made Pawley even more financially generous, and caused Santo to feel that his cover as a D.G.I. agent would be more secure from suspicious eyes. The only intelligence agency that ever had assets inside the Kremlin was the Mossad. From time-to-time they loaned some of these assets [temporarily] to the MI-6 and CIA, in that order. Mossad grew more cautious, reluctant and bitter after the CIA blew Colonel Oleg Penkovskiy's cover !! However, upon receipt of solid Intel that the G.R.U. was about to do a coup against Fidel during 1964, and that it would be coupled with the deposing of Khruschov -- the nascent D.I.A. and its newly created S.O.D., convinced the JFK folks that it was time to launch the embryonic Special Affairs Teams. "2nd Naval Geurrilla" was just one of many of the LRRP [pronounced "Lurp"] entities organized and waiting in the wings for 1964. Krulak, as S.A.C.S.A. was among the top echelon planners of the 1964 "counter-coup" planned for Cuba. Others included the fathers of the SF ["Green Berets"]: Col. Wendel L. Fertig, who ran WWII guerrillas on Mindannao, Philippines [who sent Wm. Gale Potter packing in disgrace (via submarine) to MacArthur's HQ in Australia]; Col. Donald Blackburn, leader of "Blackburn's Headhunter's", WWII guerrilla leader, U.S. Guerrilla Forces, North Luzon; Gen. Robt. Frederick, WWII creator and leader of "The Devil's Brigade" -- the Joint U.S./Canada 1st Special Service Force; Col. Aaron Bank, for years considered to be the "Father" of the Green Berets; a still young "Sammy" Vaughn Wilson, who was Gen. Frank Merrill's "point-of-the-spear" recon platoon commander of "Merrill's Marauders", et al. !! Most of the top echelon folks of the 1964 PB/----- project removed themselves from "E-Ring" at the Pentagon, "Foggy Bottom", Langley, Arlington Hall, 8th & "Eye, etc. to a secure location near Nag's head; especially for briefings. Bill Pawley's old credentials with the P.F.I.A.B. ["President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board"] brought him into the loop, and caused him to soften his bitterness over the "Bayo" Op betrayal. Santo encouraged Martino to seek out people on the periphery of the 1964 scheme, but in most cases Martino failed, and Santo's bona fides with "Barba Roja" Pineiro deteriorated. Later, Santo was doubled and used to oust the Corsican cartel from the Khun Sah "Golden Triangle" facilities -- turning them over to the Italian Mafia, but under the strict control of O.D.E.S.S.A. !! Sidebar: Martino suggested that me and my partner meet with a businessman in Central America. However, while we were enroute, the President's half-brother called and warned that we were to be murdered shortly after arrival. Martino quickly called the gentleman, told him that I had lead the Dealey Plaza teams, and that should he persist, the retaliatory strikes against him and his family would be swift and brutal. Just minutes prior to our arrival, he had gotten off of the telephone with "El Presidente", who also warned him against any fortuitous actions. Some years later, this businessman's Washington lawyer contacted the HSCA and informed them that his client was prepared to testify under oath that I had explained [in great detail] the minutea of the DP operation. Jack Anderson later wrote a column complaining about the U.S. Government's abuse of this man. This gentleman's case officer in D.C. was the same Carl ..... who had busted the "Watergate Bunglers"; and was a Bobby Inman asset -- along with Bob Woodward, and the young Navy "Admiral's Yeoman" !! A while before he died, Martino somehow received insights and clarifications of how he had been "used-for-years"; ergo a "Mushroom" !! He, like Dom Bartone [at the same time] begged us to take over the "business" and exact revenge agaaints the "Perps' !! Big problem was: we hadn't the first clue as to who the "perps" were, despite communal thinking that we were somehow elevated to the top of the food chain. Later, GPH _______________ NOTE: Gen. Samuel Vaughn Wilson, later a CIA Soviet Specialist, served as a consultant on the Jeff Chandler movie version of Ogburn's book -- "Merrill's Marauders". He took a sabatical from CIA and went to the Philippines for the filming of the movie. he was played by Jeff Hunter, and true to history -- played as the quasi-adopted son of Gen. Merrill. His young blond son was given an extensive speaking role in the movie. There were only 12 hollywood actors on location, the Marauders were played by Green Berets from the 1st Special Forces Group, Okinawa. The very talented Filipino niseai & Issei played the Jap soldiers. A simultaneous premier of the movie was held at the Marauders "Regimental Surgeon's" residence "Nha Pumgah", Greenbelt , MD. -- but Chandler was unable to join his fellow actors there at Dr. Lew "Abe" Kolodny's home. Gen. S. V. Wilson retired after serving as the Director, Defense Intelligence Agency. He now runs a small College in Virginia. Members of the Marauders Association help fund Comandos L, "our" Bayo Operation, and others. Moreover, they asked us to carry their "color" into combat in Cuba. They have sinced asked us to wear their shoulder patch on our right sleeves [combat patch]. After years of lobbying, we finally convinced the Pentagon and Congress that the Army urgently needed a full Ranger Regiment. The Marauders Battle Flag [Colors] were passed to the 75th Infantry Regiment, and finally, at Fort Benning, GA [1974] the 1st Batallion was mobilized. After a compromise, the Regimental Crest was a copy of the Marauders Patch; while their shoulder patch is the "Scroll" from "Darby's Rangers". -30- ------------------------------

---------------------------- Jesus H. CRIST Gratz, will you finally come clean and "fess-up" to being a quasi-Ashmann, Larry King-like, Liddy, John Dean, John Mitchell, et al. "BANISHED TO THE MOORS" shyster !! Think about it Lad. Fitzgerald might well give you a suite at the Madison Hotel whilst you "rat-out" Segretti-Libby; Segretti-Rove; Segretti-"Chains" Cheney; Segretti-Novak; and per-chance the Jedi-Master [baitor] Segretti-"Shrub" his-assself ??!! Fondly, GPH ____________________________

The three best sources on the Silvia Odio story are Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation (pages 108-116 and 250-259), Dick Russell, The Man Who Knew Too Much (308-311) and Tony Summers, The Kennedy Conspiracy (296-301 and 446-447). All three of these authors interviewed her and came to the conclusion she was telling the truth. G. Robert Blakey also points out that the House Select Committee on Assassinations also came to the conclusion that she was telling the truth (The Plot to Kill the President, pages 162-165). I agree that Silvia Odio is telling the truth. This is why: (1) Her story is corroborated by her sister, Annie Odio, who was in the apartment when they had the visit from Leopoldo, Angel and Leon Oswald. (2) The day after the visit Silvia received a phone call from Leopoldo. He told her that Leon was a former Marine and that he was an expert marksman. He added that Leon had said “we Cubans, we did not have the guts because we should have assassinated Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs”. (3) Silvia told the story of Leopoldo, Angel and Leon to her father Amador in a letter a few days after the meeting took place. The letter did not survive but his reply has. In it Amador confirms that she has good reason to be worried by these three men who are not known to him. (4) Silvia told her story to her psychiatrist, Dr. Burton Einspruch before the assassination took place. (5) It is also believed Silvia told her story to Father McChann, a Catholic priest in Dallas. Ssee William Kelly’s post on this here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5347 (6) Silvia and Annie both identified Lee Harvey Oswald as Leon when his photograph appeared on the television following the assassination of JFK. However, they did not go to the police with this information. Silvia’s sister, Sarita, told her friend Lucille Connell about these events. She in turn told a friend who passed this information onto the FBI. In her article for the Key West Citizen (2nd September, 2005) Joan Mellen claims that she is the first person in print to name Bernardo De Torres as Leopoldo. However, as long-term members will know, he was named on this Forum sometime ago. This information also appears on my webpage on Torres. Maybe that is why it was removed from the Goggle database for so long (it is now 1st out of 1,430,000 pages). http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtorres.htm Of course, I also name Edwin Collins and not Angel Murgado as Angelo. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcollinsE.htm My page on Silvia Odio is also ranked first out of 269,000 pages. I have placed a photograph of Bernardo De Torres and Edwin Collins taken in 1963. If she surfs the net she will no doubt come across this page and picture. Maybe she could contacts me and identify Leopoldo and Angel as Torres and Collins. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKodioS.htm ---------------------------- John: Let me get the script straight. I ( or WE) are puppets on a string attmepting to protect Beranrdo de Torres, despite having implicated him in the murders of Letelier, Torriente, et al. ??!! Now that Bill Seymour is back on the hook, and solely based on dubious amateur attempts at "imagery" [or stegano-imagery] we now revert to Weberman's 1970s limp attempt at matching the tramps with the [by then] "newly infamous Watergate bunglers" !! This was soon followed by a herd of sheep which raised up Harrelson, Holt, Alfred E. Neumann, Elvis, Judge Crater, et al. as solid candidates. [however, they left out the "Duke, Duke, of Earl" - a/k/a Jacko d' Ripper, you know, the General from Dr. Strangelove ??!!] O.K.: now let me see, WE are supposed to slink off into the darkness, having failed to "burn" RFK, LHO. J.U.R.E., Garrison, and assorted others -- using the nefarious device of this "alleged" Murgado's, bold and almost daily exhortations at Hyde park over the last 40+ years !! Or are WE being BAITED a-la Weberman into angry responses, and thereby feeding either the frenzy of "bookies" -- who have a constitutional right to know "EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYBODY" ??!!; or; are is it the exact opposite, to wit: some folks [or entities] want to shut us up -- so as to continue with these years of wasted efforts and inane prattling ??!! And should we challenge Mellen's "Girlish-Garrison-Groupie" love-diary, then we have most surely have "set-her-up-for-a-fall"!! And this even despite the fact she hates RFK for "NOT joining with Garrison in his "investigation??" the JFK murder ??!! And "other authors" who WERE about to use Murgado's INTEL -- these must not be the ones who were repeatedly told to "bugger off, mate" in a polite manner no less. Oh, I forget, Russo came to grief because he also was led "down-the-primrose-path" by this "over-zealously vocal "Angelo" ??!! OOOOPS !! I forgot, this is the same Angel/Angelo who "FAILED" to "come-forth" to -- let me think now -- Sissy Hoover ?; NOT -- Garrison?; NOT -- WC, HSCA, PIKE, Church, Tower, Rockefeller, Kerry, the Swiftboatsmen, COPA, Lancer, SFRG, Star Chamber, and/or The Mormon Tabernacle Choir ??!! Lest we forget, you are now in telepathic communications with Sylvia, Annie, and Sarah ("Sarita"); and upon discerning some Internet "Nat'l Command Authority" [discreet message]; they all will rush to the nearest Western Union, telegraph, telephone, keyboard, or smoke & drums signal outfit -- and transmt: "reporting in for duty". Thereby providing justification as to their "testimony", "interviews by thwarted investigators, scribblers, scriveners, et al. !! Thus, we are assured that a totally compartmented young lady, along with her threatened with deportation to Venezuela family, will continue to support a WC instigated [specter, Belin, Dulles, et al.] "cover-story" !! AND/OR keep the Kennedy Klan from any further erosion of the "Camelot Myth" !! Amazing that NOT ONE author, investigator, scribbler speaks, reads, nor writes in the Spanish language to this day Oh, by the way [or BTW for the PC literates]: J.U.R.E., you know, Spanish for "JUNTA" (Coalition) had representatives from: Alpha-66, which was [and still is today] comprised of former anti-Batista - viz: "26th of July" Rebel Army veterans who espoused "Fidelismo-sin-Fidel", and included Socialists such as Menoyo, Nazario Sargent, Fleites, et al. !! BTW: Menoyo has moved his "Cambio Cubano" operation back to offices in Havana. D.R.E., another "Fidelismo-sin-Fidel" Socialist student group created by Rolando Cubela out of the F.E.U./ 13th of March organization. 30th of November, then headed by former Communist Carlos Rodriguez Quesada. M.I.R.R., headed by former Communist anti-Batista leader Orlando Bosch. The partially defunct AAA organization, headed by former Communist Aureliano Sanchez Arango. Among those excluded from J.U.R.E. were: Former Communist labor leader: Eusebio Mujal [and his own "JUNTA"], and who had thrived in Cuba under former Communist fellow traveler's Batista, Grau, Prio, Diaz Balart (Fidel married their sister Mirtia), et al. !! Former Communist gang leader and Batista Senator, Rolando Masferrer. (Fidel had been a member of his Nazi/Commie gang during the late 1940s, that is until he got shortchanged financially after the Cayo Confites "Expedition?? FIASCO" !! The belated decision by Krulak, Sterling Cottrell, Roger Hillsman, et al. to push for TOTAL support of the ENTIRE left-wing [and newly formed J.U.R.E.] was made after Miami groups raised a furor about a "leaked" list of fresh anti-Castro leadership personalities. The biggest problem was: Nobody inside or outside of Cuba had ever heard of the names before. Prouty sided with Lansdale, Hurwitch, Goodwin, Schlesinger, et al. against this move to the "Left" -- McCone, Rocca, Halpern, et al. sided against the Helms clique -- and advised RFK/JFK to heavily INCREASE the funding of J.U.R.E. !! Meanwhile, final arrangements were being made to create and guide "2nd Naval Guerrilla" [hosted by Somoza & "Pepe" Figueres]. Oh, by the way --WE opposed Artime's "heating-up-the-south-coast-of-Cuba strongly. But they went on to sink patrol boats [isle of Pines/Youth, batibanao, Cayo Largo]; blow railway lines & bridges, burn sugar mills and fuel storage facilities, etc.!! Twice they used jet fighter-bombers in attacks near Santa Cruz del Sur [but the world laughed, exiles with jets -- come on bearded one!!] (The jets were "borrowed" from the "Confederate Air Force" collection at Harlingen, Texas, after refurbishing at M.A.S.D.I.C., Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tuscon, Arizona. The "after-action reports" -- put together by Cram, and later by Jack Pfeiffer; showed that during 1963 thru 1966, "2nd Naval G." did about 60% of the damage done by the French "Maquis"/F.F.I. during WWII !! Hardly a sham, or designed to fail operation. However, the more they did, the more we bitched to Goldwater, Thurmond, Fascell, Smathers, et al. !! Why, because it closed off infiltratration/exfiltration sites needed by Intel agents, especially those seeking to confirm or deny the continued presence of nukes on the island. Were these impediments by design ? By the White House [JFK/LBJ] ??!! Clue me in John, are WE to "fess-up" ?? "Make a clean titty of it" ?? Leave the herd of sheep to their fantasyland [and oftentimes financially rewarding] dreams of glory and truth ?? mayhaps go sniveling to Wim, so that he might commercialize some more phony "Tooshy/Files/Holt/Evis/Neverland" fables ?? I am so very sorry that the "pubic" taxpayers invested million$ into pre-scripted "fairy tales" about "faireys" and "Ferries" -- and that gullible innocents [some seeking 15 nano-seconds of fame] have purchased tons of "feeble-fables" which never have even come close to the actualities of events. In less than two weeks, the earnest crusaders for truth will once again gather together, sing "Kum-Bayah", and espouse even more outrageous extensions of the original WC cover-up. Of course, during recess, the "boss-crusaders" will once again set up their "flea-markets" -- and hawk their wares !! Remember, "...Backward..and to the left....Backward...and to the left...Backwar...!!" Jerry Seinfeld [the TV comedian] did a spoof of the "never-happened-during-the-Shaw-trial-Kostner-shtick"; and wherein Kramer Newman, et al. have been struck by a ball. He then lines them up and while poking them with a stick -- shows his "single-magic-ball-theory" wherein the missile changes flightpaths contrary to the laws of physics !! Shamefully, I howled so loud the neighbors came to my door. Truly now John, baiting is out of order, WE might elucidate more, or we might just stand back and sadly observe -- some guidance PLEASE !! Cheerio, GPH _______________________________________

What is so interesting is that a Forum provides dates and a chronology of the way information is released. The postings on this Forum will show that Robert Charles-Dunne, Pat Speer and myself were highly suspicious of Murgado’s story from the beginning. We were not alone. I also received emails from several other researchers who shared these views. My own view was this was part of a campaign to discredit Joan Mellen’s book. That it would be revealed later that Murgado was not telling the truth. I emailed Joan expressing these views. I also communicated them to two other authors who were working on books about the JFK assassination who intended to use Murgado as a source. According to Tim, Joan has two different versions of the Silvia Odio incident. One in the article and one in the book. The account in the article is consistent with Odio’s own account. The one in the book contradicts Odio’s account. In other words, the article exposes Bernardo De Torres as someone who helped set up Oswald. That is also my belief and this is reflected in what I had to say about him on my webpage. However, the revised story that appears on this Forum, provides an alibi for De Torres. According to the new story, De Torres was only playing a social visit and like Murgado did not know Oswald. The main beneficiary of this new story is Bernardo De Torres. I suspect that he is the true motivator behind this development. Bernardo De Torres is an interesting character. His name has rarely appeared in any book as being involved in the assassination. Donald Freed (Death in Washington, page 195) and Taylor Branch & Eugene Propper (Labyrinth, page 185) suggest he might have been involved in the killing of Orlando Letelier. Peter Dale Scott (Deep Politics, page 105) provides evidence that he had links to the CIA and the drug trade. William Turner (Rearview Mirror, page 143) points out he turned up as a disinformation agent in the Jim Garrison inquiry and that an informant told the HSCA that he was in Dallas on the day JFK was assassinated and had pictures of “Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box”. These points are also repeated in James DiEugenio article, Rose Cheramie” that appeared in The Assassinations (page 236). However, Bernardo De Torres was not looked at in any depth until the publication of Larry Hancock’s Someone Would Have Talked (pages 221-222). It was Larry who revealed that De Torres used the name of Carlos. If that is the case, is Bernardo De Torres the “Carlos” who appears in Gaeton Fonzi’s The Last Investigation (232-241)? Rolando Otero told Fonzi that Carlos was posing as a photographer in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963. Otero also claimed that Carlos was one of a five men team from Miami who assassinated JFK. Fonzi claims that Carlos was linked to Frank Sturgis and Gerry Hemming via the Anti-Communist Brigade. He also had links to Ken Burnstine, a South Florida real estate developer and Mitch WerBell, the arms dealer. Fonzi also points out that Carlos turned up in New Orleans to volunteer their services in Jim Garrison’s investigation. Fonzi adds that the HSCA discovered that the CIA planted a number of agents on Garrison’s staff. Another informant, Ten-One, claimed that Carlos and an associate fitted the description of “Angel” and “Leopoldo”. However, G. Robert Blakey stopped Fonzi from showing the picture of Carlos and his friend to Silvia Odio. Carlos received a subpoena to testify before the HSCA. What Carlos did not know was that his telephone calls were being monitored. When these were checked it was discovered that one of his first calls after receiving the subpoena was to McLean, Virginia. ------------------------------------- Larry: This is the same Larry who has exchanged e-mails with me over many years ?? I will make this short and unsweetened. I'm sorry that you've been spoofed by some phony Hargraves/Twyman transcripts, etc. !! I arranged for the interviews,and set ALL of the rules that would be adhered to. The agreement was that ALL interviews would be held ONLY at my brother's law offices; would be recorded both by tape and paid outside & certified court reporter (Steno) who would execute a sworn & notarized statement (Affidavit) that she had not only NOT ever worked for my brother, but had never even been to the offices prior thereto. ALL present at every session agreed that attorney/client privileged had been invoked, as Hargraves still feared a murder charge in California. Said homicide allegation centered on the Black Panther (FBI-MH/Chaos informant) who later died of burns subsequent to being blown out through a plate glass window by Roy "Baby Bomber" Hargraves IED. [Hargraves was christened as "Baby Bomber" after the Miami News whined that Luis Balbuena's young child had been in the rear bedroom when Hargraves and "Bayo's" dynamite/hand grenade exploded on the front porch. Balbuena, known as "Gordo" was a DGI agent who penetrated the ONI operations at GITMO, and thereafter compromised several of "Bayo's" missions. Balbuena caused the arrest and courtsmartial of two Marine officers who were later convicted of killing a suspected DGI agent on the navy base. Said deceased/victim? in actuality was Balbuena's prime DGI corier at GITMO, and confessed to same. That is: just before he escaped through the barbed wire, and was killed by Castro LCB troops while still inside the Castro minefield surrounding GITMO !!] At the time of Roy's interviews, we was a fugitive from justice [from Florida], "hiding-in-plain-sight" under his pre-adoptive birth name, Mings -- in Hemet, California. His daughter removed his hard-drive and recovered ALL journals with an hour of his death on Easter Sunday. As per stipulation: My brother holds ALL original materials, includings steno tapes and recordings. My brother is completely aware of the Weberman tactic of instigating a libel suit in order that the cause of action might serve as as a fishing expedition; mainly because we taught Weberman this tactic. It this matter it will fail, as there will never be any libel suits, however: there will, without a doubt, be grand jury subpoenas issued in abundance. "Carlos" was a "literary pseudonym" for Bernie, and was never used by anybody associated with the HSCA, CIA,YMCA, et al. !! I "outed" Bernie for the Letelier murder at a briefing held at DEA/HQ, Koger Center, Miami on a Sunday afternoon [1977]. De Torres "bailed" upon our arrival at the ATF parking lot, and ran away and telephoned Janet Reno at her home on Kendall Drive within the hour. Present at my DEA/HQ briefing were Eugene Propper (A/US-Atty, D.C.); Lawrence Barcella (A/US-Atty, D.C.); FBI S/A Carter Kornick; FBI S/A Kevin Walsh; Newsday reporter John Cummings (on deep background) and others. Propper, et al. had been ORDERED to fly to Miami for that briefing by two powerful Democrat Senators. I briefed on exactly (step-by-step) how the plot emerged, and up to the placing of the IED. Moreover, I explained that should they not ALL be fired from their employ within days of this briefing, somewhere down the line an 'OSWALD" would be surfaced. S/A Carter Kornick was the only person present who didn't laugh. ONE of the LHOs has been Michael Townley, who currently remains in the "Alias Program" [Witness Protection Program] !! Gene Propper opted to use "pseudos" for Bernie ["TB" & "Tomboy"] when covering classifed areas in his book "Labyrinth"; whilst Gaeton opted spontaneously [sua sponte] to employ "Carlos" and thereby not violate his HSCA N.D.A.s !! Don Freed tried his best writing "..Embassy Row"; and was not surprised to hear [during one of our telephone chats] that L.I.E.U. ("Chairman") Lt. Hendricks of the Long Beach Police Dept. had instructed Hargraves to set him up for a grenades/explosives "sting" arrest during 1968. So Larry, when to we get to see copies of these Hargraves forgeries. His surviving family is very much interested in same !! Chairs, GPH ____________________________

------------------------------ John: Lt. Carrier should be the guy that translates the technical stuff into layman's terms. However, I think that he stated that he was going to be very busy at work during the near term, and thus unavailable. As I said before, I never had the patience to get into the "gunsmithing & engineering" side of shooting; I just kept my weapons in shape, and made sure that all necessary prepping was done in order that I hit what I was "aiming at" !! During official shooting match competitions [both rifle and pistol], as opposed to "basic" or annual requalification -- there are mobile trailers & tents where one finds an assigned Master Gunsmith or two. These folks do repairs and minor modifications on our issued weapons. However, most, when on duty or during their free time, spend an ernormous amount of time designing, engineering, and radically modifying weapons. Many of these folks have gone commercial, and you can find their unique and very advanced firearms products in all hunting, fishing, adventure and shooting publications. Especially in the case of Marine recruits, their first experience at seemingly getting "shot at' is when working the "Butts". These are the pits where guys and gals raise and lower the large wooden framed target holders. They stand and look up awaiting the appearance of a hole in their target. It sometimes takes 15 minutes of slow fire [500 yards range] before the "Butt" troops learn that the sonic crack belongs to their target, and not the one on either side. Before that, a Sergeant running the Butts and manning a field telephone will be heard screaming "...pull the goddamn target on # 12, etc. !!" Lo and befold, the recruit notices a little hole in the large paper target, inserts a 5 inch disc with a wooden peg through its center -- into the hole. The "Boot" now runs the target back up, and if the now marked hole is inside the target perimeter, raises a green disc on a long pole and centers it over the marking disc. That way, a shooter, even without a spotter scope can see whether he/she got a 5V or 5 "bullseye" or lesser scored shot -- which is then noted in the shooter's log book. [The first page of the log book gives the initial "Zero" of the weapon, that is: when it was first fired while "sighting-in"; but sometimes the "zero" (measured in clicks of elevation and windage at 300 yards) will change as the "cheek weld", eye distance, etc. factors change over time, even with the same weapon during the same week. Sometimes the loss of body fat or dehydration will cause the shooter to inadvertently change his firing "lock" or stance.] As you move from 500 yards down to the 300 yard line, etc. -- sometimes the "zero" is a click or two off, and mostly due to the fact that at 500 yards you were "off-hand" standing. At 300 yards you will fire kneeling and sitting, and this oftentimes causes a minor change in "Zero". Back to the butts: Very quickly the recruit learns to identify a close sonic crack and thus knows that a round has passed through or near his/her target. Therefore [and to avoid a boot in the ass by the kindly Sgt.] the target frame is quickly hauled down, disced, and flagged. The next shot means that you will have available a paper patch and a bowl with brush, containing a foul smelling [and tasting] glue which is "boiled" from cow's hooves, without removing cowxxxx turds from same. You pull the disc, punch it into the new hole [if there is one] and "mosty-riky-tik" -- slap the glue and patch over the first hole. Should the shooter be so unlucky as to miss the inside of the target, or the frame completely -- the butt-person raises aloft a long pole adorned with a bright red flag, which is gleefully wave to-and-fro in the most insulting fashion and seemingly screams: "...You missed...you stupid son-of-a-bitch..!!" The red flag is called "Maggie's Drawers", and the shame-faced shooter is required to enter a "0"/MD in his log book -- that is: just as soon as the Drill Instructor has finished beating him about the head and shoulders. A rifle scope is "bore-sighted". With a bolt action weapon, you pull the bolt out of the frame completely -- peer through the bore at your "zeroing" target, then shift your eyes to the scope and adjust same to the center of the target. A cheapo sight requires shimming, and this requires a gunsmith or talented range-master. With semi-auto rifle, you must use a "bore-scope", which is inserted into the chamber/magazine area and then used to center the bore on the target. Then the scope is adjusted. Silencers/suppressors: Using low velocity ammunition in a pistol, rifle or sub-machine gun [bullet velocity less than mach-1] means that the only sound heard is the clacking of the bolt, and small sounds made by the extraction, ejection, and re-feeding of subsequent rounds. Dampening can be accomplished, such that: from 10 feet away; not a sound is heard !! For instance, the Ingram M-10 came in 2 calibres, a subsonic .45 auto, and a supersonic 9 mm. In the field ["Burbs or Bush"] we carried coded magazines of sub-sonic and sonic 9 mm; and the choice was made depending upon how close the targeted person was, or proximity of bystanders or other security threats. A silenced high-powered rifle is NOT intended to be silent, but instead the tube causes any targets or bystanders, etc. to believe that the weapon is being fired from from a position at least 45 degrees off from actual site -- so everybody looks in the wrong direction !! Anecdotes: While demonstrating a totally silenced .22 cal. rifle, and while my partner stood at least 50 feet away firing without a suppressed weapon -- I, slightly to the rear, of a group of El Salvador Colonels; shot past them into the head of a pig -- and when the bodyguards panicked at the blood and brain splatter, they looked to my partner, but were confused totally in that he had his back to the pig. Yet its head continued to disintegrate. They only wised up when I said: "Ahem...Mis Coroneles...notice the smoke from my silencer and the shell casings at my feet...truly it was I who destroyed the pig...!! Thereupon a Colonel and one bodyguard xxxx their pants, and we moved away from the stench "most riky-tik" !! With Prez-General Somoza's half-brother ["Papa Chepe"] it was a similar demonstation. Only this time I had an M-11 (.380 cal.) inside our special attache-case model. Whilst Anselmito blazed away sans silencer in front of them, I emptied a full magazine out through the name-tag "gun-port" !! A minute later I pointed out that somebody must have noticed that a sand bag [45 degrees off] had been jumping around and disintegrating, and suddenly they were now curious as to what caused that. I placed the now open attache-case on the ground, and they slack-jawed gawked at the escaping smoke and the load of hulls inside the case. The bodyguards were fired on the spot, and jailed !! With Mario Sandoval Alarcon it was near the Everglades just short of Krome Ave., near a small lake. Anselmito and "Rolandito" Masferrer fired M-10s [.45 cal.] "across-their-bows", as they marveled at the fact that they were only hearing the buzzing sounds of Bees or deer flies !! At least 4 Secret Service Agents later claimed to have heard the Buzzing of bees in Dealey Plaza that tragic day !! While setting up the DalTex hide-site for Oliver Stone, I got into a loud argument with both Dale Dye and Stanley White, specifically about the fact that when considering the presence of people on the fire escape and adjacent windows -- IF any shot was fired, a silenced weapon had to be used !! Capt. Dale Dye, USMC (Ret.) and Detective Sgt. Stanley White (L.A. County Sheriff's Dept.) loudly insisted that I was wrong and that nobody used silencers in 1963 -- and besides, they don't work on rifles !! Stone listened as I explained that: OK, when short on silencers, a pro-operator will build a cardboard box, line it with empty egg cartons as inside sound proofing. and the muffling will give at least 75% silence and 45 degrees of diversion. [The box is designed to fold flat, and be carried under the arm] As we continued arguing, and while leaving the 2nd floor, Oliver said: "...While nothing is carved in stone yet, we have to insure that Garrison was aware of this between 1966-1967...or forget about it...!!" So much for Hollywood !! GPH _______________________

------------------------- Tom: I will use your #1 posting so that members don't have to re-scroll through all of that extensive research product contained in the follow-ups. During one of the luncheons at the "Petroleum Club" [or the "Texas Club"] in Dallas with Lester Logue, De Mohrenschildt joined us for coffee and made reference to me and Davy having met and briefed one of his relatives in Miami. He is Baron [whats-his-name] and was a leading member of the Miami JBS. He lived in an exclusive section of Coconut Grove, "The Landings" -- if I remember correctly. We both had been scheduled "by letter" to show BOP movies and/or pix, documents, or some such crap -- to the wealthy and politically connected JBS hierarchy. The day before the gathering in the "Grove", I asked Davy what was this crap about movies, etc. -- I thought that we were just going to give them insights on Comandos L, Felipe, Menoyo, et al. ??!! Davy said that he didn't know what the hell this was all about, but it was too late to back out -- so on with the original briefing "...and damn the torpedos !!" FOIA/PA reuests to FBI, etc. reference these folks was refused, and I just assumed that since one of the top-dog JBSers was later the Nixon appointed U.S. Attorney, they didn't want to go there with the "Grove" Baron and his nexus to De Mohrenschildt. Never seemed important at the time, save for the fact that one of those present at the briefing later asked us [during 1963] to meet with Morrisette (sp) who later was recorded as stating that JFK was being taken down with a rifle !! Anyway, we met with this KKK/Nazi clown, but refused to go inside the church to talk, because we suspected that is was bugged. No further contact with that asshole EVER !! Airborne, Gerry ________________________________

You may be right but it could of course be part of a disinformation campaign. One thing is clear, either Angel Murgado or Sylvia Odio is lying. If it is Odio who is lying, then it would appear that she might have been involved in some sort of conspiracy involving Lee Harvey Oswald. However, if Odio told the truth, then Angel Murgado and Bernardo de Torres were involved in an attempt to link the Junta Revolucionario Cubana (JURE) with Oswald and the assassination of JFK. Odio’s organization was a socialist group opposed to Castro. It was much hated by right-wing figures like E. Howard Hunt who feared that JURE would gain control of Cuba after Castro was overthrown. JURE was of course also very unpopular with right-wing anti-Castro exiles like Bernardo de Torres. If Odio is lying we have to ask the question why? Was she really part of a plot with Oswald to kill JFK? If Murgado is lying we have to ask the question why? We have known for sometime that Bernardo de Torres was in Odio’s apartment with Oswald. Murgado’s testimony claims that Torres was with him and that they were only paying a social call on Odio. This of course undermines the theory that it was Bernardo De Torres who was behind setting up Oswald and JURE for the assassination of JFK. The main beneficiary of this new evidence is Bernardo De Torres. If Murgado was indeed just paying a social call on Odio, why should then write to her father in prison expressing her concerns about her mystery visitors? -------------------------- "IF" Sylvia opts to clarify the "..writing a letter to her father about J.U.R.E. members...using a 'secret Captain Midnight style code ring'...handshake....codeword....Morse CW flatulance...??!!" GIVE ME A BREAK. Mail to prisoners in Cuba ?? Prisoners who had set up "Operation Pedro Pan"!! Prisoners who had been sentenced for harboring an assassin who tried to kill Fidel ??!! GET REAL !! Operators sent mail to Cuban military and Intel officials so as to "burn" them. Does anybody recall the famous KGB/GRU/MVD motto that: "A security service operative builds his career, promotions, and survival on the "bones" of his fellow agents". In more simpler terms: Bureaucrat pogues [especially here in the U.S.] constantly snitch & rat-out [inform] against their fellows to insure their continuing viability. We were fingered for having caused a few of Fidel's MOST loyal to be imprisioned and/or executed -- by just the letter technique, which was backed up by Habana Embassies cooperating in leaving Intel "litter" laying around for the [DGI] janitorial crew some evenings. However, we proved that other Intel pogues had "beat-us-to-the-punch" and they were the ones found culpable in sending some of said "innocents ??" to their ultimate fate. One thing guaranteed, the extremely rare letter to a prisoner, even if finally received, was: as in the U.S. system -- closely censored -- so if you want to entertain or inform the jailers, be sure to write. I don't remember if Weyl included Martino's reference to mail. But Flo was instructed to NEVER WRITE; unless she wanted to hear that he had "fallen down some stairs" AGAIN !! "Letters to prisoners !!" Jesus H..... Even the dumb-ass Cubans got wise to that baiting technique by 1962. AAARGH !! GPH _____________________________

Doesn't sound like you were too impressed by Fetzer's book!! Quite the contrary Len, I was laughing for days. --------------------------------- Shame ! Shame ! Youse guys don't give the whacko-wingnut conspiracy mongers "...any respect around this place..!!" [Rodney Dangerfield] I hope you don't go and upset one of my prime antagonists on this forum -- he has a nexus to a "muzik-biz" shop called "The Village Idiot". Maybe the poor girl should have instead hired the kind of stunt drivers who raced around le gran Paree in the movie "Ronin" -- but, then again "The Rich & Famous" have been notably too cheap to pay for genuine "executive protection" specialists. That might affiliate them with the "bloody mercs" !! You know, the kind of folks that go around spreading minefields under the cow turds and soccer fields [ooops, that's "football" across "The Pond"] Howza 'bout dat, GPH ______________________

Tim, if you're trying to turn Gerry into a Republican, I suspect you'll have to kiss a bit more fanny than that. As to Gerry's last post, did I get that right? Gerry, are you saying that Oswald was dropped off in Merida by Rorke/Sullivan, and that Mann and Scott knew about it?? If so, when was this uncovered? Before or after the assassination? Since Mann was the top man in the U.S. Government pushing for the Castro did it scenario, does this mean Mann assumed Rorke and Sullivan were sold out by Oswald and killed by Castro's forces? What, if any, is the connection between the disappearance of the Rorke/Sullivan flight and the Kennedy assassination? Big questions I know. Answers of all shapes and sizes appreciated. ----------------------------------- Pat: It is unfortunate that virtual laurels and flowers are being cast in my path at this time, and moreover; that some are coming via private e-mails and telephone calls from those very family members, including kids and grandkids of people who paid with their lives while seeking some of the Intel which has emerged on these matters over the last 40+ years. I will NOT be a party to "throwing-it-back-in-their-faces" tactics against those who have challenged me, questioned my veracity, motives, personal agenda, etc. !! Be they witting or unwitting agent provacateurs [Trolls?], or just the disagreeable kind of folks present in the very FEW free and open societies on this planet. No one should treat ANY "information" as "Actionable Intelligence" until it has been put to a more complete analysis -- or as Tom Purvis put it (paraphrasing): "...Information is NOT Intel until it has been put to through many necessary steps which prove its verity..." [Peer review is oftentimes used]. Over the years I frequently annoyed Congress-persons (and their staff & investigators); military folks; Intel folks; reporters, authors, writers, scriveners and scribblers -- by my continual referral to "WE". A few would demand: "....Just who the hell are these WE ??!!" Oftentimes, if I then did respond, I would simply state that I am not the "Lone Ranger" in this matter, many others may eventually be credited; but now, if there is to be any faulting -- I stand alone as the principal if anything falls short or goes wrong !! When Dick Russell's Argosy Magazine article appeared during early 1976 titled as: "CIA man [agent?]- whatever]..Tells All...!!" I really got it from the Cubans [especially those former Rebel Army warriors] who had for years heard my bitter denunciations of the CIA, and many other government entities. "...So...my Gringo amigo...you were CIA all along...just as our own "Company" case officers told us you were, but we argued against them....and now it is clear that you were decieving us all along...!!" Nevertheless, the CIA hasn't hesitated [via FOIA/PA] to "disgorge" dozens of documents which state that I [and WE] consistently claimed "affiliation with KU/BARK" -- something that if true; would surely have resulted in our deaths at the hands of very bitter and extremely dangerous individuals and entities !! WE had the privilege and honor of getting the finances, arms, explosives, weapons, and maritime equipment for Tony Cuesta, Ramon Font, Bayo, "Lilo" et al. during the "Missile Crisis" of '62. Senior warrior Santiago Alvarez [along with his son and colleagues) supplied the "Alisan" as mother ship. Our initial agreement was that we would NOT "heat-up" the north coast of Cuba by sending in "raider-mission" commandos, as this would interfer with our "commercial-bartering Ops" with Fidel's fishermen, coast guard, borderguards, and militia. Worse, it would provide substance for Castro's increased demands for sophisticated patrol vessels. [As expected, Cuba received more P-4 & P-6 MTBs (Motor-Torpedo-Boats) including the fearsome "Ossa" MTBs armed with "Styx" surface to surface missiles] which were falsely alleged to have been used by the North Vietnamese during the "Tonkin Gulf" attack?? of August, 1964 against the DDEs Maddox & Turner Joy. [i will provide a not widely known version of the "Tonkin Gulf Incident" on that dedicated thread in the near term] Alfa [or Alpha] 66 was organized during the summer of 1962 at a place near San Juan, Puerto Rico, and this was as a result of Tony Cuesta et al. having left the CIA subchaser "Tejana II" and commenced organizing an experienced commando group. Tony Veciana [one of 66 exiled Cubans & Americans], including former Rebel Army Major Eloy Gutierrez Menoyo, et al. were major players. Without Cuesta, Alpha-66 would have had to rely on warriors such as Roger Redondo, Rafael Huguet, Cmdte. Nazario Sargent,Cmdte. Armando Fleites, M.D., "Antonico" Rodriguez, Capt. Diego Medina, et al. -- which meant using mountain guerrilla combat vets who were less experienced in Maritime operations. [now styled as LCO's "Littoral Combat Operations"] Later. GPH ______________________________

Both of them. Another good example was Michael Brown, the former head of FEMA. The one who did such a good job during Hurricane Katerina. It emerged that he was only given the post as a result of political favours carried out in the past. Brown, who had been sacked from his previous job as an organizer of horse shows, turned out to be poorly qualified for the job and Bush's decision to appoint him resulted in the deaths of a large number of Americans. Like with the Iraq War, employing cronies can be very expensive. ---------------------------- John: Still the courteous and civil proper English gentleman John !! You should have written that said son-of-a-bitch Brown lied through his teeth to both the Congress and the American people; yet still remains on the "Shrub" payroll teat !! He may not go to the chain gang for negligent homicide, but he sure as hell will go down; with Cheney, Libby, Rove, and a few others for the cover-up lying. Maybe Colson will take his "prison ministries" and help him find Jesus while he's there ??!! Back to C-SPAN. GPH _____________________________

I think it certainly strengthens the two-Oswald theory of Armstrong. I believe the Odio incident is said to have occurred on the night of September 27. Hours earlier that day, Oswald arrived by bus in Mexico City. Obviously this could not have been the same Oswald who was in Odio's apartment that night. Without checking my sources, Ron, I'm almost positive that when the sisters finally got their story together they believed they saw Oswald on the 25th, on the night he'd supposedly left from New Orleans, (on a bus where no one saw him). No one saw him on a bus till late that night/early the next morning in Houston. The WC came to the ridiculous conclusion that when Oswald called Mrs. Horace Twiford to try to arrange a late-night rendezvous in Houston, he was at a rest stop on the bus to Houston. This scenario makes little sense however because Mrs. Twiford lived several miles from the bus station, and Oswald, as we all know, didn't take cabs. The proper conclusion was Mrs. Twiford's conclusion--that Oswald was already in Houston when he called. He could have easily got there from Dallas and the Odio's, provided he flew with someone who had access to a car and could drive. Hmmm. Who do we know from New Orleans who could fly, and who knew the Houston/Galveston area? Just a hunch. I believe this was the very day of the Rorke/Sullivan flight, as well. Not sure if it's tied in in any way, but it's a coincidence worth mentioning. ---------------------------------- Pat: Upon our return from the search for Rorke and Sullivan, we decided not to inform Mrs. Rorke or lawyer Ellis Rubin [at a late October '63 de-briefing] about the most critical findings resulting from our SAR mission. We had flown the SAR in Charlie Bush's C-47 "Goony Bird" (Douglas DC-3 Mil/version). Davy was co-Pilot with Bush. Our routing took us from Opa-Locka, FL direct to the lawful P.O.E [Merida, Mexico]. RON'd there and flew to the island of Cozumel. 20 minutes after our landing at Cozumel, Ambassador Thomas Mann landed in the AM/Embassy-Mex-D.F. U.S.N. R4D-2 [uS Navy version of the C-47]. We flew on to Belize City, British Honduras the next day. RON'd there and then flew to Purto Barrios, Guatemala - where we were detained and flown to Guatemala City on a F.A.G. C-47. [more on that in the near term] Amb. Mann was accompanied by CIA/COS Win Scott, 2 WH-4 JM/WAVE -DDP Officers, and 4 Marine embassy guards "M.S.G.s" [who also were CIA assets], one of whom had spent 2 weeks with me in Havana after LHO's visit there during April 1959. Satisfied with his inquiries, Mann left about 4 hours later on a flight to Anacostia [via NAS Boca Chica - Cecil Field, NAS JAX, FL - to NAS Norfolk - direct Anacostia] We never mentioned my briefing of Geoff. Sullivan and Rorke on the proper techniques of flying low into Cuba under the BAM San Julian, etc. Sov/Radar ["threading-the-needle"] just before the Bayo/Pawley operation, which had been initially crypto'd as AM/TRUCK. Sturgis was thrown out of this Rorke mission briefing. [Control over Rorke was exercised my both FBI and US Army CIC - Boris Pash's old unit - while Fiorini/Sturgis was handled by Siragusa FBN operators & assisted by A.S.A - Magruder's old outfit]. Years later, I had the sad duty of informing Geoff's daughter Sherry that: Her father had transported LHO to Merida on that operation. She was accompanied by Janet Ray Weininger, daughter of Alabama Air Guard Pilot Capt. "Pete" Ray, whose B-26 was shot down [April 18th, 1961] while attempting to kill Fidel at his H.Q. [sugar-mill Central Australia - some miles north of Playa Giron, Bay of Pigs]. Jan finally recovered her father's frozen corpse from a Havana morgue, and he was buried with full military honors in Alabama. She sued the Cuban government a couple of years ago, and was recently awarded an $86 Million judgement, to be executed upon GOC impounded funds in D.C. !! We have all stayed in touch over these many years. "Nothing NEW here" - Back to C-SPAN. GPH _____________________________

---------------------------- NOT when it is safe for her, but when it is safe for all previously connected to her, here and abroad -- she will recant and denounce the abuse put to this courageous her repeatedly by entities of the U.S. and other foreign governments. She was [and still is] a very brave warrior, especially so when she operated with us inside Cuba. Many others like her, agreed with my challenge to Nazario Sargent, Medina, Fleites, et al. [Alpha-66] when I stated that: "....With so many family members now here inside the U.S.; just whose brother, sister, cousin, uncle or aunt are we going to murder inside Cuba NOW ??"!! "...They are targets and "enemies" now, just because they joined the Militia in order to feed their families !!" "...It is OVER !! Let us honor our dead, and those honorable warrior 'enemies'....and get on with really saving the Cuban people !!" [1970 -- After returning from disaster relief operations in Peru] 'VOLVEREMOS !!' Gerry Patrick Hemming, Ejercito Rebelde Cubano, F.A.R. [1958-1960] ________________________

--------------------- That would be his grandson. Tony's kids, grandkids, and extended family AGREE with your efforts, and don't think that your are pointing an accusatory finger at their hero. JEEZ !! It seems at least one Veciana, et al. is Googling and/or monitoring this Forum every day. Most likely because they want to know more about the true FACTS/EVIDENCE than anybody else. The older Cubans, some of whom had been visiting and supporting their families on the island almost on a quarterly basis -- don't even get near a computer, even when there is one in the house. The younger ones are sternly rebuked by their elders because there is something "mysterious" as to where these new "facts?" and "questions" are coming from. They don't grasp the concept of the internet, and when nothing appears on WQAM, UniVision or in El Nuevo Herald -- they suspect "bola" [rumor] mongering; and this is causing rifts within the families. Now that Bush has tightened the "Helms/Burton Criminal Embargo Crap", they are in a quandary as to if they might hurt those on the island by connecting up with folks who are attacking both the U.S. Government, and themselves !! A majority of Cubans now in the U.S. left the island long after the JFK murder, and were exposed to Castro's propaganda about the Dealey Plaza/Playa Giron nexus. They grew up under the revolutionary regime, and now that they are no longer "latecomers" or "Marielitos" -- they identify more with the pre-BOP exiles. However, here in exile [or new citizenship] they have never heard the first word of a solid nexus with DP & Miami, and the majority haven't a clue about what the WC or HSCA was even about. So that puts them in the same boat as "Joe 6-Pack & Family" !! Recklessly naming names and pointing accusatory fingers willi-nilli reminds them of the CDBs; the Cuban Communist neighborhood snitch committees that surveilled their every move. Compared to that, McCarthyism would be a silly joke. Keep up the good work, maybe the kids will convince the "Patriarchs" ?? Gerry ________________________________

------------------------------ As an aside, Gen. V. "Brute" Krulak took a fall off a ladder last week at his home near San Diego, but is recovering nicely. As to his identifying Lansdale as the "suit" passing by the "tramps"...... [Correctly stated: Gen. Charles Krulak, USMC (Ret.) stated to a former Pentagon "E-Ring" colleague that -- his father, LGEN Victor H. Krulak told him that he never intended to INSINUATE that Lansdale's "possible" presence near the tramps was any HINT that he believed that Lansdale was culpable in JFK's assassination. Moreover, as Prouty's former superior, and having been close to JFK since 1961, that he trusted Prouty was making a "PRIVATE/CONFIDENTIAL" inquiry into a brother General's [Lansdale] having been assigned some "covert task" in Dallas that day. I am NOT surprised that famous Marines aren't thrilled at finding their colleague's names involved in a "Kevin Bacon/connect-the-dots-theory-of-murders", especially when considering that a Marine was "convicted" by the WC of two murders without even an indictment nor arraignment !! In fact, they don't give a damn about some amatuer attempts at clearing Oswald's name, especially when it appears to be some kind of weirdo "Parlor Game"] ........Krulak denies ever even hinting at said statement, and moreover indicated that if you might notice, that individual is ducking his LEFT arm to his rear !! Lansdale's right arm was the drooping disabled one, not his left arm !! When Dale Dye came out from the wardrobe crew in a nice suit [filming "JFK"] we all razzed the hell out of him, because his normal attire was "grunge". Due to our operating without a working script a day in advance, I didn't discover what that scene represented until I saw the movie months later. Had I know, I would have warned Oliver against shooting that scenario, as I did on many occasions -- resulting in more than a few shouting matches.

-------------------------- Negatory Owen [and this is one of the many snivel factors by Mellen] I asked Jim how they got a judge to sign a criminal complaint affidavit to execute even a "house arrest ??" Lou interrupted to explain that pursuant to the "Napoleanic CIVIL Code" under which LA still operates, they had utilized a "material Witness" warrant; the same kind that hundreds of Muslim detainees were grabbed by the FBI since post-9/11. The "screw-up" was in saving the overtime buck$ for a baby-sitter, which bail bondsman [like my nephew] use renta-a-pigs or P.I.s instead of regular [or reserve] cops/constables. That is why every Cajun in N.O. still has a constable's badge, unless Katrina washed it away !! Cheers, GPH _______________________ Its not just Mellen, but every other book and account, pro- or anti-Garrison. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your presence here, but I don't attach a lot of credibility to this account. And really, I have no problem with accepting it either, if you can back it up. ------------------------------- Just after Oliver odered my 2nd haircut, on the sidewalk across from the "Bannister Office" locale; and in full view of the cordoned off & very amused spectators across the street -- me and Tomas Milian sat down with Joe Pesci on some garbage cans. In less than 20 minutes we had taught the little guy about 15 complicated phrases in Spanish [Cuban slang]. Tomas, though Cuban raised, had lived in Italy for years, and quietly insisted on pure Castillian phrases. We finally agreed that evidence showed that Ferrie used "guajiro" slang with a strong American accent, and thus reached a compromise. It amazed both of us that Joe could pick up these phrases so quickly, and we both then accused him of having at least taken a Berlitz course before filming started. He admitted to "messing" around with half a dozen languages since childhood. When I heard that Tomas was going to be the "boss" killer of Ferrie, I questioned Oliver as to where was the evidence of any "anti-Castro" Cubans having killed Ferrie. Response: Jim Garrison had a surveillance report from somewhere, that: "Cuban" looking men had exited Ferries place within the "time-of-death" window. "...Surveillance...by cops?...or neighbors making reports?" "[shrugged shoulders]" I asked for the OK to go see Garrison to check out exactly which was the case, or both !!" After mentioning that Lou had confirmed "house arrest" -- "...We will see about that later". After doing the scene inside the Bannister office with Joe, Asner, and Jack Lemmon, I went back over to the restaurant [where John Goodman still "hangs", and also where Garrison often had lunched] to once again speak with the owner about doing both a Garrison and Perry Russo set of scenes inside, or at least exteriors. Moi !! An assistant-set locale "director"once again. [Having done the same for the LaFitte 'training camp" set] While there, Hargraves showed up with one of the guys closest to Stone, and over a beer was advised that Garrison got real upset over a certain line of conversation -- and further asked that Kostner not do the restaurant scene to boot !! [This was THE actual restaurant where LHO was reported to have met with government agents, and was also frequented by Garrison quite regularly]. Seems that everybody was "pleasantly" surprised that we had "accidentally" found it ??!! Making mention of LHO to the owner, caused him to wobble a bit; and he said his dad ran things then -- and considering health matters and all, the family would gladly grant access at NO cost -- but no LHO, and no Kostner scenes !! A bonus from Kitman Ho or "bean-counter" Townsend ?? Don't be silly big guy, their giving you, Davy, and Roy unlimited meals & beer there !! Wow !! Thanks-a-bunch. Of course, Jim didn't want to go beyond the anti-Castro Cuban hit on Ferrie, and sure as hell didn't want to talk about a "screw-up". Now it is up to Lou Ivon's small circle to explain, or resolve -- or except that the "minor" scenario is meaningless, and was just more "Theater"!! Milian remained curious as to any evidence of Cubans killing Ferrie, and he asked Kostner about it during the filming of "Revenge" with Tony Quinn in Mexico. No NEWS here, GPH _______________________________ ------------------ Just got corrected by a pissed off Milian cousin in Miami -- and this person says the he "demanded" that Tomas raise the issue with Kostner while working up a VHS deal for "Revenge" in Italy some months after "JFK" came out in early 1992. [CRS again] GPH ___________________________