Robin Unger

Hi Allan. I am glad you joined in, i find Johns work on this topic very interesting. Great photo.

Some of John Dolvas work defining the make up of the autopsy table. It shows the series of interconnecting plates which were used to assemble the autopsy table, as well as the numerous drain holes. I beleive that it may have been a REFLECTION from one of the interconnecting "Stainlees Steel Plates" just above kennedy's head, which was mistaken as a NECK.

Great job john. Very nice work, especially that last image.

Pat . If you look at the Jack White's image which you have been using to cite area (7) Take a look at area (5) you will notice that Jack also reffers to the BEVELED hole as one of EXIT.

HSCA Statement concerning the correct orientation of the F8 image below.

Knudsen's HSCA Testimony: Probes through the body -- Mr. PURDY - Where did the probes go through the body? Mr. KNUDSEN - From the point where the projectile entered to the point where the projectile left. Mr. PURDY - Where were those two points? Mr. KNUDSEN - I did not say they were two points. Mr. PURDY - You said the projectile. Mr. KNUDSEN - From the entry to the exit. Mr. PURDY - Where were the entry and exit points? Mr. KNUDSEN - Here, again, I have a mental problem here that we were sworn not to disclose this to anybody. Being under oath, I cannot tell you I do not know, because I do know; but, at the same time, I do feel I have been sworn not to disclose this information and I would prefer very much that you get one of the sets of prints and view them. I am not trying to be hard to get along with. I was told not to disclose the area of the body, and I am at a loss right now as to whether -- which is right. Mr. PURDY - Was it a Naval order that you were operating under that you would not disclose? Mr. KNUDSEN - This was Secret Service. To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Berkley also emphasized that this not be discussed. Mr. PURDY - Do you remember seeing rulers in the photographs or anything other than the body itself? Mr. KNUDSEN - Yes. Mr. PURDY - What other things besides the body did you see, other than the rulers? Mr. KNUDSEN - What appeared to be stainless steel probes. Mr. PURDY - About how long were they? Mr. KNUDSEN - The probes? Mr. PURDY - Yes. Mr. KNUDSEN - I would estimate about two foot. Mr. PURDY - Was there one probe that you saw through the body, or were there more than one? Mr. KNUDSEN - More than one. Here again, we are getting into this grey area of what I was instructed not to discuss. Mr. PURDY - I am sure you recognize that this is a duly- authorized Congressional investigation? Mr. KNUDSEN - That is right, I do. That is why I say this is where I have a problem. I realize this is a duly-authorized investigation of the United States government. Personally, my preference would be that you get a set of the prints and view the prints, and then there would be no question. That would get me off the hook on the fact that I am sworn not to discuss the subject matter. Mr. PURDY - Do you know Robert Goff, the General Counsel of the Secret Service? Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not know him personally. Mr. PURDY - If he authorized you to discuss this information, would you be willing to discuss it? I should point out that we have the full cooperation of the Secret Service and the other government agencies in obtaining all other information and there were other orders that came down pertaining to this material on the autopsy that have been formerly rescinded by government agencies so we could pursue the investiga- tion. I am sympathetic to your concerns. I am not sure that you recognize the evidentiary significance of what you are saying here today and the importance of what you are not saying relative to other people's testimony, relative to examinations of the prints that we have made. Mr. KNUDSEN - I think this would clarify the whole situation. If the prints were examined, and then I would not be in the spot that I am, that I am sworn not to disclose it. It would give a very definite answer to you as to the number of probes. Mr. PURDY - I should say that we have had access to the autopsy photographs and the questions that I am asking remain unanswered. So I would like to ask again, if either we could arrange, or you could arrange with the Secret Service to have this order lifted, if you then would be willing to cooperate with us? Mr. KNUDSEN - I will cooperate as far as I can. As I say -- Mr. PURDY - If you are willing, we could take a short break and we could call the Secret Service, or I could give you the number and you can call them, or we can just ask a few other questions, have you gain a clearance and then reconvene on another day, if that is convenient with you. Mr. KNUDSEN - Whichever you prefer. Mr. PURDY - I think we will take a recess at this time. (A brief recess was taken.) Mr. PURDY - We are resuming the deposition. During the berak, I spoke with John Mehan, an assistant to Robert Goff and he is going to contact Robert Goff, General Counsel for the Secret Service. For the record, the time now is 10:28 a.m. Mr. Knudsen, was this a totally unique situation, specifically the making of these prints and the number of sets that were made, or was this a kind of a standard procedure for sensitive photo- graphs? Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not understand the question. Mr. PURDY - Were there other very sensitive photographs that you had to deal with that maybe were handled in a similar way as these with the Secret Service being involved in the transport of them, with a certain set number of prints made up, a definite number of sets of prints made up? Was this customary procedure for such sensitive materials? Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not recall any other time Secret Service has ever escorted me for something like that. Mr. PURDY - Was the number seven a customary number for sets of prints? Mr. KNUDSEN - No. I cannot tell you why it sticks. It sticks in my mind very strongly. Mr. PURDY - Could it have been seven prints? Are you very sure it is seven sets of prints? Mr. KNUDSEN - I know it could not have been seven prints, because that would not have covered a print for each negative. Mr. PURDY - How many negatives were you? How many prints were made? Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not recall. Mr. PURDY - Could you give me a rough idea? Mr. KNUDSEN - It seems to me approximately ten negatives, color negatives. I do not recall. This is an approximate. Mr. PURDY - You think there were approximately ten color prints made? Mr. KNUDSEN - No, approximately ten color negatives; seven prints of each of these. Mr. PURDY - You made seven prints of each negative? Mr. KNUDSEN - Yes.

Missing autopsy photo. QUOTE: Phone Conversation between Acting Attorney General Ramsey Clark and President Lyndon Johnson Re: Autopsy Photos Date: 1-21-67 12:00 Noon Time: 7 mins 25 secs at the end of a 8 mins 31 secs conversation Background: Ramsey Clark was U.S. Attorney General between 1967 and 1969 under president Lyndon Johnson, an administration that escalated the war in Vietnam, and that pursued FBI investigations of civil rights activists under the Counter Intelligence Program. Now Ramsey Clark is a fierce critic of U.S. foreign policy and domestic human rights practices, and claims that "the greatest human rights violator in the world is my own government." -Begin- RC: Ah, we had three pathologists that performed the autopsy on evening of November 22nd come in. We had to bring Finck from Viet Nam. There were only 8 of us, including the three pathologists. They went into archives last night. (1)The staff worked till midnight on the autopsy photos and X-rays. They all three seemed to have a chip on their shoulder. I think they'll go along with our that they shouldn't talk. LBJ: They shouldn't what? RC: They shouldn't talk to anybody. But they are quite defensive of the criticism of them. They feel their professional reputations are at stake and what not. They say, "We haven't got it tied down as an affidavit yet." I hope they have it by Monday. They'll be working on it today or tomorrow here. They may have it done before then. But, they're so technical, so reticent about finding things that they're hard to work with. They say the autopsy photos conclusively confirm their judgment as to the bullet entered the back of the skull --- and it's not perfectly conclusive as to the one in the lower neck. It's very clear to them that they, there's nothing in the autopsy photos that contradicts anything that they said. Now, we've run into one problem last night that we didn't know of. That is, there may be a photo missing. Dr. Humes, Commander and Naval doctor, testified before the Warren Commission (2)that this one photo made of the highest portion of the right lung. The other two doctors don't recall if such a photo was made. They do recall discussing the desired ability of making such a photo. But there is no such photo in these exhibits. It could be contended that that photo could show the course and direction the bullet that entered the lower part of the neck and exited the front part. We're seeing to run that down. The only other witness that would have any judgment at all would be the corpsman, naval corpsman, that took the photos. We have to talk to him. We're not too sure, until we see what the doctors conclude. That's desirable. We are left with one specific problem. Dr. Humes did testify before the Warren Commission there was such a photo we don't have. LBJ: Wasn't delivered to you. RC: Not delivered. That's very clear. Another part that is a concern that's not tied down either --- that's Dr. Burkley's part. You remember I talked to him on November 8th down at the Ranch after I talked with you about it. Hadn't discussed it since. He gets very emotional on the subject. His eyes start watering. He says that he knew where the autopsy photos were all the time. They were in his possession. Now, this is not --- He's not entirely clear on the matter. The possession will become an issue in a significant way and it had not been until, in our judgment, till last night because of the missing photo now. I say "missing photo." There's a contradiction of whether there was this photo. LBJ: Ah uh. Well, they weren't actually in his possession, were they? RC: He said that they were actually in his possession. And that he received them and had them in a safe in E.O.B. (Executive Office Building) In a vault sort of thing in E.O.B. He later released them to Mrs. Lincoln. Probably hidden them. (garbled) Which I think I know, prepared by Bobby Kennedy. I think Dr. Burkley knew what he had in every instance. He knew every minute. He, ah, I tell you the real problem is when you start talking with him about it what he said is it's just outrageous that anybody would want those photos. The personal property of the dead president's family. "Horrible" when he talked about it, thinks about it. "People shouldn't do that." When you try to explain that's a real problem, why, he --- "It just won't do at all." His inventory (3) coincides with what we had. Inventory that we got ---material was delivered to us by Kennedy representative Burke Marshall (4). So that would indicate that between his letter and what we received November 1, everything is there. Or if there were another photo, on the 4th (garbled) then Mrs. Lincoln. LBJ: Ok. I... RC: I don't really think he had actual possession. I think he had something, he had constructive possession part of the time. We have evidence the material was given to him before this. At the Archives longer than this. Nobody at Archives knew it was there. Mrs. Lincoln had some storage space including some security vaults because she was working over there on the President's papers and all Presidential Library. Course people had the keys, 'course things filed up. (garbled) LBJ: (sighing) Ok. I'll talk to you later. (abruptly hanging up) -end- http://www.jfklancer.com/Clark.LBJ.html

Parkland nurse Pat Hutton, who observed the head wound as Kennedy was first wheeled in.

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/AutopsyRoom/

Small SPOT at the back of the neck, which Boswell decribed in his ARRB testimony as BRAIN matter. IMO this SPOT at the back of the Neck has the correct trajectory to line up with the throat wound. The question is, is it a wound of (EXIT) OR ( ENTRANCE) ?

That's great work Robin did with F8. I've never seen that before. T.C. Thanks Tim. I beleive i see in those photos: (1) a bone flap on the RIGHT side of the head, just above and in front of the ear. (2) The scalp retracted over the face. (3) The crack to the right side of the head which extends down to the EYE socket. (4) The ENTRY point , near the RIGHT ear. (5) The bevelled EXIT point, near the center of the TOP of the head.

Pat. I have just finished discussing at length the "orientation" of the fox F8 PHOTO with John Dolva, in the BE7 thread. ! As for the SPOT at the back of the neck, i beleive it may be the ENTRY OR EXIT POINT for the throat wound.

Nice job James: This is one of Lee's versions of that image. As Charles pointed out, i have marked on the image were i beleive a "mask" or "filter" was TAPED over the original image.

Jack, it seems reasonable to think it is Altgens bag. But is there a reason to be sure? (If not there are other candidates.) Hi John. I don't think there is any doubt that the object IS in fact Altgens camera bag. I beleive jack was just curious, as to why he had not spotted it, in any of the other films when cross refferencing. Your welcome .!

Altgens and Wiegman in Cancellare 1

Hi James. Yeh, that's him.