Mark Knight

Kathy, that was answered in the quote box in post # 31.

As a student of history, I must agree with Ron. Sex has been in America a lot longer than just since the JFK assassination; I was born 9 years befor that, and I'm sure it was a natural conception and not some test-tube sort of thing [though, obviously, I wasn't there to confirm that]. Sex in America surely predates the Jamestown settlement in 1607, as there were natives here when the colonists arrived. Or Google "Sonny Wisecarver"... Ever read The Autobiography of Malcolm X? In it, the former Malcolm Little tells of getting high, years prior to his conversion to Islam...and The Hate That Hate Produced, chronicling Malcolm's rise within the Nation of Islam, was aired on TV in 1959, prior to the JFK presidency. Musicians were smoking marijuana and partaking of other drugs [opiates, for example] prior to WWII. If Americans weren't using drugs before the JFK assassination, then the folks who produced the movie Reefer Madness in the 1930's were wasting a lot of money--Depression-era dollars at that--to make a movie that wasn't necessary for another 30 years! And for that matter, LSD wasn't made illegal in the US until 1966--nearly three years AFTER the JFK assassination. As far as the rock and roll angle, it was already in America in the 1950's...and I daresay, the "British Invasion" led by The Beatles, was a juggernaut that was coming whether JFK was dead or alive. It just goes to show that if you were sitting on the sidelines waiting for the JFK assassination to bring about the era of "sex, drugs, and rock and roll," the "revolution" had already started without you.

"When Kennedy was in NY, Mark sped him around in his souped-up Camara..." OK, I call BS. I searched the internet, and I can find no car manufactured anywhere in the world called a "Camara." So if the writer meant "Camaro," that's all well and good...but the Chevrolet Camaro wasn't marketed until the 1967 model year [september 29, 1966, to be exact]...making it impossible for anyone to have JFK riding with them in one, unless the corpse was exhumed unbeknownst to nearly everyone. And what a macabre sight THAT would've been! And that business about the "2nd Warren Commission" reeks to high heaven. All in all, this account seems to be an attempt to link a lot of "stoner" memories [an oxymoron if there ever was one], and the net result is a lot of gibberish that, for the most part, can be dismissed upon its face. "I gathered from Mark that they had come from the doctor's office." Now THERE's a solid link...NOT! "...two Texans entered the studio and were introduced to me as Clint Murchinson and Gordon McClendon." Of course, they may have actually been Howdy Doody and Buffalo Bob, but they were introduced as... I just don't see much substance to this.

In a post somewhere up the page, Tom Purvis said: "Lastly, in event that you want to know why Klein's ceased to order to Model 91/24 (junk) carbines which LHO ordered, and which Klein's paperwork demonstrates was sent to him,"... SO...apparently Tom's saying that, according to Klein's paperwork, LHO was shipped a 91/24. THEN...in the most recent post, Tom tells us that C2766 was a 91/38 of some sort, a rifle with a fixed rear sight...not the 91/24 that "Klein's paperwork demonstrates was sent to [Oswald]", which had an adjustable rear sight... So tell us straight out, Tom: Was C2766--apparently a 91/38, by your most recent post--shipped to Oswald? If so, where's the paper trail? How did he pay for it? To what address was it sent? To me, it's beginning to sound like you're talking in circles, Tom. Either the 91/38 can be tracked to Oswald, or it can't. From the evidence I've seen, it can't. The evidence demonstrates that Oswald ordered, and "Klein's paperwork demonstrates was sent to him," a 91/24. There is no information IN EVIDENCE which indicates that Klein's shipped more than one rifle to Oswald at ANY address. I'm not saying they didn't ship a second rifle, the 91/38, to Oswald; I'm just saying there is NO EVIDENCE showing that Klein's shipped a 91/38 to Oswald, and NO EVIDENCE that Oswald received any other rifle than the 91/24 from Klein's. Am I wrong here, Tom? Is there any evidence, any paperwork or other records that indicate that Oswald received a second rifle from Klein's? Or are you backing up on the assertion that, as the evidence shows, Oswald ordered, and Klein's shipped, a 91/24? Just when I think I know what you're saying about the rifle, and which one Oswald ordered, Klein's shipped, and Oswald received from Klein's...then it begins to sound like you're reversing your position. Can't you just come out and say what you mean? Or have you talked in circles so far that you've managed to confuse even yourself?

Uh...Lee...about those "crooked cops in Atlanta for MLK"... MLK was shot in Memphis. He lived in Atlanta. While crooked cops in Atlanta might've posed a problem for MLK, they didn't control the murder investigation in Memphis...at least I hope not.

The biggest "red herring"so far is the WC passing off the 91/24 Carcano that LHO ordered [and received] from Klein's as the 91/38 that was recovered from the TSBD. Not the ONLY red herring, mind you, but it's certainly the smelliest smelt I ever smelt. [Apologies to the vaudeville comedian who originally wrote that line...] To this day, we don't know whether Oswald received the 91/38 in Dallas or in New Orleans...or for that matter, whether he ever possessed the 91/38 at any time. We don't know where it came from, we don't know by what means it traveled from where it originated, and we don't know when or where Oswald got it, if he ever did. Oswald, as Hidell, apparently ordered and received the 91/24 from Klein's...I'll concede that there is evidence of that, however twisted it might be. But a competent defense attorney could have proven the differences between the 91/24 that Oswald ordered and received, and the 91/38 that was recovered in the TSBD--which is in no way directly linked to Oswald--and convinced a jury, based upon the prosecution's own evidence, that Oswald [most likely] never possessed the murder weapon, the 91/38. Of course, had LHO survived and been able at his trial to produce the 91/24, it would've blown the prosecution's case wide open...as the 91/38 would've been shown as the "orphan" rifle that we now know it is...because the prosecution could not and cannot prove the whereabouts of the 91/38 prior to 1 pm on November 22, 1963. Or can they? Anyone know of ANY evidence that shows how, when, and where the 91/38 came into Oswald's possession...if it ever did?

The silence is deafening. The evidence cited by the WC, as twisted as it is, only ties Oswald to a Carcano model 91/24, which was a cut-off version of a rifle with a progressive twist barrel. The rifle recovered in the TSBD was a model 91/38, and there is no evidence on record explaining how Oswald might have come into possession of a 91/38. SO...since the 91/38 is most likely the murder weapon...but it's not the same rifle the WC has "proved" was received from Klein's by Oswald...as Desi used to say to Lucy, somebody's "got some 'splainin' to do." Did Oswald obtain the 91/38? From whom? When? How? Or if the 91/38 wasn't Oswald's, why was the serial number "coincidentally" the same as the 91/24 that Oswald DID receive? The easiest thing for the WC to do...was what they did. They "tracked" the 91/24 from Klein's to Oswald, and then attempted to pass off the 91/38 as the same weapon. Tom has pointed out that the rear sight on the 91/24 is different than the one on the 91/38. So if Oswald had taken the 91/24 and changed out the barrel to one from a 91/38--and, assuming the 91/38 barrel was unstamped [without a serial number], had stamped the same C2766 serial number into the 40-inch barrel--there would still be the matter of the rifle in custody having the 91/24 rear sight, as I understand the evidence before me. And from what I've read, the rear sight on the rifle in custody seems to be the correct one for a 91/38. So...where did the 91/38 rifle come from? And did it ever actually come into Oswald's possession? Tom, help me out here...you seem to have hinted that Harry Holmes may have inspected a package containing the 91/38; is there any evidence on record to support this, or are you just "supposin'?"

What we know--or think we know--is basically what the WC laid out as the evidence tying the Carcano to LHO. But it only ties ONE rifle to Oswald...NOT two. As best I can determine by my analysis of the evidence, it shows LHO ordering and receiving one 91/24...which means that the 91/38 that was in custody may not have fired any magic bullets, but it certainly has become a magic rifle, changing from a highly INaccurate 91/24 with the progressive-twist rifling cut off, to a 91/38, with conventional rifling, a different length barrel, and as the video shows, a highly accurate rifle. So I haven't seen any evidence where the 91/38 came from...Hemming hinted to me that it came out of Montreal, but there's simply no chain of evidence linking a 91/38 to Oswald. So whether Oswald bought, stole, traded for, or was simply given the 91/38...we really don't know for certain where it came from, and there's no direct evidence tracing the gun to Oswald...unlike the [now-missing] 91/24. Or at least that's MY understanding of the evidence.

Since the red stars are on the left side of Lincoln's head...and the primary damage to JFK's head was in the back, top, and right sides...no, I don't see the correlation. Unless you're referring to substantial amounts of dark hair, that JFK and Lincoln apparently had in common...I just don't see it.

Tom, A few weeks ago I discovered a video on YouTube that shows a 91/38 Carcano 6.5 mm being fired at various ranges out to 420 yards...I hope the link above is the one [i'm on dial-up today, so it would take forever to pull up and watch the video]. At any rate, I recall the person narrating the video mentions that the 6.5 mm bullet drops 11 inches at 420 yards. BUT...knowing that the 91/38 can be accurate at 400+ yards, that should completely squelch the argument that it wasn't accurate enough to use on three shots of less than 100 yards. The cut-down 91/24--the rifle that was shipped to Oswald--probably wouldn't have been accurate at 40 yards, but the 91/38--the rifle that was recovered at the TSBD--was clearly capable of what it is alleged to have done, and a lot more. As to the links you posted...I'm of the opinion that Postal Inspector Harry Holmes may have been guilty of manufacturing evidence, especially the money order that apparently had never been cashed or deposited atr ANY bank, yet which was used to "prove" that Oswald ordered the rifle...the 91/24 "shortened" rifle that somehow, some way, one day morphed into a 91/38 short rifle, one with the same serial number as the 91/24 Klein's shipped. I'm certainly not saying that Oswald didn't ALSO receive a 91/38 from somewhere; it just wasn't the gun that was originally shipped by Klein's, although the WC went to a great deal of trouble to pass the two rifles off as being one and the same. Maybe Oswald also received the 91/38 through the mail, and maybe inspector Harry Holmes did inspect it prior to delivery. It's just that there is no evidence on record to support that conjecture, AFAIK.

Ah, so! This removes us immediately from mere incompetence at the outset and lands us smack-dab in the middle of a well-hatched plot involving the very souls who were looking for one! Weren't they saying within hours that it was a Communist plot? Didn't they spend the next several weeks searching for those nefarious scoundrels, albeit to no avail? Why waste so much time and manpower in such an intensive investigation if they knew all along that Oswald didn't do it? It simply makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry, ain't buyin' into that one, no sir. Duke, the main thing the DPD wanted to do on the afternoon of November 22, 1963 was to wrap up the case. They had their alleged sniper's nest, they had their shell casings, and they had their rifle. I still believe the LAST thing they wanted was any shred of evidence that the Carcano WASN'T their murder weapon...so they had EVERY incentive to NOT prove that the rifle hadn't been fired. The rifle, in combination with the shell casings, was powerful circumstantial evidence that the rifle HAD been fired; why would they want to look for evidence thet MIGHT prove that it HADN'T been fired? Flip side of that coin is, because they HADN'T checked the rifle for GSR, they picked up Frazier's .303 enfield and took it into custody as part of their investigation. Had they checked the barrel of the Carcano for GSR, their circumstantial case would have been complete, and the temporary confiscation of Frazier's Enfield wouldn't have been necessary. What I'm NOT saying is that the DPD knew Oswald was innocent; What I'm saying is, IF Oswald was innocent, and IF the Carcano hadn't been fired, the DPD didn't want to know that, nor did they want anyone else to know. They had their Commie, they had their rifle, they had spent shell casings for that rifle, and they had their sniper's nest...open-and-shut case, and of the type that Henry Wade was known for getting a conviction. They didn't WANT exculpatory evidence, so they didn't SEEK exculpatory evidence. AND prosecutors could then TRUTHFULLY say that there was "no evidence" that the Carcano police found wasn't used in the crime, because DPD investigators simply didn't want to run the risk of finding that evidence, and blowing a big hole in their circumstantial case. IOW, the DPD wasn't necessarily seeking the truth; they were seeking to hand Wade a pre-packaged murder conviction. Truth was secondary to wrapping up the case. [Ask the man wrongly accused of the Atlanta Olympic bombing if that sort of police work doesn't continue to occur in America. Or the Duke University lacrosse team. Coincidentally, as with Oswald, these defendants never went to trial, either...but innocently or not, their characters had been smeared.]

As far as interpreting the "smell" of gunpowder, am I incorrect that the primary/most prominent olfactory component of burned gunpowder is sulfur? If so, would not the sound of ANYTHING that resembled a shot, accompanied by a sulfurous smell, lend itself to interpretation as a possible gunshot? What I'm saying is, since witnesses thought the first sounds they heard sounded like firecrackers, is it not possible that perhaps there actually were one or more firecrackers set off in DP...thus adding to the confusion, and also accounting for the gunpowder that Yarborough smelled at ground level? Obviously, at this late date it would be impossible to prove either way...but perhaps the reason several witnesses to the shooting mentioned firecrackers is that there actually were firecrackers being set off by bystanders along the parade route? Of course, firecrackers wouldn't have been a problem, except for the actual shooting that occurred. So perhaps what Yarborough smelled was the airborne residue from an exploded firecracker at ground level, rather than actual gunshot residue...maybe the sound of a firecracker WAS just a firecracker and not a gunshot, but it occurred at the time and place of the actual gunshots. I don't think we're actually going to discover much of value about what smell was where 45 years ago. As far as GSR inside the barrel of the rifle...well...the DPD didn't want to prove that the rifle HADN'T been fired; and the only thing provable by GSR in the barrel would be that the absence of GSR would show the gun hadn't been fired since its last cleaning. That's evidence the DPD certainly didn't want to find, so they purposely didn't look for it...IMHO.

The Warren Commission talked in circles about the Carcano, and unfortunately it fooled a lot of people. But the truth is, based upon the records the WC used, LHO ordered, and Klein's Sporting Goods shipped, a model 91/24 Carcano. This rifle had a shortened barrel which removed the majority of its progressive-twist rifling, rendering the rifling ineffective, and thus the 91/24 was an inaccurate weapon. However, the rifle recovered in the TSBD was a model 91/38, for which there is NO paper trail of LHO ordering or receiving [from Klein's or anywhere else], and which was designed as a short-barreled rifle and was a HIGHLY accurate weapon. The fraud, the lie, the scam, is that the WC passed off the 91/24 that Oswald ordered, Kleins shipped, and Oswald received, as the same 91/38 that was recovered in the TSBD. As far as I can determine, the 91/24 either was never recovered by authorities, or if it was recovered, its recovery was covered up. In modern guns, confusing the 91/24 and the 91/38 would be similar to confusing a Maverick Model 88 pump shotgun equipped with the 18-inch cylinder-bore barrel and the same Maverick Model 88 pump with a 24" rifled [slug] barrel...except there would only be one Maverick with any particular serial number, which is definitely not the case with a Carcano. So...Gil...without getting into the sling/sling swivel issue, it can certainly be proved that the Depository Carcano wasn't the rifle that can be proved to have been received by Oswald. Whether the recovered rifle was Oswald's or not cannot be determined by the evidence we have available...so I tend to believe it wasn't Oswalds, as THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that LHO ever possessed the 91/38.

"Purv, If you read Donald Gibson's book "The Kennedy Assassination Cover-up" you'll find alot of proof that the WC was set up by private power, and was controlled by John J. McCloy along with his side kick Mr. Dulles. LBJ had little to do with the creation of the Warren Commission. It was not his idea." Terry, you are so correct. According to the Bechsloss [sp?] book on the LBJ tapes, Johnson adamantly wanted this NON-federal crime investigated by the great state of Texas....until he "suddenly" changed his mind. Unfortunately, we've not been privy to who, or what, changed Lyndon's mind on that...but the speed of that 180-degree shift should've given him a terminal case of whiplash. As far as LHO being the most likely shooter, Tom... LHO certainly had the capability, and he worked in the building. I just haven't seen sufficient evidence to put him behind the trigger of the 91/38 that was recovered [vs. the 91/24 he apparenty ordered, and was shipped, from Klein's]. In fact, I've yet to see evidence that LHO ever had possession of the 91/38, with the exception of the "phantom" palmprint which only "appeared" after LHO was dead. There's simply no trail from wherever the 91/38 was sourced, leading directly--or indirectly--to LHO. But that was part of the WC sleight-of-hand, tracking the 91/24 to Oswald, and then passing that info off as linking LHO and the 91/38 that authorities recovered. The evidence simply is too meager to support this fraudulent conclusion the WC tried to foist on the public.

Duke, some time back I inquired as to the whereabouts/accessibility of tapes that the FBI made of the DPD Dictabelt recordings, specifically about the hours after the assassination, my interest primarily being what information went out over the police radio that led to the DPD confiscating, at least temporarily, a certain .303 Enfield rifle belonging to a particular TSBD employee. The esteemed Gary Mack enlisted many behind-the-scenes sources to help seek out the whereabouts of these tapes, but the tapes apparently no longer exist...not in the National Archives, not nowhere, not no-how, to paraphrase a certain Emerald City gatekeeper. Since transcripts are subject to alteration, the tapes would be preferable to transcripts...but, alas, they apparently have become the stuff of which legendary evidence is made. If you find out differently, I'd certainly be interested in finding out where the tapes have been...or why and how they were lost/destroyed/vanished.

In the early 1960's, I lived in a small town in Indiana. There was an area in the south side of town that was known as n Hill, where the majority of the black minority lived. Blacks were commonly referred to by "the n-word," and it was simply the way it was. At the local high school, the guidance counselor was a transplant from Georgia, and he pronounced the word "negro" as "nigra," and folks just nodded understandingly and let it go. In the early 1960's, fair housing laws were several years away in much of America. While racism was surely pervasive in the South, there were vestiges of it in much of American life. As a baby boomer, I started school in the little white two-room "annex" that had originally been the "colored" school in my hometown. But we didn't have separate water fountains or rest rooms, and as we grew, our black classmates became our friends; the "niggers" were the black folks we saw on the evening news who were rioting in Watts and Washington D.C. My generation wasn't the first "enlightened" generation; it was more that we evolved into people who could see that denying our fellow citizens the right to vote, or to buy or rent a house anywhere they could afford, was simply wrong in a nation where the document that spelled out our reason for becoming a nation had declared, a long 185 years before, that "all men are created equal." Blacks and whites dating??? We just couldn't see it back then, although the lone black in my graduating class was elected Prom King, based upon his personal popularity. In other words, he'd gone from being "one of them" to truly being "one of us," all because we shared classes and sports and Boy Scout camping trips with him and discovered he was just like everyone else. In the context of growing up in that era, I can imagine that JFK might have said what was alleged in Hersh's book. But I still think it shows that he was ahead of the curve, as compared to the area where I grew up, as he might've used "the n-word," but didn't. Remember, in 1963 Martin Luther King still had a "dream" that had yet to be realized...and which is only fully coming to life here in 2008. And you're trying to look at this thru the prizm of 2008, when it needs to be examined in the light of 1961, when it allegedly occurred. But I can imagine that the only reason that Hersh included that alleged quote was to add to the unsavory picture he was painting of JFK. While JFK certainly wasn't a saint, neither was he as bigoted as most of America still was in the early 1960's, IMHO.

Thanks Tom, I couldn't shake that loose. Being an ordinary citizen from Ft. Lauderdale, would you know of a back alley joint called the Parrot Lounge? There might be a few Philadelphia Eagle fans there for the game vs. New Orleans Saints. Did you ever find the old Z film from friend's archives? Maybe its The Other film? Bill Kelly I know of a Parrot Lounge in Cooper City, and one somewhere else that I'd need to be at to remember where it was, lol... after some discussion, the warehouse film is almost undoubtedly a copy of the Garrison "college copy"...but I haven't managed to fish it up from the depths yet, so who knows? Its making me crazy now............who was the guy who sang the song with the lyrics about Martin, John, and Bobby? For the life of me I cant remember. Must have been all the drugs I did back then when the song came out!! LOL! Somebody out there knows.........help this brain dead old fart out here! -smitty "Anybody here seen my old friend John, won't you tell me where he's gone." " He freed a lot of people, but it seems the good die young" "Won't you tell me where he's gone" Marvin Gaye, Smitty. From the songwriter's webpage at www.dickholler.com/bio.html : BIO Dick Holler, American Songwriter Ray Charles, Garth Brooks, Whitney Houston, Tori Amos, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Kenny Rogers, Harry Belafonte and Bob Dylan have one thing in common; all have recorded or performed songs written by Dick Holler. Collectively over the last 30 years, Dick Holler has sold over 32 million records. His American classic 'Abraham, Martin and John' is noted as being the only song to have reached the Top 40, five times with five different artists. The original version by 'Dion' was a nation wide best seller reaching the number #4 position on the national Billboard charts in January of 1969. Since then it has also received the B.M.I. "4 Million Airplay" award, making the song one of the most prestigious songs of the last century. Another of Dick’s million sellers, 'Snoopy vs. The Red Baron,' (co-written with Phil Gernhard) was a smash hit in early 1967 and spent four weeks at the number #2 position on the Billboard charts behind 'I'm a Believer' by The Monkees'. Other artists who have recorded Dick's songs include Lobo, Cher and The Bellamy Brothers. For the past 9 years Dick has been touring throughout Europe playing to enthusiastic audiences in Norway, U.K, Scotland, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Austria and Switzerland. Still writing more than ever, over the past 3 years he’s had over 25 cuts on several #1 albums in Europe. His sons Reno and David share many of the writing credits on Dick’s recent chart success. If you're lucky enough to see Dick ‘live’, you'll find there's not a soul in the place that isn't dancing, singing, clapping or doing all three. Add that to his massive catalogue of original compositions, it’s easy to see why many consider Dick Holler a true American treasure. [Emphasis mine.] Five times in the top 40, by five different artists. Pardon the pun, but the lyrics apparently struch a chord with listeners everywhere. And "Dion" refers to Dion DiMucci, formerly lead singer of Dion and the Belmonts, which was originally a doo-wop group famous for such songs as "Donna the Prima Donna," "Ruby Baby," "Runaround Sue," and "The Wanderer."

Easy answer is: (1) CE 399 didn't come from Connally's thigh; and (2) it wasn't planted at Parkland. CE399 fell out of the shallow back wound of JFK at Parkland.

Mark, Im not convinced that the differences in rifles would have made a major change in such a short distance shooting event. I believe that is the same Donahue. It also seems, if I recall correctly, there was some conflict between them after the book. what I suspected was that Donahue was less than impressed with the way Menninger portrayed the information. Be that as it may, it does not change the fact that Donahue actually completed the event. Best, Mike The Model 91/24 to which Mark refers is the old Long Rifles of the period from when these weapons were placed into service in 1892 until the year 1924 when a modification began in which literally thousands of the old Long Rifle which had the progressive gain twist were converted to Model 91/24 Carbines by having the front 32.8 cm/12.79 inches of the rifle barrel cut off. Dependent upon exactly how much wear the weapon had prior to "cut-down", at a hundred yards, some of them may have difficulty in repetetively hitting between the two end-zone goal posts. Which weapon is of course responsible for much of the "lore" in regards to the inability to hit anything with the weapon, as well as the unsafe nature of the weapon. Both of which have considerable merit for that specific weapon, which also happens to be the weapon in the Klein's add that LHO ordered. http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/9124ts.html Barrel Length Model 91 Long Rifle:---------------------------------------78cm Barrel length Model 91/24 Carbine:--------------------------------------92.1cm 12.79 inches of the barrel, which also contained the final full-gain twist of the rifling, now gone. So the longer rifles of course would be more accurate, and the shorter "modified" rifles a crap shoot dependent upon wear before the modification began. Makes sense. So if in fact a carbine were in place during the shooting event, its accuracy would have been great to lousy..... Nothing comes easy do it? The Klein's add was for the Model 91/24 Carbine, (cut-down Long Rifle) which by it's very nature is extremely inaccurate. The Order number of LHO's order form was for the Model 91/24 Carbine, which only a complete fool would attempt to utilize in an assassination attempt. LHO, as demonstrated by his discussion with Adrian Alba, clearly demonstrated his knowledge of the potential effect that shortening a rifle into a carbine, could have on accuracy. Then, LHO is shown holding a Model 91/38 Short Rifle. And lastly, a Model 91/38 Short rifle, which was utilized in the assassination of JFK, is recovered on the sixth floor of the TSDB. Me thinks that Mark is merely attempting to get a "second" informed opinion as to the viability of utilization of a Model 91/24 Carbine in the shooting event, and exactly why one would not want to attempt to utilize such a weapon. These old 91/24's demonstrated considerable internal wear also. The progressive gain twist obviusly cut down on some of this initial wear, but the early day highly corrosive powder did it's damage quite effectively. Actually, Tom, the point I was attempting to raise was...if CBS attempted the recreation with the 91/24 that Oswald ordered from Klein's, instead of the 91/38 that was found in the TSBD, it might explain why their experts had trouble with accuracy, as well as why thry might've had trouble with the operation of worn bolts and such. Whereas, if CBS attempted their recreation with the 91/38 short rifle, the degree of difficulty would, IMHO, be quite different. Anyone know if there's a record of what variety rifle CBS used?

Since I don't have my copies of the survey plat before me--mainly because I don't own copies of the survey plat--I'd like Prof. Purvis to go into a little more detail--for the benefit of those who, like me, may seem a little dense about this--on how all this ties in to "Point A"... Not trying to be difficult here, Tom...just trying to understand the relationships.

Mike, this stuff about the '67 CBS tests leads me to wonder which Carcano they used: the accurate 40-inch "short rifle" [model 91/38] or the less-accurate 36-inch "shortened" rifle [model 91/24]. Might've made a BIG difference in the accuracy part of the tests. BTW: Wasn't Howard Donahue the man behind the Bonar Menninger book, Mortal Error ? That would be the book that accused SS agent Hickey of accidentally firing the fatal headshot from the SS follow-up car from his AR-15...for which, IIRC, Hickey sued Menninger...is that not correct? http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhickey.htm

I can't speak for the "black-ops" kinda guys, but for those of us who use civillian weapons for hunting and target shooting purposes and buy retail, ammunition is purchased in box lots. A box of shot shells for a 12-gauge shotgun usually contains 25 rounds, and a box of slugs--rifled, saboted, or otherwise--usually contains 5. For my .41 Rem. Magnum "wheel gun," they come in boxes of either 25 or 50 rounds. For my .22 rimfire, those are sold in boxes of 50 thru 500 rounds. Nowhere am I able to purchase less than a box lot of any gauge/caliber ammunition. [Again, understand that I buy at retail, and not from the CIA station.] But the logical conclusion is that, had I purchased a box of ammunition, and used less that the entire box, the remaining ammunition would've been found either on my person or in my personal effects somewhere. And no "excess" ammunition for the 6.5 mm Carcano were found either on Oswald's person or among his personal effects. So, from the spent casings found in the TSBD and the one live round found in the Carcano, either (1) LHO was down to his last four rounds; (2) Oswald never purchased any ammunition, and spent his off-time from work standing on the street corners begging for spare lead [as opposed to spare change], and only was able to scrounge 4 rounds of ammo; (3) when he was assigned the JFK hit, he was only given enough ammunition for the hit itself [but since I'm not connected to any clandestine ops, that's merely speculation on my part]; or (4) LHO's only job was to acquire the Carcano, and someone else fired the shots and brought their own ammunition...meaning the actual shooter probably had the remnants of a box of 6.5mm Carcano ammunition either on their person or in their personal effects at a location that was not searched in connection to Oswald.

No, I have not noticed, but It doesn't surprise coming from Purvis. Please DO explain! By the way, the statement that "without the single bullet theory, you have no single assassin", comes from Dr. Cyril Wecht. And thusfar I cannot shoot holes in that statement. So yes, please give me the explanation on how he is wrong! Please tell me how Oswald could have caused all the wounds in JFK and Conally with three shots (one miss), if one of his two hits did not penetrate both men? Wim Wim, you err when you assume one miss. As the followers of Jim Jones discovered far too late, it's not always wise to drink the kool-aid the "authorities" hand out. Here's a synopsis of Tom's case, as posted on another thread today:

Tom, you just made the point I was alluding to...that ol' Abe had to MANUALLY push the zoom button to zoom in leading up to frame 313, and then MANUALLY zoom out afterwards. Those actions just seem counterintuitive to me...more logical to zoom in when the subject is further away, zoom out as subject gets closer, and then zoom in again as the subject starts to move away again. Maybe Abe was a klutz, and got it backwards. Or maybe not...which would mean something else is afoot with version of the Z-film we have in the public domain.

Wim, this information about the probes seems to confirm the speculation of the Parkland doctors, that they couldn't rule out the possibility that the massive rear head wound may have been a result of the neck wound. Interesting. I would've thought that the Z-film would've debunked that explanation, as there was no [apparent] head wound when JFK begins to reach for his throat. But I suppose they were obligated during the autopsy to explore as many options as possible. Shame the original autopsy notes were destroyed, as they might've been somewhat illuminating in this respect. I think your contention, "without the single bullet theory, there is no singel assassin," is too sweeping a generalization. In case you hadn't noticed,Tom Purvis has laid out a convinvcing case as to how the SBT could be total horse manure, yet the scenario of a single assassin could be plausible. The Secret Service apparently proved the possibility early in their investigation; it just wasn't the explanation being sold by the WC.