Robert Howard

Steven, thank you for your efforts to make the recordings available to more than a select few. There are not an overwhelming number of persons who care enough to do that, and although it is stating the obvious, taking the trouble to advance knowledge of the truth can present difficulties, so even more so, your efforts are noble and well appreciated. I don't tend to get involved in this area, but I once listened to a JFK Library Tape, that contained a conversation, between, [there might have been someone else on the line] John and Robert Kennedy discussing, I believe it was regarding the integration of Ole Miss, regarding providing National Guardsmen to assist the Justice Department in keeping the mobs that had gathered from controlling the media coverage at the front of the University, Katzenbach and Wallace, I think....At any rate the memorable moment was Robert's comment to President Kennedy involving how incredibly slow the response time was on the part of the National Guard and/or other local law enforcement officials to reach the scene. There was an underlying suggestion, at least as how I perceived the tape that the Guard was very sympathetic to the advocates of segregation, and this was long before the assassination. Many commonly held beliefs regarding the number of ideological and literal enemies of the JFK Administration, are totally rejected, if they don't correlate to the official version of the assassination, but I'm sure you already realize that. Thanks again.

I suppose it is a bit of a tease, to post on this thread without having the answer to the identity of the person detained December 1967, but this morning I was perusing some unrelated articles, and was reading about Francis Parker Yockey, who died in June 1960. Instead of meandering through the history of Yockey, although his life story and political ideology are rather mind-boggling to say the least, what drew me to associate Yockey with this thread had to do with the Dallas Morning News account of his arrest by a US attorney in San Francisco and his death six or seven days later. The initial article reporting his arrest was carried in the Dallas Morning News. In an article dated 6-11-1960 on page 11 of the DMN, titled "Mystery Suspect Tied to Anti-Semitic Groups," while Yockey was arrested in the San Francisco area, in a strange twist Yockey’s luggage was found...according to the story, “after an airline traced Yockey’s missing suitcase to Fort Worth and finding in it three passports all with different names— but the same photograph— Yockey’s. According to the article, the specific charge against him was making a false statement in order to obtain a passport.” Then a week later, the story reporting his death Passport Suspect Kills Self in Jail; Dallas Morning News; Date: 06-18-1960; Page: 10; Even after reading about this incident, the account of how his suitcase was located in the Forth Worth area is not adequately explained, in 1960 there were two airports in Fort Worth, Texas, Meacham Field and the airport that would seem to be the one in question, The Greater Fort Worth International Airport. The contents of the suitcase, and the fact that from what I understand, it was an American Airlines pilot who discovered the suitcase, make me wonder if there is more to this incident than what is commonly known. One wonders whether Yockey had relatives or like minded friends in Texas, and why the Morning News referred to him as a mystery man, he wasn't exactly a nobody. See below; Jack Anderson's column he wrote about Yockey. b16f12-0610xdisplay.pdf

Searching googlebooks under simply "Col. Wilmeth," is illuminating. At the risk of banging my own drum, I have mentioned previously the large number of Colonel's in the whole JFK conundrum, which, I suppose, is neither here nor there if one views the Paine/Wilmeth/Oswald dynamic, in isolation. Even the most dispassionate individual would have to consider in light of Col. Orlov's friendship with George DeMohrenschildt and that first meeting with Marina Oswald, some semblance of a "what a retrospective look at Dallas before the assassination being more than what is known," even in 2013. The Wars of Myron King: A B-17 Pilot Faces WWII and U.S.-Soviet Intrigue ... Chapter 12 - Orchestrating A Court-Martial James L. McDonough - 2009 - 246 pages It was about this time within a couple of days at the very latest that Lieutenant Colonel Wilmeth learned that among several incidents generating Soviet displeasure with American servicemen in territory under Soviet control was Wilmeth's own failure, more than once to leave Lublin when requested to do so by the Soviets. Without a doubt, based on several cables based on the USMM and Poltava, dated April 9 and 10 this matter was weighing on Wilmeth’s mind.....[General Deane appointed Wilmeth as Judge Advocate General in the King Trial...] Fort Worth Star-Telegram (TX) - July 22, 1997 James D. Wilmeth FORT WORTH - James D. Wilmeth, 86, a retired Army colonel, died Sunday, July 20, 1997, in Fort Worth. Funeral: 11 a.m. Tuesday at Greenwood Funeral Home. Burial: Greenwood Memorial Park. Col. Wilmeth was born Oct. 30, 1910, in Ballinger. He was a graduate of Fort Worth Central High School, the United States Military Academy at West Point and the University of Texas at Austin. Col. Wilmeth served in World War II in North Africa and in Europe and was also a member of the U.S. Military Mission to Moscow. He also served in Korea and Japan. He was awarded the Army Commendation Ribbon with one Oak Leaf Cluster, the Bronze Star Medal, the American Campaign Medal, the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal, European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal, the World War II Victory Medal, the Army of Occupation of Germany Medal and the Army of Occupation of Japan Medal. After his retirement from the military he was a professor of Russian at the University of Texas at Arlington for 17 years and established the Russian Language and Soviet Studies program. After his retirement from UTA, he and his wife traveled extensively throughout the United States, Canada, Europe, Asia and Australia. Mr. Wilmeth was a member of Hemphill Presbyterian Church. Survivors: Wife, Frankie K. Wilmeth of Fort Worth; son, James D. Wilmeth Jr. of Scottsdale, Ariz.; and nephews, R. Drew Furguson and wife, Jody Anderson, of Fort Worth and Jerry Knoll and wife, Dianne, of Oklahoma City, Okla. Greenwood Funeral Home 3100 White Settlement Road, 336-0584. And so it goes.......when Oswald returned from the Soviet Union in June 1962, the person who met him at the pier was Spas Raikan, of the Travelers Aid Society who ostensibly had been asked by the State Department to meet the Oswald's; American Friends of the Anti-Bolshevik Nations.To me the Wilmeth/Paine contact is more of the same......

Although, my terminology could be better, regarding the idea that there is a Second Coming, and differentiating between a mass charade, ostensibly out of the CIA's bag of tricks, the former would be to the third millenium what Lansdale in his most out-of-this world version in the early 1960's was. I have no doubt if the "real thing" happens in my lifetime...to paraphrase Robin Williams, "When he comes back, he's not going to look like Dan Fogleberg, oh no, he will be a big black man named Jesse."

I do not have Volume 2 of Caro's book, which would cover the period in question, from a search, it looks like the most specific account outside of what I would imagine is at the LBJ Library, [possibly George Ball's book], are pages 322-23 of Merle Miller's Lyndon: An Oral Biography, although the person who was visited does not seem to be included. The accounts, in chronological order are of George Ball, Liz Carpenter, Bill Moyers and Hale Boggs.

Getting back to the topic, it seems Joachim Joesten was quite a sensation, and not in a good way, around the time his writings were getting published, the link below indicates Zurich, Switzerland at the time was, arguably just as perilous, for Joesten as the events taking place at the time in New Orleans were for the doubters of the "Warren Commission, and related events. See https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62388&relPageId=193

I am just as much a believer that there are some proverbial "factoids" that even as of 2013 would be considered as "really big news," in relation to the Kennedy Era. There is one area that has the potential for that type of thing with regards to the Paine family. Veteran Forum members may remember the allegations of Robert Doran. He was the individual who believed that a couple were at Carswell Air Force Base given practically carte blanche there at the base. One read, which is the ultimate book about the Pentagon and the author is no slouch, his father was the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency when President Kennedy was in office. House of War is more than just an interesting book, it, and I am not even remotely exaggerating Carroll, dispassionately re-writes the history of the American military conflicts from World War II to the infamous conflicts of the last decade. Imagine this scenario in relation to Robert Doran's allegations, and I am not endorsing his testimonial at all, but simply giving an account of the official history of Pentagon operations at the time of "Operation Top Hat." Digressing for a moment, if one takes the time to go back and read some earlier posts on this Forum, one post in particular has to do with the Military operations entitled the "Woods Hole Summer Study," as a matter of fact a piece of information on this topic was sitting on JFK's death the day he was assassinated in Dallas, if not mistaken. Would it be an interesting factoid to know the following [see CD 421] page 2, LYMAN PAINE according to CUMMINS was a very talented and gifted person in the fields of art, music, literature and architecture and had a very promising career with Delano and Aldrich Architects, in New York until the time of his divorce.... page 3, CUMMINS stated that he hardly knew MICHAEL or RUTH HYDE PAINE but had met them at MICHAEL’s mothers summer residence at Woods Hole, Massachusetts, about five years ago. He said he always felt MICHAEL and his brother had been injured by their parent’s divorce. “The biggest tragedy of my divorce was that I never got to know MICHAEL.” end One of those ever popular “The Commies Did It,” right-wing publications mentions Hsue-Shen Tsien, he was actually Doctor Hsue-shen Tsien. FBI 62-109090 Warren Commission HQ File, Section 27 pg 152 rocket crew was Hsue-Shen Tsien who fled Cal Tech and the USA In 1955 for Red China and is now being credited as one of the major scientists behind the Red China a-bomb and perhaps missile delivery technology. from OCT-NOV 1965 The Ledger see https://www.maryferr...9&relPageId=150 Referencing the same book; pages 16, 19, 22, 25, 32, 34n. Harnessing the Genie, Zorn writes of a scientific military group that went to Switzerland in the immediate aftermath of the end of hostilities after the collapse of Nazi Germany and its subsequent surrender. He writes “ Getting back to Operation TOP HAT in House of War, Caroll recounts that the operations central issue was in addressing the fact that our military bases were so unsecured and vulnerable to being individually taken out through kidnapping and methods of that nature that arguably we would be vulnerable to “not being able to launch a first-strike in the event of a chain of events leading to global war.” And so OPERATION TOP HAT’s main thrust was....? In the words of Carroll....... “This was a Vulnerability Test Program in which American OSI agents committed acts of low-level sabotage against such facilities of the Strategic Air Command, to expose the chinks in its armor.” The conceptualization that brought about TOP HAT was that the brain trust, a mix of Kennedy's Defense Secretary, McNamara discovered that American Air Force bases were very vulnerable to sabotage, that could prevent the ability, to respond to an ostensible Soviet military provocation, with OSI as the catalyst for changing that, to securing all bases. According to the author James Carroll, Operation Top Hat came to a climax on July 17, 1957. Key point obviously, is whether the Pentz's were Michael and Ruth Paine, and whether OPERATION TOP HAT was still active in Doran's narrative, or an even third possibility that Operation TOP HAT had already been shut down and that the account is as real as "the cow jumped over the moon" fable.Doran wrote regarding the Pentz hijinks at Carswell, “these events continued from late 1959 until I left Carswell in February1961.” For those unfamilar with the gist of “The Odd Couple at Carswell,” an ostensibly married couple, husband named David Michael Pentz; Doran stated he could not remember the name of David Pentz's wife but that Doran’s wife believed it was “Linda.” I still am unsure about Robert Doran’s account, for one the timeline doesen't seem to line-up. I still believe it could all be a red-herring, but, the main point I wanted to make is “there was an OSI investigation ran by the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency whose activities mirror the allegations made by Pentz in his article," whether Doran’s article is true, disinformation or a combination of the two, I do not profess to know. see http://www.maryferre...54&relPageId=12 end

I would rather post this and it turn out to be a dead-end, than not post it and there turn out to be something to it. I think Felipe Vidal Santiago is one of those names that generates quite a bit of interest, so you can imagine a Iran-Contra related report which lists a Larry Huff being with the former as being worth a mention. The whole same name phenomena is old hat, but better safe than sorry. https://www.maryferr...sPageId=1605172 A little more information..... Idaho Spokesman-Review (Coeur d'Alene, ID) - May 23, 2003 Deceased Name: Larry Huff ATHOL, IDAHO Service for Larry C. Huff, 71, will be today at 3 p.m. at English Funeral Chapel in Coeur d'Alene. Burial will be Wednesday at 1 p.m. at Tahoma National Cemetery in Kent, Wash. Mr. Huff, who was born in Spokane, died Tuesday. He made a career with the Marine Corps until his retirement and then moved to North Idaho. In 1974 he married Gloria Portrey. They lived in Pinehurst for nine years before moving to Athol 18 years ago. He was a lifetime member of the Disable American Veterans. Survivors include his wife; three sons, Gary Huff of Dallas, Jeffrey Huff of Honolulu and Kevin Huff of Sandpoint; two daughters, Debra Holmes of Boise and Marla Huff of Athol; two sisters, LaVonne Yount of Yuma, Ariz., and Kay Campbell of Loveland, Colo.; and 13 grandchildren. See below https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=83&relPageId=547 Gloria Deane Huff of Pinehurst, Idaho Robert: I don't know just how worked up one should be about all of this, in light of the big picture; which is the "alleged" flight to Japan, left in its wake a document which showed what Oswald's activities were [associations, activities etc.] and a psychological profile. If true, the bottom line is ultimately another document missing. So as pathetic as the idea of trying to muddle the waters is, you have to ask the question, were the Huff's sincere in their allegations, or just another one of god only knows how many red-herrings that have taken place about the assassination. It certainly makes one understood the importance of being able to differentiate between who can be trusted and who is just spinning and dissembling. The ultimate big picture to veteran researchers is the fact that every single investigation; Warren Commission, HSCA, & even AARB, which wasn't an investigation per se, were politically correct, and always flubbed it when the chips were down.

A G-Man’s Journal - Oliver “Buck” Revell w/Dwight Williams - Pocket Books - 1998 page 18, For the next few days we surveilled the activity of the Soviet ships and missile sites, quietly watching on as they floated their devastating cargo back across the Atlantic. The world had been brought back from the brink of thermonuclear war; the nations frayed nerves, however wouldn’t quell so easy. For the next few weeks we continued our surveillance of the island, but after a month and a half of being on station, the USS Okinawa began to run short on fuel and supplies. That’s when we received welcome news. We would be arriving at Mayport Naval Station just outside Jacksonville, Florida, in three days. Everyone, the skipper promised, would get at least twenty-four hours of shore leave. As soon as I was ashore, I called Sharon where she was staying with her folks in Mars Hill, North Carolina, a small town in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains. When she answered, my legs went weak. She was utterly surprised to be hearing from me, thinking I was still off the coast of Cuba. I quickly asked her if she could come down and spend a day on the beach here in Jacksonville, as this could be the last time I would see her in months. She could leave our baby with her folks, and we could have just a few hours together. If there was any way in the world to do it, she said, she would. And she did. She took an eighteen-hour bus ride straight south, and we spent the next twenty-four hours together. What followed was the best second honeymoon a couple could ever want. page 21, Soon thereafter I returned to the New River Air Facility in North Carolina, and my duties settled into more routine matters. But I would never forget what happened that October of 1962. Nor would the country, as the armed services remained in constant readiness. The Cuban Missile Crisis was one of those events that defined the times like no other. Nearly every day I flew training missions while the country navigated itself through the height of the cold war. Though we lived with this invisible threat, the world seemed a quieter place in the aftermath of that October. At least it seemed that way until one cool November day. As I look back on it today, that afternoon has a strange clarity. In my minds eye the sky is clear and impossibly blue, the helicopter, the VIP aircraft of Marine Air Group Twenty-six, gleaming on the tarmac, its leather interior freshly polished. Once we took off and picked up our passenger, the Assistant Commanding General of the Second Division, I flew over the coast along the Eastern seaboard, the sea and sky fantastically clear below and beneath me. Then came a strangely urgent signal over the radio. It was news from Dallas. John Fitzgerald Kennedy had been hit by an assassin’s bullet.......... page 20, Then a moment later there was a commotion and a single pop! "He's been shot!" I shouted. Within a few seconds the commentator confirmed this with the same exclamation.......... It was a surreal moment in American history. The country would never again be quite the same. But we had to get on with our lives, and that meant taking care of our two-year-old, Russell, and our two-week-old infant, Jeffrey. For me it also meant flying and conducting judge advocate general (JAG) investigations for the Marine Corps. It would be business as usual.Within a week of Oswald's death, however, something unusual happened. Two FBI agents arrived unannounced at my office in MCAF New River. One of the agents introduced himself as Bill Pierson, the senior resident agent from Jacksonville, North Carolina, a town near the Marine base. We’ve been assigned to investigate the background of Lee Harvey Oswald," he said. “Apparently several Marines who worked with Oswald are assigned here to the air group or the page 21 air station, and we'd like the support of the Marine Corps in finding and interviewing these fellows.” Of course I was amazed. As a young Marine I was also ecstatic at the prospect of being of any assistance at all. Once the effort was approved at Marine headquarters, I learned that I would be the liason to facilitate the investigation at New River. I would not participate directly in the effort; I would not sit in on interviews or research any of the records. But I would one day view my job as a cathartic experience. Little enough could be found on Lee Harvey Oswald, yet it felt good being involved in addressing the mystery of just who this man was. The Marines who had worked with or knew Oswald couldn’t add much to the Bureau’s knowledge of his short and tortured life. But at least a few people at New River could recall Oswald from his days in the Corps. What they had to say seemed to fit the profile of a surly and mentally unbalanced young man. The investigation lasted for only three or four weeks, and the information that spoke most poignantly of Lee Harvey Oswald was that after two courts-martial he had been released from the Marines on a request for a hardship discharge. end Robert: I am not positive but the person who was picked up on November 22, 1963 might have been Brigadier General Paul G. Graham. see General Graham completed the Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., in June 1958; subsequently he was assigned as Officer in Charge, Officer Selection office in New York City until 1961. Promoted to lieutenant colonel in July 1961, he joined the 2d Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, N. C., and served as the Commanding Officer, 2d Reconnaissance Battalion. In June 1962, he was reassigned as the Commanding Officer, 1st Battalion, 2d Marines, which deployed as the Landing Force, 6th Fleet in the Mediterranean. Upon his return to the United States in the early part of 1963, he was assigned as the Assistant G-3, 2d Marine Division. see https://slsp.manpower.usmc.mil/gosa/biographies/rptBiography.asp?PERSON_ID=705&PERSON_TYPE=General

The fact that this article is over three years before the JFK Assassination does not make it irrelevant at all. Why? 1. Because William Harvey was stationed at the CIA station in Italy the day JFK was assassinated. 2. It would also be needful to point out that there was a not so conspicuous arrest of a mob figure, who was in Italy when JFK was assassinated and arrested at the dock when he returned to the United States...he was Angelo Bruno. There is no shortage of JFK assassination documents regarding Angelo Bruno. 3. James Angleton....need I say more, had connections to Italy as well. Throw in the fact that Dallas' high society was connected to Rome to the point of the very definition of "connection," and well, you have some fairly prominent individuals and associations represented.

If anyone thinks that the following isn't relative to the QJWIN, William Harvey, James "Jesus" Angleton area of interest they should probably have their head examined. Dallas Morning News page 1, December 17, 1959 Royalty from Rome to Attend Calyx Club Ball Friday Night. pl_002112013_0831_06168_852.pdf

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/2816/jfksnew.txt AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10117-10118 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 015059 [FOLKDER 3 OF 4] DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE TO : [No To] TITLE : AFTERNOON SESSION DATE : 04/01/1978 PAGES : 17 DOCUMENT TYPE : TESTIMONY SUBJECTS : HSCA; TRAVEL TO CUBA; OSWALD, LEE; POST RUSSIAN PERIOD; TRAVEL; TRIP TO MEXICO; OSWALD, LEE; POST RUSSIAN PERIOD; DESCRIPTION AND.....; ...IDENTIFICATION; AZCUE, EUSEBIO CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/14/1993 COMMENTS : English translation in folder 1 of 4. Includes two (2) copies in Spanish. Box 289. Robert: Well, it seems pretty apparent that according to the layout presented at NARA Azcue's testimony was [at one time?] document wise, split into 4 segments. I run across changed RIF numbers and titles all the time. I have looked for the testimony in question, and am at a loss for why it is so hard to find, unless the 4/1/78 date is not actually the case, which seems doubtful. The only other thing I can think of is that the CIA definitely had an interest in recruiting Senor Azcue even before the assassination....see Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 2: Artime - Barker)/ NARA Record Number: 104-10163-10014 OPERATIONAL CABLE RE RECRUITMENT OF EUSEBIO AZCUE LOPEZ https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=26629 Seems odd his deposition testimony for 4/1/78 is so hard to find.

David, How does it feel to have the emotional maturity of a sixth grader?

Food for Thought: taken from Jack Ruby: Garry Willis and Ovid Demaris page 222 Weissman knows he is being hunted. He has gone to ground. Ruby is wrong about his name. They had asked him to change it, all right, to please some right-wing bigots; but that was too much to ask of him. He was not ashamed of his name. He made damn sure it was on the ad - it would be dangerous to let Larrie get all that notoriety. Let them know Bernie Weisman was a power in the movement. The movement. It looked discredited now. Weissman is hiding and will have to leave Dallas. Ruby is right; there was a plot behind that ad. Big plot. It started in 1962, in a German beer-hall; in Munich, as a matter of fact, just miles from the beer hall where another man's rise to power began.

So, let me get this straight, this is not on any of the tapes, the aide's family didn't consider anything suspicious about it..... Yogi Berra - "It's just like deja-vu all over again."

Due to time constraints, I can't post the new material I have, but will later this weekend, but I wanted to give a heads-up to others who are interested in this thread that the new post didn't go unnoticed on my part. I do suggest to Bill Simpich that he look into documents pertaining to Mexico City ie Soviet Embassy, regarding Elmer N. Lindsey on June 24-25, 1963 there........

FREDRICKSON, CORA B. (MRS. HARRY A.) Sources: World Book Year Book (picture) Mary's Comments: Hit Adlai Stevenson with sign on 10/25/63. Harry A. Fredrickson was Chairman of Board of YMCA in 1963. HATFIELD, ROBERT EDWARD Sources: Dallas Times Herald, 5/21/64 Mary's Comments: Married salesman, 21 or 22 yrs old. Spits on Adlai Stevenson 10/25/63. Don’t know if the “married salesman” was also attending a college, but in Darwin Payne’s Big D, p.311 he wrote: Police arrested the woman who had hit Stevenson, but soon released her at the Ambassador’s request. They apprehended and jailed the college student. The Trade Mart individuals on 11/22/63 are below. ARRESTS AT MARKET HALL (ACROSS FROM TRADE MART) 11/22/63, ----- ----- Sources: WC Vol. 21, p. 577; WC Vol. 25, p. 856, CD 1444, p. 4 (telephone log) Mary's Comments: William Lee Cummings, age 17, 2502 Waldon/Waldrun Drive, Grand Prairie Gene Audri Guinn, age 31, 636 Lacewood, Dallas, TX Bobby Savelle Joiner, age 34, 1725 Armstead, Grand Prairie, TX Gary Dwayne Joiner, age 17, 2502 Waldon/Waldrum Dr., Grand Prairie, TX Roy Eugene Joiner, age 17, 2413 Christopher, Grand Prairie, TX I would say there is a fairly good probability that if there were other persons who were picketing at the Stevenson incident, but that is sheer conjecture, as I have never seen any government documents reference the Stevenson incident as far as individuals causing all the trouble. The whole CUSA angle; Burley, Weissman and Schmidt is a thought, as well as the fact that the women in Dallas were just as vociferous as the men, with the exception of firearms training, that is another factor to consider, as far as parties concerned. The surname Joiner [oil guy] connects to H. L. Hunt, he was called "Dad" Joiner. FWIW Robert Hatfield seems like an obvious selection for a possible Denton connection, Although after viewing the URL below, that seems a little dicey..... more Bill: I am fairly sure you have heard of Arch Kimbrough, a Dallasite at the time of the JFK assassination of JFK, he and attorney Minor Morgan went to the U.S. attorney in Dallas, sharing what they felt were important facts that could be relevant to the assassination, I am fairly certain Kimbrough did a lot of research for Mary Ferrell, on the database and chronologies on her website, at any rate, Kimbrough did some digging on Robert Hatfield; he came up with the following. See the link. https://www.maryferr...0&relPageId=223 Note: If you go back five or six previous pages from the URL above, it details his work in this regard, although the document prefaces Kimbrough's belief that there was a possible Castro-conspiracy, nonetheless, he has information regarding, for example TSBD employee Jack Daugherty, so he was, in my mind, no slouch. But here is the most pertinent item I have found so far: Dallas Morning News; Date: 12-17-1963; Page: 16; Plea due on Adlai Encounter; pl_001292013_0922_11851_627.pdf

After further review..... 1029. Commission Document 1033 - FBI Letterhead Memorandum of 25 May 1964 HOUSTON 2 pages re: Oswald - Russia/Cuba......... On May 19, 1964 a confidential source advised that one Marty (Martin) Abelow was formerly employed at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), Houston, Texas. He stated Abelow was originally employed by Lockheed Aircraft Corporation but was on special assignment at NASA. He has since returned to regular employment at Lockheed, and is stationed with that company in Sunnyville, California. Source stated that while Abelow was employed in Houston he made a trip to New Orleans and to the best of source’s recollection this was about the same time that Oswald was in New Orleans distributing Fair Play for Cuba literature. Source stated that Abelow brought back several items of this type from New Orleans and exhibited them to individuals at NASA. He stated on one occasion he heard Abelow state that he should probably furnish these items to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Source also advised that Abelow made a trip to Mexico at a time he felt was approximately the same time that Oswald was in Mexico City. He stated he did not recall the exact times. Source stated he also recalls that Abelow also made frequent weekend trips to Dallas, Texas where he claimed he had an uncle residing. Source stated that although he has no indication that Abelow was acquainted with Oswald, he thought that the possibility did exist and for that reason he was furnishing this information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its investigation. Robert: The Dallas 1964 Residential White Pages; Page 21, does include one listing under the surname Abelow; see below Col Samuel Z Abelow 5848 DelRoy Dr. EM 8-5903 https://www.maryferr...429&relPageId=2 3 docs at NARA re Abelow none unreleased; LHO, ASSOC, INTV, ABELOW, MARTIN SAMUEL, BKG see 124-10062-10432 related NASA 61 hits typical example of NASA doc RE: EMPLOYMENT OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD AT MICHOUD http://www.nara.gov/...415/jfksnew.txt It will be recalled that a Samuel Martin Abelow advised that in or about June 1963 while on a vacation trip to New Orleans, Louisiana observed a young man distributing Fair Play for Cuba leaflets to a crowd waiting to board a U.S. aircraft carrier......... https://www.maryferr...3&relPageId=128 The guy really gets around kind of like Jack Martin did...... But it definitely should be pointed out, all of the information above comes from the confidential source who may or may not be spouting things that are not true, I say that because, as I recall the whole NASA Oswald episode seemed to go nowhere, but even that aspect was so, because all of the persons that went to work at NASA stated they didn't know anything of significance about Oswald. God knows if they were lying, it wouldn't have been the first time a lie was disseminated in Warren Commission documents. Still, the Colonel Samuel Z. Abelow struck me as making the document's allegations even more compelling. The list of colonels, which I have posted on some thread could fill an entire page, the most notable being GDM's buddy Colonel Orlov....... And one final thought, the whole David Ferrie to Houston story and Ruby's phone calls to Houston have always seemed to be a episode of sheer frustration in connecting that to JFK's death in Dallas, if you think outside the box, if the informant's allegations are true, someone like Abelow could have been coordinating a very big road to nowhere. But overall, I am just perplexed, to be honest. Note to Bernice: Yes, the big cigar chomper, is indeed Bentley, and he does look happy.... does he not? He should, he is in one of the best assassination-related photographs ever taken courtesy of the daughter and father team, ie Kodachrome slides.....the latter of whom was a military man stationed in Panama.....that Oswald, he had people watching him like a hawk.

According to an endnote in James DiEugenio's Destiny Betrayed, "...researcher Michael Levy has unearthed a Navy Department document which reports that Ruth Paine was requesting information about the family of Lee Harvey Oswald in 1957."[1] It appears this is an area requiring additional research. http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/04th_Issue/painepix.html See [1] DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed, p. 343, n. 22. Robert: Since Jim DiEugenio has updated Destiny Betrayed, maybe there is new information. P.S. Maybe the above had something to do with the snowjob those bastards pulled on Terri Pike, USN.....

Nathaniel, great post! I didn't mean to ignore your previous post. I always appreciate a friendly word. The main reason I wanted to post this was the fact that you mentioned the whole dichotomy between the "lone assassins" and the "lawyers." First, If you ever go back and read about Jack Ruby's attorneys, you might be surprised to see the sheer numerical amount of attorneys involved in his case in their totality. It's more than three or four......lol But mainly, what caught my eye was the mention of the others, Sirhan, and James Earl Ray. A factoid: The only admission Lee Harvey Oswald ever made to investigators after the assassination, was that he admitted he had once been to Tijuana. Some months before Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination, James Earl Ray stated that he had been to Mexico via Tijuana. Coincidence? Linkage? Or something a little more complex? I do not claim to know the answer, but it is, as they say, noteworthy.

America's Rasputin, Walt Rostow & The Vietnam War pp’s. 126-27 Rostow was not vexed by the dramatic turn of events in Saigon, and looked upon Diem's death primarily as an opportunity to up the military ante, rather than as an obstacle to creating a viable South Vietnam. The dual problem that faced U.S. policymakers was to "find ways to close the frontier; and to solve the problem of crystallizing political life around the young modernizing generation, which Diem did not understand, trust or use effectively.” Rostow gave considerably more thought to the first part of the problem, however, than to the rather more complicated second. The strategic hamlet program was the one significant attempt that the Kennedy administration had made to modernize South Vietnam, and that strategy came to an inglorious end. With Diem and Nhu removed from the equation, the systemic the systemic failure of the program to reconnect central government to agrarian South Vietnam became truly apparent: skewed reporting gave way to some hard truths. Rostow was a theorist of Third World modernization, but he consistently failed to provide a credible plan for achieving genuine economic and political progress south of the seventeenth parallel. This was a pointless task, Rostow reasoned, if something was not done to kill north-south infiltration through Laos. Closing the frontier, on the other hand was a problem with which Rostow could associate, as it could be solved by military means alone. Killing infiltrators did not necessitate a complicated dedication to nation building. And so before news of Diem and Nhu's murder had even reached Washington, Rostow wrote to the secretary of state, "Assuming the Saigon coup succeeds. . . I urge that we consider promptly bringing to a head the issue of infiltration [We should] confront Hanoi with the choice of ceasing to operate the war or accepting retaliatory damage in the north." To make certain that Rusk got the point, he reattached his November 28, 1962 "Invade Laos" memorandum, and also sent it to Roger Hilsman, George Ball, and Averell Harriman (a less receptive trio could hardly be imagined). Again, Rostow’s plan to invade Laos and bomb North Vietnam was ignored by Rusk; and it did not even get close to the President’s line of vision. Hilsman recalled that Kennedy at the time thought that “Walt Rostow was laughable on Asia and Vietnam.” In terms of influence and access, November 1963 was a nadir for the chairman of the Policy Planning Council. After a glittering rise through the ranks of academe and government, it was now abundantly clear that Rostow was assuredly not one of the President’s men. An influential voice in 1961, Rostow was a marginal, albeit noisy, figure in 1962 and 1963. In late 1961, Kennedy had decided that Rostow’s anticommunism was simply too strident to have him in the White House. Kennedy was partial to many of Rostow’s ideas, but the ones he liked primarily to Third World modernization, not strategic bombing. It is hard to imagine that Rostow would have prospered during a second Kennedy term. Robert: The other thread on the Forum dealing with the Rostow angle deals with Eugene Rostow and a phone call on, I believe November 24, 1963. This topic not surprisingly, is not covered in Milne's book, as far as I can tell, at all. See below: It appears that the idea of a Presidential commission to report on the assassination of President Kennedy was first suggested by Eugene Rostow, Dean of the Yale Law School, in a telephone call to LBJ aide William Moyers during the afternoon of November 24, 1963. Although the time of this call is missing from the White House daily diary, it is possible to identify the period during which the call was made. Rostow refers to the killing of Oswald, so the call had to be after 2:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the time Oswald was pronounced dead. The call appears in the White House daily diary prior to a conversation at 4:40 P.M, between President Johnson and Governor Pat Brown of California." There is a memorandum which clearly indicates that Rostow called the White House well before 4:00 p.m., EST. end From the Eugene Rostow thread.

America's Rasputin: Walt Rostow and the Vietnam War. - David Milne - New York: Hill and Wang, 2008 http://articles.lati...inion/op-milne2 'America's Rasputin' lives again Today's neocons echo Walt Rostow, the liberal ideologue who guided the U.S. into an ill-fated war in Southeast Asia. It was apt of President Bush to invoke the specter of the Vietnam War in his recent comments on Iraq, because his ill-fated activism in the Middle East is so clearly reminiscent of U.S. policy in the 1960s, when taking the good fight to America's "Third World" enemies was all the rage. Then, as now, self-assured foreign policy intellectuals played a crucial role in driving the United States toward intervention in an intractable conflict thousands of miles from Washington. One of the key members of John F. Kennedy's and Lyndon B. Johnson's inner circle was Walt Rostow, whose contributions to the making of the Vietnam War bear striking similarities to the role played by Paul Wolfowitz in strategizing the American invasion of Iraq. Possessed of a brilliant mind, a Yale PhD, noble intentions and an unwavering belief in himself, Rostow was a decorated OSS agent during World War II who established a global reputation as an economic development theorist at MIT in the 1950s. As a speechwriter for President Eisenhower, he worked tirelessly to convince him that increasing America's foreign aid budget was morally imperative in a time of economic abundance -- not to mention tactically essential in an age of a global Cold War. Although Eisenhower was unmoved by Rostow's call for a global New Deal, his successor was not. When Kennedy took office, he appointed Rostow as his deputy national security advisor, hoping that the 44-year-old economist would help ensure that the poor nations in the developing world stuck with Washington and avoided flirtation with Moscow or Beijing. Rostow's appointment was celebrated by liberals and mourned by fiscal conservatives, who were concerned that combating communism through the eradication of poverty would not come cheap. His friends joked that Rostow envisioned "a TV set in every thatched hut." Rostow was adamant that the United States had a duty to help modernize the Third World, but he was equally determined to eradicate what he described as the "disease" of communism wherever it threatened the liberal societal progress he viewed as morally superior and historically preordained. The ultimate "Cold War liberal," Rostow was the most hawkish civilian member of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations with respect to the unfolding conflict in Vietnam. In the summer of 1961, he became the first civilian to advise Kennedy to deploy U.S. combat troops to South Vietnam and the first to recommend the bombing of the North. Rostow reasoned that airborne destruction would crush Hanoi's resolve because "Ho Chi Minh has an industrial complex to protect; he is no longer a guerrilla fighter with nothing to lose." Rather than serving his country primarily as a catalyst for Third World development, Rostow ended up recommending the brutal bombing of a developing nation and was a chief architect of America's worst-ever military defeat. Enamored of the quality of his own counsel -- he was serene in argument because he was so certain he was right -- Rostow framed a policy of military escalation, manipulated CIA field reports to provide Johnson with a more positive spin on U.S. military prospects and then, through 1967 and 1968, advised Johnson against pursuing a compromise peace with North Vietnam. An irrepressible Pollyanna, Rostow utterly failed to visualize the possibility of defeat even when it became imminent. A true ideologue, he believed that it was beholden on the United States to democratize other nations and do "good" no matter the cost. The man charged by Johnson with the task of negotiating an end to the Vietnam War was W. Averell Harriman -- a former governor of New York, ambassador to the Soviet Union and one of American history's most celebrated diplomats. While Harriman urged the president to stop bombing North Vietnam to facilitate an open dialogue, Rostow, by his own admission, could see "no link between bombing and negotiations." Appalled by the hypnotic effect that Rostow's hard-edged advice exerted on an increasingly beleaguered Johnson, Harriman described LBJ's national security advisor as "America's Rasputin." In recent times, the Bush administration has taken up Rostow's internationalist, crusading mantle and has run with it to potent effect. Wolfowitz and other neoconservatives have been identifiably Rostovian with respect to their reading of international relations: that it is the responsibility of the United States, as the world's most powerful nation, to democratize and do "good" -- at the point of a bayonet, if necessary. All seem influenced by the Enlightenment philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau's illiberal injunction that freedom does not necessarily arise from free will: "Whoever refuses to obey the general will shall be forced to be compelled to do so by the whole body. This means nothing else than that he will be forced to be free." Yet the path that the ancient Greeks charted from hubris to nemesis remains as seamless as ever; those individuals who have absolute confidence in the efficacy of their ideas -- who fail to account for real-world contingencies -- invariably lead U.S. foreign policy down blind alleys. To be fair, Rostow, and today's neoconservatives as well, have been proved right on some of the great issues of the 20th century. Marxism-Leninism was indeed a morally abhorrent system that extinguished liberty, stifled creativity and failed to provide adequate benefits to its people. Liberal capitalism "won" the Cold War, and democracy has indeed proved itself worthier than any other form of government. Yet the policy of intervening abroad to instill these values in others has produced decidedly mixed results. Rostow, Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and others believe in the redemptive powers of liberal capitalism in the same way evangelical Christians believe in God; they act as if their value system is divinely authored and view deviations from the righteous path as heresy. But might not the heretics come around to the West more enthusiastically if the United States acted as an exemplar, rather than a militarized agent for change? Tin-pot dictators often lose their mystique when they do not have an enemy to confront. Rostow vacated his office in the White House on Jan. 28, 1969, and President Nixon's national security advisor, Henry Kissinger, moved in the following day. The two intellectuals were similar in many respects. Both hailed from humble Jewish backgrounds, and both attained success at the pinnacle of American academia. Kissinger nonetheless took U.S. diplomacy down a very different path. While Rostow stressed the opportunities for doing good that came with international preeminence, Kissinger focused on the limitations of America's vast though finite resources. While Rostow thought that the American people should pay higher taxes to finance the nation's global mission, Kissinger believed, as a classic foreign policy "realist," that dishing out money to advance "values" was no substitute for nuanced diplomacy. What happens next in U.S. diplomacy is anyone's guess, but there is a distinct possibility that history will repeat itself and America will move toward a more modest role in the world. After a period of frenetic activism on the international stage, it appears highly probable that President Obama, Clinton, Giuliani or Romney will look to a pragmatist -- a George Kennan or a Kissinger -- rather than an ideologue like Rostow or Wolfowitz for foreign policy advice. Spreading good is an exhausting business, and America's exertions in Iraq are having serious political repercussions in the homeland. END A passage: page 53, In 1954, he [C.D. Jackson] moved promptly to enlist Rostow's assistance in combating the communist offensive. Jackson had known Rostow since 1952, when he invited Rostow to speak at Princeton to the National Conference for a Free Europe, an organization of which he was President. A strong believer that intellectuals had a crucial role to play in shaping U.S. diplomacy, Jackson hoped to smooth the route through which good ideas entered the stream of policy making. He once remarked perceptively that "great ideas need landing gear as well as wings. Through Jackson, Rostow moved toward the center of power in Washington. Jackson charged Rostow with the task of providing a radical alternative to Eisenhower's pre-Dien Phu propagation of a limited foreign-aid policy. The president's four key points had earlier been presented in the following poetic quartet: Aid - which we wish to curtail Investment- which we wish to encourage Convertibility -which we wish to facilitate Trade - which we wish to expand Unrelated thought for the day: Sen. Rand Paul to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, today at the Benghazi hearings: “Had I been president at the time [of the attacks on the American embassy in Libya], I would have relieved you of your post,” the freshman senator from Kentucky said. Paul's comment was a disgraceful statement that would have made the late muckracker Senator Joe McCarthy proud. As one writer wrote at Vanity Fair: If Rand Paul had been president at any time, a lot of people would have removed themselves from their posts.

In the 1964 Dallas White Pages, there is a John M. Liggett listed in the directory. Name Address Phone Bill Liggett 6245 Ravendale Lane 214 TA4-2376 Doctor D.G. Liggett Bus. Meadows Bdlg 214 EM3-4445 residence 3032 Copenhl 214 AD9-2117 Dwight Liggett 6930 Woodard 214 EV1-1001 Elaine Liggett 6930 Woodard 214 EV1-1001 Faucher Liggett 318 Hill 214 AN2-8880 Frances A Liggett 3507 Travis St 214 LA8-8694 John M. Liggett 900 W. Spring Valley Lane 214 AD1-1373 Wilma Mae Liggett 2213 N. Henderson 214 T17-1805

Overlap in the context of political murder, is a slippery slope. I have always had an acute interest in the goings-on of the Ku Klux Klan in 1963, for reasons which I do not believe need to be enumerated. Terri's account of the Klan and her personal memories deserve to be given at least the respect accorded even by conservative standards, the respect given to someone who is sincerely given 'the benefit of the doubt.' But my purpose is not to get into a debating match over the merits of a forum visitor, but to point out that there is a large amount of those who have made their life's journey, or a great part of it getting to the essence of the events regarding President Kennedy's death. One constant amongst those who have dug deeper is that a political assassination of the magnitude of a president in the "modern-era," is that there is no previous model to follow, the last presidential assassination resulting in the death of a President was that of McKinley, Truman at Blair House, obviously was botched and of-course no death. So, regarding JFK there are "black-ops" of that time, particularly mind-control operations and other areas of importance; organized crime, the Cuba angle, evidence of nefarious activity even within the President's cabinet, the latter being so close to the epicenter of American government, and which have always generated the most controversy, as well as the most bitter media reactions because the smoke is there, and the fact that there are still classified documents only adds to the feeling of futility among those who tend to be open to realities that are not politically correct. The point of all this in relation to the right-wing is to say that 50 years later, the areas of interest are intertwined on some level, I have repeatedly echoed my belief that one of the reasons, which accounts for the confusion, is that when scouring these various areas, I stipulate that we are not looking at one "massive plot" but, that, at least some of the factual information involves persons seeking JFK's death who were plotting, but were beat to the punch. Chicago, Miami, and Dallas are the telltale signs that one group was the mechanism for 11/22/63, but the analogy I would make is that in looking at all the events of 1963 involving the assassination of JFK as a whole, is like looking at a photo of a jigsaw puzzle one is trying to piece together and realizing that, you do not have too few pieces, but too many. Which is not to say that in the overall equation, there are no missing pieces, ostensibly there are by virtue of the fact there are still classified documents. Concluding: If you have the belief that there is a "overlap" in the JFK assassination, the idea that organized crime figures, say with right-wing Klan figures, in this case Mississippi, should not be taken as a "reach," but as a reflection of the reality of the event being addressed: So, take a look at the document below, from the Criminal Intelligence Program in Dallas, connecting to Mississippi. Even though it is not dated November 1963, it is evidence that there was an inter-connection, if you accept the premise I am trying to establish. https://www.maryferr...do?docId=141360 Cheers

Posted Earlier I see a basic contradiction in the idea that Lemnitzer and others in the military wanted to launch a pre-emptive strike against the Soviet Union in the early 1960s. The Russians served the MIC well as a bogeyman for the many long years of the Cold War. When the Soviet Union finally collapsed, there was no bogeyman already in place to immediately replace the Russians. It took a while to develop the militant Islamic fundamentalists, personified in Bin Laden, as the new bogeyman, good for decades to come if not till Armageddon. So I find it difficult to understand why Lemnitzer and others wanted to kill off the golden goose right away by obliterating Russia back in the 1960s. I realize that the cost in U.S. casualties in a nuclear exchange meant nothing to them, but what would the MIC then have done without Russia? My answer would be that the desire on the part of the Pentagon hierarchy to utterly destroy the Soviets is well documented in House of War, the author is the son of the late James Carroll, who was the first director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and was not too happy about the assassination of President Kennedy. It is hard to read the book and not surmise that James Carroll and his son both had suspicions about the character, or lack thereof, of General LeMay. As the author is James P. Carroll's son, reading the book is not unlike the book In The Boat with LBJ, written by the son of J. Waddy Bullion, an LBJ attorney, in the sense that both sons by no means wore rose colored lenses with regards to the possibility or even probability of conspiracy. But to get back to the concept of why the Pentagon was not reticent about no longer having to deal with "Godless communism, of the Bolshevik variety, east of Germany, in the words of Charlie Sheen......."winning." I have been reading House of War for several weeks, it is in my view the most important book about U.S. Military history in the 20th Century, not only that has been written, but will ever be written. I have never said that about any book I have ever read in my entire life. It literally exposes the fact that the post-World War II mindset in America both politically and militarily, as having no scruples whatsoever in risking a nuclear exchange, I could go on and on; as a added feature the chronology covered includes the administration of George W. Bush, in as much detail as the era of the Truman/Eisenhower/JFK era from 1945-1963. Regarding Lyman Lemnitzer the following is from a very detailed segment of Executive Privilege - Two Centurys of White House Scandals - Jack Mitchell He is basically summing up a less than flattering scandal of the JFK Administration, but it is not done in the extreme character assassination of say, a book like Reckless Youth or The Dark Side of Camelot. In other words he is even-handed and the negatives are more in conjunction with the less flattering aspects of the JFK Administration that John F. Kennedy, the man. When reading below remember this book was released in 1992 With regard to Lemnitzer, Mitchell wrote.... The president faced a much worse problem at the Pentagon. The award of the biggest military plane contract in history gave rise to political double-dealing and bureaucratic lying which would stretch on for years and cost the taxpayers perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars. "TFX" were initials which became almost as famous as the president's for a time. They stood for a line of air force and navy fighter planes whose development and construction contracts totaled $6.5 billion dollars, a plum which could keep any major defense contractor's plants humming for a decade or more. The coveted prize was urgently sought by two giants of the defense industry, Boeing and General Dynamics. The immensely profitable bottom line made the award much more than a routine procurement, which is why Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist Clark Mollenhoff devoted months to the unfolding story. Thousands of present and future jobs were at stake, and powerful politicians lined up behind the companies, each hoping to have a hand in directing the government's largesse to his home area. Since this single decision would commit the Defense Department to an entire generation of fighter planes, the Pentagon's planners had exhaustive studies performed to match the Boeing blueprints and test models against General Dynamics. Rumors of behind-the scenes political pressure being applied from Texas surfaced during the months before the final award was made, but few on Capitol Hill took the warnings seriously. Nothing seemed amiss when Pentagon spokesmen announced in November 1962 that General Dynamics had won out. That choice sent shock waves through the Defense Department, however; knowledgeable military analysts knew that all their internal studies had showed Boeing's to be the better cheaper plane by far. Seattle-based Boeing's champion, Washington Senator Henry Jackson, was told privately that four different studies had ended with the same verdict: Boeing's planes were superior, and their price was as much as $400 million dollars lower than General Dynamics'. The influential "Scoop" Jackson sicced his crack investigative staff on the Pentagon planners and soon learned that internal documents proved what the critics had told him off-the-record--even the Pentagon source selection board, composed of non-partisan experts, had chosen Boeing. Further sleuthing, uncovered the fact that the bespectacled, intellectual secretary of Defense, former whiz-kid Robert McNamara, had signed off on the controversial award for reasons which appeared to be almost nonsensical under close scrutiny. The slick-haired McNamara had earned a well deserved reputation for being a determined, if not savage, cost-cutter as a bigwig at General Motors. Why would he permit the virtually unanimous recommendations of his own blue-ribbon plans to be ignored? Disturbingly, Senate accountants found major errors in the documentation which McNamara had submitted in support of his decision. Classified data confirmed the growing suspicions; political influence or outright incompetence was at the bottom of this overturned rock. Hard pressed by a usually fawning press corps, Kennedy assured questioners that McNamara had acted in the taxpayer's interest. As it turned out that wasn't true, nor was it all the tightly wrapped defense chief's fault. Two of his top subordinates had grossly violated conflict-of-interest laws which the president himself had instituted to prevent money-grubbing in high-office, conflicts which had humiliated Eisenhower frequently. One of the culprits was McNamara's chief aide, Deputy Secretary of Defense Roswell Gilpatric. In and out of the revolving door between industry and government for years, the New York lawyer's firm had served as counsel to General Dynamics, which was in dire financial straits and desperately needed the TFX bonanza to avoid having to flirt with bankruptcy. Blithely ignoring the new ethics rules, Gilpatric, a key player in the TFX decision, convinced his boss to overrule the recommendations of no less than four selection boards, which were all in favor of Boeing, and grant approval instead to the more costly General Dynamic's plane. Gilpatric then shamelessly pushed congressional committees for an immediate signing of the controversial contract, before the deal could be closely examined. The conflict-of-interest was even more serious in the case of the second McNamara lieutenant, Navy Secretary, Fred Korth, a Fort Worth banker and crony of Vice-President Lyndon Johnson. Korth's bank had loaned money to General Dynamics, and that should have raised a red flag right there. Like Gilpatric, Korth recommended that millions of dollars worth of in-depth analysis be ignored. Unlike his Pentagon ally, however Korth had the abysmally bad judgement to allow lobbyists for General Dynamics to visit his Pentagon office frequently during the months when the TFX contract was under completion. To top it off, Korth repeatedly wrote letters on official navy stationery promoting the bank's business, after claiming he had severed the relationship. He'd also taken his bank's customers for rides on the navy's yacht Sequoia, congressional staffers discovered. These embarrassing revelations forced the White House to seek Korth's resignation, which he tendered with the face-saving explanation that he had to attend to "pressing business affairs." Even then, Kennedy's aides disingenuously sought to defuse the departure by leaking a story that Korth was quitting over a policy dispute, on an unrelated matter. Gilpatric stayed at his post for a while, then left the government to rejoin his law-firm. Despite the flap, the iron-willed McNamara stuck to his original, unpopular decision to allow General Dynamics to build the planes. Years later, in the Johnson administration, it would become painfully apparent that the TFX boondoggle had more than doubled the cost to the taxpayers. Robert: There is something of a follow-up to this episode, which concerns Fred Korth and some other sordid details see my post entitled Navy League in Puerto Rico on May 1, 1963 http://educationforu...showtopic=18911