Robert Howard

Therefore Georg Gordon Wing rode one of two gateway Ramblers during the second half of his lifetime: the Huston-Street Rambler, or the Record Street Rambler. (Note: both cars are documented on film/pic). It is odd that when Researcher Bartholomew was on his heels, Wing died: exact on the day when Oliver Stones JFK was first shown in the US. KK Don't take this personally, but considering the title of your thread, could you provide some type of verification instead of an, at this point, factually unsupported claim. It's not like you are dealing with a triviality. Robert BTW Richard was treated like dirt when he, apparently made the mistake of assuming he was in the company of researchers interested in his article when he appeared here on the Forum, from what I could see at the time, it looked like he ran into a few hotheads, that couldn't bear the fact that he had produced an article that was more than relevant to the assassination, than anything they had done. I should know I was one of the persons who invited him to appear on the forum....and I was embarrassed at the way he was treated, in fact I have never invited anyone else to appear on the Forum since then, although I am glad I invited Bill Kelly to come While awaiting a response, Richard was the first researcher to produce additional relevant factual information not generally known into areas such as LBJ attorney J Waddy Bullion, Collins Radio, Jack Crichton, in which the main previous researcher who had explored these areas was Peter Dale Scott in his unpublished manuscript The Dallas Conspiracy. Questioning, or pointing out mistakes of researchers, is a popular pastime here on the Forum,I understand why that is in a contentious debate where facts are in question, but professionalism or a modicum of decency, would seem to dictate backing up ones assertions with factual references, although more often than not the end result is no good deed goes unpunished.

Question and Answers for Tom Scully...... Tom, I believe you know me well enough that you realize that I believe this thread contains a lot of facts that are much more than "interesting." On that note, and with a specific area in mind.....you do know about Mrs John L. (Carol) Hughes right? Diagram of Second Floor of TSBD also Carol Hughes (Not on Westphal memo) Warren Commission 6:339; 22:654 http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=486040 excerpts of Warren Commission testimony of Geneva L. Hine Mr. Ball. On the 22nd of November 1963, did you know that there was to be a motorcade or parade come by your building? Miss HINE. Oh, yes, sir. Mr. Ball. How did 'you find that out? Miss HINE. Sir, I don't remember. I probably heard over the news but I cannot remember. Mr. Ball. You were just aware of the fact? Miss HINE. Yes; I knew it and the girls were discussing it in the office that morning. Many of them, probably six, had not seen the President close. You see, I had seen him on two different occasions and I had been very close to him and so they were lamenting that they couldn't go out so I spoke up and said "I will be glad to answer the telephone so you girls may go out and see the motorcade" and I bad previously answered the telephone when we were in the other building before we moved in this building, so they were delighted and I thought nothing about it. Mr. Ball. Did they all go out? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; everyone went out. Mr. BALL. Was there anyone left in the office part of the building on that second floor office? Miss HINE. Only Mr. [Otis] Williams and myself and he stayed with me because he was working on his desk until he thought that the motorcade was about there. Mr. Ball. How many [shots] did you hear? Miss HINE. Three. Mr. Ball. Could you tell where the shots were coming from? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building. Mr. Ball. How do you know that? Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in. Mr. Ball. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building? Mr. Ball. Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. Did you know they were shots at the time? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific. Mr. Ball. That is when you were at the window, is that right? Miss HINE Yes, sir; that is when I was at the window, because the next car, you see, was coming up and turning and I looked. Of course I looked when I heard the shots. I just stood there and saw people running to the east up Elm Street. I saw people running; I saw people falling down, you know, lying down on the sidewalk. Mr. Ball. That was on Houston Street? Miss HINE. No, sir; Elm. Mr. Ball. You could see could you see any part of Elm? Miss HINE. East, yes, sir. Mr. Ball. You could see east on Elm? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I could see east on Elm. I saw them run across east on Elm away from where his car had gone and my first thought was if I could only see what happened, so I went out our front door into the foyer. Mr. Ball. You mean the front door to the office? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. That opens on--- Miss HINE. The foyer, little hall, and--- Mr. Ball. Steps lead down? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company. Mr. Ball. What did you do then? Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Me, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out. Mr. Ball. On to Elm? Miss HINE. Yes; and on to the triple underpass. Mr. Ball. I See. Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn't answer the door. Mr. Ball. Was the door locked? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. That was which company? Miss HINE. Southwestern Publishing Co. Mr. Ball. Did you call to her? Miss HINE. I called and called and shook the door and she didn't answer me because she was talking on the telephone; I could hear her. They have a little curtain up and I could see her form through the curtains. I could see her talking and I knew that's what she was doing and then I turned and went through the back hall and came through the back door. Mr. Ball. Of your office, the second floor office? Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in. Mr. Ball. Did they come in rapidly? Miss HINE They did come in rapidly. Mr. Ball. When you came back in did you see Mrs. Reid? Miss HINE. No, sir; I don't believe there was a soul in the office when I came back in right then. END Room 203 is listed in a JFK Document as, apparently shared between Gloria Calvery Karan Hicks...related to DPD J.B. Hicks, 4318 Matilda who worked under Lt. Day, or Jim Hicks who testified at the Shaw trial and wound up incarcerated at a mental hospital? Carol Hughes Carol Reed Karen Westbrook...related to DPD Captain W.R. Westbrook? see http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=993276 only WC/FBI contact with Mrs. John L. "Carol" Hughes I, Mrs. John L. [Carol] Hughes make the following voluntary statement to Alfred D. Neely who has identified himself as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I am of the Caucasian race, 27 years of age and reside at 510 Glenfield Street, Garland, Texas. I am employed by the South-Western Publishing Co., Room 203 Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas. On November 22, 1963, I went to south window near my desk to watch the Presidential Motorcade passing along at Houston and Elm Streets. I was standing looking out this window when President John F. Kennedy was shot. I was alone in the office as all the other people had gone to the street to watch the Motorcade pass. I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time. I do not know Oswald but I had seen him in the building several times prior to this day. I do not recall seeing any strangers in the building on November 22, 1963. I remained in my office until about 1:30 P.M. when I left for the day and went home. END Not surprisingly, Carol Hughes' appearances in Warren Commission documents and interviews is not exactly "all over the place;" why would that be? In all fairness, non-coincidence theorists might say "the trauma of literally having watched President Kennedy's assassination has different effects on different people, it's not out of the realm of possibility she got on the phone to insulate herself from the trauma of what she had just witnessed." But personally, I find the lack of investigation into this area of what took place in the Depository on November 22, 1963 to be very suspicious and disturbing, and am willing to risk some degree of ridicule in saying so. I did some digging and discovered what strongly appears to be a discrepancy in the Warren Commission documents, unless Mr and Mrs John L. Hughes decided to move four houses down from where they lived sometime in 1963...... FYI: Garland is a suburb in the same manner that Irving or Arlington are 1964 Dallas Residential White Pages Listings page 24 Garland suburban section at back John L Hughes 502 Glenfield Dr BR8-0789 John L Hughes Jr., 502 Glenfield Dr BR8-9744 I also have an obituary collection that has over eighty or so names, I have been unable to find anything about Mr and Mrs. John and Carol Hughes......of course, I also do not have a subscription to newspaperarchive.com Have you ever seen a Carol Hughes referenced in relation to Maury Hughes, Howard Hughes or anyone else? Stabs in the dark..... Dallas Morning News, The (TX) - April 25, 1985 Deceased Name: JUDGE SARAH T . HUGHES DIES Colleagues recall her spunk, grit The life of retired U.S. District Judge Sarah Tilghman Hughes, who died Tuesday at age 88, perhaps is best capsulized by a phrase usually reserved for swaggering, self-assured men lawyers. "She could strut sittin' down,' U.S. District Judge Robert Hill said of his longtime colleague. The tiny woman lawyer from Baltimore kicked Dallas in the shins 40 years ago, got the attention of the Democratic power brokers and became a legislator, state district judge and, finally, in 1961, a federal judge. She was an advocate of women's rights before the cause caught fire and was on the three-judge federal panel that struck down the Texas law banning abortion. "I've always said that she was the most independent individual -- notice I said individual, not woman -- that I ever met in my life,' Hill said. "She didn't lean on anyone; she was a free thinker and would never compromise her beliefs.' She was, in the words of U.S. District Judge Barefoot Sanders, the embodiment of "pure determination.' Even in her 80s, she awoke at dawn and adhered to a strict regimen of exercise, diet, even yoga. Judge Hughes died of heart failure at 9:30 p.m. at Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, said her nurse and friend Betty Cadwell, who was at her side when she died. She had suffered a stroke May 7, 1982, and was thought to be close to death then, Mrs. Cadwell said. But she recuperated and had lived in The Meadowgreen nursing home for much of the last three years. She was hospitalized again Feb. 12 after having a series of "mini-strokes,' Mrs. Cadwell said. Services are scheduled at 11 a.m. Friday at St. Matthews Cathedral, 5100 Ross Ave. Her husband, George Hughes, died in 1964, and she had no immediate survivors. As a federal judge, she was involved in several historic cases, but the brief moment of Nov. 22, 1963, when she stood aboard Air Force One at Love Field and administered the presidential oath of office to Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy is forever etched in the public's memory. She once told one of her law clerks, Joanne Hurtekant: "You know that (the oath to Johnson) is not really what I consider to be the brightest point of my career.' She considered the Sharpstown Bank scandal case of 1971 and her involvement in the improvement of conditions in the Dallas County Jail system of far more significance, Ms. Hurtekant said. And she became a model for women who wanted to enter the law profession. Maura McNiel, a woman's advocate, called Judge Hughes "a formidable force in the women's movement.' When she sat on the bench, she wore the traditional black robe, but in a touch of femininity that few people noticed she had embroidered a tiny red rose on the front of the robe. She was not a soft touch in the courtroom, however, and, in fact, had the reputation of being unusually harsh on white-collar criminals, said Dan Weiser, a Dallas political consultant who knew her well. The high-powered defense and government attorneys in the civil trial of Frank W. Sharp and former Texas Attorney General Waggoner Carr for stock fraud in the Sharpstown scandal did not intimidate her. She lashed out at them in court for dragging out the testimony. "Some lawyers like to talk just to hear themselves talk,' she told the attorneys. "Now let's move along.' Weiser said she stood up for what she believed. "She was really a moral force as much as a legal force in Dallas,' Weiser said. "It was never go-along-to-get-along. Government she believed was for the powerless and the poor. She was very sympathetic to the poor but would often give jail time to white-collar criminals.' Her forthrightness in the courtroom may have shocked the more traditional jurists, but her candor with people came naturally, her colleagues said. In one case she heard seven years ago, a woman defendant pleaded guilty and stood before her for sentencing. Judge Hughes, who had found out the young woman already had seven children, implored the woman not to have any more children and even made that a condition of the woman's probation. The judge then turned to an already bewildered probation officer and said: "And you see that she doesn't get pregnant.' When Mrs. Hughes was nominated to fill an unexpired term as the Dallas County 14th District Court judge in 1935, one state senator from Dallas who opposed her confirmation commented that "she ought to be home washing dishes.' She snapped back that the senator would not have been elected "if his charming wife had been home washing dishes instead of campaigning for him.' She got national press coverage from that exchange by having her photo taken wearing an apron and standing at her own kitchen sink in Highland Park. As a state representative from Dallas from 1931 to 1935 and during the years she sat as a state and federal judge, she was always outspoken. "She exemplified and believed in having the utmost candor,' Judge Sanders said. "She was totally without guile.' City of Dallas officials criticized her for saying in a 1964 speech that she believed accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald chose Dallas for the assassination of President Kennedy, who appointed her, at age 65, to the federal bench, because of "a climate of hate in Dallas that was not evident in any other place.' During her early state court days, she was a leader in giving Texas women the right to sit on juries. She once answered the charge that women were too emotional for jury duty by saying: "Many times I've wished I had a woman on a jury in my court as I watched moon-eyed, gullible men swallow the story of a pretty female witness.' U.S. Rep. Martin Frost, who served as her clerk in 1970, said he believes that Mrs. Hughes, not Sandra Day O'Connor, could have become the first woman U.S. Supreme Court justice had she been born a few years later. "She had just a magnificent legal mind. She was rarely overruled at the appellate level and was considered fair and impartial by all the lawyers who appeared before her,' Frost said. "She made law in several very significant areas, including the right of women to have an abortion in the Roe versus Wade case. And that has been upheld by the Supreme Court.' She never shrank from a controversial issue, he said. Her harsh criticism of the Dallas County Commissioners Court for lagging on her massive 1972 ruling to upgrade facilities and treatment programs for Dallas County jail inmates angered many in Dallas. But she did not back down and ordered the jail closed to new inmates in 1977 until the commissioners showed her a location and plans for a new jail -- which they did just before the deadline she had set. The U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in August 1979 ruled that Judge Hughes had done a good job on the jail reform but ordered her to dismiss the case as finished, voiding her May 1977 ruling. "I did a great deal of work on the jail, and I had hoped to do more . . . I did as much as I could under the circumstances,' she said. She was born Aug. 2, 1896, in Baltimore, and attended Goucher College, a women's college in Maryland, on an academic scholarship. She graduated Phi Beta Kappa with a major in zoology and a minor in mathematics. After graduation, she taught zoology and math in high school for two years, then enrolled in night classes at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. She worked her way through the university's law school as a policewoman in Washington and graduated in 1922. She married George Ernest Hughes -- a Palestine, Texas, native and law school classmate -- that same year. The couple, who had no children, moved to Dallas and opened a law partnership. Mrs. Hughes won a seat in the Texas House the first time out in 1930 and held it for four years. "I'm a good campaigner,' she said in 1981. "When I ran the first time, I visited every small town in my district, every fire station three times because there were three shifts of men working. I went wherever there was a vote. And I only spent $300 for the whole campaign.' She was re-elected to her state district court seat seven times. A lifelong Democrat, the 5-foot judge was described in one news story during the 1940s as "a diminutive bundle of Roosevelt liberalism.' In 1952, while president of the National Federation of Business and Professional Women's Clubs, Judge Hughes was nominated as the vice presidential candidate of the Democratic Party by federation members. She withdrew immediately, feeling the point had been made that women could get that far. In her early political life, she allied herself with influential House Speaker Sam Rayburn of Bonham, Texas, and U.S. Sen. Ralph Yarborough of Texas. When she was nominated to the federal bench by President Kennedy, there was as much opposition to her because of her age -- 65 -- as there was to her liberal views. But the U.S. Senate's confirmation sailed through with the backing of Johnson. Even while on the federal bench she continued to attend partisan political events -- which to her meant liberal, Democratic meetings -- raising eyebrows. But an attitude of "that's Sarah' eventually made it a non-issue. And she could always be found supporting women's causes, having stepped out front for feminism long before it achieved widespread support in the 1970s. In 1975, she retired from trial work to senior judge status at the age of 79 but continued to work on cases, including the Dallas County-jail suit. She presided over much of the three-year federal grand jury investigation of bribery-kickback allegations against the Army and Air Force Exchange Service, and the investigation of charges that a former Frito-Lay executive tried to corner the peanut oil market. She was also involved in a 1978 federal trial of a Richardson "tax protester,' during which she received threats against her life. In August 1981, Judge Hughes stepped down from the trial bench because of an eye disease, but continued arraignments, sentencing and probation revocations. She retired entirely in 1982. In September 1982, she was the recipient of a Dallas Historical Society Excellence in Community Services award for law and law enforcement. She also has been honored by the Women's Center of Dallas, an organization she helped get started. Even while in failing health the past three years, she continued to stay abreast of current issues, said Mrs. Cadwell, her personal nurse. "She loved to have us read political biographies to her. We would read four hours a day,' Mrs. Cadwell said. "Never once in those three years that she was ill did I ever hear her complain or express any regrets about her life.' Family members, including a niece and a nephew, have requested that those wishing to make donations send them to the Sarah T. Hughes Scholarship Fund for Southern Methodist University law students in care of the Dallas Bar Foundation, 2101 Ross Ave. Robert: another obituary mentioned they had no children. end AmericanMafia.com - Feature Articles 208 americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_208.html But, what Ricca needed Dillon for was his close, personnel relationship with President Harry Truman. In 1934, at the personnel request of Missouri crime king, Boss Pendergast, Dillon had acted as Harry Truman campaign manager in his race for the senate. Dillon had also worked as a lawyer for Boss Pendergast, and represented Pendergasts's chief lieutenant, "Smiling Johnny" Lazia, on an income tax fraud charge. Dillon loved the power, the money and the clout working with these clients gave him. He bragged, often and loudly, that he could visit Truman at the White House whenever he wanted to. In October of 1945, Dillon met "Putty Nose" Brady, who had ties to the Chicago outfit that went back to the Capone organization. With Brady at the meeting was an ex-prizefighter, and occasional Brady business partner, James Testa. Dillon, according to Testa, provided them with a price list with a set amount of money he would need to have each of the Chicago hoods released by using his influence in Washington with the Truman White House. While Dillon was collecting his bribe money from Testa and Brady, another lawyer named Maury Hughes of Dallas, traveled to Washington and met with Attorney General Clark. The two men had grown up together. Shortly after the meeting, the Attorney General requested the gangsters transfer to Leavenworth. For decades no one in law enforcement was clear on what hand Clark had played in the transfer or where Hughes fit in until Murray Humphreys summed it all up when he, knowingly or unknowingly, told an FBI microphone on October 16, 1964: "Attorney General Tom Clarke was, he always was, 100% for doing favors . . . the guy Maury Hughes who went to Clarke was an ex law partner (from Dallas) and then the scandal broke." Humphreys also said that another lawyer they hired, Bradley Eben, was paid the astounding fee of $15,000, an enormous amount of money in 1945, to "consult" on the case. Eben's mother was a Truman White House employee who worked as a liaison between Attorney General Clarke and the President. MFF BIO'S HUGHES, CAROL (MRS. JOHN L.) Sources: WC Vol 22, p. 654; CE 1381; CD 706ff Mary's Comments: Employee of Southwestern Publishing Co. Watching motorcade from second floor of TSBD and witnessed assassination. HUGHES, EDDIE S. Sources: Information sheet for Journalism Symposium at SMU 11/20/63 Mary's Comments: A journalist with Dallas Morning News who covered the assassination. HUGHES, PAUL J. Sources: CIA 385-736, p. 4; Miami Herald, May 27, 1960; Parade Magazine, 4/12/64 Mary's Comments: American soldier of fortune. Arrested 7/1/59 in Havana's Biltmore suburb. Said to be officer in Castro's rebel army. A pilot placed on "blacklist" by U.S. Government. Deceased. Comments on this Selection disappeared by chc5000 on Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 11:10 PM GMT (#1382) Paul Hughes disappeared according to Life, November 1960 article, on bombing mission to Cuba from Florida. Antulio Ramirez Ortiz claims in "Castro's Red Hot Hell," part of the HSCA file, that Hughes was known to be imprisoned in Havana after the disappearance. Paul Hughes was allegedly executed for unknown reasons in Cuba. HUGHES, ROBERT BENJAMIN, JR. Sources: CD 7, pp. 580-582 Mary's Comments: White male. DOB: 11/28/36. POB: Tulsa, Okla. Parking lot attendant All-right Parking Lot, 300-block of North Austin, Dallas. Unsuccessful candidate for State Legislature. Mother: Monetta Hughes. HUGHES, ROBERT J. E. Sources: WC Vol 25, p. 873; CE 2585, p. 3 (unnamed); CE 2591; CD 205, p. 158; CD 735, p. 6; Rush to Judgment, Lane, 346-348 Mary's Comments: Witnessed assassination. Took 50' roll of 8mm Kodachrome movie film Main and Houston bearing exposures of the TSBD. HUGHES, SARAH T. (JUDGE) Sources: Warren Report, 22, 72; CD 7, pp. 771-772; Forgive My Grief I, Jones, 150 Mary's Comments: U.S. District Judge. Administered oath of office to Lyndon B. Johnson. Received letter re "architect on the assassination" 11/25/63. HUGHES, THOMAS LOWE (DR.) Sources: SSCIA 157-10002-10081 (MMF 1793-1796) Mary's Comments: DOB: Dec 11, 1925. In Sept 6, 1963, memo from Gordon Chase to Bundy, Hughes is mentioned as one of those in INR (Research) who presumably had knowledge of exile raids and Operation MONGOOSE. namebase.org HUGHES JOHN (LAS VEGAS) * Reid,E. Demaris,O. The Green Felt Jungle. 1964 (227, 230) he was a shareholder [288 shares] in the Sahara Hotel and the Mint Casino [45 shares] address 709 Rancho Circle, Las Vegas http://www.findagrav...=&df=all&GSob=n First Name: Carol Middle Name: L Last Name: Hughes Name Suffix: Birth Date: 25 February 1936 Social Security Number: 316-32-0550 Place of Issuance: Indiana Last Residence: Jefferson, Indiana Zip Code of Last Residence: 47250 Death Date: 26 November 1999 Estimated Age at Death: 63 end First Name: Carol Middle Name: L Last Name: Hughes Name Suffix: Birth Date: 8 September 1934 Social Security Number: 513-28-6884 Place of Issuance: Kansas Last Residence: Burrton, Harvey, Kansas Zip Code of Last Residence: 67020 Death Date: 25 February 2003 Estimated Age at Death: 69 end First Name: Carol Middle Name: L Last Name: Hughes Name Suffix: Birth Date: 11 May 1934 Social Security Number: 549-44-2891 Place of Issuance: California Last Residence: Zip Code of Last Residence: Death Date: 30 December 1991 Estimated Age at Death: 57 end pardon the repeat obits, but they contain different hopefully pertinent factoids Hartford Courant, The (CT) - November 19, 2000 Deceased Name: HUGHES , JOHN L. ``JACK'' HUGHES, John L. ``Jack'' John L. ``Jack'' Hughes, 85, of West Hartford, beloved father, grandfather, brother and uncle, died Saturday, (November 18, 2000) at Hartford Hospital. Born in Bridgeport on July 8, 1915, Jack graduated from Central High School in 1932, and Stetson University in 1936. He served for five years in the Army, including Europe, during World War II. Jack worked for the Engineering Department of Aetna Life & Casualty for many years, retiring in 1980. Dad, Gramp, U.J., could fix anything we broke, and grew a wonderful garden, sharing the abundance. He is survived by three daughters, JoAnn Royce and her husband, Barry, Judi Hughes Holland, and Joy Rinaldi and her husband, Tony; six beloved grandchildren, Kevin, Brian, Michael and Amy Royce, Terri Giglietti and Lisa Rinaldi; and four great granddaughters; a sister, Grace Hughes of Bridgeport; and many nieces and nephews. Jack was predeceased by a sister, Dorothy St. Onge. Funeral Procession will be held Tuesday, 9:15 a.m., from the Taylor & Modeen Funeral Home, 136 South Main St., West Hartford, followed by a Mass of Christian Burial, 10 a.m., to be celebrated at the Church of St. Helena, West Hartford. Burial will follow at St. Michael's Cemetery, Stratford. Calling hours will be held on Monday, 5-8 p.m., at the funeral home. doesent mention his wife seems noticeably odd.... end I think I am getting somewhere...look San Diego Union, The (CA) - January 3, 1987 Deceased Name: Attorney John E. Hughes , 92; helped found American Legion John Edward Hughes, a noted federal tax law attorney who after World War I helped found the American Legion, died Dec. 30 in Scripps Memorial Hospital. He was 92. Mr. Hughes, a resident of La Jolla since 1960, was a senior partner in the Hughes and Hughes law firm in Chicago until his death. He had argued several precedent-setting cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and appeared often in other federal courts. He wrote an early, definitive book on federal tax law, as well as many articles on tax law in professional publications. Mr. Hughes was born in 1894 in Norwich, Conn. He took his law degree from Valparaiso University in Indiana and later became professor of contract law at the school. He left the university to join his father in the Hughes law firm in Chicago. During World War I, Mr. Hughes was a flying cadet and was commissioned an officer in the Air Service of the U.S. Army. At the end of World War I, he became one of the founders of the American Legion. In 1960, he moved from Lake Forest in the Chicago area to La Jolla. Mr. Hughes was a world traveler and, early in the century, was a big-game hunter in Africa. He also was known in racing circles throughout the country. He had breeding farms on both the East Coast and West Coast and owned race horses at the time of his death. His horses had raced at the major tracks in the country under the Hughes racing colors of purple and yellow. Mr. Hughes is survived by his wife, Beatrice, of La Jolla; two sons, John of Chicago and Mansfield of Dallas; six grandchildren, and four great-grandchildren. There will be no public services. Chicago Sun-Times (IL) - January 1, 1987 Deceased Name: John E. Hughes , author, ex-Loop lawyer John E. Hughes, 92, an author and former Loop attorney, died Tuesday in La Jolla, Calif., his home since 1962. Mr. Hughes was born in Connecticut, served as a pilot in the Army Air Corps in World War I, went to Valparaiso University and became a lawyer in 1919. His specialty was corporate income tax law. He also argued a number of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and was author of Federal Death Tax and a second book on Social Security. Mr. Hughes, a former Lake Forest resident, was a founding member of the American Legion and Commonwealth Club, a world traveler, big-game hunter and thoroughbred racehorse owner and breeder. According to his son, John W., Mr. Hughes' horses ran several times in the Preakness and one, Silent Shot, was scratched from the 1933 Kentucky Derby because "he was a mudder and it didn't rain." Survivors include his wife, the former Countess Beatrice Marie-Louise Rex. Her grandfather, Count Karl Rex, was Saxon minister to Austria-Hungary from 1898 to 1910. She reliquished her title on marrying Mr. Hughes. Also surviving is another son, H. Mansfield. Services and interment will be private. end Chicago Sun-Times (IL) - January 1, 1987 Deceased Name: John E. Hughes , author, ex-Loop lawyer John E. Hughes, 92, an author and former Loop attorney, died Tuesday in La Jolla, Calif., his home since 1962. Mr. Hughes was born in Connecticut, served as a pilot in the Army Air Corps in World War I, went to Valparaiso University and became a lawyer in 1919. His specialty was corporate income tax law. He also argued a number of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and was author of Federal Death Tax and a second book on Social Security. Mr. Hughes, a former Lake Forest resident, was a founding member of the American Legion and Commonwealth Club, a world traveler, big-game hunter and thoroughbred racehorse owner and breeder. According to his son, John W., Mr. Hughes' horses ran several times in the Preakness and one, Silent Shot, was scratched from the 1933 Kentucky Derby because "he was a mudder and it didn't rain." Survivors include his wife, the former Countess Beatrice Marie-Louise Rex. Her grandfather, Count Karl Rex, was Saxon minister to Austria-Hungary from 1898 to 1910. She reliquished her title on marrying Mr. Hughes. Also surviving is another son, H. Mansfield. Services and interment will be private. Chicago Sun-Times (IL) - January 1, 1987 John E. Hughes , author, ex-Loop lawyer John E. Hughes, 92, an author and former Loop attorney, died Tuesday in La Jolla, Calif., his home since 1962. Mr. Hughes was born in Connecticut, served as a pilot in the Army Air Corps in World War I, went to Valparaiso University and became a lawyer in 1919. His specialty was corporate income tax law. He also argued a number of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and was author of Federal Death Tax and a second book on Social Security. Mr. Hughes, a former Lake Forest resident, was a founding member of the American Legion and Commonwealth Club, a world traveler, big-game hunter and thoroughbred racehorse owner and breeder. According to his son, John W., Mr. Hughes' horses ran several times in the Preakness and one, Silent Shot, was scratched from the 1933 Kentucky Derby because "he was a mudder and it didn't rain." Survivors include his wife, the former Countess Beatrice Marie-Louise Rex. Her grandfather, Count Karl Rex, was Saxon minister to Austria-Hungary from 1898 to 1910. She reliquished her title on marrying Mr. Hughes. Also surviving is another son, H. Mansfield. Services and interment will be private. end Chicago Tribune (IL) - February 28, 1969 U.S. GENERAL DIES IN ITALY PLANE CRASH Deceased Name: Maj. Gen. John S. Hughes MILAN, Italy, Feb. 27 -- Maj. Gen. John S. Hughes, commander of all United States army troops in north Italy, was killed tonight when a small military plane crashed on takeoff from Milan airport. Hughes, 52, of Fort Worth, Tex., had assumed command last May of the United States southern Europe task force [sETAF]. Also killed in the Crash was Maj. Edward Haislop, 32, of Parkersburg, W. Va., who was piloting the craft on a flight to Pisa. 2 Are Injured Two other American service men were injured. Authorities identified them as the co-pilot, Maj. Gordon Cooper, 34, also of Parkersburg, and Sp. 5/c Wallace Runyan, 21, originally of Fairbury, Ill., but now a resident of Milan. Cooper and Runyan were listed in critical condition in a Milan clinic, with fractures and burns. Engines Lose Power Officials said the plane's engines apparently lost power. The craft, a U-8D, crashed into a huge advertising sign along a street just 300 yards from the airport. It caught fire. An investigation was begun by SETAF authorities to determine the cause of the crash. end

I am bringing this old thread back because, I didn't want to post it on the British Connections to the Assassination thread. Because despite all of the known MI-6, MI-5, interaction with the CIA, Skybolt, Oswald's interest in Ian Fleming's Bond novels, [ian died in 1964 BTW] and Kirknewton and Bletchley Park codebreaking, I do not believe the British were behind the assassination, and I do not want to appear to be suggesting they were.........As a matter of fact, the proverbial fill in the blank, they did it, is at this point in my life, a revelation that the various visitors over the years to the Forum, touting variations of _______ did it, are usually complete wankers. It is a little more complicated than that. So, don't drink the Kool-Aid At any rate, this post is about Kenneth Tynan...... who was one of the original sponsors of the FPCC. TYNAN, KENNETH ----- Sources: CD 87 SS 80 DTR-00402; CIA 1030-960 Mary's Comments: One of original sponsors of the FPCC. Member British "Who Killed Kennedy" Committee. Critic of U.S. Kenneth Tynan was born in April 1927 and bypassing his early life, one of the first significant events of Tynan's life was marked by being awarded a scholarship to Oxford University at the outbreak of World War II and the bizarre fact that in 1948, upon the death of Tynan's father -- the man he had known as Peter Tynan -- Tynan learned to his surprise that Peter Tynan was in reality an alias of Sir Peter Peacock, a former mayor of Warrington, who had been successfully leading a double life for more than 20 years, and who had a wife and another family back in Warrington. Tynan's mother was obliged to return Sir Peter's body to his wife and family in Warrington for burial. Tynan's discovery of his father's deception (and his mother's collusion) did long-term damage to his ability to trust others. An erotic revue which Tynan coordinated and partially wrote, Oh! Calcutta!, debuted in 1969, and became one of the most successful theater hits of all time. It included scenes written by various authors, including Samuel Beckett, John Lennon, and Edna O'Brien, as well as music, and featured frequent nudity. In 1971, Kenneth Tynan entered the world covered by Sinister Forces trilogist Peter Levenda when he co-wrote with Roman Polanski the script of an unusually grim and violent screen adaptation of Macbeth. Tynan died in California in 1980 and his body was returned to Britain for burial also see page 147, The Rolling Stone Interview: John Lennon, Part II - Jann S. Wenner www.jannswenner.com/Archives/John_Lennon_Part2.aspx - CachedSimilar Rolling Stone: What do you think the effect was of the Beatles on the history of Britain? LENNON: I dont know about the "history;" the people who are in control and in power, and the whole class system and the whole bullxxxx buorgeoisie is exactly the same, except there is a lot of fag middle-class kids with long, long hair walking around London in trendy clothes and Kenneth Tynan is making a fortune out of the word "f_ _ _ ." Apart from that nothing happened. We all dressed up, the same bastards are in control, the same people are runnin' everything. Robert: In case the reader is wondering what John Lennon was talking about.... On 13 November 1965, Tynan participated in a live TV debate, broadcast as part of the BBC's late-night satirical show BBC-3. He was asked whether he would allow a play to be staged in which sexual intercourse was represented on the stage, and replied: "Well, I think so, certainly. I doubt if there are any rational people to whom the word 'f_ _ _' would be particularly diabolical, revolting or totally forbidden. I think that anything which can be printed or said can also be seen." No recording survives of the programme, but Private Eye always maintained that Tynan's stammer made it the first 13 syllable 4 letter word. This was the first time the word "f_ _ _" had been spoken on British television. Johnson later called Tynan's use of the word "his masterpiece of calculated self-publicity", adding "for a time it made him the most notorious man in the country." In response to public outcry, the BBC was forced to issue a formal apology. In the House of Commons, four separate censuring motions were signed by a total of 133 Labour Party and Tory backbenchers. Mary Whitehouse, a frequent critic of the BBC over issues of "morals and decency", wrote a letter to the Queen, suggesting that Tynan should be reprimanded by having "his bottom spanked". The irony of Whitehouse's comment has been noted, given the later revelations of Tynan's fetish for flagellation. The episode further encouraged Whitehouse in her campaign against the BBC; it also cut short Tynan's television career. Robert: Getting back to Tynan's sponsorship of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee, I don't know anything about the material in Mary Ferrell's bio of Tynan, but I can vouch that Tynan was one of the original sponsors of the FPCC. See below; Original 28 names listed as supporters of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which are listed below........ From NY Times, What is Going On In Cuba? In Order of Appearance James Baldwin Simone de Beauvoir Frank London Brown Truman Capote John Henrik Clarke Pro. Robert G. Colodny Richard Gibson Dr. Maurice Green Edmonde Haddad Rev. Donald Harrington John Killens Sidney Lens Norman Mailer Julian Mayfield Elva dePue Matthews Prof. Eugene Noble Rev. John Papandrew James Purdy Joseph Quintana Alan Sagner Jean Paul Sartre John Singleton Robert Taber G. A. Thurston Kenneth Tynan Dan Wakefield Sidney Weinstein Robert F. Williams end The last thing, which is why I posted this in the first place is that I have been unable to locate any of the documents referenced by researcher Mary Ferrell, in her bio page of Tynan. I can understand not finding the CD 87 reference, as that lengthy document has large sections in places which are practically totally illegible, the other document doesen't seem to show up.

http://www.something...roduct_id=23885 http://www.something...t+blooded+woman That's really an interesting coincidence that you would add to this thread, Michael...A couple of days ago, the Biography channel aired a show on Jack Ruby, I believe there was some footage either from Naughty Dallas or Hot Blooded Woman..... There are a couple of things about the show that made sitting thru Posner and Russo less nauseating and that was some of the video....there were two snapshots that were fascinating, that I thought I had never seen before, but one was a picture from the WC Armstrong Exhibits.....that jumped out at me, in relation to the man in the V-neck sweater, the "phony Oswald," in the Carousel. The other was a shot of Ruby "crouching behind" the group of journalists he later appeared in the photo with at the Wade Press Conference with...Some of these journalists, I believe Ruby spoke "Yiddish" with, I have always been suspicious about that. When Ruby was literally on his deathbed when Earl Ruby and Elmer Gertz came in and secretly obtained a tape recorded interview with Ruby in which he spoke Yiddish at that time as well. The purpose of this recording was presented as more or less a denial that he knew Oswald before he shot him, and a denial of any type of external pressure that resulted in his shooting Oswald, i e conspiracy...... So the Yiddish thing is compelling to me......

It seems there was a William Ray Dobkins born in 1937 in Upton County, Texas; father was Charles Martin Dobkins and mother was Nonis Lilleene Dobkins. Her mother was Rosetta McFarland (Mack) Reed, from whom she inherited the Reed Ranch. Here is the obit for Nonis: It appears Dobkins was accusing Billy Sol Estes of Pecos County of taking over the Reed family's ranch in the letter to Marguerite Oswald. William R. Dobkins filed to run as a Democrat for the U.S. Senate from Texas against John Tower, Republican, in 1972 but never paid his filing fee. He died in Los Angeles, CA in 1981. Linda is correct regarding the letter Dobkins wrote to Oswald's mother; out of all the things he could have said to her regarding the assassination of President Kennedy, and I will be the first to admit I haven't checked to see if there are any corroborative facts regarding his allegations that he chose to go into that area, made me wonder if this is another of those red herrings...... but I have posted the URL to a document that goes into significant detail re this story. Both of these documents are lengthy and should be read closely if you are more than a novice to the JFK assassination. 1993.06.19.12:28:10:460000 Withheld http://www.maryferre....do?docId=97085 And at the risk of seeming to go off on a tangent of my own. Forum members interested in this thread, may wish to recall my previous mention of the link, however dated, of...... October 23, 1939 Deposed TVA Head Now Aids Refugee Cause Arthur E Morgan....Dr. Morgan, former President of Antioch College CORRESPONDENCE FROM AND INVESTIGATION CONCERNING DONALD ANDREW WIKF (T http://www.maryferre....do?docId=97071 Donald Andrew Wolf Jamestown, Tennessee Fentress County, aka Bobby Ronald Donald McDonald refers to Lee Harvey Oswald as Harvey in his letter to Marina, alleged was in Nashville in 1963 with two ex-cons named Richard Blair and Noble Holt when President Kennedy visited there and that he encountered a man who stated "how easy it would be to shoot President Kennedy in Nashville, Tennessee from some building or high place," the FBI discovered some threatening letters had been mailed to persons in Tennessee signed 'The Wolf" and entertained the idea that the person who was Donald Andrew Wolf and Bobby D. McDonald were one and the same....the reason I mention this area is that Knoxville, Tennessee is a name that surfaces in this document, ie that is where McDonald alleges he was at the time President Kennedy was assassinated...Knoxville, Tennessee of course, was a city very familiar to Albert Osborne and if you do a timeline on Osborne, you will discover in the summer of 1963 he was working as a gardener in Tyler, Texas and was also in Austin, Texas close to the time of the JFK Assassination see WC 25:47 http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=485040 I hate to sound funny but its nice to see a thread on the Forum that is germane to the JFK assassination in a significant manner, as opposed to something about Rick Perry or the latest obituary of some JFK related figure that has died recently......

There are a few last things I would like to point out re Steve Kennan, the Casa Los Amigos and all of the above. A lot of the source information for this part of the more obscure parts of the "religious organizations" that are intertwined within the narrative come form CD 1084. Before I go into this I want to point out that as far as reality goes, Oswald himself stated, and as opposed to some statements he is "alleged" to have made, he did state the only time he was ever in Mexico was in Tijuana. That is the portion of the story I would like to jump into. A later admitted fabrication story disseminated by Ylario Rojas Villanueva, which was not unlike the Gilberto Alvarado Ugarte allegations of seeing Oswald take money to kill President Kennedy.....see below.... http://www.maryferre...0&relPageId=205 nonetheless, as some very credible researchers have pointed out, the Alvarado fabrication revealed, an important fact that Alvarado connected to Nicaraguan intelligence, so even from disinformation, important facts were gleaned. I submit that in much the same manner, a similar dynamic exists with regards to the Rojas story; with an important addendum, in Rojas account Oswald had flown into Cozumel on two occasions once from Jamaica.....also in his account is the vagabond preacher "Albert Osborne," I know there is a lot of frustration about the seeming inability to "pin down" the whole John Howard Bowen, Albert Osborne John Ceasar Grossi miasma. And I believe one of the reasons is lack of knowledge about who these persons were and who were they connected to...... In circa 1970, or 1971 John Ceasar Grossi was convicted of interstate transportation of a stole vehicle, he had multiple "also known as" aliases one which was Gillenwaters, it is even possible his conviction was made in this name, but he would be if you were to pick a label an organized crime figure, this is the person who worked with Oswald at Jaggar Chiles Stovall, the job where Oswald did photography re classified maps which included Cuba. Was there a car theft ring associated with the JFK assassination is a subject that has come up before, in that light Grossi may have had a connection, as I do believe indeed the answer to that question is yes. Furthermore, the mysterious Renault[s?] sighted both at the Embassy in Mexico and another one in the parking lot at the time of the Walker shooting [see Kirk Coleman] in reality, I believe was a lame attempt to "make it look like" a ersatz Communist plot killed JFK, an allegation that if it hasn't "died the death," yet perhaps never will. Regarding the elderly Albert Osborne, I believe part of the problem is one of over-analysis, who he represented is less important than what he did....Does it really matter if he was a closet Nazi even in 1963, or a Minuteman or a whathaveyou. Suffice to say that he was an integral part of the inner sanctum of the JFK assassination on one lever or another, I will, and I realize "ones opinions" are simply that J Edgar Hoover probably knew exactly who he was, and his role, and if he didn't he should have..... Back to the Tijuana aspect of Oswald, one of the names dropped was "LEOPOLDO TORRES CORTES, a Mexican Air Force sergeant who is based at Cozumel airport." It would be an accomplishment to probe and find out if there even was such a person, and if any facts that could be gleaned in the same manner that Alvarado Ugarte's somewhat hidden history obtained.....and it probably is worth mentioning, that one researcher, Noel Twyman, is on record as attesting that the use of aircraft in the JFK assassination in an important manner, is a area that has been under-researched. And if one thinks they are a better researcher, or know more about the dynamics of the JFK assassination, then one is in need of a serious reality check! I do know that a somewhat forgotten area in all the Mexico area is Merida, which is a definitive link to Gerry Patrick Hemming and consequently Dick Whatley, Hathcock etc...... Lastly, I did discover in all my diggings an interesting factoid about the US Embassy in Mexico.......Win Scott, E Howard Hunt David Atlee Phillipps, Ann Goodpasture et cetera.... By 1964 the U S Embassy that was the scene of the melodrama's played out there, had been replaced by a new embassy that is probably the one that is there today, both of these Embassy's were designed and built with the heavy involvement of "Southwestern Architects and Engineers," a company that was at that time based in......Austin, Texas. I admit it is more or less minutae, but there is no such thing as too much knowledge about the subject at hand.....What underlies all of the Quaker, American Friend's Service Committee, connections is the fact that they lead back to Ruth Paine and Dallas. Cheers

One other item, regarding Robert Kaffke and a guy named William Ray Dobkins were listed in some other documents, one alongside LHO referenced MHCHAOS see....More to the point, I concur with Greg that the reliability of said informants as perceived by the FBI is definitely backasswards...... More here......In all posts on this thread, including previous ones, careful attention should be paid to physical descriptions... My impressions of the reliabilty of allegations by Dobkins and Kaffke in the letter to Marguerite Oswald are definitely very curious, whether they are accurate is another story..... WILLIAM R. DOBKINS CLAIM TO HAVE TRAVELED TO MEXICO TO ARRANGE DEFECTI Found in: Oswald 201 File, Vol 54 relates to the uncompromising attitude of President Johnson. It is felt that Dobkins may have authored this letter Mrs Marguerite Oswald mother of Lee Harvey Oswald knows Dobkins.... Subject has claimed that he traveled to Mexico City following his discharge from the U.S.M.C. in order to arrange a defection to Russia http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=53417&relPageId=3 1993.07.12.17:11:22:560390 DISPATCH ON KAFFKE, DOBKINS, OSWALD http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=59346&relPageId=2 Photo of Dobkins.....One document claims [Nathan Ferris] that not only was Dobkins mentally unstable, but that all members of his family were mentally unstable...., Dobkins was ostensibly from Texas. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=98738&relPageId=4 Enjoy Reading

I thought I would try to see if I could find something on the persons referenced, and while I didn't have any luck, what I did find has some implications, if one is capable of reading between the lines so to speak......I hate to transcribe articles, unless I cannot upload the actual documents, the document I posted on the Victoria Adams/Barry Ernst thread was an exception, because I only have the actual document, and It is difficult to go out and copy documents to a disc and upload them...At any rate there are four articles, which will delineate various connections between the American Friends Service Committee in Dallas/Mexico and even the Tennessee Valley Authority [see Arthur Morgan], three of the articles are very old, the last and perhaps the most interesting one is the last one, October 25, 1959..... In case I have trouble uploading these documents, I will include the title and dates and sources of the articles. October 23, 1939 Dallas Morning News Deposed TVA Head Now Aids Refugee Cause Arthur E Morgan....Dr. Morgan's intimates here had no information...former President of Antioch College June 7, 1948 Dallas Morning News page 3; Talks on Alternatives to War Planned by Seven Professors; June 5, 1950 (AP) Quakers Schedule Institute in Dallas; October 25, 1959 page 3; Dallas Morning News [Mary K.] Craig Class Announces Speakers for Season; Robert: Its not often you find Arthur Ford [Psychic Phenomena] and Dr. Tom Dooley mentioned in the same article.....

I ran across what I suppose is a rough draft of the February 17, 1964 Adams statement ostensibly taken, by the document I have by J.R. Leavelle. I do not have the resources to buy books as I once did, and if I did I would have to get a new computer, for the kindle version of Bloody Treason, which I believe is the best single book on the assassination to this day. At any rate, I am happy for Mr. Ernst and am glad he has shared his research with us. I copied this from the Microfiche Library documents on the JFK Assassination, it may be much ado about nothing. Spelling errors are included. STATEMENT OF VICKIE ADAMS I talked with Vickie Adams at 8:10 pm this date, February 17, 1964 The following statement is what she said happened November 22, 1963. My name is Vickie Adams, 3909 Cole, Apt. D., no phone. My job is office service representative. I reported to work that day about 8:30 am, and I worked in that capacity until noon. A friend of mine, Elsie Harmon, who lives in Oak Cliff and works in the office, wanted to take some moving pictures of the motorcade. I opened a third floor window about the third one from the front of the building. She took pictures of the motorcade. When the President got in front of us I heard someone call him, and he turned. That is when I heard the first shot. I thought it was a firecracker. Then the second shot I saw the Secret Service man run to the back of the President's car. After the third shot, I went out the back door. I said, "I think someone has been shot." The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs. I went down to the first floor. I saw Mr. Shelly and another employee named Bill. The freight elevator had not moved, and I still did not see anyone on the stairs. I ran out the back door of the depository and around to the front. I started down toward the railroad tracks when an officer storped me and turned me back. I asked the officer if the President was shot, and he said he did not know. As I turned back I saw another employee Molena standing by the front of the building facing Elm Street. I stopped and talked with Avery Davis another employee. I saw two men in street clothes, one was gesturing with his hands and asking questions. I asked Mr. Davis who he was. I later saw Jack Ruby on TV and thought it was the same man. No one had surrounded the building at that time. I went back into the building and the passenger elevator, but the power was off. I went to the back to the freight elevator. There were two plainclothes men on it. However, the power on it also was turned off. I went up the stairs to the fourth floor to my office. We were later told to leave. This concludes Miss. Adams' statement to me. J. R. Leavelle END Here is the URL for her affidavit in CE 1381 http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=171462

To Steve Gaal: Steve, I just wanted you to know I saw your query and did some googling, google maps, and didn't come up with any type of reference mapwise to Black River Crossing, just didn't want you to think, I had forgotten about you. Possibly the term was just regional, although I did find the lack of a current reference odd. I myself would like to know if it was close to the International Bridge. The reason I posted that was speculation on my part re the possibility that the two Molina's were related....... END Regarding the Piper, running man conundrum, the only thing I find troublesome about this person being Chism is the Secret Service agent, saying he had nothing in his hands, Arthur Chism was carrying a baby right........ I was hoping one of the books Matrix for Assassination or Harvey and Lee might clarify this issue.... Of course it seems TSBD occupants were saying one thing to the Dallas Police on 11/22/63, and another when being deposed by the Warren Commission. Troy Eugene West alleged he was "making coffee on the first floor for the employees" at the time of the shots. http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=171509 Eddie Piper alleges he was "sitting on a box watching the parade," during his WC testimony he says he was sitting at "about the second window on the first floor." But he's still sitting "on a box." [that seems to be a rather nebulous choice for a word, if you were being asked about your whereabouts at the time of the assassination, don't you think if you were sitting on something, you might be concerned enough to be a little more specific, a box of what Cornflakes?, a large box? literally, figure of speech? But Joseph Ball just plods along.....] http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=171498 http://www.jfk-assas...ol6/page383.php Roy Edward Lewis said he "stood by myself on the inside of the front entrance of the Texas School Book Depository," at that time. http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=171491 All of the above individuals identified themselves as African-American in their affidavits. I do not buy for a second that Arthur Chism was who Landis was referring to. It seems pretty obvious that Landis is referencing someone who, pardon the expression, had a "head of steam going" when he saw him running, if it was Chism running from where he stated he was at at the time the shots were fired, would Landis have even noticed him....I think not. And how do you not notice a baby in one's hands. There is one other item, although I do not know the ethnicity of the following persons, John Armstrong pointed out that TSBD Employees Franklin Wester, Carl Jones and Gordon Smith were not interviewed by the FBI and their duties, length of employment and whereabouts at the time of the assassination are unknown; TSBD employee Haddon S Aiken worked at the warehouse on Houston Street. see page 806 NOTE: Harvey And Lee, John Armstrong - 2003 Regarding Wester, Jones and Smith, if there is some other possibility, ie Piper, there isn't a better alibi, than no-one knowing your present at the scene in the first place.

Well the Army Corp of Engineers are part of the Army, aren't they? And Robert, what else does Gladys Swope Cason have to say? Unfortunately, the Cason book cannot be summarized in just a few sentences. But to be more to the point, there are some things I am checking into which preclude me from addressing your question, at this time....... I will say that there was a gentleman named Harry Hamilton who helped Jack Cason run the Book Depository circa the Pearl Harbor era, while Jack was stationed at Mineral Wells, Hamilton was from Scotland, [or Ireland depending on which account is correct see below] and was too old for World War II.......I should mention according to one of William Weston's articles, the Book Depository was not even at 411 Elm St. then according to Weston, at any rate....there are some cryptic passages in the book where Glady's is wondering how Jack can be away from work for so long...... Hamilton died in 1956 in Guatemala.......That would have been two years after Arbenz and the coup. Then there are the factoids below From MFF Bio Section CARLTON, ROSS L. Sources: CD 301 (58) Mary's Comments: Dallas attorney. Exec. Vice-Pres. Lone Star School Book Depository, 4640 Harry Hines Blvd. (214) 631-7160. DOB: 6/14/11. Wife: Elizabeth. A "friend" reported him because he was anti-Kennedy, a segregationalist. Associate of reactionary groups in Dallas. Has extensive gun collection. Thought to have a connection with TSBD. Robert: There was a connection with the TSBD see below Grieved Turn Drab Building into Dallas Shrine to JFK; Dallas Morning News; 11-24-1963; "The Texas School Book Depository is privately owned by Jack C Cason and O.V. Truly. It is a distribution center for books bought by the State of Texas from national publishers. All books bought by the state are distributed through this center and another Dallas firm, the Lone Star Depository located on Harry Hines." Mrs. Nancy Crow was the general manager of the Lone Star Book Depository 4644 Harry Hines Boulevard at the time of the interview June 1964, link below http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=724344 I page 68, One Life Gladys Swope Cason Harry, the Vice-President hailed from Scotland. A dear of a man, Harry had to be then in his sixties. He had no children but many nephews in Scotland that he doted on as did his wife, Helen. Every time I ever saw him in a period of more than thirty years, Harry always was wearing a beautifully cut three-piece suit with watch chain. Smaller than Jack, he wore a grey mustache like a Scotsman and used wire-rim spectacles to check the accounts. He also helped Jack manage the publishers' representatives, the warehouse crew, and the thirty-one office workers who formed the backbone of the business. http://thehardyparty...ml/fam16535.htm More Information: About Harry W. Hamilton: Found in 1920 Census, TX, Dallas Co., Dallas, Pct. 22, ED 42. Name: Harry Hamilton Home in 1920: Dallas Precinct 22, Dallas, Texas Age: 39 years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Birthplace: Ireland Relation to Head of House: Nephew Father's Birth Place: Ireland Mother's Birth Place: Ireland Marital Status: Single Race: White Sex: Male Year of Immigration: 1909 Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes Image: 930 Household Members: Name Age John Hamilton 65 Mildred Hamilton 40 Hattie French 65 Harry Hamilton 39 (Occupation: Manager, book store) .................................................................. School Book Depository Chartered for Dallas; Dallas Morning News; 09-10-1927; Incorporators are Victor H. Perry, J. W. Smith, H. W. Hamilton, Altha Wilkerson and Maude Grissom all of Dallas. State Superintendent of Public Instruction S.M.N. Marrs said this was the same Depository owned by the late Hugh Perry. The 3rd Decade - Vol 9 Issue 6 page 23, The Transplantation of the Texas School Book Depository, by William Weston .......old Sexton building (John Sexton Company grocery store chain,) then "the previous address for the company was the Dal-Tex Building."........Weston says "warehouse company employees were paid in cash, including Oswald" January 1, 1956 Death Claims H W Hamilton in Guatemala obit date (Jan 7, 1956) HAMILTON Harry W., 4433 Beverly, passed away, Quirigua, Guatemala survived by wife Mrs. Helen W. Hamilton; Dallas, brother William Hamilton. Dublin, Ireland arrangements pending WEILAND-MERRITT TE-8141 With all of this focus on the Texas School Book Depository, so associated with Oswald's guilt, it is important to at least point out that there were other elements to this whole scenario: On November 25, 1963, Michael Schafer aka Mike Shean, 2874 Orchard Ave., Grand Junction, Colorado, announcer for radio station KWSL, Grand Junction, Colorado advised he formerly worked for Radio Station KFUN Las Vegas, New Mexico. He said that on several occasions during July and August 1963 he had heard comments at Las Vegas Radio Station through Robert Douglas and James O. Brasher, fellow employees that some leading Texas politicians identity not known had reported “four men were planning to kill the President this fall.” http://www.maryferre...49&relPageId=20 More later

This just gets stranger and stranger, so let's get to the nub of it: what was Piper's supposed motive for being involved in a conspiracy to kill the President of the United States? Why did the FBI, DPD and other LEAs along with the WC work so hard to cover up the obvious connection to the "Colored Conspiracy" in favor of "a Commie did it" solution when these highly organized black men would've made just as convenient a set of scapegoats as ol' "Maggie's Drawers" himself? Who do you propose "coerced, bribed, [or] threatened" Givens (and, clearly, Bonnie Ray Williams, Hank Norman, Junior Jarman and Jack Dougherty, to name only the most obvious) into "covering for Piper?" Other than Rowland's description of an "elderly Negro" in the window and your distrust of Piper's testimony, why on earth do you think Piper had anything at all to do with JFK's murder? He didn't have to operate an elevator for anyone. He didn't normally go to the sixth floor for anything, and had no special knowledge of it. There was no particular need for him to be there unless he was involved in the shooting. So why would he have been there? I don't know why you have such trouble imagining that Oswald would have "the same conversation" with someone twice in a matter of only a few minutes, especially when the first supposed instance was not an actual conversation, per se, but rather a general admonition to the half-dozen men who had taken both elevators - unnecessarily, since either one of them would have fit all the men easily - downstairs while Oswald was still up there. Why, within a few minutes and after apparently not checking to see if the men had closed the gate as he'd asked, would Oswald not say anything to someone whom he saw going downstairs again? Do you think it's odd that, not being sure that his request was complied with, someone would ask the next person he saw going into a down-elevator to double-check the gate for him? None of the men in the "elevator race" said that Oswald was right there, asking them all conversationally to "please be sure to close the gate," certain that each and all of them had heard him, or even knowing who-all, specifically, was a part of the "race." Why, given a chance to make sure that the gate was closed by asking Givens to check it, would Oswald not have done that? This has all the hallmarks of the evidence fitting the conclusion, rather than the other way around. Greg, you just keep doing what you have always done, from where I sit, I think for a site that ostensibly is predicated on there being a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination, there are more than enough Lone Nutters to balance everything out here on the Forum........ You may find the following helpful.... ADMIN FOLDER-Y11: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, US SECRET SERVICE FOLDER http://www.maryferre....do?docId=10134 page 167 climbing on back of the President's car. When he heard the second shot, he saw it hit the President's head and the President slumped out of sight towards Mrs. Kennedy. He estimates the time-lapse between the first and second report at about 4 or 5 seconds. He thought that the shot had come from somewhere toward the front right-hand side of the road. When he looked in that direction, he saw the only person he can recall seeing clearly who was a Negro male in light green slacks and a beige colored shirt running from Landis left to right, up the slope, across the grass, along the sidewalk, bending over while running. Landis started to point towards him, but didn't notice anything in his hands..... Robert: There is a larger context to this story in CD 1168, if you read the entire document, they are perhaps accurately showing how Thayer Waldo, misconstrued a conversation between Deputies Howard and Bryan, to mean that the Dallas Police were hiding out a "suspect" in the Kennedy assassination, but even so, the account re the Negro male suspect below in my estimation is accurate and, on the next page there are denials, denials, denials by James Howard. Waldo did goof up, but I believe he picked up accurately re the significance of the "Negro janitor" http://www.maryferre...564&relPageId=8 page 9 Deputy Howard and I were discussing an incident which Det. JACK BRYAN of the Dallas P.D. had told me on January 1, 1964 concerning a Negro male suspect who was being questioned in connection with his being in the Texas School Book Depository on the day of the assassination and having hurriedly left sometime afterwards. [Waldo was in the car] When questioned as to why he left in such a hurry, the suspect stated since he had a police record he would probably be suspected of involvement in the shooting at no time did I state that a rifle had been found on the roof of the Texas Book Depository which had been dropped by a Dallas police officer typed signature "JAMES M HOWARD Special Agent Oswald 201 Files Box 29 [Robert 2 pages deep; Document below is from page 2 1993.05.21.16:15:22:460000 ARTICLE IN FORT WORTH STAR BY THAYER WALDO ON 2/10/64 CONCERNING ALLEG ATION WITNESS HELD IN PROTECTIVE CUSTODY "man, you don't know how fast is fast unless you saw me run" referring to his exit from the School Book Depository. http://www.maryferre...746&relPageId=6 Below Possible inter-relationship? CABLE CONCERNING OSCAR RODRIGUEZ MOLINA 19 Aug 1964, KUJUMP HOUSTON ADVISED KUJUMP WAVE AREA OF FOLL: OSCAR RODRIGUEZ MOLINA DPOB: 10 DEC 29 JARUCO HAVA EFFECTED BLACK RIVER CROSSING FROM MEXICO TO BROWNSVILLE, TEX 18 AUG. WAVE SENDING WILFRED O. CLOWER TO HOUSTON/BROWNSVILLE ASSESS FURTHER DETERMINE CIS MISSION http://www.maryferre....do?docId=32269 "At every crossroads on the path that leads to the future, tradition has placed 10,000 men to guard the past." - Maurice Maeterlinck

I just wanted to thank Jim for his last post, I believe it succinctly summarizes the essence of the hidden machinations regarding the persons who are significant in the cryptology field and the sort of backdrop around it....... As far as other cryptological areas, I can mention one with reference to Frank Sturgis aka Frank Fiorini.... In the archives there is a reference to a document entitled Albanian Cryptographic Material NARA Record Number: 1993.07.16.10:09:11:060590 JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 16 http://www.maryferre....do?docId=72664 It is hard to get a handle on what this is all about, I know there was something about Sturgis being accused, or, being responsible for a tap on Senator Howard Baker's telephone circa the same time period, if I am not mistaken.... I don't believe the Albanian material, if there even was such a thing has anything to do with the Friedman/Hurt/Magic area, but nevertheless it is an oddity. It is also my view that figures such as Sturgis and Hemming were in it up to their neck, and had a certain amount of leeway, in terms of being held accountable as such...... But that is just my opinion. Anyone who knows how the JFK conspiracy game was played by those involved, as it were, is to generate a lot of back and forth with a mixture of truth and outright lies and keep the great unwashed guessing. Hemming and Sturgis, among others, played that fiddle till the strings broke.

I don't want to get off track but there is another person, who deserves checking into, I believe anyone can understand my curiosity, when you take into account that this document is the only reference whatsoever, I have been able to find to this person, highly unusual when you consider the duplication of JFK assassination documents as well as the fact that I have been doing a lot of checking, and can find no corroboration of any Corp of Engineers meeting in Fort Worth on the day of the assassination. It also is interesting that Blue Island, Illinois is in Cook County, a place that is not exactly unheard of in the JFK saga. I believe Mr. G. W. Becker was with the Rock Island Railroad, but I do not believe there was a meeting of the U.S. Corp of Engineers on November 22, 1963, and it is the US Army Corp of Engineers, is there a reticence to use the word Army? page 67 G W Becker, Special Engineer for Drainage, Rock Island Line Railroad with offices in the La Salle Street Station, 2110 W. 120th Place, Blue Island, Illinois, advised telephonically he had heard what he believes was a rifle shot on 3:00 PM Thurs., Nov 21, 1963 along the Railroad tracks in Dallas, as he was "walking track" of the Rock Island Railroad about three quarters of a mile west of the Rock Island depot in Irving, Texas. He said he was just west of the underpass at Iowa Street underpass and the shot appeared to come from a point about a block away to the north. He stated this occurred about 3:00 PM on Thursday, November 21, 1963. He said he felt this was significant only if Lee Harvey Oswald was not at work this afternoon and was possibly "practicing" firing his rifle. He noted that the Oswald family according to reports reside in Irving, Texas. Mr. Becker described the area from which the shot came as wooded but "spotty," in that there are also some homes in the area and it is still within the city limits of Irving, Texas. He said he looked in the direction of the shot but saw nobody. Mr. Becker advised that he arrived in Fort Worth, Texas about 8:00 AM on Thursday, November 21, 1963 for a meeting with the U.S. Corps of Engineers to be held November 22, 1963. He said he had worked on the engineering aspects of the Iowa Street underpass and out of curiosity had taken a bus to that area to inspect the drainage aspects. He said he had registered at the Texas Hotel in Fort Worth, Texas, Room 910 on November 21, 1963 and checked out about 6:40 AM on November 22, 1963 when he went to the Blackstone Hotel in Fort Worth for the meeting with the US Corps of Engineers. He noted that President Kennedy had also stayed at the Fort Worth Hotel. Mr Becker stated that he left Ft Worth, Texas for Chicago, Illinois on Rock Island Train Number 18 which left Fort Worth at 10:03 PM, on November 22, 1963. Interview by SA Richard G. Meyers - 11/29/63 http://www.maryferre...48&relPageId=71 Below is just an excerpt, but is one of the many stories regarding the US Army Corp of Engineers prior to and after the JFK assassination. I found no references to a meeting on November 22, 1963 whatsoever. I know someone will probably think "maybe it was cancelled because of the assassination," if so, then Mr Becker misspoke because he refers to leaving Dallas after the meeting was held. Army Engineers Hold Workshop at Fort Worth; Dallas Morning News; 12-04-1963 The Southwestern division of the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers, headquartered in Dallas, is holding a five-day supervisory workshop at Town Hall in the Seminary South Shopping Center in Fort Worth....... .......Attending from Dallas are Richard H Berryhill, Herbert W Claybaugh, Kenneth M. Coen, Joe J Coulter, Wayne M. Cowan, Robert L. Harvey Charles A. Long, Samuel Morton, Arthur G. Rudkin and Thomas C. Walton “Never did he become interested in searching for those who assassinated the President, nor did I. We made a pact not to discuss the act or its details.” - Gladys Swope Cason wife of Jack Cason, President of the TSBD on November 22, 1963.

I did a little bit of digging, and although as a researcher I do not particularly trust him or agree with his conclusions, Edward J Epstein asserts in the article [see link] that he located the passenger manifest of the SS Maasdam, also see Pieter Didenko, ostensible Russian-speaking steward of the Maasdam, and also maintains the SS Maasdam employment history was destroyed. http://www.maryferre...082&relPageId=4 The ship passenger manifest would have approximately 1,400 names if Edward J Epstein is correct, although his citation re Didenko is attributed to Priscilla McMillan, another "researcher" whom I believe echoes the party line, and I don't mean the Commies...lol

Fascinating. WH18 CE 940 .... http://www.perryverm...WH18_CE_940.pdf Has Oswald's letter been corrected for spelling errors, or did Oswald have a rare moment of spelling excellence? Nary a mistake to be found! Regards, Peter Fokes, Toronto Peter, thanks for going to the trouble, obviously your post of the pdf's is of great importance to anyone who has an interest, I would be a lot more interested if the Forum had a resident translator, although Steve Thomas recently provided a google translation link. Thanks on behalf of the Forum. BTW; The smart money regarding documents regarding Lee Oswald in that same time frame as the earlier document I posted would be in the, whats now encyclopedia sized Lee Oswald 201 file. The link is on maryferrell.org ps Have you ever read the Spanish only [as far as I know] copy of the Zeiger's interview in Ambito Financiero by Ignacio Zuleta? John Armstrong seems to have brought it to other researchers attention. The book by Perry is interesting. I gives first of all an overview of the presidency of Kennedy and of the assassination. After that Perry goes into detail on the visit the Oswalds paid to The Netherlands (a.k.a. Holland) on their way back from Russia. In Oswald's address book is an entry for a place where they probably spent the night in Rotterdam. As you might have noticed: I was born and raised in The Netherlands, and Dutch is my native language. So if needed, i can provide some translations. Does anyone have more information about the stay of Oswald in The Netherlands? I will re-read Perry's book and post an outline of the most interesting conclusions here. http://www.leeharveyoswald.nl/?page_id=15

http://www.google.co...pply.*%22&btnG= Getting the message through: a branch history of the U.S. Army ... - Page 298 books.google.comRebecca Robbins Raines, Center of Military History - 1996 - 464 pages - Google eBook - Preview Hence the Signal Corps became part of the Services of Supply. In June 1942 the European Theater of Operations, United States Army (ETOUSA), was organized to replace the USAFBI, and General Dwight D. Eisenhower assumed command. Brig. Gen. William S. Rumbough became the theater's chief signal.... Hey, Tom. As usual I appreciate any input regarding Harrod G Miller, General Rumbough was a big name at D-Day in Normandy, at least behind the scenes.... It is ironic you cited Getting the Message Through, [above]. A certain used bookstore here in Dallas has a copy which I have copied some material out of, but still desperately wanted the actual book, the used price was $40.00, so much for used books.......lol... Always nice to hear from you....... Here are some odds and ends I found regarding General William S. Rombaugh, and a odd story, don't know if John Rumbough was a relative of the General...... Arlington National Cemetery Gen William S Rumbough http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=59716956 Pauline and William S Rumbough Footnote 138 Ltr, Rumbough to CSigO, 2 Jul 44, sub: VHF Radio Com. SCIA file 4 Rumbough Rpts folder 2. "Radio relay equipment," General Rumbough later declared in retrospect, "is a revolutionary development in communication." In fact, radio relay alone preserved communications on more than one occasion, when wire could not keep pace during the onrush of American armies in Europe. Rumbough, "Radio Relay," Military Review, XXVI, No. 2, pp. 3-12, passim. Gen. William S. Rumbough http://www.history.army.mil/html/reference/normandy/TS/SC/SC3.htm http://www.history.army.mil/html/reference/normandy/TS/SC/End3.htm also below this particular Rumbough was on a Minutemen Club’s enemies list http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1391638 end South Florida Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale, FL) - July 12, 2002 ALZHEIMER'S PATIENT ESCAPES, DROWNS Retired bank executive John Rumbough had become so confused that earlier this year, his family moved him from his Boca Raton retirement community to an Alzheimer's skilled nursing ward nearby so he would be safe. But Rumbough still was able somehow to thwart two doors locked with security codes, a third door wired with an alarm system and a monitor strapped to his ankle, to slip outside Edgewater Pointe Estates on a rainy night Monday. Rumbough, 88, was found dead in a landscape pond about 100 yards from the building by security guards about 11:15 p.m., according to police reports. His nurses had noticed he was missing about 10:30 p.m. and, after about 45 minutes of searching, called the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office. He still had his ankle monitor on. Rumbough was one of seven residents in Edgewater's Lehman Special Care Unit who wore it there because he had kept pulling off the device when it was on his wrist. The Palm Beach County Medical Examiner has listed the death as an accidental drowning. Officials with ACTS Retirement-Life Communities, which owns Edgewater, think Rumbough waited near the unit door used by the public and ducked out on the heels of departing visitors. "He had a couple of previous episodes of wanting to get out and wanting to get out badly," said Keith Kreidel, Edgewater's executive director. "We'll never really know how he did it." The monitor automatically locks the door when a resident approaches but if it already was open, it wouldn't have mattered, Kreidel said. The monitor also should have triggered an alarm "but if someone heard it and went to the door, [Rumbough] would have been gone and they wouldn't have seen anyone," Kreidel said. Edgewater reported the incident to the state's elder abuse unit and nursing home regulators, Kreidel said, and both sent investigators on Thursday. There were five nursing assistants and two nurses with the 50 residents on the Monday night shift, slightly less than the day shift but more than the average required by the state. But the facility now has someone stationed constantly at the door and is considering additional security technology. They also are cautioning visitors, many of whom are spouses and friends who live in Edgewater's independent section. "We don't want this to happen ever again," Kreidel said. Rumbough's son, who came from New Jersey this week, agreed the incident was an accident, ACTS spokeswoman Mary-Randolph Scott said. But Lynn Barr, Rumbough's niece from Blackwood, N.J., is less supportive. "It cost a lot of money for this facility and this was not how my grandfather's life was supposed to end," she said. Mary Barnes, executive director of the Alzheimer's Community Care Association in West Palm Beach, was surprised the incident happened at Edgewater. The facility had never had an accidental death and usually scores high on state inspections. "In my past experience, they've done a great job," she said. Diane Lade can be reached at dlade@sun-sentinel.com or 561-243-6618.

Concert cellist? Ian Fleming's sister was a concert cellist, as was Virginia Pleasants - the wife of Henry Pleasants - who wrote classical movie reviews when he wasn't working for the OSS/CIA in Germany and debriefing Gehlen. And wasn't the Russian female sniper assassin in the Fleming 007 story a cellist? I think they had a cell of cellists going there. One of the frustrations about the whole John B. Hurt/Oswald business is the fact that there have been so many destroyed documents, that I always keep it in the back of my mind that documenting a link between the two is not an inevitably, point being a documented link, may have been among one of those documents. Being a realist, it is also worth reminding that the original Raleigh Call material makes no mention of John Hurt the cryptanalyst, but the two John Hurt's in North Carolina, one operated a tire repair store, the other being the former Military Intelligence chap. excerpts from Grover Proctor's article begin DECEMBER, 1962 Hurt John D 415 New Bern Av TE4-7430 Hurt John W Old Wake Forest Rd 833-1253 DECEMBER, 1963 Hurt John D 201 Hillsbro 834-7430 Hurt John W Old Wake Forest Rd 833-1253 Biography of the John Hurt in NC JOHN DAVID HURT Born May 12, 1909, River Bend, Colo. Height 5' 4" -- Weight 140# (1954) LLB, University of Virginia June 13, 1933 Wife, Billie G. ; clerk, Teachers Retirement Division, State of N.C. since 1955 or possibly earlier. Present resident;201 Hillsboro, Raleigh, N.C., Apt. 4 1967 same 1966 same 1965 same 1964 wife only listed at above address, subject gave as address Box 454, Zebulon, N.C. 1963 wife only listed at above address; no address known for subject. 1962 415 New Bern Ave., Raleigh, N.C. 1961 same 1960 same 1959 2711 St Mary Street, Raleigh, N.C. 1958 same 1957 same 1956 address inknown 1955 204 Faircloth Street, Raleigh, N.C. 1940 9 Blount Street, Raleigh, N.C. Employment according to subject's own resume; 1938 Jas. Green Co., Raleigh, N.C. Investigator 1942 to 1945 U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps. Special agent 1947 American Gas Co. Investigator, Reading, Pa. 1947 General Adjustment Bureau,Atlanta, Ga. Claims Adjuster 1952 Insurance Claims Service, Charleston, S.C. Accident Investigator 1953 F.T. Dupress, Raleigh, N.C. Investigator 1953 Southeast Adjustment Co., Martinsville, Va., Investigator Additional employment according to wife's conversation with N.C. S.B.I. Agent on July 2, 1968; Private Investigator, Southern Florida, 1963, Ocean City Md, date unknown; Delaware, date unknown. Arrests; Raleigh, N.C. July 10, 1959 Failure to stop at stop sign July 24,*Court Order on mental cast. * 1959 Sept. 29,1961, Improper Equipment (Driver's License 850960) April 17, 1964, Drunk P.I. June 6, 1968, Public Intoxication and illegal possession of tax paid liquor. August 13, 1955, O.T.P. Arrest #5655 (charge not shown) Arrest, Zebulon, N.C., 1964, Drunk and disorderly with Wendell Perry. References given by subject on job application; George L. Warthen George A. Isely T. Lacy Williams John H. AndersonJr. W. Cary Parker all of Raleigh, N.C. Occupants of building where subject resides at present; Calvin Zimmerman, owner, reportedly has Lesbian daughter of "butch" type. Marcola Pullen (Mrs) Ethel Manders Florence Dodge Bessie W. Poole Ila B. Powers (Mrs.) Dorothy Vann Intelligence reports that there have been suspected organ- ized homosexual activities in building and a murder was committed there about two or three years ago with homo- sexual motive. Neighborhood is transent and run-down, comprised mostly of commercial buildings, a bus depot, and some rooming houses. Cuban refugees reportedly occ- upy a nearby rooming house and another rooming house attracts homosexuals. 201 Hillsboro, subject's building, looks better kept than those surrounding it. end Having said that, that Oswald was deliberately trying to contact the MI Hurt, is hard for me to accept because the idea that Lee Oswald would be contacting him only makes sense if it was some sort of setup, the guy [rightly?] comes off as a little wacked out, to say the least. I also found a little bit more about the phone calls Oswald made, I still think Oswald was the one who called Hurt and not vice versa, the Dallas Police did not report to the Warren Commission the two phone numbers he had obtained. this is not verbatim, but you can see the phone numbers and to whom they are going to.... Commission Document 1406 - FBI Letter from Director of 04 Feb 1964 re: Oswald Telephone Numbers in Pocket 4 pages page 1, Captain J.W. Fritz advised that Oswald requested permission to call attorney John Abt, in New York but did not have his telephone number. Captain Fritz told Oswald he could call collect and that he would have to give the operator the name of the person he wanted without the number and it being an attorney in New York, the operator would locate Abt and furnish the telephone number to him. Captain Fritz also told Oswald the operator would want to know the number Oswald was calling from. In this connection it is noted the telephone number RI8-9711 appears on the dial of the telephone in the jail and this was one of the four numbers on the piece of paper found in Oswald’s trousers. Officer [Jim] Poppelwell advised he tore off a small piece of paper to Oswald. Our New York office has advised that the office address for attorney John J Abt is 320 Broadway, New York City the same address as the law firm of David Freedman and Abraham Unger. The telephone number for Freedman and Unger listed CO 7-3110 and this same telephone number attorney John J Abt. It is noted that the telephone number AC 2-4611 which appeared on the slip of paper found in Oswald’s trousers, is listed to attorney John J. Abt, 444 Central Park West, New York City. Telephone number RI8-9711 is the general telephone number for the City of Dallas, Texas and it is noted Captain Fritz stated that this number appeared on the dial of the telphone Oswald was utilizing. The reason why the telephone number OR 9-9450 “The Worker” (East Coast Communist Party Newspapers) appears on this list is not known. The possibility exists that the operator, at Oswald’s request or on her own initative may have attempted to reach attorney Abt at this number. END So back, to John B Hurt....Jim Root has pointed out the McCloy/Walker/Grombach connections, Gordon Blake was with NSA that did the analysis of Oswald's Russian documents ie "Questioning Eyes" for cryptographic significance, we now know that Revilo Oliver was with the Army Security Agency cryptology in the World War II era, and omitted any direct reference to it in his Warren Commission testimony, somewhere Alfred McCormack fits in, although he had died by the time of the Kennedy assassination. William P Bundy, was at Bletchley Park, which did have a Japanese section, BTW, while John B Hurt was at Arlington Hall in Washington.....William Friedman Then there is the area of possible connections genealogically between Harry D. Holmes, = both Jasper Holmes, W. J. Holmes [author Double Edged Secrets] who were on the periphery of codebreaking vis a vis Naval Intelligence, ditto Harrod G. Miller, and the tons of Miller's in Dallas...There was a Captain Harry Shaw [see The Emperors Codes. relative of LaVergne Clay Shaw?] another factoid begin A map of the Nisei linguist deployments in, let us say, 1944 would be very revealing of the intelligence infrastructure: 1. Indooroopilly Racetrack in Australia (Allied Translator and Interpreter Section— ATIS— and the Central Bureau), 2. a former furniture store in Honolulu (Joint Intelligence Center, Pacific Ocean Areas — JICPOA), 3. Camp Ritchie, Maryland (Pacific Military Intelligence Research Section— PACMIRS), 4.Warrenton, Virginia (Vint Hill Farms Station), 5. New Delhi, India (South East Asia Translation and Interrogation Center— SEATIC), 6. and an abandoned Civilian Conservation Corps camp in the Minnesota woods (Military Intelligence Service Language School— MISLS). They also accompanied soldiers and Marines in landing operations at regiment, division, and corps level and flew missions with the Army Air Forces in B-17s, B-24s, and B-29s. end Regarding the cellist area, I have one suggestion for all those who believe this is a critical area, there are a ton of books that delve into the cryptology PURPLE/ENIGMA/ULTRA area, if I were to name the one that reads as a companion to all of this, it is Michael Smith's The Emperors Codes. Read the section with the interview of Bernard Keefe, or even search google "codebreaking Bernard Keefe"

One of the reasons I never feel too bad about being the ersatz village idiot of the Forum, at least to some people, is the fact that there is a very logical and coherent reason why the areas I keep a close eye on, such as cryptography and Operation Valkyrie, can perhaps be explained as follows, with a little help from the late George Michael Evica, in addition, I can provide new information which may only be apparent to a select few. Case In Point: Take page 148 of A Certain Arrogance Subtitled The Unitarians & The FBI The [unitarian] Association's efforts to establish the truth about Noel Field "repeatedlly led to Unitarian inquiries to the FBI, and the FBI refused to open its files." One of those responsible for withholding information from the Unitarians was FBI Special Agent Robert J. Lamphere. In 1941 Lamphere had "joined a squad in the New York office working on Soviet espionage matters . . [and] until 1955 . . . [was] a specialist in counterintelligence and spy cases of the Cold War Era." Despite being part of the Bureau's unconstitutional mail intercept program, the same operation that intercepted Lee Oswald's mail, Lamphere wrote nothing on the subject in his memoir, The FBI-KGB War: A Special Agent's Story. His February 11, 2002 New York Times obituary also, predictably failed to mention this unconstitutional action. It did however, mention that Lamphere "was not as well known as his friend James J Angleton, who headed counterintelligence operations" with whom Lamphere collaborated in counter-espionage activities. Lamphere's achievements in spy code decryption have been recorded in the history of the so-called Venona case. Reportedly the Army Signal Corps and Lamphere's Bureau team opened and decoded "thousands of enciphered telegrams sent by Soviet spies in the United States to Moscow...." KGB Spy Chief Pavel Sudoplatov, however, suggested delicately that the Lamphere narrative was exaggerated: "former FBI agent Robert Lamphere.... presents a complicated story of how the FBI re-created our code books..... That may be true. I cannot absolutely exclude that code breaking might have played a role in exposing our agents....But we have reason to believe that the FBI, wanting to hide its [double] agent source of information, invented the story of code breaking." end Robert: And one cannot bring up The Unitarian Association, without, at least touching on the mysterious Albert Schweitzer College. Consider the following excerpt Commission Document 120 - FBI Oxley Report of 06 Dec 1963 5 pages re: Oswald; Dr. Robert H. Schacht, 138 Congdon Street, Providence, Rhode Island, Minister at the First Unitarian Church, was interviewed. Because the Oswald application was 'approved,' Dr. Schacht said. I am sure that he must have given three references, and their reports must have appeared satisfactory. "But I cannot recall who they were." Benevolent Street re-affirmed the correctness of the article. he explained that the school was not actually a true college, because it gives no degrees, courses are less than a year, with the ultimate end of working for world unity. On Monday December 2, 1963 he received a letter dated November 29, 1963 from Miss ERIKA WEIBER, Secretary at the Albert Schweitzer College, which reminded him that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had applied for admission to the school in the fall of 1959 for the spring sememster of 1960 Oswald's mother had contacted the school requesting information as to the whereabouts of her son as she had not seen him "for several months" and the inquiry was conducted at the school by the FBI through the Bern Via Chur Police Department SA's JOSEPH A. OXLEY & WALTER M. BRADY By the way, the Soviet KGB's 18th Directorate dealt specifically with codebreaking and cryptology, although those files may or may not ever be seen, and any connections to Oswald, [along the same lines as the NSA's Rhyming Dictionary had to Oswald and Ruby] would be speculative. I also discovered an interesting genealogical fact about the codebreaker extraordinaire John Hurt. see below United States Census, 1920 for John B Hurt Name: John B Hurt Residence: , Wythe, Virginia Estimated Birth Year: 1905 Age: 15 Birthplace: West Virginia Relationship to Head of Household: Son Gender: Male Race: White Marital Status: Single Father's Birthplace: Virginia Mother's Birthplace: Virginia Film Number: 1821919 Digital Folder Number: 4392026 Image Number: 00378 Sheet Number: 4 Household Gender Age Parent John P Hurt M 42y Parent Edith J Hurt F 40y John B Hurt M 15y Joseph Hurt M 12y Jake Hurt M 11y Elizabeth Hurt F 8y Clarence Hurt M 6y Virginia Hurt F 4y9m Joseph B Schaffer M 66y https://www.familyse...4YP/p_427391850 So, apparently the Schaffer family, [remember Congressman Joe Shaffer was John B Hurt's uncle] was fairly close to each other Joseph B Shaffer above was undoubtedly related to the Congressman, and John apparently had a lot of brothers and sisters. Robert: Last but not least Jim's mention of Helsinki, brought to mind a factoid about George Joannides, the JMWAVE bigwig, the agency brought out of retirement, to interface with G. Robert Blakey's college students who were trying to access CIA files. Joannides was the "liason," between the two. It is, I believe certain that George Joannides was linked to AMBARB and AMHINT see George Joannides Thread, Steve Rosen post #123, if so the following document shows AMBARB had connections to Helsinki DISPATCH: OPERATIONAL/AMSPELL PROGRESS REPORT - JULY 1962 pg 5 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 26: DRE - JURE) covered under AMSPELL general A (_1) and AMSPELL development and plans A (4) C AMBARB 1) General The main AMBARB project of the reporting period was launching of the delegation to Helsinki (WAVE 5944). Reports gleaned from newspaper coverage indicate that activities of the delegation were highly successful, and that AMBARB representatives contributed substantially to disruption of the conference. Pending the return of members of the delegation who will render a complete report to be pouched separately We will forward to Headquarters the AMBARB account when received, for your interest RIF#: 104-10171-10334 (08/14/62) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferre....do?docId=52396 Even though this does not pertain directly to John B Hurt, I think this one time I can excused..... Prof Revilo Pendleton Oliver http://www.jfk-assas...l15/page730.php Mr. Jenner. Do you teach Latin and Greek, too, or have you? Mr. Oliver. Oh, that is classics. Mr. Jenner. I see. During the war did you have some special assignment militarily oriented or Government oriented ? Mr. Oliver. Yes; during the war I was on leave from the university for service with the War Department. Mr. Jenner. And without revealing any secrets, would you tell us the general nature of that? Mr. Oliver. The general nature of that was work that is supposedly secret in nature. I can only say I was with the War Department and that the offices in which I principally worked were located on Lee Boulevard* in Arlington, and not in the Pentagon. Mr. Jenner. Was this civilian oriented rather than army oriented? Mr. Oliver. I was a civilian expert. It was, however, an Army Establishment under the command of a general. Mr. Jenner. What was that, research work? Mr. Oliver. Yes; under the command of a brigadier general, I should say. Mr. Jenner. This research work, did that involve any work of investigating or inquiring into the commission of crimes or conspiracies, work of that nature? Mr. Oliver. Not actual investigation on my part. end later there is this Mr. Jenner. You then go on to state what appears to be a statement of fact or you represent it to be. "In June of 1963 an experienced American military man made a careful analysis of the situation at that time, and in his highly confidential report concluded, on the basis of indications in Communist and crypto Communist sources, that the conspiracy's schedule called for a major incident to create national shock before Thanksgiving." Who is that experienced American military man to whom you had reference? ( Conferring with counsel. ) Mr. Oliver. The observer mentioned there is Col. Chesley Clark, retired. Mr. Jenner. Clark. Mr. Oliver. C-l-a-r-k, of the American Air Force. Mr. Jenner. Did he publish--this is a new name to me--- did he publish something on which you rely in making that statement? Mr. Oliver. This he told me not with a pledge that it was confidential, but with the implication that I would not disclose his name in a publication. I see no bar to disclosing it for the purpose of these hearings. If I may say, his estimates were made entirely from, what should we say, experience in psychological warfare and in reading the indications in the sequence of events and the form the propaganda was taking, and that the obviously had not, so far as I know, no inside information Mr. Jenner. This conversation or conversations that you had had with Colonel Clark, did it or they occur between the time of the assassination and the time of the publication of your article ? Mr. Oliver. No, before the assassination, I am sure. I would say perhaps--it is hard to recollect but I would say a month or 6 weeks before. Mr. Jenner. I take it, I don't even like to say this because I don't want you to take it wrong, certainly there was nothing in Colonel Clark's statement to you, sir, that carried any implication of any anticipation of a possible assassination of President Kennedy? Mr. Oliver. No. Of a, however--it did astutely anticipate some event that would create a national shock. Mr. Jenner. When I say I hesitate to say it but I know what you would have done, I think I know what you would 'have done, had there been any implication, you would have alarmed the authorities. Mr. Oliver. There was no-- Mr. Jenner. I am correct about that, am I not? Mr. Oliver. You are correct about that. The nature of the event that would create this shock was, of course, necessarily speculative. Mr. Jenner. All right. Then you discuss the feeling of men like you, that there was some crisis about to take place, and this feeling was communicated to you by men like Colonel Clark and others FROM THE ARCHIVES CODETALKERS NOT WANTED Cryptologia, Jan 2005 by Kahn, David At the National Archives, I came across a sheaf of interesting documents about American Indian codetalkers. Some of the information they provided is widely known, like that about Philip Johnston, who almost single-handedly persuaded the Marines to use Navajos for secrecy in radiotéléphonie communications. One item reports on the World War I use of Choctaws. But some of the other items show that the Army, Navy, and Air Corps did not want American Indians as codetalkers, offering various objections. These documents offer a more rounded view of the use of native Americans than much of the literature and the film "Windtalkers" and help to explain why all services did not employ codetalkers. In the documents, Colonel McCormack, whose first name was Alfred, was the deputy director of the Military Intelligence Division's Special Branch, which edited solved messages for higher authority, including the president. Colonel, later Brigadier General, W. Preston Corderman commanded the Signal security Agency, the Army's central codebreaking organization. William F. Friedman, the spiritus rector of American Army cryptology, was its director of research. Who lawyer Carl Wheat was, or why he got involved, or why he was writing Friedman at his home instead of his office, are unknown to me. The documents come from the National Archives, Record Group 457 [Records of the National security Agency], Entry 9032, Box 949, Folder 55A: "Memoranda Use of American Indians as Communications Linguists 1943-1944." 8 September 1943 Memo for Colonel McCormack: 1. It is possible that this idea was "tried with little success in Word War I" but it is thought that official records would disclose that the idea was merely suggested and discarder as impractical and dangerous, not only from the standpoint of security but also from the standpoint of accuracy. 2. It is difficult at times for two intelligent and quite fluent speakers to understand each other on good commercial telephone circuits; when the circuits are only fair or bad, as they often are under adverse field conditions, then the quality of the signals becomes so poor that serious misunderstandings are very likely to arise. 3. The use of Indians for the purpose indicated will really mean that they would be employed in the capacity of interpreters serving as intermediaries between the unit commanders concerned. The danger of misunderstanding arising from this source, even in ordinary, every day life, is recognized; in military operations, where accuracy in, and proper understanding of technical terminology is important, they may have very serious consequences. 4. Add to the foregoing factors the fact that the vocabulary to any Indian dialect which might be selected will certainly be deficient in military and technical terms, forcing the use of the plain English terms, it is clear that security would be lessened. Or, if arbitrary designations were adopted for them, there would soon grow up a code - putting the matter back exactly where it was before, with a considerable loss in efficiency in communication. 5. So long as radiophone and telephone communications are in English unit commanders and security personal designated to monitor circuits can easily ascertain when and whether or not dangerous violations of security are occurring. If Indians were used, this would no longer be the case and unit commanders would be entirely dependent upon the good judgment of the personnel involved and their individual, personal appraisals or estimates of what may or may not be dangerous to say at a specific time over these circuits. 6. It would be better to employ present methods and personnel with a good code specifically adapted for the purpose. Recent development of a device called "Slidex" gives promise of yielding a good answer to the problem of safe and speedy radiophone communication for forward echelons. Samples of this device will be sent the New Caledonia and other commands as promptly as possible. W. Preston Corderman Colonel, Signal Corps Attached: /Msg. fm COMGENSOPAC /dtd. 6 Sept. 43 COPY ARMY WAR COLLEGE Washington, D. C. JWW; rw 29 September 1943 Col. S. P. Collins Acting Chief, Signal Security Branch, A. S. P., 300 Lee Blvd., Arlington, Virginia My dear Colonel Collins: With reference to paragraph 3, your 1st endorsement, dated September 23, 1943, as addressed to this office, I enclose a copy of an official document (23632.5) bearing on the use of Indian dialects for code purposes. This is the only document we have ever been able to locate in the official A. E. F. files on this subject. Very truly yours, /s/J. W. WRIGHT, J. W. WRIGHT, Colonel, Infantry end Regarding R P Oliver, the Lee Boulevard Address was what caught my mind..... I found the following on wikipedia, but it does not provide a footnote citation.... During World War II, Oliver worked with distinction at the U.S. Army Signal Corps installation, Arlington Hall, in cryptanalysis. From 1942 until the autumn of 1945, he came to be in charge of a rapidly expanding department, and advanced from Analyst to Director of Research (eventually responsible for the work of about 175 persons). apparently its true, did anybody else know this? Willis Carto and the American far right books.google.comGeorge Michael - 2008 - 341 pages - Snippet view was Revilo P. Oliver, who was born in 1911 in Corpus Christi, Texas, and attended high school in Louisiana and ... as a code-breaker for the Army Security Agency located at Arlington Hall in Virginia.13 He later recounted that it was .. Rocky Mountain News (CO) - August 9, 2005 Deceased Name: CLARK , CHESLEY K. Chesley K. Clark, Lt. Col. USAF (ret), 92, passed away August 4, 2005. Preceded by wife Louise. Survived by children Marian and Livingston (Brenda); grandchildren Brandon and Stephanie; and brother Philip (Elaine). Burial at Ft. Logan 8/9/05, at 3 p.m., Area B.

excerpt of WC Testimony of Prof. Revilo Pendleton Oliver http://www.jfk-assas...l15/page730.php Mr. Jenner. Do you teach Latin and Greek, too, or have you? Mr. Oliver. Oh, that is classics. Mr. Jenner. I see. During the war did you have some special assignment militarily oriented or Government oriented ? Mr. Oliver. Yes; during the war I was on leave from the university for service with the War Department. Mr. Jenner. And without revealing any secrets, would you tell us the general nature of that? Mr. Oliver. The general nature of that was work that is supposedly secret in nature. I can only say I was with the War Department and that the offices in which I principally worked were located on Lee Boulevard* in Arlington, and not in the Pentagon. Mr. Jenner. Was this civilian oriented rather than army oriented? Mr. Oliver. I was a civilian expert. It was, however, an Army Establishment under the command of a general. Mr. Jenner. What was that, research work? Mr. Oliver. Yes; under the command of a brigadier general, I should say. Mr. Jenner. This research work, did that involve any work of investigating or inquiring into the commission of crimes or conspiracies, work of that nature? Mr. Oliver. Not actual investigation on my part. end FROM THE ARCHIVES CODETALKERS NOT WANTED Cryptologia, Jan 2005 by Kahn, David At the National Archives, I came across a sheaf of interesting documents about American Indian codetalkers. Some of the information they provided is widely known, like that about Philip Johnston, who almost single-handedly persuaded the Marines to use Navajos for secrecy in radiotéléphonie communications. One item reports on the World War I use of Choctaws. But some of the other items show that the Army, Navy, and Air Corps did not want American Indians as codetalkers, offering various objections. These documents offer a more rounded view of the use of native Americans than much of the literature and the film "Windtalkers" and help to explain why all services did not employ codetalkers. In the documents, Colonel McCormack, whose first name was Alfred, was the deputy director of the Military Intelligence Division's Special Branch, which edited solved messages for higher authority, including the president. Colonel, later Brigadier General, W. Preston Corderman commanded the Signal security Agency, the Army's central codebreaking organization. William F. Friedman, the spiritus rector of American Army cryptology, was its director of research. Who lawyer Carl Wheat was, or why he got involved, or why he was writing Friedman at his home instead of his office, are unknown to me. The documents come from the National Archives, Record Group 457 [Records of the National security Agency], Entry 9032, Box 949, Folder 55A: "Memoranda Use of American Indians as Communications Linguists 1943-1944." 8 September 1943 Memo for Colonel McCormack: 1. It is possible that this idea was "tried with little success in Word War I" but it is thought that official records would disclose that the idea was merely suggested and discarder as impractical and dangerous, not only from the standpoint of security but also from the standpoint of accuracy. 2. It is difficult at times for two intelligent and quite fluent speakers to understand each other on good commercial telephone circuits; when the circuits are only fair or bad, as they often are under adverse field conditions, then the quality of the signals becomes so poor that serious misunderstandings are very likely to arise. 3. The use of Indians for the purpose indicated will really mean that they would be employed in the capacity of interpreters serving as intermediaries between the unit commanders concerned. The danger of misunderstanding arising from this source, even in ordinary, every day life, is recognized; in military operations, where accuracy in, and proper understanding of technical terminology is important, they may have very serious consequences. 4. Add to the foregoing factors the fact that the vocabulary to any Indian dialect which might be selected will certainly be deficient in military and technical terms, forcing the use of the plain English terms, it is clear that security would be lessened. Or, if arbitrary designations were adopted for them, there would soon grow up a code - putting the matter back exactly where it was before, with a considerable loss in efficiency in communication. 5. So long as radiophone and telephone communications are in English unit commanders and security personal designated to monitor circuits can easily ascertain when and whether or not dangerous violations of security are occurring. If Indians were used, this would no longer be the case and unit commanders would be entirely dependent upon the good judgment of the personnel involved and their individual, personal appraisals or estimates of what may or may not be dangerous to say at a specific time over these circuits. 6. It would be better to employ present methods and personnel with a good code specifically adapted for the purpose. Recent development of a device called "Slidex" gives promise of yielding a good answer to the problem of safe and speedy radiophone communication for forward echelons. Samples of this device will be sent the New Caledonia and other commands as promptly as possible. W. Preston Corderman Colonel, Signal Corps Attached: /Msg. fm COMGENSOPAC /dtd. 6 Sept. 43 COPY ARMY WAR COLLEGE Washington, D. C. JWW; rw 29 September 1943 Col. S. P. Collins Acting Chief, Signal Security Branch, A. S. P., 300 Lee Blvd., Arlington, Virginia My dear Colonel Collins: With reference to paragraph 3, your 1st endorsement, dated September 23, 1943, as addressed to this office, I enclose a copy of an official document (23632.5) bearing on the use of Indian dialects for code purposes. This is the only document we have ever been able to locate in the official A. E. F. files on this subject. Very truly yours, /s/J. W. WRIGHT, J. W. WRIGHT, Colonel, Infantry end Re Revilo Oliver's testimony, there is also this interesting tidbit...... Mr. Jenner. You then go on to state what appears to be a statement of fact or you represent it to be. "In June of 1963 an experienced American military man made a careful analysis of the situation at that time, and in his highly confidential report concluded, on the basis of indications in Communist and crypto Communist sources, that the conspiracy's schedule called for a major incident to create national shock before Thanksgiving." Who is that experienced American military man to whom you had reference? ( Conferring with counsel. ) Mr. Oliver. The observer mentioned there is Col. Chesley Clark, retired. Mr. Jenner. Clark. Mr. Oliver. C-l-a-r-k, of the American Air Force. Mr. Jenner. Did he publish--this is a new name to me--- did he publish something on which you rely in making that statement? Mr. Oliver. This he told me not with a pledge that it was confidential, but with the implication that I would not disclose his name in a publication. I see no bar to disclosing it for the purpose of these hearings. If I may say, his estimates were made entirely from, what should we say, experience in psychological warfare and in reading the indications in the sequence of events and the form the propaganda was taking, and that the obviously had not, so far as I know, no inside information Mr. Jenner. This conversation or conversations that you had had with Colonel Clark, did it or they occur between the time of the assassination and the time of the publication of your article ? Mr. Oliver. No, before the assassination, I am sure. I would say perhaps--it is hard to recollect but I would say a month or 6 weeks before. Regarding R P Oliver, god bless his little Nazi, Jew hating soul, the Lee Boulevard Address was what caught my mind..... I found the following on wikipedia, but it does not provide a footnote citation.... During World War II, Oliver worked with distinction at the U.S. Army Signal Corps installation, Arlington Hall, in cryptanalysis. From 1942 until the autumn of 1945, he came to be in charge of a rapidly expanding department, and advanced from Analyst to Director of Research (eventually responsible for the work of about 175 persons). If you think about it, if the above is true it is by no means minutae, Oliver connected from everything to Willis Carto, William F. Buckley, the JBS, Robert Welch et cetera... Oliver's testimony even delves into Operation Judas and Radio Swan..... I am aware of an article Oliver wrote which accused FDR of advance knowledge of Pearl Harbor, but I have never seen proof that he worked in cryptanalsis at Arlington Hall.... He died on August 10, 1994, according to one website, by suicide.

One of the reasons I never feel too bad about being the ersatz village idiot of the Forum, at least to some people, is the fact that there is a very logical and coherent reason why the areas I keep a close eye on, such as cryptography and Operation Valkyrie, can perhaps be explained as follows, with a little help from the late George Michael Evica, in addition, I can provide new information which may only be apparent to a select few. Case In Point: Take page 148 of A Certain Arrogance Subtitled The Unitarians & The FBI The [unitarian] Association's efforts to establish the truth about Noel Field "repeatedlly led to Unitarian inquiries to the FBI, and the FBI refused to open its files." One of those responsible for withholding information from the Unitarians was FBI Special Agent Robert J. Lamphere. In 1941 Lamphere had "joined a squad in the New York office working on Soviet espionage matters . . [and] until 1955 . . . [was] a specialist in counterintelligence and spy cases of the Cold War Era." Despite being part of the Bureau's unconstitutional mail intercept program, the same operation that intercepted Lee Oswald's mail, Lamphere wrote nothing on the subject in his memoir, The FBI-KGB War: A Special Agent's Story. His February 11, 2002 New York Times obituary also, predictably failed to mention this unconstitutional action. It did however, mention that Lamphere "was not as well known as his friend James J Angleton, who headed counterintelligence operations" with whom Lamphere collaborated in counter-espionage activities. Lamphere's achievements in spy code decryption have been recorded in the history of the so-called Venona case. Reportedly the Army Signal Corps and Lamphere's Bureau team opened and decoded "thousands of enciphered telegrams sent by Soviet spies in the United States to Moscow...." KGB Spy Chief Pavel Sudoplatov, however, suggested delicately that the Lamphere narrative was exaggerated: "former FBI agent Robert Lamphere.... presents a complicated story of how the FBI re-created our code books..... That may be true. I cannot absolutely exclude that code breaking might have played a role in exposing our agents....But we have reason to believe that the FBI, wanting to hide its [double] agent source of information, invented the story of code breaking." end Robert: And one cannot bring up The Unitarian Association, without, at least touching on the mysterious Albert Schweitzer College. Consider the following excerpt Commission Document 120 - FBI Oxley Report of 06 Dec 1963 5 pages re: Oswald; Dr. Robert H. Schacht, 138 Congdon Street, Providence, Rhode Island, Minister at the First Unitarian Church, was interviewed. Because the Oswald application was 'approved,' Dr. Schacht said. I am sure that he must have given three references, and their reports must have appeared satisfactory. "But I cannot recall who they were." Benevolent Street re-affirmed the correctness of the article. he explained that the school was not actually a true college, because it gives no degrees, courses are less than a year, with the ultimate end of working for world unity. On Monday December 2, 1963 he received a letter dated November 29, 1963 from Miss ERIKA WEIBER, Secretary at the Albert Schweitzer College, which reminded him that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had applied for admission to the school in the fall of 1959 for the spring sememster of 1960 Oswald's mother had contacted the school requesting information as to the whereabouts of her son as she had not seen him "for several months" and the inquiry was conducted at the school by the FBI through the Bern Via Chur Police Department SA's JOSEPH A. OXLEY & WALTER M. BRADY By the way, the Soviet KGB's 18th Directorate dealt specifically with codebreaking and cryptology, although those files may or may not ever be seen, and any connections to Oswald, [along the same lines as the NSA's Rhyming Dictionary had to Oswald and Ruby] would be speculative. I also discovered an interesting genealogical fact about the codebreaker extraordinaire John Hurt. see below United States Census, 1920 for John B Hurt Name: John B Hurt Residence: , Wythe, Virginia Estimated Birth Year: 1905 Age: 15 Birthplace: West Virginia Relationship to Head of Household: Son Gender: Male Race: White Marital Status: Single Father's Birthplace: Virginia Mother's Birthplace: Virginia Film Number: 1821919 Digital Folder Number: 4392026 Image Number: 00378 Sheet Number: 4 Household Gender Age Parent John P Hurt M 42y Parent Edith J Hurt F 40y John B Hurt M 15y Joseph Hurt M 12y Jake Hurt M 11y Elizabeth Hurt F 8y Clarence Hurt M 6y Virginia Hurt F 4y9m Joseph B Schaffer M 66y https://www.familyse...4YP/p_427391850 So, apparently the Schaffer family, [remember Congressman Joe Shaffer was John B Hurt's uncle] was fairly close to each other Joseph B Shaffer above was undoubtedly related to the Congressman, and John apparently had a lot of brothers and sisters. Robert: Last but not least Jim's mention of Helsinki, brought to mind a factoid about George Joannides, the JMWAVE bigwig, the agency brought out of retirement, to interface with G. Robert Blakey's college students who were trying to access CIA files. Joannides was the "liason," between the two. It is, I believe certain that George Joannides was linked to AMBARB and AMHINT see George Joannides Thread, Steve Rosen post #123, if so the following document shows AMBARB had connections to Helsinki DISPATCH: OPERATIONAL/AMSPELL PROGRESS REPORT - JULY 1962 pg 5 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 26: DRE - JURE) covered under AMSPELL general A (_1) and AMSPELL development and plans A (4) C AMBARB 1) General The main AMBARB project of the reporting period was launching of the delegation to Helsinki (WAVE 5944). Reports gleaned from newspaper coverage indicate that activities of the delegation were highly successful, and that AMBARB representatives contributed substantially to disruption of the conference. Pending the return of members of the delegation who will render a complete report to be pouched separately We will forward to Headquarters the AMBARB account when received, for your interest RIF#: 104-10171-10334 (08/14/62) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferre....do?docId=52396

I am not aware of anything he [Verb] said about Kenneth Smith, Roy Schaeffer mentions Hal Verb, so.......... Hal Verb’s ARRB Testimony is here, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/arrb/index75.htm . There was a Kenneth Smith who was affiliated with Counterspy Magazine See http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01?Na=Smith%2C+Kenneth I seriously doubt the NY Times Kenneth Smith is the same guy, but hey who knows. Like I mentioned in my last post here is the reference to an FBI agent named Kenneth Smith maybe he isn’t FBI, but it sort of seems like it. http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/18361/jfksnew.txt As for Schweiker see page 170 of the Last Investigation he basically was shot out of the HSCA aspect of the investigation, mainly because Sen. Daniel Inoyue said we’ll take it from here, after Sprague's look see into the JFK stuff. Sprague predicted correctly that [inoyue’s efforts, assuming there were any genuine efforts] would amount to zilch, which is where matters stayed until the HSCA formed.

Well, the only real logical explanation I can think of is he probably meant that the presidential motorcade literally stopped, I realize there isn't unanimity about whether the motorcade, came to a complete stop, or slowed to a virtual stop, but that is my take on it.....I did some looking around at NARA and found a FBI agent with the same name, but this doesen't seem to be the same person, at any rate; I am glad somebody answered. My own view is that there were some people a little on the bubble ie testifying and/or coming forward, some were putting themselves on the line.... Howard Burris and son, certainly come to mind, although they may have just corresponded with HSCA ..... I guess when your rumored to be the bagman in the JFK assassination, things like that can happen..

Hilarious Mark! I thought something quite similar about the disconnectedness, but was under the impression that Smith was alluding to certain details, without being able to disclose them, as he was unsure as to their official status. Additionally, it may be helpful to get the context of the environment in which he was proposing these various pieces of information - as it appears some of it may have been voluntarily offered in reference to what he had heard previously, during the same hearing. Looks as if Roy Schaeffer testified before Kenneth Smith, and he is referring to some of Schaeffer's comments. Schaeffer also loses his train of thought. - lee I can't believe a thread like this was left hanging, not to be blunt, but if this is minutae,...........anybody agree that this is not something deserving of being totally ignored?

Hoping for the Happiest of Birthday's, and hey, [on a non-JFK note] at least the NFL Strike was settled, maybe, if something that big can happen, ditto Nnamdi Asomugha; the debt ceiling negotiations might even work out...lol But seriously......Bill, you are in a class by yourself, and as a recent thread suggests, if you're being vehemently criticized, in your case, that mean's your doing a bangup job... Robert