Robert Howard

It seems there are some genealogy issues regarding Baron von Albensleben, so I am reposting an earlier post from this thread: Forum members might find the following post assassination news stories interesting, as they pertain to D.H. Byrd's safari. From the Dallas Morning News January 9, 1964 Sec 3 Page 1 YOUNG HUNTRESS Storybook Adventures Real By Ann Donaldson Society Editor of the News Hollywood could not have picked the script: A German baron who attends safaris on a concession larger than the country of Belgium; his beautiful wife, a native African with the background of a famous old Portuguese family. But Baron and Baroness W.V. Alvensleben of Lourenco Marques, Mozambique, are for real, and are in Dallas as guests of Col. D. Harold Byrd. Col. Byrd returned to Dallas three weeks ago from a hunt on the huge concession 1,000 kilometers north of the seaport city of Lourenco Marques. THE CONCESSION, rented from the Portuguese government, can be reached by "bumpy roads that are agony to travel," or "charter plane---- there are two airstrips," says the olive-skinned baroness. Clients are mostly American and have included Dr. Vander Davidson of Dallas and two Wichita Falls couples, Mr. and Mrs. Jerry Vincent and Mr. and Mrs. Steve Gose. The baroness' father arrived in Mozambique in 1914 to practice law. He was married by proxy, and his wife came to Mozambique later. "My mother's parents had a fit says the former de Sousa Costa. Going to Africa was like going to the end of the world in those days." Educated in Lourenco Marques and in Portugal, the baroness speaks perfect English she learned at a Portuguese convent and from tutors at her grandparents estate. She married Baron Alvensleben, former manager of a gold mine in Rhodesia, 18 years ago, often accompanies him on safaris. THE FIRST ANIMAL she shot was the "sweet, harmless impala." and she has gotten to the stage where "I shoot, but feel sorry to kill. To satisfy a caprice of mine I'd, still like to shoot an elephant." To hunt, the baroness wears khaki clothes, "so the animals won't see." Khaki hats, comfortable boots and sweaters for mornings and evenings during the cool months of June, July and August. Even though it's a sport, it's hard work, explains the tall, slender, brunette. "We rise at 4:00 A.M., because my husband likes it that way. It is a beauty to see the sun rise and the animals come out from under the trees. The fauna is the wealth of our nation" Baron Alvensleben has also reached the stage where he prefers looking to shooting. The only animal they have mounted is the buffalo. You cant just put those heads anywhere. Anyway, when you are in contact with the animals you don't care about mounting them." The concession is closed during the hot rainy months, from Dec. 1 to April, and the Alvensleben's have been in the United States since the close of the season. Baroness Alvensleben, who speaks six languages (German, French, English, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese), has traveled all over the world but claims that "here in the United States is the largest quantity of beautiful girl's and women." The baroness and baron accompanied Col and Mrs. Byrd to the ball Mr and Mrs N. J. DeSanders gave Saturday night for his debutante daughters Sue and Janet DeSanders. "Above all, I am a woman," says the chic baroness. And I enjoyed seeing the elegant decorations, and the beautiful gowns. From Dallas they will go to Wichita Falls. They were also in Las Vegas for the presentation of the Weatherby Trophy, to the best hunter of the year, presented December 7. "We are enchanted with our American friends and the kind hospitality they have shown us." says the baroness. "We have been to so many parties, that I have gained several pounds and lost much sleep." When the baron and baroness return to Mozambique at the end of January, she will rest and "restore my energies." From the January 19, 1964 Dallas Morning News Baron Takes Look at Texas Hunters By Kenneth Fores Outdoor Editor of the News He was tall enough to have been a basketball player, he had a scar on the left side of his face that ran from his mouth to his ear and about which he volunteered nothing but he furnished a view of American hunters from the other side of the fence. From the white hunters side of the fence, that is, the men who take the American's hunting, who live with them for weeks, who often face death with then when they go up against mighty beasts. He was Baron Werner Von Alvensleben, and although he used the broad A of the English, and last was lost and grass was gross, that von indicated Prussian descent and that long wicked scar could have come from a saber in a schoolboy fight. "Did that scar come from a African spear?" he was asked by this columnist. "No," he answered and began talking about American hunters, and the man was qualified for such, for Baron Von Alvensleben ("Just call me Werner," he said when Col. Harold D. Byrd introduced him) arranged Byrd's recent African safari as director of Safarilandia had arranged many more and had watched many an American hunter. From a distant little or big corner, depending on how you look at it, of the world he came from Portuguese East Africa also curiously named Mozambique and from a beautiful and very modern city named Lourenco Marques Lo RAN soo Mer KASH in case your Portuguese aint grade A. Mozambique isn't a little corner of the world, being longer than Texas, 1,300 miles though only 400 miles wide, and in it there is an area, the Save Hunting Concession,leased to Mozambique Safari- landia, Lda., of 34,000 square miles, or as big as Switzerland, said red-faced sandy-haired Baron Just-Call-Me-Werner. To spot Mozambique, it is that eastern coast of Africa just opposite Mozambique, which is longer than Texas, too. In that Save Hunting Concession, where less than 10 per cent of the game is shot annually, being considerably under the natural increase and must be given the natives, Col Byrd and Dr. V.A. Davidson of Dallas shot 26 different species in a couple of weeks. Dr. Davidson got a 62-inch kudo, near the world record, and Byrd a 60-incher which is quite high,plus a 43-inch buffalo and a 41-inch sable which is in the record class. Most of Mozambique Hunters Texan But down to the interesting comments on how the tall Mozambique baron, who married a Portuguese lady of the first family, sees the men from this country who come wagging cannons. Firstly the Baron seemed quite qualified to speak of the Texas variety of American's, for he said "80 per cent of our hunters are Texans. Fifteen percent come from California and five per cent from the rest of the world." Then the baron added a slant. "One of my hunters George Gedek, speaks with a Texan drawl. He doesent knoaw anything else. He's only hunted with Texans you see." The he got onto the Texans. "Americans who come to our place are all sportsmen. All save one mon. There must be one bad egg everywhere, it seems but the great majority of Americans are good sportsmen. Then they are different from the hunters of other nations. They are much tougher. Most are used to rugged conditions. They have hunted Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, British Columbia, Alaska, where you have got to be able to take it. Such people find Africa comparatively easy." Then the man from Mozambique, where a three week safari costs $3,500 and a for week safari costs $ 4,100 in addition to transportation there, got onto guns. "American's believe in high powered rifles. Your American rifle, the Weatherby and the Winchester, are fine rifles. Europeans cawnt do as well, they dont have the rifles, or they dont have time, or the opportunity to practice. So Americans are much better shots. Your Herb Klein is a grond example." And what do these American hunters want to shoot? "Texan's want a lion and leopard first," replied the Baron then a kudu, lostly the elephant. There is a tremendous argument as to the most dangerous onimal in Africa, No not the buff," he said to Byrd. "You can see him, the wounded lion or leopard is on you like lightning. The wounded leopard is the more dangerous of the two. Invariably it will attack. But I count the elephont as the most dangerous. An elephant is able to reason. My greatest friend and co-hunter Horst Rohe was killed by an elephant in 1952. Quite a few of my friends have been killed by them. Mechanized man is the only enemy the elephont has. "Wally Johnson, Harold's white hunter, who has killed over 1,000 elephants, shot one six times last year, and it escaped into the bush. He was back there six months ago. That elephant attacked him. The wound scars proved it." It was but natural to ask a man who has lived in Mozambique for 17 years, or since the end of World War II, what his closest call has been. "My narrowest escape," he replied was at Elm and St. Paul yesterday in front of the Athletic Club. This town is much more dangerous than the bush. Onimals dont do you any harm unless you or someone has wounded them. You cawnt say thot for Dallas drivers. Then he got back to American hunters "American women are great sports and good shots. Mrs. Marty Gose of Wichita Falls killed everything with one shot. Mrs Jack O' Connor, wife of the Outdoor Life gun editor mostly, did the same. I have seen American women outshoot their husbands. "But there is one thing we do note. The only things Americans are afraid of are bugs. But by God they disinfect themselves with the amount of whiskey they drink. No mosquito would have a chance with them. They swerve off from them." So, George deMohrenschildt wasn't the only Baron who shows up in the JFK saga. Whether there is any other interesting material from this 'peripheral to the assassination' aspect remains to be seen. A word of warning.....beware of assuming anything about the Baron, especially his political affiliations. In World War 2, the Baron apparently was imprisoned by the Nazi's, from what I understand.... But....... I do not have the book....But it is readily available. See It is said in one of Capstick's safari related books, that Albensleben recieved the lengthy scar "fencing in Heidelberg," http://www.booktrail.com/Hunting_Africa/baronin.asp I wonder if the Alvensleben's were familiar with the Baron von Tscheppe-Weidenbach family, in the old country?

I have for some time been wnating to get this thread back to matching what it is supposed to be about, and the following is more than slightly interesting..... Photograph of Dallas Police Department mug shot Willie Guerra taken August 18, 1963. [Full name Willie Morales Guerra] April 5, 1965 [Monday] The body of David Vasquez of 4600 block of Sylvester is found in car near Temple. He was apparently murdered on April 1, 1965 in the 5400 block of Singleton Charged are Patricio Guerra, 23; Willie Guerra 20, and Gilbert Martinez, a brother-in-law of the younger Guerra [News 4/16/65] http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40393&relPageId=172 MFF Chronologies for August 18, 1963 have nothing regarding this person http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40391&relPageId=47 08/18/63 an unknown author Photographic Image: Smaller Than 3" X 5" Mug shot of Willie Morales Guerra, negative number 91-001/282 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/41/4193-001.gif reference for MFF Chronologies account of Vasquez murder April 9. 1965 Dallas Morning News, page 1 3 Persons Sought in Death of Man http://www.houseofnames.com/guerra-family-crest So the reason I am posting this is.... The murder of David Vasquez, is not what this is about. That is post JFK Assassination, and to be blunt, more or less irrelevant in this case so far. What is pertinent, is that the photo in the Dallas Archives is dated Augugt 18, 1963... which, IS before the assassination. So the question which I cannot answer is what had this person done on August 18, 1963, which led to him having a mugshot. The last time I looked you didn't get a mugshot without doing something illegal, on the day you did it, and the historical record doesen't seem to indicate what that was..... Maybe I am naive, but in a normal repository of records related to a criminal investigation, one wouldn't even be asking this question, there would be an answer and there would be no ambiguity..... but then again, this is the JFK assassination.

Martin, I think you are confusing the manner in which Jim Fetzer presents his ideas with the ideas themselves. Any rational person has to admit there is very strong witness testimony to the limo stop, for example. The manner in which Jim Fetzer presents this information may grate, but he has sufficient witness testimony on his side that argument in and of itself cannot be ignored. There is also the observations at Parkland of an avulsive wound in the back of the head, but according to ITEK, the extant film shows no debris exiting the back of the head. In fact such material exiting the rear of Kennedy's head should have been one of the predominant features of the film, were it genuine. I do not agree with all of Dr. Fetzer's ideas, nor the manner in which he speaks to those with whom he disagrees. But separate the man from his claims, and give thought only to the claims. OK, not all the claims, but ones which have obvious corroboration -- the limo stop for one. Sometimes confusion and conflict within the community are not caused by the works of Jim Fetzer, but by the extraordinary way evidence was falsified in this case, enough to make the collective research community's heads spin in collective confusion. Having said that, I do wish Dr.Fetzer would tone it down, if only to gain a more sympathetic hearing on points where I believe he is on solid ground. Regards, Daniel By the same token, Daniel, surely any rational person has to admit that there is very strong witness testimony to the limo slowing down? And if a rational person then compares the two sets of witness testimony to each other (one being the limo stopped versus the other being the limo slowed down, almost to a halt) which would the rational person conclude was more likely if he was basing it upon the said evidence? And the Nix film also shows blood and brain matter being expelled forward so that film too has to be altered which then begins to take us into "Chris Matthews is going to have a field day" type territory. Fetzer believes it is this type of evidence that can be used to buy the American Public into easily understanding the nature of the conspiracy. He says this and then instructs you to read 15 books and go view John Costella's numerous internet videos. I say anyone who thinks these items can be used to buy large groups of people into beliveing there was a conspiracy is as mad as a hatter. Even if they're true... Regards Lee Researchers bashing other researchers is a lose-lose proposition, irrespective of the validity of the reasoning processes which "rationalize" it. I have books by James Fetzer and Josiah Thompson.... and both have made significant contributions......we [the Forum] have a large audience, and when this stuff goes on it hurts all of us, because we are recognized as a community, however fragmented it is. I have yet to see an example of this sort of stuff going on, in which the phrase "check your ego at the door," wouldn't have solved the issue before it was started.

[...] [...] P.S. Note how Tan Jacket Man, as he turns around and starts walking, hands something (something black and about the size of a pistol to the blue-coated Cuban-looking man... (You can view it in slower motion on the JFK Assassination Forum. I forget which thread though. lol) Note, too, the black (Cuban?) adolescent and two black (Cuban?) men who look at "Long Coat Man" in the background at the same time that TJM does and start leaving at exactly the same time as he does and start following him. In a less-severely cropped version of this footage, you can also see a Rambler station wagon (with its headlights on) in the background and a little to the right of center and another "Long Coat" (Rip Robertson or John Adrian O'Hare?) gets real close to it and then veers of to his right... I think that TJM was the guy that Howard Brennan and Amos Euins saw in the "sniper's nest" and was also the guy seen getting into the Rambler station wagon by Roger Craig. augmented and edited Bumped. See the P.S. I've just added. --Tommy One very important film, so much so that Richard Trask [Pictures of The Pain] was pretty excited about was the Roy Cooper Don Cook Film, which "surprisingly or not surprisingly" the footage was rescued from the garbage can before more morally upright minds decided history deserved better than some TV station executives in Dallas had deemed the case; at any rate the film has to be observed if a serious look at the crime scene is to be explored. Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kaVM2-9f3Q

As a ersatz Happy Thanksgiving, trying to give something special "it has come to my attention" that the 1963 House Un-American Activities Committee hearings on the FPCC, in which the last one took place five days before the JFK assassination, November 18, 1963 are available online....... http://www.archive.org/stream/violationsofstat04unit/violationsofstat04unit_djvu.txt http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/united-states-congress-house-committee-on-un-am/annual-report-for-the-year--volume-1963-tin/page-12-annual-report-for-the-year--volume-1963-tin.shtml http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/united-states-congress-house-committee-on-un-am.shtml the middle url is the best one from what I can tell, the first one has some jumbled text. Although I have not read ALL of the 22 pages....This document is big, and I have a profound sense of disappointment that this document doesent seem to be either at historymatters.com or maryferrell.org. Not that that is anyone's fault....But after reading it assuming such, you might ask yourself how much more the learning curve would have been accelerated regarding what we know about the assassination had this document been common knowledge instead of having to order it through the Government Printing Office. I want to personally thank Harry Dean, because I wouldn't even know such a document even existed if he hadn't mentioned it on another FPCC thread.... I will say that there are several threads on the Forum, this document relates to IMO.... A Photographic Mystery....see references to "KLM Airlines flights" in above document.... And threads involving the Luce family, and cryptologist John B Hurt...It would also be wise to remember John B Hurt, in light of the fact that North Carolina and Chapel Hill are featured quite prominently. It also might be wise to bump the thread on the FPCC where the article which lists the original founding members of the FPCC are listed. Taber and Gibson are pretty important...lol. Cheers

This may or may not be new information but the URL below leads to the obit for Jack Edwin Dougherty who is not exactly an obscure TSBD employee, at least in 2011 on the Forum http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Dougherty&GSfn=Jack+&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=46&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=67466549&df=all& Jack E. Dougherty Born: Aug. 12, 1923 Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Death: Dec. 29, 1994 Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Family links: Parents: Redfern C Dougherty (1897 - 1978) Mary Kriese Dougherty (1899 - 1993) Burial: Calvary Hill Cemetery Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Plot: Section L Created by: RC Karnes Record added: Mar 26, 2011 Find A Grave Memorial# 67466549 Here is his maryferrell.org bio page for confirmation purposes http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/marysdb/showRec.do?id=3407 If I were a rich man, I would hire a fulltime genealogist to look into the whole same last name phenomenom and try to get that whole dynamic covered, but I am like a lot of people in 2011, the moneytree has been shaken pretty good...lol I suppose this is more for Richard Gilbride's edification but hopefully we are all trying to assimilate as much as possible. I also have run across something that could be really important, [and believe me, when I say that it could be important it is because I try to overlook nothing.....and I eat, breathe and drink this stuff] so the word could is written for a reason, I don't like to generate interest in roads to nowhere, but I also don't have time to research every jot and tittle of the assassination but I ran across this awhile back and am sort of stumped as to whether there is more to this incident than what is written, if not or if it could be a clue to some sort of "fallback plan" in case Ruby was foiled trying to shoot Oswald. The relationship is the same dynamic of a "running man" after the shooting, in this case after Ruby shot Oswald; However, it may be something that happened exactly as it is stated. GAFFNEY, WILLIAM FRANK Sources: CE 2003, p. 366; CE 2249 Mary's Comments: 31-year-old black male arrested running from City Hall after the shooting of LHO. Worked for Cockrell & Winniford, 2712 Live Oak, Dallas, TX (214) TA 4-6741. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1141&relPageId=178 So the story is Gaffney, 3132 Morgan, was sightseeing on the first floor when, after Ruby shot Oswald, Sergeant J.P. Everett looks up and sees Gaffney run towards the Harwood Street exit. At which point he was placed under "temporary detention,"after being chased down by Everett and Officer Putnam and Officer R. T. Davis. So, I understand the dynamics of being African-American in Dallas in 1963, but he was the only guy that ran. There is something about this that makes me wonder if there is more to it than what transpired according to the document. I realize I am putting myself on the line here sort of, but I would rather be wrong, than have someone ask me "why didn't you say something and have to say...because you didn't ask.

Hi Robert The information is regarding John David Hurt. Not John B. Hurt. Bill was replying to my post. #120. Regards Lee Lee, Tom, Bill......It is embarrassing for me to admit, but I have always gotten the Hurt's confused, you can probably go back to some old posts and see lapses, at least now I know why I didn't have anything on Melville Grimes, Esquire...it was because most of my notes and files are about the cryptologist John B Hurt, although I have perused the John David Hurt related files quite a bit as well. I still think its funny that I found the guy's obit even though I was searching for him under my own mistaken assumption.....I don't know why I have a names problem....but is memory related and not intentional.....Even with my goofup you all should check out the "Hidden FPCC history" thread and related URL's.....

As a ersatz Happy Thanksgiving, trying to give something special "it has come to my attention" that the 1963 House Un-American Activities Committee hearings on the FPCC, in which the last one took place five days before the JFK assassination, November 18, 1963 are available online....... http://www.archive.org/stream/violationsofstat04unit/violationsofstat04unit_djvu.txt http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/united-states-congress-house-committee-on-un-am/annual-report-for-the-year--volume-1963-tin/page-12-annual-report-for-the-year--volume-1963-tin.shtml http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/united-states-congress-house-committee-on-un-am.shtml the middle url is the best one from what I can tell, the first one has some jumbled text. Although I have not read ALL of the 22 pages....This document is big, and I have a profound sense of disappointment that this document doesent seem to be either at historymatters.com or maryferrell.org. Not that that is anyone's fault....But after reading it assuming such, you might ask yourself how much more the learning curve would have been accelerated regarding what we know about the assassination had this document been common knowledge instead of having to order it through the Government Printing Office. I want to personally thank Harry Dean, because I wouldn't even know such a document even existed if he hadn't mentioned it on another FPCC thread.... I will say that there are several threads on the Forum, this document relates to IMO.... A Photographic Mystery....see references to "KLM Airlines flights" in above document.... And threads involving the Luce family, and cryptologist John B Hurt...It would also be wise to remember John B Hurt, in light of the fact that North Carolina and Chapel Hill are featured quite prominently. It also might be wise to bump the thread on the FPCC where the article which lists the original founding members of the FPCC are listed. Taber and Gibson are pretty important...lol. Cheers

Yea, I figured that out myself Tom. Did the arithmatick but found his story, especially the way he was killed, and the motive, pretty fascinating. The Grimes Robert came up with is the Man. Can you get any goods on him? The Ohio insurance angles are interesting, as Ruth Paine's father was in the insurance business in Ohio. BK Bill, I am a little confused, I have a huge file on John B Hurt, but regarding the source of the sentence you wrote... ..Hurt stated his commanding officer in the C.I.C. was Melville Grimes, who he believes is now practicing law in Baltimore..... I thought I had everything on Hurt that had ever been written...I don't really need to know the source, but in your opinion, it is bona fide right.....? The was an FBI agent named Grimes who authored a WC Document, but that probably nothing....more interesting is...... Widows pg 350, by Corson, William R, & Trento, Susan... (1979) ......have a drinking problem No I never saw him drink liquor. Back in Washington Colonel Grimes and Noel Jones spent the day briefing top Army brass from the Pentagon and FBI officials including Eugene...... Anyone have more....

This is what I have..... two different obits [not identical] Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA) - May 17, 2001 Oscar M . Grimes -- Retired lawyer, 80 Oscar M. "Mel" Grimes, 80, a retired lawyer and Army counterintelligence officer during World War II, died of heart failure Sunday at Chestnut Ridge assisted-living facility in Wallingford. He formerly lived in Drexel Hill. Mr. Grimes was a lawyer for nearly 40 years before retiring in 1984. He concentrated on insurance law and worked for the Insurance Co. of North America and Ohio Casualty Co. after beginning his career in his native Baltimore. In 1966, Mr. Grimes opened an independent claim service, O.M. Grimes Co., in Center City, and maintained the business until retiring to Gandys Beach, N.J. During World War II, Mr. Grimes, whose father was police chief of Baltimore County, joined the Army's 441st Counterintelligence Corps, his family said. His detachment was responsible for the investigation and apprehension of saboteurs and their activities in the United States, Europe and Japan. He once led a raid on a Gestapo headquarters in Germany and earned a Bronze Star, his family said. His hobbies were furniture-making and carpentry. Surviving are his wife of nearly 50 years, Frances Eisenhardt Grimes; son Donald M.; daughter Joan Ann Coper; a sister; and three grandchildren. Services were held yesterday. Burial will be private. XXXXXX Delaware County Daily Times (Primos - Upper Darby, PA) - May 17, 2001 Deceased Name: Oscar M . 'Mel' Grimes Jr., 80; decorated WWII intelligence agent, attorney, insurance executive (obit) Oscar M. "Mel" Grimes Jr., 80, of Drexel Hill, who earned high honors as a counter intelligence agent during World War II and later became a lawyer and insurance executive, died May 13 at Chestnut Ridge Assisted Living in Wallingford. Mr. Grimes received the Bronze Star in 1945 from Brigadier General M.B. Halsey for heading raids against Gestapo headquarters during which arrests of German agents were made, his family said. He was commanding officer of the counter intelligence corps detachment of the 97th infantry. Mr. Grimes was born in Baltimore. He earned a law degree from the University of Baltimore in 1940. During World War II, Mr. Grimes served two years in the U.S. Army, then was captain of the 441st counter intelligence corps for three years. He worked many years for the Insurance Company of North America and later rose to vice president of claims at Ohio Casualty Co. Mr. Grimes created a Philadelphia independent claim service, O.M. Grimes Co., in 1966. He retired to Gandy's Beach, N.J., with his wife, Francis Eisenhardt Grimes, after suffering a medical disability in 1984. Mr. Grimes became the unofficial mayor of Gandy's Beach. He twice served as post commander of the Vandiver-Moylan American Legion Post, where he stayed active until his death. Survivors: Son, Donald M.; daughter, Joan Ann Coper; sister, Shirley Nippard of Ellicott City, Md.; three grandchildren. Visitation: 7-9 tonight at Vraim Funeral Home, 66 South State Road, Upper Darby. Burial: Private. Contributions: Vandiver-Moylan Post 355 American Legion, P.O. Box 57, Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004.

I believe one of the most important aspects of the Maryan Franciscus Brandstetter issue is determining if he had a cryptonym, in light of information contained in this book, there is no excuse for his name to not be mentioned in the HSCA deposition testimony of Dorothe Matlack, James Powell, Harold Frindall or James Hosty or earlier when the Warren Commission deposed George DeMohrenschildt. Brandy's genealogical backgound, Koszeg, Austria and GDM's Haitian sojourn makes the idea that DeMohrenschildt "did not know of him period" seem highly doubtful, although that is just an opinion. On the other hand the fact that Brandstetter remained highly active in matters pertaining to national security decades later, would be a "legitimate," at least from the governmental point of view, reason to withhold his name. Arguably he would have been referenced as either in Acapulco, Cuba, or Dallas, or undoubtedly [name redacted] From what I can tell Brandy:Portrait of An Intelligence Officer - Chuck Render And Frank M Brandstetter,2007 Elderberry Press(OR)512 pages is significantly the better of the two books by a far margin, and if you want to know everything about the military Pentagon connections to the JFK Assassination and don't have this book, you will not know everything. from the back cover Chuck Render (left) was born in Southern Illinois where he joined the Air Force Reserve on his 17th birthday in January of 1955. He resigned as a Technical Sergeant flight engineer in 1965 and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant. He completed his baccalaureate and masters degrees at Murray State University in Kentucky and taught math, reading and music in Bluford, Illinois before completing his doctorate at the University of Illinois. He became Assistant Director of Administrative Studies at the University of Illinois Medical Center in Chicago, and then Director of Institutional Analysis with rank of Associate Professor at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. In 1985, he was recalled to active duty in the Pentagon, serving in the Office of the Chief of Air Force Reserve and then with the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs with duties in Operations and Plans. He retired from the military as a full "bird colonel" in 1995 after 40 years as an Air Force Reservist and moved to Clarksville, Tennessee. Frank Maryan "Brandy" Brandstetter (right) was born in 1912 in Bratislava and schooled by the Sisters of Charity and military officers throughout his childhood. In his mid-teens, he became a penniless immigrant on the streets of New York and began a life-long career, working his way up through the ranks in the hotel business. In January of 1941, he was sworn in as a U.S. Army Private, was promoted to Sergeant, but was plucked from the ranks, commissioned as a Second Lieutenant, and assigned to Army Intelligence. After jumping with the famed 506th "Band of Brothers" on D-Day, he served at General Matthew B. Ridgway's side throughout the war and afterward in the fledgling U.N. Organization. Brandy served his country for more than 50 years as an Army Reservist, on active duty and off, even at his own expense after his mandatory retirement age. As this book was being written, he was still residing in his fortress-like Casa Tranquilidad (House of Peace) on the mountainside in Acapulco, several hundred yards below the giant landmark cross and chapel he built. page 216 NOVEMBER 22, 1963 Brandy was instructing a seminar in Dallas, Texas on November 21, 1963 in connection with his Army Reserve duties. FBI Agent Vincent Drain, who was officially assigned to the Dallas field office on a permanent basis, called Brandy while he was there. Brandy had collaborated with Drain several years earlier when the two men had worked with the Fourth Army's disaster preparedness and response teams. Brandy spoke at length with Drain who was preparing for President Kennedy's tour of the city the following day. Drain had a big problem. Kennedy had rejected the idea of using the bubble-top vehicle he had the Air Force fly in, choosing instead to make the trip through the city in an open-top convertible if weather permitted. Both men knew the risks, but better judgement did not prevail. Brandy then flew back to Acapulco on the evening of November 21. Rains drenched Dallas during the early morning hours of November 22, 1963, but the skies became clear and sunny, so the protective bubble on the presidential limousine was removed. President Kennedy and his first lady, Jackie, drove with Governor John Connally and his wife to a planned luncheon at the Trade Mart. They would never arrive. Shots rang out as the limo drove down the on-ramp below the Texas School Book Depository, and John F. Kennedy became the fourth U.S. president to be assassinated while in office. The nation was suddenly in shock. page 157 By the fall of 1958, Brandy was able to leave Havana for two weeks of active duty training at the 4th Army Intelligence School in San Antonio, Texas where he assumed his role as Lieutenant Colonel. During this time he was able to travel to and from Dallas to spend some time as a loving husband to his ailing wife, even though her condition had not significantly changed. This change would serve as his only vacation from his duties in Cuba. Time was running out for Brandy's Army Reserve assignment. There were fewer and fewer billets available at the higher ranks. Those who were unable to secure an authorized position with the next higher rank would be forced to resign when and if they were promoted, or would be passed over for promotion until their mandatory time in rank was exceeded. Before returning to Cuba, Brandy sent his resume and a collection of sample reports and documents to Colonel Rose in the Office of Assistant Chief for Intelligence (ACSI) in the Pentagon and requested a new assignment. Rose was well acquainted with Brandy's past activities, so he called within a week and informed Brandy that his new assignment was right there in his own backyard. A telegraphic message had been sent to Colonel Sam Kail, the Military Attache at the American Embassy in Havana and Kail would be Brandy's point of contact. Anything that needed to be brought to Rose's attention could be forwarded through classified channels. page 172 Continuity in the Pentagon is a result of the Civil Service system that has some built-in stability guarantees. Mrs. Dorothe K. Matlack was one of those rocks of stability, and she was chief of the Exploitation Section (ACSI-CX). She had been there while the military officers had come and gone. She was already well acquainted with Brandy and the other intelligence officers who had been sending information from all over the world. Brandy's reports through Colonel Kail in Havana had come across her desk, and she had passed them on appropriately. ACSI BIG BROTHER Brandy was in high demand throughout the two work weeks following his arrival. Mrs. Matlack exploited Brandy to the best of her ability and scheduled debriefing sessions with representatives from the State Department, U.S. Naval Intelligence, the CIA, and others. Colonel Roth took pleasure in introducing Brandy at these closed meeting in the Pentagon and elsewhere in Washington D.C. Final Thoughts Render's mention of Dorothe K. Matlack as being in the ACSI-CX Exploitation Section is a real puzzle for myself. Below is a reference to the CIA's "Domestic Exploitation Section," but I am wondering if Render is simply mistaken or if the reference is a legitimate one that is privileged information. At any rate, as I love to remind anyone who will listen, the devil is in the details. 180-10147-10179 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=41228&relPageId=95 Other keywords Committee of 100 FGCR Former Graduates of Camp Ritchie Gonzalez, Adolfo Suarez see Suarez Gonzalez Adolfo Baroness Maria Louis Drag-Sas Hubicki Pozsony Nagyszeben, Transylvania Maryann Franciskus Otto Josephus Wladyslaw Brandstetter Drag-Sas Hubicki external references E-ring of the Pentagon [Death of A President, Manchester]

I was perusing this old thread when this jumped out at me. As I write this, I'm sitting in a Von's grocery store in my hometown of La Jolla, California only about three blocks from 7818 Fay Avenue. Note the two mistakes in the address in CIA cable: Fay, not Faye. And Avenue, not Street. No wonder they couldn't find Andres V. Cortes. I don't suppose this could be another example of a barium meal? This coming week I'll visit the La Jolla History room at the La Jolla Library and see if I can find Andres V. Cortes at 7818 Fay Avenue in a 1962-1963 La Jolla "Bluebook" phone book. I'll even go back to 1954 or 1955 if I have to, seein' as how the Ford he registered in his name was a '55. --Tommy Results from old La Jolla Bluebook telephone books: There was an Andres Cortes living at 7818 Fay Avenue, La Jolla, California in 1964-1965 and in 1966. No phone number given in the 1964-1965 book, just his address and name in the "Householder's Directory" in the back. He's not listed in the front "normal" part of the 1966 Bluebook either. It's only in the "Homeowner's Directory" in 1966. It was 454-5874. --Tommy PS-- The 1963 Bluebook says "Transient" for that address in the "Homeowner's Directory" part of the book. Nice work Tom.... I have my doubts as to whether what I am about to mention is a reference to the same person, But........ according to mary ferrell's chronologies there was an interesting incident involving someone named Cortez, even if the spelling is different, misspelt names in the Warren Commission documents is about as frequent as airline offers for frequent flyer miles...... March 1961 Dallas residents Mexican-American Cortez and Cuban Azcue are charged in Federal Court with illegal shipments from Shreveport, Marshall and Texarkana http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40390&relPageId=30 That was all the passage said...Did anyone else know [if Azcue is in fact Eusebio Azcue] that Azcue lived in Dallas, of course I will have egg all over my face if Azcue is not the same Azcue as the not so unknown Eusebio Azcue.....I tried searching various newspaper articles for some news story regarding this incident without much luck although I am by no means through searching...One thing I did discover was a news story from roughly the same period regarding persons in Texas charged with smuggling..... 12-21-1961 U. S. Export Ban Cites Tyler Man; The individual was Lorenzo L. Saunders [of Tyler] affiliated with Transcontinental S.A., the "shipments" referenced were of "large quantities of auto, truck and farm implements." And Transcontinental S.A. IS mentioned in JFK Assassination documents..... I believe this aspect of the pre-assassination intrigues has to do with the CIA's efforts and Operation Mongoose attempts to make sure any "shipments" to Cuba were of material which was dangerous to use, or even better inoperable. Of course on another level someone say like Jack Ruby's connection to selling jeeps to Cuba was strictly a profit oriented venture... Just so this post isn't considered minutae, I recently discovered that [whether it is a real name or some generic type of phrase....the Mexico City Mystery man appears to have been referred to by name.... Courtesy of Joe Backes Document # 104-10015-10428 is a two page memorandum from Winston M. Scott to Clark D. Anderson, Legal Attache. It is date 11/27/63. I think this is a duplicate but I can't find it. Anyway, Scott is informing Anderson of all of the telephone intercepts referred to as "conversations from technical operations of this office". These include a telephone calls starting on September 27, 1963 to October 3, 1963. "a. A telephone call to the Soviet embassy made at 1037 hours on 27 September 1963 by a man outside (Hombre Fuera-"HF" to an Hombre Dentro-"HD"). The man outside said he needed "unas visas" to go to Odessa. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=53292&relPageId=5

Would they be willing to release a transcript? I second Salandria. All references to LeMay have been deleted from the Johnson version. His aide wanted to reach him badly and immediately, and was trying to interrupt Air Force One transmissions to do so.(see below for more on LeMay). "Colonel Dorman, GeneralLeMay's aide. General LeMay is in a C140. Last three numbers are 497, SAMC140. His code name is Grandson. And I want to talk to him." Any delay, he said, "would be too late." LeMay's precise location at the time of the assassination and after have been a subject of open speculation. Another classic example of whats wrong with this picture....What should have been evidence in the government's possession or at least in a Presidential Library is discovered laying around somewhere, [in this case maybe that turned out to be a good thing] replete with code names never heard of before. The only positive in all of this is, as the media attention to it shows, is that the American public smells a rat, when there is one. The JFK Assassination continues to be almost 50 years later, "the story they wish would go away."

Thanks Tom, It looks just like what the Doctor ordered...Greatly appreciated.....

Here is what I consider the most significant Dallas Rambler, I have ever encountered [not including] the Rambler which pulled up in front of the TSBD at approximately 12:40 PM C.D.T with "Oswald" climbing in. It is wise to remember that this pivotal issue is not confirmed just "according to Roger Craig,"but there were people watching television on the West Coast who actually saw this happening in real time, or on replayed network footage the weekend of the assassination which apparently was part of a live feed that is somewhere in the CBS archives, if it is still in existence.... At any rate everything below should be self explanatory.......these people living at 803 E. Monica Drive from what I recall entered the United States from Cuba at Florida and had been employed as crop dusters in Cuba...... You can call the post below "the evolution of a redacted document." In the Warren Commission documents Raul Castro Baile's name was always redacted. It wasn't until the Church Committee era that the redacted version which included his name and the Warren Commission document unredacted was seen as is.... CD 913....pages 159-163 Sra. Georgina Santiago 803 E. Monica Drive Garland, Texas, 75040 Mrs Raul Castro Baile 803 E. Monica Drive Garland, Texas, 75040 Mr. Juan Quintana Maya 803 E. Monica Drive Garland, Texas 75040 one letter to Senor Juan fr co at the Monica Drive address is from Sr. Ma del Carmen, Torres, Ave 33, #12225 Morrisons, Habana, Cuba http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11309&relPageId=175 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11309&relPageId=177 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11309&relPageId=174 Dallas T-2 Informed that Manuel Rodriguez [Orcaberro] in the SNFE representative in the Dallas area and is anti-Castro and anti-Cuban The Rambler was owned by Raul Castro. (See Wallace Heitman’s interviews with Castro and Quintera.) CD 1085 Kan The Kennedy Klan appx. page 214, [ ] advised on April 10, 1964 that the families of and resided at, together. He advised one of these persons owned a late model Rambler automobile which was frequently parked in front of this residence. Shortly prior to the assassination of President Kennedy, source advised there was a bumper sticker on the front bumper of this Rambler which bore the legend Kan The Kennedy Klan, and the first word had been changed to “Kill” On April 9, 1964 SA Wallace R Heitman observed parked on the street........license number PD-4976* Freehand lettering had been used to change this word late model Rambler was owned by _______ of Garland Texas. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=214 NO TITLE pg 8 FBI - HSCA Subject File: Church Committee 2651 Province Street Dallas Texas advised on April 15 1964 the late model Rambler which was frequently seen parked at the residence of 806 E Monica Street Garland Texas was owned by RAUL CASTRO BAILE He said RIF#: 124-10288-10190 (04/29/64) FBI#: CR 105-96777-9 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=138238&relPageId=8 The Man Who Knew Too Much pg 372, by Russell, Dick (1992) “Here I go back to sources,” [Alonzo] Hudkins said “A very good source, still is. He’s deep cover, still active. There was a meeting in Mexico, sometime in the summer of ‘63. There were no American’s present other than Oswald and one CIA man, from what I’ve been told. There were also a couple of girls there. One posed as a prostitute. Maria del Carmen was not the main one but she was there! Maria del Carmen was the young Mexican Treasury Department employee whom Nagell reluctantly indicated was a contact of his with Cuban intelligence— and whom the CIA’s Barney Hidalgo said posed as a prostitute when they worked together in Mexico on a project [see Chapter Ten] New Orleans attorney Dean Andrews also said that Oswald had been “befriended by a CIA whore in Mexico City.” All the self proclaimed experts may laugh me to scorn but in another thread here on the Forum, the Rambler which left the Texas School Book Depository was later discovered next to a washateria in Oak Cliff, i e Pennington] but the trial of what happened to that Rambler after the assassination was never satisfactorily resolved in my mind. Nowhere did I ever see the word "impounded as evidence by the Dallas Police Department" in the context of that particular vehicle.....if you know what I mean.... As much as I may be wrong about where that car wound up [obviously the campus of the University of Texas years later, would be a good guess,] but I keep thinking about Jack Lawrence the one who ran into the Lincoln dealership and was throwing up, literally, he seems like an interesting person, to say the least...what kind of car did he really leave Dallas in?

I didn't want to start a thread with Forum Staff request for assistance; I hope that I am not violating any protocol, by posting this here. The problem I need help with has to do with my inability to upload pdf files to the Forum where they can be viewed by members of the Forum, instead of what my current situation is, which is the viewer of the post has to download the pdf file and read it offline. I have had other problems which Evan Burton has graciously helped me with, but I have pretty much been able to resolve those on my own. I use MAC OS X 10.4 with the Mozilla Firefox browser, and am pretty much stuck with that operating system although I can use different browsers such as Safari..... I have cleared all the uploaded files in my Forum folder, but that doesen't seem to change anything. When I first joined the forum circa 2005, I had a Windows System with Internet Explorer, back then I don't believe I had this problem... For that reason I am of the belief that the fact that I use Mac has something to do with the problem, and, obviously if no-one can help me, that is obviously OK. The reason it is kind of a big deal is that since I can't post the article's/pdf's directly if I want those reading my posts to be able to see what I am seeing, I transcribe the entire article.. I looked into using the Forum "download manager" but don't seem to be able to comprehend what that is all about Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Orleans Parish Grand Jury Testimony of Harold Weisberg, 28 Apr 1967 http://www.maryferre...10&relPageId=59 http://www.maryferre...10&relPageId=61 SUMMARY FOLDER OF OS/SAG INVESTIGATIVE FILES http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1154905 THE CASE AGAINST LYNDON B. JOHNSON IN THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT K http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1026638 Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 6, Issue 1 Current Section: A Rough Guide to Oswald Lookalikes (Part IV), by Mark Bridger http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=389123 During World War II, Castorr had been assigned to General Joseph Stilwell commander of the China-Burma-India theater. He was involved in public relations in the Army. Well, Joachim Joesten may have been a former Communist, but he was spot on about Colonel Castorr's association with the National Federation of Independent Business its true, its true....... L. Robert Castorr Association Executive L. Robert Castorr, 92, a retired executive with a number of business groups and a retired colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve, died April 7 after a heart attack at National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda. Mr. Castorr, a resident of Bethesda, was born in Detroit and enlisted in the Army Reserve at age 18 in 1930. He served in the Civilian Conservation Corps for a year, then after further military training and education moved to active duty in 1940. During World War II, he served in North Africa and in the Burma campaign as an infantry combat commander. After the war ended, he briefly served as chief of staff and spokesman for Gen. George C. Marshall at the Pentagon. He left active duty in 1947 but stayed in the reserves until 1973. Mr. Castorr worked as a field manager for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and as national field manager and assistant to the president for the National Federation of Independent Business, handling legislation and public relations, through the 1960s. He later moved to the Small Business Administration, where he was assistant to its president and oversaw its program for retired executives. In later years, he worked for himself as an international trade consultant. Mr. Castorr was an official with the World Conference of Mayors during the 1980s. He served as an officer with the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, the Knights of Malta, and was a member of the Order of St. Stanislas, a philanthropic organization. His first two marriages, to Dorothy Castorr and Gertrude A. Castorr, ended in divorce. Survivors include his wife of 30 years, Dorothy Vasco Castorr of Bethesda; two sons from his second marriage, William Castorr of Battle Creek, Mich., and John Castorr of Dallas; two brothers; five grandchildren; and seven great-grandchildren. end Washington Post, The (DC) - April 10, 2005 Deceased Name: CASTORR , L. ROBERT . On Thursday, April 7, 2005 of Bethesda, MD. He is survived by his wife, Dorothy Vasco Castorr; his sons, William and John Castorr; his brothers, Albert Castorr and Larry Castle; five grand-children and seven great-grandchildren. Predeceased by his mother, father, brother, Arthur Castorri and son, Allan Castorr. Friends may call at the MURPHY FUNERAL HOME OF ARLINGTON, 4510 Wilson Blvd., 2 to 4 and 6 to 8 p.m., Tuesday, April 12. Funeral service and interment with Full Military Honors will be held at a later date at Arlington National Cemetery. He received a Presidential Citation from President Julius Sokolnieke of Poland, appointing him Brigidier General. In lieu of flowers and in keeping with the General's desires, memorial contributions may be made to the National Alzheimer's Association or the charity of your choice. Washington Post, The (DC) Date: April 10, 2005 Record Number: 061331050409 Copyright © 2005 The Washington Post Commission Document 205 - FBI Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswald pg 640 Mrs. CONNELL, a member of Cuban Catholic Relief, Conell voiced the opinion that EDWIN A WALKER and Colonel (FNU) CASTER a close acquaintance of WALKER have been trying to arouse the feelings of the Cuban refugees in Dallas against the KENNEDY administration She based this...... (UNDATED) So stirring up dissension amongst the Cuban exiles in Dallas in 1963 [see WC Interview with Mrs C.L. Connell] equates with Full Military Honors, eh. Guess you would have had to have been there......

I think what you mean to say is that all of the identifiable fingerprints they found were identified. Because unidentifiable fingerprints WERE found on the boxes. ".....prints were developed which were considered as not identifiable, i.e., the quality of the print was too fragmentary to be of value for identification purposes......"( Report, pg. 249 ) There is no evidence that an identifiable fingerprint which could not be identified was found on any of the boxes. At least I haven't seen any. But FWIW, I've seen the "Wallace" print and the print from his arrest card and compared them and IMO, if that print actually came from the sixth floor, it's not Wallace's. The only identifiable print that they found and could not identify was on Box "B" and it was a PALMPRINT, not a fingerprint. "One identifiable palmprint was not identified." ( ibid. ) "One palmprint on Box B was unidentified." ( Report, pg. 566 ) John, there's nothing wrong with being skeptical about "explosive new evidence" that comes to the forefront of this case. My own experience tells me that when one of these new revelations becomes public and dies out quickly, there's probably not much to it. That's the reason why you don't see people talking about it much. Also, I'm leery of those who come forward to confess "I did it", because there is no statute of limitations on murder and I find it diffcult to believe that anyone with substantial proof of their own guilt would risk the death penalty. There was, at one time as Gil Jesus points out an unidentified fingerprint, I've read Blood Money and Power, but I am like anyone else who isn't an insider to the fingerprint issue re Mac Wallace, and have never read anything that could be proven in a court of law that is conclusive, my only reason for posting on this thread is to say that there is a document or perhaps in a book that stated the unidentified print actually belonged to Will Fritz or Chief Curry, which I don't believe for a minute. I am sure someone knows the truth, but they aren't on our side. Although that is strictly an opinion.

I've just read some of it near the end, and it looks like it's worthy of a bump. --Tommy Yea, its not bad, a summary of much of the un-investigated leads in the assassination and its proper context. BK I swear there is such a thing as synchronicity, I was researching some Dallas related stuff yesterday, and there was a reference to something in it, [Coppens book] so I downloaded it...... From what I can tell there is some info in the book unavailable elsewhere, Example: The section on Clay Shaw, mentions Shaw's claim to OSS service and his link to Winston Churchill, "Shaw besides stating that he had been in the OSS, acting as a liason to Winston Churchill......." Coppens went on to write that Clay Shaw had been introduced to Churchill by Sir Michael Duff," that was a new one on me.....

After the Bay of Pigs, the Dept. of Defense was tasked with any and all similar para-military operations, and the CIA reverted to its covert - plausibly deniable routines - and all Bay of Pigs veterans who wanted to were brought into the regular US Army and trained at Ft. Benning, which many of them did, believing that they would get a chance to fight in Cuba. Since the thread title is, "Is Navy Intelligence more closely related to [the] JFK Assassination than other MI" You can put me down for a big fat qualified yes..... The latest distorted statement proven to not be true, by the other side is the HSCA Final Report, ONI records regarding the Kennedy assassination were destroyed or words to that effect. Now we find out that Terry Pike, had located those "unable to locate" ONI records and in the spirit of openness in government, was put through a living hell, it seems. What a shock...... As with everything else in the true story of the who, when, how and why of the JFK assassination, The devil is in the details, and the payoff for researchers, is those who are willing to do the grunt work, get to know all those dark corners intimately, while everyone else is stuck on stupid or has to have someone tell them what happened........

I just realized this had already been established; I don't have Pictures of The Pain heres a reference http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=226563 Robert, Please tell me: Which one of the 500-plus photos listed on the Mary Ferrell document you posted is it? Thanks! --Odd Tommy It is hard to determine how much can be determined about what, if any possible relationship would exist regarding a man with a rifle on top of a building. Al I know is that until Richard Trask published Pictures of The Pain, I never knew the name of this building. And, in the late 1960's early 1970's, all JFK researchers had to go on, was a photo taken on Stemmons Freeway with an image so blurred of the name of the building, that ID'ing the building was the equivalent of explaining E=Mc2..... Here is the salient point New York Times, 6/26/2007, p7, CORELLI--Ronald, 78, of Katonah on June 24, 2007. Formerly of Chappaqua. He was the owner and President of Corham Artificial Flower Company in White Plains. He was the loving husband of Angela and loving father to Randall, Elise, John, Jeanne, Christopher and Michael. Adored grandfather of 22. Visiting at Beecher Funeral Home, Inc. 418 Bedford Road, Pleasantville, Wednesday 24PM and 7-9PM. Mass of Christian Burial Thursday 10AM at St. Patrick's R.C. Church in Bedford. Burial at Gate of Heaven Cemetery. In lieu of flowers, donations to Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, Griffin Road, P.O. Box 196, Elmhurst, PA 18416. So, you basically have to ask yourself a question. If you owned or managed a building, and a rifleman made his way to the top of it, and afterwards left the roof the same day that POTUS came to town, and departed in a coffin, would you know about it?

.....The Limo Did STOP Twice on Kennedy's order. From ''Death of a Pesident''..Manchester..pages; 135 and 6... The Motorcade made two stops.....''twice the motorcade halted at Kennedy's order.At Lemmon and Lomo Alto Drive a line of very small children stood behind a placard ''Mr.President , Please stop and shake our hands ''........Let's stop here Bill''Kennedy called to Greer.He stepped into the street and was nearly swept off his feet by a surge of shrieking youths.The scene was affectionally watched by a loyal couple named Gaudet. Toward the end of it, Mrs.Gaudet had an unsettling recollection; that morning she had heard a local radio program devoted to details of the assassination of the Lincoln assassination. and now she told her husband about it, saying ''President Kennedy ought to be awarded the Purple Heart just for coming to Dallas''.Kellerman and his men gently broke up the demonstration of children.So far the city had seemed harmless enough to them. In the lead car Lawson murmured a word of recommendation to Chief Curry Lawson had suggested that the underpasses be cleared of everyone except uniformed policemen, and the first indicated that his advice had been followed. Everything indeed appeared to be on schedule ............When the resident dismounted the second time , the agents . though vigilant, avoided a show of force. He wanted to greet a group of nuns. He was always alert for a glimpse of sisters, and it was a familiar scene. Only a tactless bodyguard would have intruded upon it. Great stuff as always, Bernice! Bernice, did Manchester, or another source, ever mention the location along the motorcade route of the second stop (the one where JFK greeted the nuns)? Thanks, Mike Hi Mike, your welcome to Manchester's info, as always he wrote of so many details now simply, put aside, no only what i posted did he comment on, nothing further, sorry, if i come across anything pertaining to such i will post, now a bit further on the V.P. for GiL AND ALL, FWIW... p134 TDOAP......Manchester........The Vice President's convertible ..Two and a half car lengths separated it from Half Back, ( SS Queen Mary) to indicate that the appearance of the Vice President was a separate event . Ralph Yarborough who loved parades ,was under the distinction that Lyndon Johynson wasn't enjoying the distinction. The Senator , in the left rear . was waving jubiliantly , Johnson stared glumly ahead......... all so far..best b post on Lancer 2008 '' Subject: Boy wrestled grnd motorcade Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:15:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C88EDE.EC357770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C88EDE.EC357770 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C88EDE.EC357770" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C88EDE.EC357770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link = attachments: Shortcut to: >Jones/ Shaw: "Our 1965 investigation lead us to believe >Robertson was in Dallas but was posing as a POSTAL INSPECTOR, >but it was reported to us that he had left Dallas. We also >learned from newsmen that something unusual did happen on >Harwood shortly before the turn to Main Street. No >one wanted credit for this, but we were told by reliable >newsmen that a man jumped in front of Kennedy's car on Harwood >shouting, "Stop, I must tell you." The man, according to ther >report, was promptly wresteled to the ground and hustled >away."=20 A November 25, 1963 Toronto Star article on my website about the boy. As = far as I know, it's the only paper in the whole world that reported the = story. Dallas Morning News photographer Joe Lair reported the story to = the author of this article, Rae Corelli I talked with a few years ago. http://www.geocities...Boy_chased.html An 2001 email from Gary Mack with more explanations: Denis - From an unpublished account by Laird a few weeks after the=20 assassination: He was at the sw corner of Main & Harwood with UPI photographer Daryll Heikes (the Museum has Heikes' original negatives.) They ran along=20 with the limo but "were unable to keep pace." About three blocks from there, he heard "someone to my right, shouting = "SLOW DOWN, WAIT, STOP! It distracted me, causing me to run into the = rear of a motorcycle." He wrote that an SS agent on LBJ's car "dismounted and shove a young=20 man head first to the pavement." After the motorcade passed, he "was = unable to locate the person I'd seen dumped so forceably." That's all he wrote, but now we know where it happened. Youngblood was = the only SS man in LBJ's car, but there were three other SS men in the = car behind. One of them must have been the one who tackled the guy. Sorry, I can't send you what Laird wrote, but it will probably be=20 published soon, and I'll let you know when it happens. Gary <BR><BR><BR>newspaper article from dennis's .......http://jfkassassinationfiles.com/boy_chased<BR> http://jfkassassinat....com/boy_chased This may be the same boy being described, albeit with some misdirection about the true circumstances of what was actually taking place WC CD 3 page 29 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10404&relPageId=34 On one occasion a teenage boy came out from the crowd slightly to the right and rear of the followup car, running at the President's car at a trot with an object in his hands, which appeared to be a camera. Ready jumped off the running board, chased the boy briefly and gave him a light push back into the crowd. Bernice that's a pretty fascinating article you provided......Mae Corelli, huh.

I just realized this had already been established; I don't have Pictures of The Pain heres a reference http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=226563

Reference has been made numerous time over the years to the gunman who is seen in one of the series of photographs taken as the motorcade, after entering Stemmon's Freeway has a car with photographers taking photos of the Kennedy limo, with a building in the background, in which a man with a rifle is standing on top of a building on the opposite side of Stemmon's Freeway. For years the only photograph I was aware of was in one of Penn Jones Forgive My Grief books. Then I discovered that Robert Groden has what I am almost certain is the same photograph, where the sign on the building is not blurred. If I am correct, the image in The Killing Of A President on page 45, is the same building as the blurred image in Penn Jones book, the sign states Corham. If, I am correct this building is the Corham Artificial Flower Co., 1645 Stemmons Freeway. Telephone RI1-1073.... This has not been established beyond a shadow of a doubt, but ID'ing a building with an unidentified man with a rifle is still very important.