Robert Howard

I published a book on Adolf Hitler in 1986. It sold over 10,000 copies before it went out of print. I decided to provide the online version free of charge. It has been available since 1997 and is currently getting over 100,000 visitors a month. (Although it is free to access it more than pays for itself by the advertising that appears on the site. An e-book version of the book will be published later this year. The same goes for the other books that I wrote before 1997. I know that most historians are suffering because their publishers are unwilling to bring out new editions of their books (the second-hand books section of Amazon have destroyed this market). They are also finding it difficult to find publishers of books. The main reason for this is that because so many books are sold via Amazon (who demand very high discounts from publishers), they need to sell around 15,000 copies of a new book to go into profit. This is now becoming much more difficult. I am afraid the economics of book publishing means that we are seeing the opening stages of the death of the book. I think John Simkin has a point, about the death of the book, the technology is leapfrogging ahead of the cultural capacity to be fully integrated to the advances in a manner that would be a true means of mass media the way youtube was when it first became popular...Then there is the ever present historical dynamic of the masses troding the path of least resistance, Example in the 1950's there was a good segment of the American population that did not have the pervasive cynicism about politics enough to feel like voting was a "waste of time," so issues were paramount [not that they aren't now] and knowledge was paramount. Now there is such a segmentation of various viewpoints about politics that there is a "People magazine" mentality where determining who should be President, actually seems like people think it is important "if he looks like a nice man." But back to the book topic recently the Wall Street Journal did a story about persons trying to get published who were going to e-books selling for a penny or a nickel or some ridiculous amount so that a grass-roots interest in their work would eventually lead to being re-published after being signed up by a major publisher, which I believe is actually pretty pathetic, in the big picture.... My own view is that the decline of America began, in a general sense when the corporations began to manipulate their legal status as a "person" into a wrecking ball against the rights of the person. That dynamic has unleashed many of the more Orwellian aspects of mass culture that America is now experiencing, Why was is that the Fabian Socialists saw all of this coming 100 years ago.....?

I don't believe we will ever get the full story of the assassination unless the identities of the three persons in this frame in the crowd shots of the shooting aftermath are determined http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=33&pos=8 They are directly behind the African-American older man [in a fedora hat] who has just stepped onto Elm street going towards the general area of the knoll [also in a fedora]. In another sequence of photos they are in the parking lot of the TSBD conversing and if I am not mistaken, are around the Rambler that is parked there that is among the more interesting post-assassination activities.....

So there's four Jack Martins - The Jack Martin who dropped the dime on Bannister and Ferrie The John Martin who was wanted by the Dallas Secret Service and sent SAICNO John Rice on wild goose chase The John Martin who filmed the motorcade and works for the Post Office The Jack Martin who filmed Walker and Oswald in New Orleans from Minn. Then there's also Juan Martin, the Urguan gun dealer who was dealing with the Dallas Cubans and knew Odios, John Martino of Cuban casino and jail fame who also knew Odios, and the "Mister Martin" who repeatedly called the Carousel looking for Ruby on Thursday night. It appears we wouldn't have even known about the Jack Martin from Minn. if Harold Weisberg didn't ask for his film. I'm still interested in the Jack Martin who filmed Walker and Oswald before the assassination, as that seems to be too much of a coincidence for me. Bill, I don't expect you can get to your Jack Martin, "film" from here, or from anywhere. It would be too coincidental for there to be another besides the one from St. Paul, MN, covered in my last post. What do you have to go on besides this, from Martin Shackelford? Can anyone post relevant frames or film clips reliably attributed to a source matching Shackelford's narrative? MARTIN, CRAWFORD C. Sources: CE 1539; CD 84, pp. 139-141 MARTIN, DELBERT LEE Sources: CD 7, p. 664 Mary's Comments: Representative for Denison Mattress Co., 101 W. Owings St., Denison, TX. Display room in Minor Mart Bldg., 2000 Stemmons, Dallas, TX. MARTIN, DENNIS PATRICK Sources: CE 2280; CD 837; CD 856, p. 12A Mary's Comments: Companion of Marguerita Vea Riegler. In San Francisco on 4/20/64. MARTIN, S. DOUGLAS Sources: Who's Who in CIA, Mader, p. 333 Mary's Comments: DOB: 12/6/26 MARTIN, E. B. Sources: "ONI", pp. 3, 14 Mary's Comments: Officer in Charge, District Intelligence Office, Eighth Naval District. Aug 17, 1962, memo to Dir of Naval Intelligence re LHO and (a) DIO 8ND con ltr ser 053 of 11 Jan 1961 to FBI, Dallas, and Sept. 17, 1962, memo to Director of Naval Intelligence re LHO and (a) DIO 8ND conf ltr ser 053 of 11 Jan 1961 to FBI. "Route to 921E." MARTIN, JOHN ----- Sources: WC Vol 22, p. 345 Mary's Comments: President of Iron and Junk Handlers Union. On Jan 5, 1940, he shot and killed Leon Cook. After the murder, Martin and his 35-yr-old secretary, Mrs. Gladys Walsh, 409 Walnut, Hindsdale, IL., disappeared. Martin was later freed of murder charge. MARTIN, JACK S. (ALIAS OF EDWARD STEWARD SUGGS) Sources: CD 75, pp. 217-220, 301, 309-311; CD 205, p. 586; CIA 1229-514, p. 7; CIA 1357-506; CIA 1359-503; CIA 1430-492Y, p. 2; CIA 1431-492-Z; CIA 1459-492-BB Mary's Comments: See Edward S. Suggs. Reported information re David Ferrie to Federal Aviation Agency, Washington. MARTIN, JACK W. Sources: CD 87 SS 450, pp. 1-2; CD 87 SS 451, pp. 1-2 Mary's Comments: A suspect in assassination PRIOR to arrest of LHO on 11/22/63. Son of Ben and Thelma Martin, Goldonna, LA. On 11/22/63: white/male, 25-30, 5' 6", 150 lbs., dark eyes, dark hair, olive complexion, stocky. He has wanted to be a preacher. Belonged to a religious cult. Had been in Texas recently. Secret Service checked on him at Goldonna, LA, and at Natchitoches, LA, 11/22/63 because of remarks he made in Dallas following assassination. Secret Service Agent John W. Rice put out APB on Martin. MARTIN, JOSEPH JAMES Sources: CIA 1313-1036-C; CIA Box 2, Folder 16, Doc 02689 (MMF 314); CIA 1315-1050; CIA Box 2, Folder 16 (MMF 313); CIA 1335-1048; CIA Box 2, Folder 16, Doc 02854 (MMF 315-318) Mary's Comments: #43847. DOB: April 20, 1913. POB: Cleveland, Ohio. Retired from CIA June 30, 1958. CIA interested in his present location. MARTIN, JOHN G. Sources: CE 1387; CD 183, pp. 45-47 END MARTIN, JOHN JR. Sources: CD 7, p. 14; CD 205, p. 59; CD 709; CD 897, pp. 50-53; CD 1066, pp. 6-7,9 Mary's Comments: DOB: 9/21/05. POB: Two Harbors, Minnesota. Wife: Ella M. Superintendent of safety, Room 517, U.S. Post Office Terminal Annex, 207 S. Houston St., Dallas. Witnessed assassination. Took 8 mm color movies of motorcade (25 feet of film). Film was immediately sent to Life Magazine in undeveloped condition. Thought he saw LHO get in cab. From Dealey Plaza DB John J Martin OCCUPATION : Superintendent of Safety, U.S. Post Office LOCATION : North End of Reflecting Pool SOURCE OF SHOTS : Book Depository NUMBER OF SHOTS : 3 FBI INTERVIEW: March 31, 1964. CD897 MARTIN, MARY (AKA MARY MARLIN) Sources: WC Vol 19, p. 75; WC Vol 22, p. 521; WC Vol 25, p. 353, CE 2375; CD 106, p. 64 Mary's Comments: Name and number in Jack Ruby's old memo book. She saw Jack Ruby at Bryan and Ervay on Nov 15th. Employed by Praetorian Insurance Company. MARTIN, MURPHY ----- Sources: WC Vol 15, p. 348; Dallas Morning News, Sun Aug 4, 1985, p. 34-A Mary's Comments: WFAA announcer in 1959. With ABC in 1963. Dated Carousel Club dancer. (In the Dallas Morning News, Wednesday, April 29, 1998, p. 32-A, there is an obituary for Murphy Martin, born December 12, 1910, died April 27, 1998, at age 87. Graveside services and interment Thursday, April 30, 1998, at Grove Hill Memorial Park with Rev. Jim Dockens officiating. MARTIN, WILFORD JAMES (JIM) Sources: WC Vol 25, p. 510; CE 2003, p. 395; CE 2415; CE 3015; CE 3024; CD 1149, pp. 5, 7-8, 10; CD 1215; Rush to Judgment, Lane, 282-284; Forgive My Grief I, Jones, 2-5, 9-10 Mary's Comments: Attorney at 706 Main Street, Dallas, TX. Friend of George Senator. MARTIN, JOHN B. (JUAN) Sources: WC Vol 11, pp. 375, 380; WC Vol 14, p. 420; WC Vol 26, pp. 402, 405, 738, 837, 839; CE 3108; CD 205, pp. 642, 645; CD 854; Whitewash II, Weisberg, 113-115 Mary's Comments: Friend of Sylvia Odio. Operated a Dallas washateria. Anti-Castro gun-runner. Mrs. C. L. Connell met him with Odio "several months ago" (11/29/63). From Uruguay. MARTIN, ROLAND J. Sources: WC Vol 22, pp. 208-209 Mary's Comments: Wife: Rose. Proprietor of restaurant on Tchoupitoulas where Oswald ate lunch while working for Reily Coffee Co. LHO cashed 11 checks in his restaurant. SUGGS, AUBREY F. Sources: Arch P. Kimbrough interview Mary's Comments: Was standing, with Worrell, on west curb of Houston, 25' north of Main. Witnessed assassination. (He worked for Kimbrough) END I will be the first to point out that Mary Ferrell's DB as is the Pope is not infallible, [except in matters involving faith and morals, lol] But all kidding aside, without sounding pretentious, [hopefully] this post illustrates, I believe, that there are two roads one can take here, just stick to research involving Jack Martin, or, try to dig into the genealogy of the Martin's as well. I have often made the case that the JFK research community over the decades has made a mistake in not sorting thru the genealogical aspects of assassination related persons; perhaps nothing better illustrates this point better than this very topic. Why? Well, as you can see all of these persons are fairly important persons in their own relationship to the assassination story, if even one was related to another you have, ostensibly helped unravel part of the deeper waters of how all of this worked out....I think E.B. Martin and Aubrey Suggs both could be potentially very compelling in the genealogy department, hopefully for obvious reasons.... I would also remind readers that Joan Mellen caught a lot of flak over confusing a John and Jack Martin, or, something to that effect. And I am sure Gary Mack probably knows a lot about who was who in that regard. Robert

I have listed what I consider some of the more compelling Foundations....when William Dalzell testified before the New Orleans Grand Jury he was asked about the Cordell Hull Foundation, Alton Oschner was the President and is listed on the letterhead of the Information Council of the America's, which was instrumental in the orchestration of the infamous Oswald interview in New Orleans before the assassination. More http://www.cordellhull.org/english/About_Us/Biography.asp FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 160 page 67 https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=58991 From Dirty Business page 300...Wright Patman steered clear of the Texas Foundations....and failed to identify the Moody Foundation as the maverick trust......He also mentions the Bright Star Foundation of Dallas Texas, [unsure, but doubt this foundation is related to the Bright Star Foundation founded by George H. W. Bush after death of Robin from leukemia, the latter sounds pretty innocuous to me] page 303,....Hobby Foundation Brown Foundation....among the recipients of their oblations were the American Friends of the Middle East, an anti-Zionist, pro-Arab foundation and the Cuban Freedom Committee, sponsor of Free Cuba Radio and, according to Robert G. Sherill, writing in the Nation, "the most belligerent anti-Castro radio series broadcast out of this country, whose advisory board includes several galloping right-wingers." page 306,.....J Howard Pew of Sun Oil, who controls the Pew Memorial Trust, the nation's fifth-largest foundation was an avid supporter of the far-out Far Right. Among his favorite charities were the intercollegiate Studies Institute of Philadelphia, the Christian Freedoms Foundation, Dr. [Fred] Schwartz's Christian Anti-Communist Crusade, the Foundation for Economic Education and the American Economic Foundation. When Robert Kennedy was assassinated McGeorge Bundy, according to Demaris, Bundy gave eight aides to Robert Kennedy Ford Foundation Study Grants.... other key pages 309, 312 Albert Parvin Foundation, Meyer Lansky....murder of Gus Greenbaum....and Dominican Republic January 1963 Abe Fortas I haven't even come close to getting through the good stuff, from Demaris......

Anyone interested in the world of foundations, would be really missing the boat if they did not intimately familiarize themselves with Chapter 4 of Ovid Demaris, book Dirty Business - The Corporate-Political Money-Power Game; the Chapter is entitled The Charity Game. For someone like Bill, who rightly has a keen appreciation for this oft overlooked aspect of intelligence related money trails, I promise when you read it the pages will practically leap off the paper. Demaris isn't someone I really place a great deal of stock in JFK assassination matters per se, [just my opinion], but he really did his homework on that one..... Robert

I believe the Dulles quote was from the original post on this thread by Lee Forman, correct me if I am wrong. I don't like to speak in riddles, but I do like to make points without being too wordy, unless I believe it is very important. Suffice to say there were two areas of the JFK assassination that recieved a lot of attention decades earlier the rather problematic "The Texas Connection" and Mae Brussell's article about the Nazi Connection's to the JFK assassination. Both are areas that still require a lot of dissecting, but are in an urgent need of updating, more accurately, I might say regarding the former. One of the new information sources, to a degree, are some of the more mainstream publications, that while they do not tell-all, nonetheless give you a look at some of the more controversial episodes of 20th Century history, that are a heck of a lot detailed than your favorite Gerald Posner book....lol Case in point: National Geographic recently aired a special regarding the post war escapades of Josef Mengele, and a possible connection to the twins phenomena in a strange little village in Latin America, by the name of Cândido Godói. See "Nazi Twins" a Myth: Mengele Not Behind Brazil Boom? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091125-nazi-twins-brazil-mengele.html One of the really interesting areas of this show, was the interview of Rafi Eitan, who was the key Mossad operative in the capture of Adolf Eichmann...... For More The Day The Angel of Death Got Away http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2008/09/the-day-the-ang/ The Cândido Godói story is not really new, there are, or were clips of it on youtube, p[lus the Huntington Post carried the story a couple of years ago....... I had some funny moments when the accounts of persons allegedly ID'ing Mengele in the area where summarily dismissed but nevertheless, my point is not trying to allege anything new about all of this but to mention some things not exactly well known..... CABLE:DRAGOMIR INTERVIEWED 19 AUGUST, GAVE FOLLOWING STORY pg 1 HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 44: HTLINGUAL, Oswald) IDENTIFICATION FORM AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY RECORD NUMBER RECORD SERIES AGENCY FILE NUMBER CIA 104-10209-10174 JFK 80T01357A DOCUMENT INFORMATION CIA BERCHTESGARDEN DIRECTOR CABLE:DRAGOMIR INTERVIEWED RIF#: 104-10209-10174 (08/20/64) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=50112 Then there is the whole Germanic theme running through the assassination....Allen Dulles being contacted by the July 1944 Hitler coup d'etat conspirators, the whole issue of the JCOS being inspired by said plot to assassinate Castro, the fact that Maxwell Taylor was meeting with West German intel, practically the moment JFK was assassinated. Critchfield being the MAN who ran the whole assimilation of the Gehlen org into a practical subsection of the CIA [along with Richard Helms, and others......the Adenauer postwar government, and last but not least the whole Anton Ehrdinger affair, and General Walker's connection to the newspaper in Germany..... FOREIGN SERVICE LIST JANUARY 1, 1948 DEPARTMENT OF STATE Publication 3076 Released April 1948 Vernet L. Gresham, vice consul FSO-5 FSS-8 Henry L. Pitts, Jr., second secretary; ...... Joseph A. Michela, military attache Lt. Vladimir L. Rychly, attache for naval http://www.archive.org/stream/foreignserviceli1948unit/foreignserviceli1948unit_djvu.txt Frau Mattheus they rest peacefully at WaldfriedhofGrünwald (Grünwald Forest Cemetery) Birth: Jan. 26, 1896 Death: Jun. 1, 1960 Sister of Adolph Hitler. On December 1, 1952, she moved to a two-room flat near Berchtesgaden, Hitler's mountaintop retreat on the German-Austrian border, where she lived in seclusion under the last name of Wolff until her death on June 1, 1960. Note: Her grave marker was removed in June, 2005 and someone else was buried in this plot, where Paula had been buried for 45 years. (bio by: HistoryBuff) Burial: Bergfriedhof * Berchtesgaden Bavaria (Bayern), Germany Plot: Body lost or destroyed *Former burial location Maintained by: Find A Grave Originally Created by: HistoryBuff Record added: Nov 30, 2002 Find A Grave Memorial# 6973853 And call me crazy, but I found this sort of poking around, still don't quite know what to make of it...... But would like to know more, its not exactly easy to read HEBEL, FRANZ ----- Sources: WC Vol 21, pp. 750-751 Mary's Comments: 11/21/63, was in Room 2380, Hotel Adolphus, Dallas, TX. Sent telegrams to Porto Alegra, Brazil, 11/21/63, at 7:42 pm and 9:30 pm. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXI pg xxiii Found in: Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits October 21 1963 3011 749 Copy of a Western Union telegram from Mr and Mrs Harry Garber to President John F Kennedy dated November 18 1963 3012 750 Copy of a Western Union telegram from Hebel to Kurashiki Wilcox Exhibits No. 3012 and 3013 Porto Alegre (Brazil) First National Bank of Boston End Generally speaking, Kurashiki is a city in Japan......Ostensiby called the "Venice of Japan" because of a canal that has been associated with the city since the 1600's. Earlier I mentioned Posner, not quite by accident..... When Dick Russell published On The Trail of The JFK Assassins, he devoted a couple of pages to Gerald Posner's work regarding Josef Mengele, who, apparently was very much alive in 1963. He raised the point that....Posner played a curious role, basically "clearing" U.S. intelligence of any untoward conduct in letting the "Angel of Death" roam free. For an expert on the narcotics trade, Posner was noticeably quiet on the subject of Mengele's suspected drug dealings from his Paraguayan hideaway-- trafficking that found him in liason with the Corsican mob, which was long utilized by the CIA and, ironically enough, recently linked in a BBC documentary to the Kennedy assassination. see pages 202-203 - On The Trail of The JFK Assassins Over the Christmas holidays I had stumbled upon a book entitled A Nation Betrayed entitled A Nation Betrayed. The Chilling True Story. of. Secret Cold War Experiments Performed on our Children. and. Other Innocent People. by Carol Rutz see http://my.dmci.net/~casey/ 1961 Canada Survivor Contact used alias Father Joseph Egypt Escaped Israeli Agents while preparing to go to Crete 1962 Brazil Serra Negro 93 miles north of Sau Paulo with Stammers' and buys a farm called Santa Luzia Returns to Paraquay Viet Nam Survivor Contact on ship Hope Kitchener in Ontario, CA Rabbi sites suspicious man using name Joseph Menke Canada Survivor Contact used alias Father Joseph Upper Parana July Paraquay receives extradition request and he moves and assumes name of Dr. Fritz Fischer 1963 Walter Reed Survivor Contact New Mexico Survivor Contact, Albuqerque Milan, Italy Xmas Eve meets son in Italy, using Alias Dr. Gregor Gregory 1964 Russia Survivor Contact New York Survivor Contact Detroit, MI Survivor Contact 1965 Monaca, PA Survivor Contact Mt. Hood, Oregon Survivor Contact Upper Penn., MI Survivor Contact END I would venture to say that the media being interested in allegations like those of Carol Rutz would be like having a new investigation into the JFK assassination..... The only people who really know were the ones who were there....

I am posting this here because it is the only thread on the Education Forum which mentions the Hohenlohe family. It will probably not make any sense to the reader unless one has some degree of knowledge of aristocratic families, and their often bizarre relationships to the intelligence netherworld..... Sam DiPino told Carlos Bringuer that it is possible that GARRISON will try to connect an ex-Nazi, name unknown, to the assassination of President Kennedy. The ex-Nazi was said to have been "big in propaganda," to be living in Mexico City, and to be one of the heads [sic] of the CIA in Mexico. This latter comment could mean a principal agent rather than a staff employee. One possibility is Maximillian Egon HOHENLOHE https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=101443&relPageId=40 END Miami Herald, The (FL) - January 14, 1984 Deceased Name: ALEXANDER HOHENLOHE , 65, VISITING PRINCE About 50 persons attended funeral services for Prince Alexander Hohenlohe, a descendant from Austrian and Polish nobility, Thursday at St. Vincent's Catholic Church in Delray Beach. Prince Alexander, 65, who had been visiting his daughter, Catherine Jacobus, died Monday of a heart attack at her Delray Beach home. The family members are related to the Hapsburgs, former rulers of Austria and Hungary, and are distant cousins of Prince Philip, husband of Britain's Queen Elizabeth, said Jack O'Brien, a friend of the family. Jacobus said her father lived most of his life in Marbella, Spain. William Lorne of Lorne & Son Funeral Home said Prince Alexander was an investor. Survivors in addition to his daughter include his wife, Princess Patricia Wilder Hohenlohe, known in American show business as a comedienne who appeared with Bob Hope under the name Honeychile Wildera; a son, Christian Alfred Hohenlohe, former treasurer of the Smithsonian Institution; a brother, Prince Victor Hohenlohe, retired head of Engelhard Industries in Europe; and several grandchildren. end Associated Press Archive - January 19, 2004 Deceased Name: Prince Alfonso Hohenlohe -Langenberg, founder of Costa del Sol luxury resort, dies at 79 Prince Alfonso de Hohenlohe-Lagenburg, one of the leading names of the Costa del Sol jet-set scene and founder of the luxurious Marbella Club resort, has died. He was 79. He died of prostate cancer on Dec. 21 in his family home in Marbella. Born in Madrid in 1924, he was the son of Germany's Prince Maximiliano de Hohenlohe-Lagenburg and Spain's Piedita Iturbe, marquise of Belvis. He spent his childhood between the palace of his grandmother, the Duchess of Parcent, and the family castle in Bohemia. When he was 22, his family fortunes had diminished considerably through the loss of properties in Czechoslovakia because of World War I and in Mexico due to the Mexican Revolution. Many of the family's possessions in Spain also suffered damage during the country's Civil War. In 1947, Prince Alfonso started to buy land in the quiet Andalusian beach town of Marbella and sold plots to various friends with names like Bismarck, Rothshild, Metternich and Thyssen among others. Marbella became a posh resort on the jet-set circuit after the French Riviera. In 1954 he founded the Marbella Club, the Costa del Sol's first luxury hotel, which lured cinema stars such as Rock Hudson, Kim Novak, Gina Lollobrigida, Grace Kelly and James Stewart. Known to like the good life, he made money building luxury clubs and tourist hotels, always aimed at attracting socially elite in Mexico, the Bahamas, the Philippines, in the Arabian Gulf and in Spain. In 1955 Hohenlohe married Princess Ira de Furstenberg, with whom he had two sons, Christopher and Hubertus, and divorced her five years later. He married again in 1970 with British actress Jackie Lane, with whom he had a daughter, Princess Arriana Theresa Maria and whom he divorced in 1984. During the next decade he had a daughter, Desiree, with the Swiss ex-model Heidi Balzar. In 1991, aged 68, he married British Marilys Haynes, who died in 2000. In recent years, he pulled out as constructor in Marbella and moved to the Andalusian town of Ronda, where he succesfully turned his efforts to wine-making. He's survived by his two sons and two daughter. Associated Press Archive Date: January 19, 2004 HOHENLOHE MAXIMILIAN EGON VON Germany 1941-1945 Switzerland 1942 * Hersh,B. The Old Boys. 1992 (102-3) * Lee,M. The Beast Reawakens. 1997 (19-20) * Loftus,J. Aarons,M. The Secret War Against the Jews. 1994 (89-90) * Simpson,C. The Splendid Blond Beast. 1993 (122-4) * Tully,A. CIA: The Inside Story. 1962 (39-40) END

A few days ago, I watched Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Stopped Worrying and Came To Love The Bomb. In some ways it is a bizarre postscript to the Kennedy Assassination, at least I think so. PS If you read the following, you might even agree with me. http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=33526 One thing I do seem to remember is that, in the novelization of the film (which is different from the novel Red Alert on which the film is loosely based), the "prefix code" used by General Ripper is different: rather than "POE" -- Peace on Earth/Purity of Essence -- it was "JFK," which was explained as an acronym for "Joe For King." I never quite understood that, but now I wonder if the novelization had already gone to press before the assassination. (It's been thirty-some years since I read it, so I don't remember the full explanation, but I do remember the "Joe for King" bit.) ETA: From IMDB: Quote: Another reason for cutting the custard pie fight at the end of the film was that at one point, President Muffley took a pie in the face and fell down, prompting Gen. Turgidson to cry, "Gentlemen! Our gallant young president has just been struck down in his prime!" Stanley Kubrick had already decided to cut the pie fight by the time of President John F. Kennedy's assassination, but this line (or possibly even the whole sequence) would certainly have been cut anyway due to its eerie similarity to real events. END Much along the same lines, I also finished Stephen King's 11/22/63, which, whatever criticism one has for the book, boring can't possibly be one of them....Apologies for not getting to the point sooner. But for those who are familiar with Al's Diner, George Amberson, Sadie Dunhill or a particular day in September 1958 and the Butterfly Effect......one cannot read those pages and not think alot about General Edwin Walker, and if you subscribe to wife Tabitha King's take on November 22nd, instead of Stephen's you can't claim to understand everything about the Walker shooting unless you've read. The Walker Shooting Revisited [page 206 Dick Russell - The Man Who Knew Too Much] Along those lines, one of the names that is central to Russell's Walker segment and seems to get lost in the shuffle of Army Intelligence's types, whereas everyone seems to know about James W Powell and his photography in Dealey Plaza on said day, is listed below....... BERNICE ANGERS HUMAN, BERNICE ANGERS Born 10/05/ 1912 Died 04/02/2008 Bernice a gardener, tennis player, wife, and mother went to visit friends and loved ones in heaven April 2, 2008. Born in Bay City MI., she lived as a child in Detroit where she played professional tennis until she moved to Ft Worth, Texas. and became a bank secretary. Ft Worth was where she met and married Billy Harley Human. They raised three boys during their marriage of 57 years. They lived in San Antonio during the war years, after which they settled in Dallas. In the early fifties they moved to the White Rock Lake community where they lived until the early 80's. Bernice and Bill were always active in the Catholic church and stayed involved in Democratic politics. She was the co- founder of the Shore Acres Beautification Club "The idea of a garden club in this area was conceived by Mrs. Arthur Brawner and Mrs. B.H. Human in the backyard of Dottie Brawner's home, as the two of them tended small children by the swings". After the sale of the family business, Human Oil and Supply Company, they moved to Laguna Vista Texas. They returned to Dallas in 1995 where Billy Human died in 1997. Even at age 95, Bernice remained independently living on her own and driving to church, until 6 months ago when illness forced her to a nursing facility. Her constant companion after Bill died, was her sweet dog Topps. Bernice is survived by George and Marilyn Human of Richardson, Jud Human of Dallas and Mike and Sue Human of Dallas. Grandchildren are David and Pam Human of Richmond, VA. Laurie and Dennis Roach of Albuquerque, NM, Chris and Jennifer Human of San Antonio, TX and Bethany Human of Columbia, SC. Bernice was also the proud great grandmother of 8. Bernice in survived by Bradford and Jan Angers of Riverview, FL. Burial services will be held in San Antonio, TX. In lieu of flowers, the family request that memorials be made in Bernice's name to the charity of your choice. Services are pending at Mission Park Cemetery in San Antonio. Dallas Morning News, The (TX) Date: April 6, 2008 Record Number: 20339677-1 © Copyright, 2008, The Dallas Morning News Bradford J. Angers (ASA) The following is from the Second Infantry Division History Book Bradford J Angers, World War II; Enlisted Regular Army. Born in Detroit, Michigan. Graduated Detroit Institute of Technology with B.A. in Sociology/Psychology. Enlisted thru Fort Sheridan, Illinois. Took Combat Engineers Basic, Fort Lewis Washington, Expert M-l Rifle, cal. 45 Pistol, M-3 Sub-machine Gun, Bayonet and Grenade. Attended Signal Corps Training school and was trained in, code, cryptography, teletype and Teletype Decoding, at Fort Monmouth New Jersey. At that time most of the training was directed at developing agents for the O.S.S. and other security related groups. He attended Military Information & Education School and was assigned to Special Services at Camp Stoneman California. He sailed U.S.S. Gen. E.T. Collins to the Philippines. He served with the then top secret 9th Detachment Second Signal Service Battalion of the Army Security Agency in Luzon, APT (Asiatic Pacific Theatre of Operations), AFWSPAC (Armed Forces, Western Pacific Theatre of Operations). All service there was and still is Classified. With service connected injuries, he returned stateside on the U.S.S. Hospital Ship Hope. He was assigned to Second Signal Army Security Station, Petaluma, California. Again, most of this operation was Classified. He was finally discharged from Madigan General Hospital, Fort Lewis, Washington in 1947. He is a Life Member VFW Post 6796, Dallas, Texas. A Life Member and Past Commander of DAV Chapter 57, Dallas, Texas. A Life Member of The Second Indianhead Division Association, and served as President of the Dallas/Fort Worth Branch 1988 and '89. He was married to Janet Louise Lord in 1957. They liveed in Dallas, Texas for over 40 years and own several companies building sub-miniature electronic surveillance equipment for law enforcement and Government agencies. He also owned his own Public Relations firm as well as a computer oriented advertising and publishing network. He is active in local government, charities, has appeared on television and is adept at public speaking and is highly sought after for his expertise in computer technology. He has been listed in several ?Who?s Who? (ie: Who?s Who Among Students (?48-51), Who?s Who in Texas (?73-?74), Who?s Who in American Business, etc. He and his wife now live in Riverview, Florida. http://www.military.com/HomePage/UnitPageHistory/1,13506,104471|772685,00.html

David, John, Evan; You probably don't realize how much your words mean to me. I have a point to make that may or may not surprise you, and that is my JFK collection...documents, books, videos articles, numbers, we'll lets say 1,000 is a starting point. I don't say that to boast, but to point out that the chronology of assassination related information ascends chronologically to include practically everything that is important to me..... Maybe that is why I am still optimistic about the issue of resolution. I will give you an example.... The Oswald/Ruby issue...... I believe there was something regarding Jack Ruby about two-weeks before the assassination, that provides a clue to who was directing the convergence of Ruby and Oswald at least on Ruby's end. Jack Ruby did something that day he hadn't ever done in the almost 17 years that he had lived in Dallas. It was the fact that Jack Ruby rented a PO Box..... Oswald had rented his Dallas PO Box on November 1, 1963 I learned this initially by reading that claim by Michael Eddowes.....I was skeptical at first thinking that Ruby had been a PCI for the FBI in 1959..... But back then Ruby had used a safety deposit box as part of his PCI informant setup [in Dallas in the period August 21, 1959 and September 4, 1959], during the period when he was acting as a Potential Criminal Informant (PCI) for the FBI’s SA Charles T. Flynn. It does appear Eddowes was correct in saying that this was Ruby’s first use of a Post Office Box since moving to Dallas in 1947. I'm still working on it, but this isn't exactly Trivial Pursuit, at least not to me.

David, I appreciate your interest in my participation here at the Forum. I have too much invested in ascertaining the real truth of the JFK assassination, to just up and leave. I get a little bit frustrated at times, because of the condescending, patronizing analysis of my posts by some of the experts who don't contribute much to the revealing of facts, but have plenty of caustic, snide remarks if what they read does not fit in with their opinions about what happened. Some of the areas that are of intense interest, Oswald and ONI, details about the real Jack Ruby and his role in the JFK assassination, and German connections to the JFK assassination, as well as MK-ULTRA, are areas I have done extensive research on......I can make my case, which I fully intend to continue doing...

This is a passage from Secrets and Lies - A History of CIA Mind Control & Germ Warfare - Gordon Thomas; detailing the activities of Dr. Ewan Cameron, William Buckley, the CIA Station Chief, who was murdered years later, Dr. Gottlieb and Dr. Harold Wolff before and after November 22, 1963. I will say I have read over a hundred accounts of various "persons" accounts of November 22, 1963, and this is certainly among the most compelling and important. I do not believe everything in this segment is true, but I am sure a lot of people have never seen this, which is why I am posting it, page 263 .....After Dr. Gottlieb had decided to send Dr. Wolff and his two associates to Montreal to reassess the value of Dr. Cameron's work, he sent a "MOST-SECRET" message to the telex machine in Buckley's office in Saigon, saying that three more "medical specialists" would be arriving to conduct further "research." Buckley was to ensure there were sufficient numbers of "subjects" for testing. Afterwards, Buckley was to return with the specialists to Langley. When the message arrived, Buckley was out of Saigon on a field trip on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Named after North Vietnam's legendary leader, the trail was the supply route long which men and supplies from the North reinforced the Vietcong guerrillas. Buckley had placed his own "assets" along the trail, men the Vietcong called the my-nguy, American puppets. If caught,they were tortured and executed. Buckley had lost scores of my-nguy over the past year. The purpose of this trip was to find replacements for them. He would make the usual offer — in return for working for him he would arrange for them to go to America with their families when the war ended. Buckley returned to Saigon to find Gottleib’s message. He set about making preparations. There may have been a time when he would have questioned what he was being asked to do. “But long ago I had learned that if I did not do it, it would probably make no difference to the outcome of the war in the end. America had supremacy in its fighter-bombers, napalm and rockets. But the guerillas knew how to take advantage of the terrain. However hard the Stars and Stripes newspaper tried to promote America’s eventual victory, the truth was that every night our transports left with our dead in our body bags for home. MK-ULTRA had become a big, bad, black game which men like Gottlieb and Cameron and others like them played because they wanted to believe. Not actually believed, but wanted to,” Buckley later recalled. Nevertheless, on that tropical energy-sapping day in November, he went to Bien Hoa Prison and arranged for some fifty of Vietcong prisoners to be placed in the same holding pen Dr. Gottlieb’s surgeons had previously used for their human guinea pigs. The next day two staff doctors, a pathologist and a psychiatrist from Pacific State Hospital in California arrived. Each had brought with him a portable ECG machine. That afternoon the first dozen prisoners were strapped down on tables. Each man was given six electroshocks. In the next two hours all fifty were similarly shocked. After six hours they were brought back and given a further twenty separate shocks. Twelve hours later the process was repeated. In between, the psychiatrist questioned the prisoners. He was trying to establish if the shocks would produce an admission from each prisoner that he had come to realize that Communism was “bad.” All the captives said was they feared further treatments. The doctors raised the settings on the ECG machines. Within two days the first prisoner was dead. Ten more succumbed. Autopsies carried out by the pathologist showed the men died from heart failure. That night Buckley flew with the team back to Los Angeles. Hardly anyone spoke on the long flight. “It was more than a sense of having failed. It was the feeling that they should not have started in the first place,” Buckley decided. Upon landing, he found a message from Dr. Gottlieb ordering him to take the next flight to Mexico City. Waiting at the airport was the hypnotist who taught him in New York. He handed Buckley a sealed envelope. It contained Dr. Gottlieb’s instructions for Operation Mindbender. This centered on turning a Mexican CIA informer, who was now suspected of working for the KGB, into an assassin. It would involve the hypnotist putting the man into a trance and Buckley then taking him to the restaurant where the local KGB station chief was known to dine. The agent was to shoot the Russian. In the expected confusion, Buckley was then to shoot the Mexican. To hypnotize the agent, a suite had been booked in the city’s Sheraton Hotel. For two days Buckley and the hypnotist waited for the Mexican to turn up. He never did. It was only later that Buckley learned the KGB resident, suspecting something was afoot, had arranged to have the man flown to Cuba. His fate there remained unknown. Operation Mindbender took almost $4,000 more out of the MK-ULTRA budget. During his stay in Mexico, Buckley met with the CIA’s station chief in the city. The man told him that the only excitement in his work had been the discovery that a former radar operator in the U.S. Marine Corps, having defected to the Soviet Union in 1959, had shown up in the city in their company of a KGB officer. They had made several trips to the Soviet and Cuban embassies as well as mixing with various groups of Cuban exiles in the city. The station chief said he had filed a report on the matter but there had been no follow-up from Langley. The man was Lee Harvey Oswald. Arriving in Langley, Buckley was told by Dr. Gottlieb that he was to travel with the assignment team to Montreal. The team took the morning flight from Washington to Montreal arriving there in the early afternoon of November 22, 1963. The newspapers on the flight were filled with accounts of President Kennedy’s progress in Texas and how he appeared to be healing the factionalism between State Governor John Connolly and Senator Ralph Yarborough, which at one time had threatened to destroy the Texas Democratic Party. By the time the team reached the Institute, the cab radio announced that the Kennedy entourage had landed at Love Field, Dallas, and the presidential motorcade was heading into the city. Dr. Cameron greeted his visitors and led them on a tour of the wards. At each bed, Dr. Wolff flicked through a case file before questioning those patients who were conscious. Others lay there, eyes opened, staring fixedly, too regressed to communicate. The physicians did not bother to disguise their disquiet. Dr. Wolff repeatedly asked Dr. Cameron: “Are these typical of your successes?” He was told they were good examples of “positive treatment” either from “depatterning” or “psychic driving.” Buckley heard Dr. Wolff murmur to his colleagues he had a feeling “We are living in two worlds. Cameron’s and the real one.” They had reached South-Two when a nurse ran from a day room shouting, He’s been shot! Someone shot the President!” Dr. Cameron stared at her: Lassie control yourself. What nonsense are you saying?” Buckley followed by Dr. Wolff, ran to the day room. On the television screen, an announcer had interrupted the afternoon soap opera with news from Dallas that President Kennedy had been shot. For long minutes they all stood before the television listening to the updates coming over the screen from Dallas. What made it even more surreal for Buckley was the giggling that came from one of the patients slumped in a wheelchair. Dr. Cameron ordered a nurse to take the man outside. Finally came the news that Kennedy was dead. Buckley’s first response was to ask himself, how could this have happened? Where was the warning? Then he remembered the MOST SECRET report he had received before leaving Saigon. It was a CIA appraisal of the threat level to the President, based upon the growing opposition to the Vietnam War. Could this be the start of a second civil war in America? Beside him, Dr. Wolff was whispering to his colleagues. Buckley caught some of the words, “enough...let him get out...back to Washington....seen enough.” Dr. Cameron was speaking: “There is much more to see. You can’t leave like this! I have important projects to show you. New ones to discuss.” Buckley remembered later that the protests in Dr. Cameron’s voice had been “unreal. Here we had our President assassinated and he was talking about his projects. Wolff was right. The man was out of touch.” Thirty minutes later, with his visitors heading to the airport, Dr. Cameron sat alone behind his desk. Before he left, Dr. Wolff had said he would not be recommending that the Society for Investigation of Human Ecology support any new grant applications for the Institute. On the way to the airport, Dr. Wolff told Buckley: “This madness has to stop. What I have seen today makes it clear that Cameron is a liability. His links with us have to be severed.” When Buckley returned to Langley, he found the Agency gripped in a collective paranoia. The belief in an elaborate plot to murder the President had taken root early on when as Associated Press wire message announced that a Secret Service agent had been shot and killed in the vicinity of the assassination. The message had been quickly corrected. But it took many hours before the CIA was ready to let go of the idea that the Russians had struck. That belief was reinforced when Buckley mentioned what the station chief in Mexico had told him about Lee Harvey Oswald, the man who had been seized for carrying out the killing. “In moments,” he was to remember, the whole of the Operations area was in uproar. Men were sent to Mexico, to Florida, to infiltrate the Cuban community. To anywhere where Oswald had been, may have been, could have been — and sometimes where he manifestly had not been.” Buckley found himself back at his analyst’s desk trying to figure out the genesis of a plot. On a TV set, he watched the unfolding drama: Lyndon Johnson taking the presidential oath of office on board Air Force One; the bloodstained and grief-stricken Jacqueline Kennedy beside him, the body of her husband in the aircraft hold. Buckley watched the plane land at Andrews Air Force Base a little over two hours later, then the separation of the old and new; Johnson taking the helicopter ride to the White House, the Kennedy entourage following the coffin to Bethesda Naval Hospital for an autopsy that continued through the night. Just before dawn the casket, covered with the American flag, was carried into the White House and placed on a catafalque in the East Room. Buckley could barely suppress his tears as Mrs. Kennedy knelt at the side of the coffin and hid her face in the flag’s shield of stars. For Buckley, like the rest of America and the whole western world, the next three days passed in a blur. He ate at his desk, catnapped on a couch, didn’t bother to wash or shave as he tried to make sense of what happened.On the fourth day he was ordered to get some proper rest. Instead he sat before the TV in his apartment and watched the funeral. Like the assassination, it was televised around the world. The next day, he was back at Langley, “trying to pick up the pieces again.”Richard Helms took him aside and said the assassination had been the work “of a lone nut. We are now certain of that.” The day after the President’s funeral, Buckley was back in Montreal with a sealed envelope from Dr. Gottlieb. Buckley handed over the envelope to Dr. Cameron explaining he was to read it in his presence. Dr. Cameron did as he was instructed. “Have you fully understood the contents, Dr. Cameron?” Buckley asked. The psychiatrist nodded. It was the only indication he had heard the question. Buckley reached across the desk and retrieved the letter and its envelope. He replaced the letter in the envelope and resealed it with a piece of Scotch tape. “It was written on Cameron’s face. “Finished.” Buckley was on the next flight back to Washington. Dr. Cameron’s secretary, Dorothy Trainor, would recall that, almost overnight, he became aged and withdrawn. On November 26 he dictated to her a memo to all research staff that they were to wind up their projects. he told Dr. Roper, “They are out to get me.” He didn't amplify on who "they" were.

Can someone repost the photo Jack is referring to here? Also link to Armstrong's files of ONI? Thanks, BK Sometimes contextualization in this case in the context of ONI history, can give a little more direction to being pointed in the right direction, hopefully, you know what that means. A few months ago, probably over a year ago, I saw the following book, but didn't have the resources to get it.... World Turned Upside Down By (author) Durning, Marvin B.; Foreword by Massie, Robert K. In 1955, after assignments at the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and on board a destroyer, Marvin Durning arrived at ONI's office in Munich, Germany. During this year, he participated in the final stages of transforming Germany from a defeated enemy into a respected democracy, reestablishing its sovereignty, and shepherding its membership in NATO, which also involved rearming America's erstwhile foe. At that time, Munich, like Berlin, was a nerve center for the Cold War. It was crowded with U.S. troops and German and Slav refugees. "Radio Free Europe" called it home. The city was, Durning writes, "a jungle of competing secret intelligence organizations: British, French, American, Russian, West and East German, Czech, Polish, and others." Beneath the calm surface of everyday life in Munich roamed agents and double agents who witnessed defections, kidnappings, interrogations that ended in death, and assassinations by bomb explosions and by poison dart. "World Turned Upside Down" is Durning's account of such activities. Durning served as the de facto executive officer of a small office of German intelligence specialists tasked with routine navy issues. But they were doing much more. Known only to his commander and himself, former admirals of the defunct German Kriegsmarine attended secret meetings at his office, where they worked to plan and create a future West German Navy. In addition, Durning served as a liaison officer to the Gehlen Organization, the supersecret German intelligence and espionage organization, and he recounts their activities here. 「Nielsen BookData」より [目次] * Foreword by Robert K. Massie * Author's Note * Prologue * PART I - The Mystery Office in Munich * Chapter 1 A Pre-Dawn Drive to Airbase Furstenfeldbruck * Chapter 2 To Germany and to Munich * Chapter 3 Val Rychly - "the Skipper" * Chapter 4 The People of Possart Platz 3 * Chapter 5 "Another Intelligence Organization" * Chapter 6 A Highly Productive Intelligence Office * Chapter 7 U.S. Navy Visitors * PART II - Life in Munich * Chapter 8 Friends Made and Housing Found * Chapter 9 Max's Party * Chapter 10 Erika Muller * Chapter 11 Freedom to Publish - East and West * Chapter 12 Some Vignettes of Germany * Chapter 13 Visits to Dachau * PART III - Germany Transformed - Enemy to Ally * Chapter 14 The Gehlen Organization - Reinhard Gehlen and James Critchfield * Chapter 15 The Admirals and the New Germany Navy * Chapter 16 The Generals and the New Armed Forces - Sovereignty Restored, NATO * Chapter 17 Adenauer to Moscow, September 9-13, 1955 * Chapter 18 Return of German Prisoners of War * PART IV - Enduring Friendships * Chapter 19 Helmuth Pich * Chapter 20 Max Pamitzki * Chapter 21 Vladimir Rychly * Epilogue * Appendices: * A. Max Parnitzki's Brief Curriculum Vitae and Experience as a Prisoner of War * B. Max Parnitzki's Iron Cross * C. U.S. Navy Letter of Recommendation for Max Parnitzki * D. Letter from Undersecretary of Navy to Val Rychly * E. Two Pages from V.L. Rychly Travel Diary * Glossary * Selected Bibliography * Acknowledgements. The book is good in the sense that it seems like a what you see is what you get, it doesen't seem to get to big into opinions about critical issues, sort of like Jack Webb ala Dragnet...just the facts maam.... The reason I highlighted CDR Vladymir L. Rychly, USNR is due to the authors claim that Rychly worked closely with Jim Critchfield re the Gehlen org......Durning says Val retired from the Navy in 1962 and died in 1992; is buried at They, Hannelore and Val, rest peacefully at Walfriedhof Grunwald...Grunwald Forest Cemetery. If you're into those German connections, then you might at least want to peruse google books...... My last post on Kerry Thornley's training at Atsugi got a big yawn....I swear to God, I am about an inch away from saying Sayonara..... Signed Don't really give a.......

Yes, except one, [the Bringuier incident] was more of a procedural move, whereas in the John Hurt call, the veritable _hit had hit the fan, albeit procedural, so I would say that makes the two equivalent in my mind. Having been focused on the assassination, in one way or another, practically my entire life. The most enduring emotions I have regarding the JFK assassination, aside from the fact that it changed history in a manner we will never fully realize, it is Jack Ruby, he cheated the world out of knowing the Oswald who only lived 46 hours and 50 minutes after President Kennedy was assassinated.

Thanks for your input Mark, I appreciate the interest, one point I had addressed before with regards to why resolving the John Hurt issue may be the biggest challenge to researchers concerned the possibility of records that were destroyed that may have documented such a relationship. At what level would such a area have been handled. Well considering my view that Oswald was working for ONI or the State Department, as I believe. An adjunct to such a possibility would have related to Oswald's trip to the USSR, which, would have involved by necessity the involvement of such black-ops veterans such as James Jesus Angleton ie CI Soviet Realities Section. Arguably the following document is the ideal example is the following document, entitled DESTRUCTION OF ANGLETONS FILES https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=16066 This URL may not work, as the Mary Ferrell website seems to have changed their method of viewing documents. If that is the case, go to CIA Misc. Series Documents.... Pay special attention to this document, especially the last three pages, as there are references to various projects and Cryptonyms, which I certainly was not familiar with. If one believes the JFK Assassination was a conspiracy, the document provides an exhaustive record on how to remove ersatz, smoking guns from documents that are extremely lengthy.... These are my thoughts regarding this particular document, other areas of interest as the 50th anniversary of the JFK Assassination approaches, a refocus on certain areas such as MKULTRA.....For another example of how increedibly strange some of the original files in the WC are regarding this See WC Document 65...while some may yawn JAMES FRED MUSTO is at the very least the type of person who is reminiscent of Eugene Dinkin, perhaps even more so. Irrespective of how unimportant the reader deems it to be he was interviewed by an Army CIC agent named Jewel Phegley regarding the incident at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas.... A Colonel Walter W. FADE, Commanding Officer, 31st Engineer Batallion, broke the story that Musto traveled to Washington D.C. in order to prevent this assassination. For as long as two days, Musto states, he did not realize what he was doing. His list of the five persons and the group involved in the assassination included the Black Shirt Fascists of Italy..... I always keep up with what is going on with the world of books, some are very good that are not well known or mentioned. The following may or may not be in the category. If you have read the Candy Jones book, in my mind a similar book but more in depth especially regarding some who, what, where, when-type material is: A Nation Betrayed: The Chilling True Story of Secret Cold War Experiments Performed On Our Children and Other Innocent People - Carol Ruiz Unholy Alliance [second Edition] - A history of Nazi Involvement with the Occult - Peter Levenda World Turned Upside Down: U.S. Naval intelligence and the Early Cold War Struggle For Germany - Marvin B Durning Secrets & Lies: A History Of CIA Mind Control & Germ Warfare - Gordon Thomas Willy Brandt People and Politics - The Years 1960-1973 Translated Form The German by J. Maxwell Brownjohn The last book is probably pretty hard to find but is the best companion to researching Cryptonyms and US Intelligence Projects I have ever seen. It is called Encyclopedia of the U.S. Military - Harper and Row 1990 Ballinger Publishing Company Cheers

What was it about getting Oswald to Cuba and Russia, and just who all knows what he is alleged "about to do" See Pavel Golachev letter to Oswald 30 September 1963 see CD 75 page 257 A letter dated 30 September 1963 and addressed “Hello, Lee!” and signed your friend PARLEL [Robert: Pavel Golavachev?] Letter states writer “was worker in that summer” and “I finish my television set ten months ago.” Writer remarks Oswald and writer can see TV it when Oswald arrives in Soviet Union. The writer also says: “Dear Lee I want to warn you. There appears to be a possibility of yours coming here, but one never knows what might happen You must consider all attentively formerly then arrive again in USSR. You will have to think it over. Socialism - a social system of production for use and not for profit. Apparently that trans-Atlantic trip will/be your last. It is for you to decide. Is there anything I can do for you? I gave your regards/your friends at the factory “ Cheers I am still amazed nobody found the last paragraph interesting enough to at least consider the implications. If the reader interprets the wording of the letter as I do, to paraphrase, it seems as if Pavel is saying......Apparently that possibility of yours coming here...[i.e. if you take the trip] it will be your last..... The inferences are not limited to one possible scenario, if I am accurate. Did Pavel believe if Oswald was really going to return to the USSR, the Soviet's wouldn't let him leave? Or does he [Pavel] have some sort of inside skinny on events to occur about seven weeks from September 30, 1963. Either way, I would, like a lot of things, like to know what he meant by that. But getting back to the thread, or not. While it is pertinent in my mind to the whole John B Hurt cryptographer issue, the following document is about the John David Hurt, whom Lee Farley posted about on this thread,a few posts earlier and his connection to Mel Grimes...... From Joe Backes Batch Documents Document # 180-10093-10496 is a two page report from the Veteran's Administration. It is an outside contact report to the HSCA, dated 9/27/78. "Today at the Veterans Administration Liaison Office in B328 Rayburn Building I reviewed the VA file of John David Hurt. "The file contained numerous documents and medical reports from Hurt's entry into the Armed forces in 1942 to the present. It catalogued the history of Hurt's severe psoriatic arthritis which resulted in 100% disability and amputation of several fingers. It stated also that Hurt was hospitalized in 1955 and 1959 for mental disorders, including alcoholism, schizoid reactions and manic depression. "By the time of the assassination in 1963, Hurt had lost the use of both hands and the amputations were done in 1964. "The file contained no information pertinent to the assassination. It contained copies of Hurt's separation papers which stated that he had served in military intelligence in 1945 as an investigator: `Served in the POTT as an investigator conducting investigation of accidents, sabotage, etc. and supervised activities in which civilian and military personnel or property are involved. Collected and safeguarded evidence.' "Nothing in the VA file contradicts anything Hurt told us about his background when we interviewed him on April 11, 1978." They recommended contacting Aleveeta Treon and attempt to pin down the source of the allegation that Oswald tried to call Hurt on 11/23/63. It is signed by Surell Brady. END So, I am not sure if everyone else is aware of the above document, but I had seen it a couple of years ago, and sort of forgot about it...... I guess the point I am trying to make is that I can't believe there was any real connection, [both parties, Oswald and John D., knowing each other, or having a relationship of some kind.] I mean IF the information contained in the document is true, the guy couldn't even use his hands in 1963 and within a year they had both been amputated! I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but a covert relationship between John David Hurt and Lee Oswald is to me, analogous to the scene in the Movie Its A Wonderful Life when Jimmy Stewart and his guardian angel Clarence, are having a drink in the bar, where Clarence says, "But, I keep telling you I'm your guardian angel." George Bailey [stewart] says "We'll you look like the kind of angel, they'd send me." And even though I am trying to make a serious point, I do think the above further muddles the waters regarding determining if Oswald just got the two John Hurt numbers from the switchboard operator that he spoke with, or if he did "know" him in some loose sense of the word. I believe very strongly in approaching any area of controversy, dispassionately, but for the life of me, I can't see any real logical conclusion to come to other than David Atlee Philipps or someone like him mentioned John B Hurt prior to the assassination and Oswald was so filled with anxiety about maintaining his cover, at least to the Dallas Police, he pulled Hurt's name out of his head in trying to think of someone who might violate the protocol of "what happens to agents, not when their cover is blown, but being posited as the assassin of JFK and not wanting to be left pi_ _ing in the wind.

Greg, I hope you didn't misconstrue what my reasoning was in writing what I did. It was not intended as a rebuttal , or an attempt to argue against your views, but merely a collection of some of my observations on the whole affair. And an atttempt, on my part to act on, from what I have kept up at your website, between the Dream Team; The only way to develop a comprehensive outlook is to thrash matters out through going over the key points. Which can be very constructive in arriving at some type of consensus. I am glad to see the points you developed in response to what I wrote, and believe me, they are well taken. Regarding your question, I tend to believe Oswald was dyslexic, I just don't see how he couldn't have been after looking at some of the arguments for that point. My only addition to anything in that area is the analysis by the soothsayers for both sides of the "Historic Diary" issue, made, I believe a pretty good case that parts of it seemed to have been written in large chunks at a time, which, my take on that is that it reinforces the idea that Oswald was a man on a mission for a branch of the U.S. government when he went to the Soviet Union, either ONI or the State Department. Best Wishes....Robert

Glad to hear about the book Greg. I have always been disappointed that no one has ever bothered to look into the genealogy of the Tippit surname, to determine if the Jack Tippit of Westport, Connecticut was even related to the family of J.D. Tippit in Dallas, one of the central premises to, maybe, not the credibility of, but at least the development of the story. Nothwithstanding, the fact that a bloodline is more or less academic, the story began when an "unknown caller," telephoned the family of Jack Tippit, with, the account of the other Oswald family and "Harvey" Oswald that became the crux of Armstrong's theory; Coupled with the legion of multiple Oswald sightings [ever heard the phrase...Kilroy was here?] and discrepancy's in the Warren Commission's examination and in some cases "seizure" of Oswald historical records and various disagreements over where Oswald was at various periods in the years before the assassination, the theory has its proponents, and one of the bylines of that among Armstrong's constituents, if you will, is becoming very upset when someone tries, [in their mind] to point out weaknesses in the theory. Ostensibly, if the US government ever fessed up about "what was" the "Oswald Project," and the dynamic of some key references to "Harvey Lee" Oswald on certain documents, and then the whole situation in Mexico City in early October '63, with a false Oswald involved, we wouldn't be having this to deal with. I am still convinced there were two "Oswald's" that left the Texas School Book Depository between 12:31 and 12:40 C.D.T., on the 22nd of November, but unfortunately no-one had a chance to ask the person running into the Rambler, what his name was...lol. But that doesen't mean I believe his name was Harvey Lee Oswald. Another problem with the theory, as far as I am concerned is that on the surface if you accept the theory as it is presented the person of Harvey Oswald was a communist, was he not, so you get back into that old caveat of the Soviet's were behind that. If there was a real Harvey Oswald as Armstrong described him, his background IMO was a false one, because then the Soviets would seemingly have been behind the JFK assassination; and that argument is the biggest myth about JFK's death that has ever been perpetuated, next to Oswald not being the gunman who did it. I also am in agreement with Armstrong's point about intelligence ops back in the day, in various countries using doubles, as in the case of Cuban's Antonio and Patricio DeLaguardia or false identities, such as Kolon Molodi being given fake docs by the Soviet's to spy on the British and establishing his false identity as the deceased Canadian Gordon Lonsdale, who had died, according to his parents circa 1932. To me, the chronology of Oswald and the documents issue notwithstanding, I still can't walk away from Armstrong's theory; I suppose it is the old argument, of trying to prove that something "didn't happen." So I suppose, I will be one of the first to read Greg's book, when it comes out.

I don't want to sound like I think everybody is missing the boat on this, but when you get to, I believe it is the youtube site, [there was a second version of this clip] someone wrote that the "Oswald" character is standing "behind the man with the gun." and in that short clip, there is only one second in the film where "he" faces the camera, which is at eleven seconds into the video; the person everybody is joking about is not, from what I can tell relevant to the Oswald character. Also as Mr. Phelps alluded to, it seems like perhaps it was posted by Wim Daankbar. Also when you get into the youtube site, I saw something that led me to believe that the video, Mr. Phelps [why do I associate that name with the original Mission Impossible tv series?] posted is taken from the beginning of a 1969 Italian documentary, roughly translated as "I Due Kennedy or The Two Kennedy's." That video is very compelling, it is full of, apparently, original footage from Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination, from what I can tell...I haven't had time to go through......I Due Kennedy, it is approximately one hour and fifty minutes long and recorded in Italian. But I plan on viewing it over the holiday's. See

Hopefully, Bill Kelly can tell you a little about Jack Martin, although there are several, but you are referring to the Jack Martin who filmed in Dallas on November 22, 1963.... And let me tell you from having a detailed examination of this guy, he is in the middle of everything.... It would not be an exaggeration in the least to say that he had a "sixth sense" about the importance of Lee Harvey Oswald, and yes, I am being facetious....Or rather, I believe he was just too "in the right place at the right time," that day for it to be "dumb luck." The guy even had New Orleans connections....He is, how do you say, "all over the place." Regarding the title of this thread and it's "seemingly incompatibility to a plot that was hatched by CIA Cold Warriors and provided a role to the Secret Service and Army Intelligence and local right wingers;" the whole essence of the JFK assassination is summed up in one revealing insight. There is not a point of historical reference to the type of assassination that resulted in JFK's death.... Although the Lincoln assassination.....if you believe John Wilkes Booth didn't have confederates and there was collusion within Lincoln's cabinet, is something of that nature. The point I am trying to make, is that for the sake of argument, IF and count me among those who believe the premise; IF the assassination of JFK was a massive conspiracy.....the planners and specifically those who controlled those at the lower level, were black ops specialists.... In other words, think of it as, can the average American even conceptualize what kind of cast of characters from A to Z would be involved in such a thing...No! Another point and I detest using the following as analogous, but it just fits too well. The scene in the movie JFK where Senator Long [Walter Matthau] is on the jet with Jim Garrison [Kevin Costner] and the quote: If I were investigatin', I'd round up the 100 best riflemen in the world and find out which ones were in Dallas that day." The point is, if the braintrust of the US Government had acted as they should, [and read Manchester's Death of A President, to understand all the bigwigs in Washington were extremely worried as soon as Oswald was arrested that the Dallas Police Department would not ensure Oswald's safety; period.] The possibility of a Soviet or Cuban plot was ostensibly the dominant fear, to read the official histories, but the persons who knew black ops never voiced a concern over a black operation or a banana republic style coup d'etat. But what should have happened is what did eventually happen in the Philippines after Marcos' ouster in the "peaceful revolution" which resulted in the ascension of Benito Aquino's widow Corazon Aquino. She ordered an investigation and [bTW, there are striking similarities between the assassination of Benito Aquino on the tarmac of the airport in Manila and what happened in Dallas] When Corazon Aquino convened the investigation, it led directly to the conviction and imprisonment of a large number of Marcos' General's and members of the intelligence network. What should have happened is our government should have had enough integrity to investigate ALL the Intelligence agencies and the Cabinet. With what we know now and what could have been done, the same result could have happened as what took place in the Philippines in the aftermath of the short administration of Cory Aquino, as a matter of fact it was that event which led me back to doing JFK research. I realize their are a lot of people who just read the books and examine the theories, but what I am really trying to say is that the assassination of JFK WAS a black op, and if the proper response had taken place, C.D. Jackson, Allen Dulles, David Atlee Phillips, and Richard Helms should have been detained and treated as suspects...... But the rub is, is that there was so many who knew in advance and who wanted it to happen of that group that the idea that those sacred cows in the intelligence agencies would even be questioned, let alone detained, was as about as possible as Goldwater defeating JFK in 1964 had JFK lived. Because to a great degree, THEY WERE THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, albeit Dulles had been fired by JFK over the BOP, he did get a pretty nice cameo as a member of the Warren Commission That Germanic themes pop up everywhere in the whole post assassination investigation is a clue in itself. Lastly, as I write this, a bill has been introduced that, at some point will probably wind up on Pres. Obama's desk. The bill has a provision for the "indefinite detention of American civilians without cause and without trial." I find it ironic that one of the defenders of Lee Harvey Oswald was the ACLU and it is their heads up, that brought this fact to my attention in the first place. If you are interested here is one of several URL's... http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/9956-senate-bill-to-ok-indefinite-detention-of-us-citizens-without-charge-trial In what may be a tale too bizarre to be believed by millions of Americans, the U.S. Senate appears ready to pass a bill that will designate the entire earth, including the United States and its territories, one all-encompassing “battlefield” in the global “war on terror” and authorize the detention of Americans suspected of terrorist ties indefinitely and without trial or even charges being filed that would necessitate a trial. The bill could come to a vote as early as today, according to a bulletin issued by the American Civil Liberties Union. The legislation “goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans,” the ACLU statement said, describing the bill as having moved toward passage while most Americans were celebrating Thanksgiving and a long holiday weekend for millions of U.S. workers. “The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself,” the ACLU warned. Labeled the National Defense Authorization Act, S. 1867 was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and approved in a closed-door committee meeting, according to the ACLU statement. Where was the media on all of this "Could come to a vote today"......?

Jim, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, I really think you should be more active here, but I understand how all of that goes...I had prepared a lengthy response to your email, but it was not substantive enough, just the old trying to find definite connections to John B Hurt via Lee Oswald, we both know the dynamic of ONI, the Signal Intelligence Service, of which John B Hurt and Harrod Miller were both members and all the NSA related matters, as one fast forwards to 1963....BTW Can you clarify or state the address from Hurt's obit was definitely New York City? That would be a big help, even though it seems like a minor detail..... I think instead of rehashing all of that, I might engage in a little thinking outside the box regarding "Big Fish." Although lot of people don't realize it Dallas, Texas in 1963, while the capital of the right wing, just as much as Memphis, Tennessee or Mobile, Alabama or geographical areas where the JBS or Minutemen were strongly associated with, did have at least one decidely different characteristic. It was the home of the Dallas Council On World Affairs, [there is a pertinent reason for going into this] From late October 1963 to the day of the assassination of JFK the following persons are known to have visited Dallas, this is by no means everyone, but at least some very noteworthy ones...... Allen Dulles Richard Nixon Governor George Wallace Leon Uris end So, the "insiders" spinning the Kennedy Assassination into a "Commie Conspiracy" was the order of the day. And there are the other weird anomalies, such as George H W Bush reporting a potential security threat to JFK to the Secret Service "after" JFK had already been assassinated. Furthermore, to an unsuspecting public when all the other government officials parrot the "looks like the Commies Did it" line and the Oswald Life Magazine cover photo, [it didn't matter to the great unwashed that no true revolutionary" would be holding a copy of The Worker AND The Militant at the same time] What played out was a psychological aspect of "I just don't believe or own government would have had anything to do with it," never mind the fact that just a few years later the Oswald as "ComSymp" was already falling apart. Ed Butler admitted the Oswald WDSU interview was more or less a charade, and many years later when Warren DeBrueys was interviewed when asked about the Converation Carte Blanch interviews by the Church Committee or maybe it was the HSCA DeBruey's said "don't think he wanted to do that." The lone eyewitness that saw "Oswald with the rifle," Howard Brennan, had vision problems and that key piece of evidence, was more or less a joke. One resident "Oswald did it - idiot" loves to belabor the point about CE 399 to death while never even mentioning that the Warren Commission could not even force Tomlinson to say what they wanted him to say, what he did say was that HE DID NOT FIND THE BULLET ON Connally or Kennedy's stretcher, but simply on "a stretcher," with the obvious connotation that it was placed there......Now 48 years later, we know that Ruby WAS at Parkland Hospital, no-one has ever proven that he didn't go in, and there is Rodolfo Godinez a BOP veteran who was working in inhalation therapy, and has never been asked what he was doing after the motorcade reached Parkland..... At any rate, Dulles had been coming to Dallas for quite some time, his last trip was around October 29, 1963..... What Kind Of Man Reads Playboy and What Kind Of Big Fish Hated Kennedy I wrote the above to make the point that once in reference to a question regarding "what is pornography," a Supreme Court Justice, or similar type person said, "All I know, is that I know it when I see it." The same dynamic exists for researchers, when looking over one of many documents, you see a reference, and while the contextualization or context may be missing you know that your getting a glimpse of the reality, like when your reading an interview with Silvia Duran or Eusebio Azcue, and they are adamant that the "Oswald" that visited them requesting a visa, "had blond hair, and his face got really read when he got angry." I believe the conspirators who were the magicians behind the Kennedy assassination and helped frame Oswald as a Communist in 1963, and later amended as a crazy person* a couple of decades later when the fact was well known that Oswald wasn't a Communist, but posing as a Leninist Marxist; most had either a "Philippines," "ONI" "Japan" or "OSS" background.....The enduring question is whose bidding were the magicians doing? The most popular single individual is LBJ, he was thrown under the bus in E Howard Hunts last book before he died, there is a dispassionate student of the assassination if there ever was one...lol. While the truth is that other figures such as Richard Nixon, 1960 running mate Henry Lodge, and later JFK Amb to Vietnam, Dean Rusk, and McGeorge Bundy seem to either [Nixon] have been sufficiently tarnished by other scandals, that he as well as the others are just not sexy enough to be part of the clique.... And when I say OSS, I am referring specifically to the China Burma Theater, ie Kounming. J. Walton Moore, E Howard Hunt or OSS scientists such as Henry Murray * In every society, the definition of sanity and madness are arbitrary--- are, in the largest sense, political. -Susan Sontag The fact of the matter remains however that while Fletcher Prouty had "issues" he was a liason between the White House and the Pentagon in the critical period..... and the area where Prouty's recollections can be verified is in the area of masters of black-ops or psy-ops.There is Colonel Lansdale see Huk Rebellion......in the same time frame CENTO and SEATO were organizations not untrod by John Foster Dulles There is C.D. Jackson There is Allen Dulles.....Mary Sherman, associations with Carl Jung.....esoterica....hypnosis....MKULTRA, ARTICHOKE, destruction of MK ULTRA records, destruction and confiscation of many records through the actions or inactions of Richard Helms, Stanley Gottlieb. See June 1963 KUBARK COUNTERINTELLIGENCE INTERROGATION peripheral ties to persons tied to ASC...such as Noel Field, Stephren Fritchman.......ala "persons considered to have been Communists in 1963, but There are intrigues in such areas as Project Open Skies, see Gentleman Spy, The Life of Allen Dulles, Open Skies interfaces such areas as the crash of the U-2 spyplane, that is commonly thought to have been shotdown over Russia, while naysayers, including myself believe it was sabotaged probably at Peshawar/Ankara.... and there are to this day the small group of individuals who believe that the Dulles/Angleton faction may have had a divergence with President Eisenhower's Peace Summit, which, of course was ruined by the U-2 incident. Oswald again, had "threatened" to turn over secrets to the Soviets re the U-2, but also "all these years later" it has been confirmed that Lee did not have access to the restricted areas at Atsugi, see JTAG If, as it is alleged over and over again in the Warren Commission documents that "all of our codes had to be changed," then it was the equivalent of the $5,000 hammer purchased by the Pentagon, and more than likely a ruse, or, a cover story, concealing that fact. There are Clair and Henry Luce in the early 1950's era Clair was for a time U S Ambassador to Japan and later was US Ambassador to Italy. Italy was where William Harvey was stationed in a drunken fog, ostensibly at the time JFK was assassinated. As well as being the place that Angelo Bruno was returning from when he was arrested by the FBI upon returning to the United States in the aftermath of the JFK Assassination. Clair and Henry "walked out of the White House while John F. Kennedy was present" at a social function before the assassination, after allegedly being referenced as a "warmonger," by JFK himself. There are definitely persons who agree that Angleton definitely had access to the milieu of organized crime figures in the pertinent time period. What was it about getting Oswald to Cuba and Russia, and just who all knows what he is alleged "about to do" See Pavel Golachev letter to Oswald 30 September 1963 see CD 75 page 257 A letter dated 30 September 1963 and addressed “Hello, Lee!” and signed your friend PARLEL [Robert: Pavel Golavachev?] Letter states writer “was worker in that summer” and “I finish my television set ten months ago.” Writer remarks Oswald and writer can see TV it when Oswald arrives in Soviet Union. The writer also says: “Dear Lee I want to warn you. There appears to be a possibility of yours coming here, but one never knows what might happen You must consider all attentively formerly then arrive again in USSR. You will have to think it over. Socialism - a social system of production for use and not for profit. Apparently that trans-Atlantic trip will/be your last. It is for you to decide. Is there anything I can do for you? I gave your regards/your friends at the factory “ Cheers

Is it possible that the Oswald-Odio introduction is a part of period anti-Castro activity, but not strictly a part of the assassination planning? That it points toward conspiracy against JFK, but was not an attempt to frame Oswald? If not, it seems like an act of desperation, a flailing to create a confusing association for Oswald. To what end? What was the motive for creating an Oswald-Odio connection? Would an established connection bolster the image of "Oswald" as an extrapolitical nutter, willing to shoot either Castro, Walker, Nixon, or Kennedy? Putting Oswald in the company of two plotters of any stripe is enough to quash the plot's usefulness to an anti-conspiracy investigation. What, if anything, was planned for the case of an investigation intended to establish conspiracy evidence? Again, the introduction seems like a desperation move, unless the Oswald-Odio introduction is just an infiltration exercise outside the assassination plotting, just an attempt to entrap Odio in anti-Castro plotting for reasons unrelated to the assassination. Was the Oswald-Odio introduction just a sideline use of Oswald's spy and provocateur talents? Arguments against? Bumped, because I'd like to know what people think is the motive for the Oswald-Odio introduction. I understand why the incident helps prove conspiracy in the assassination. I edited this post several times to be more exact than in the original version Tommy Graves quotes in Post #159. Because of their father, the Odio sisters would have been held in a certain respect in the anti-Castro exile community. But what connections or influence did the Odio sisters really have, or bother to exploit? They seem, to my understanding, retired at that point from political activity, reclusive even. Sylvia certainly did not exploit the Oswald incident after the assassination, becoming more fearful and withdrawn instead after the Warren Commission experience. This is what I mean when I say that approaching them was a "desperation move" in any assassination plotting. Was that the best introduction any assassination plotters could have cooked up for "Oswald"? Well, the father was also in prison in Cuba for harboring some Castro assassins in a plot that involved snipers. He was, I believe, a member of JURE, and you have to put that into the context of the other orgs - DRE, Alpha 66, etc. Sylvia wrote to her father in prison and mentioned these men - before the assassination, and he wrote back and gave her advice on this issue. If you want to figure out what it all means, I think that you have to put the Odio visit in the context of the Bray-Bendix incident - in which Bray, an employee of Bendix who is said to know something about the equipment failures that led to the sinking of the nuke sub USS Thresher - Bray was visited by three men in suits who claimed to represent JFCOTT - Justice for the Crew of the Thresher, which went down on JFK's watch. These guys from JFCOTT threatened the life of the President and John Connally, as former Navy Sec. Was this a similar attempt to establish another motive for the assassination, similar to the Cuban one also laid out in a smilar fashion? Also, Odio was pals with John Martino, who may have known Sylvia's father from prison, and Father McChann, the Catholic priest who was assigned to cater to the spiritual needs of the Cuban community in Dallas, and had also heard the story of the Cuban visitors from Sylvia before the assassination. McChann was also possibly entangled sexually with both Sylvia and another parishioner, Sullivan, who wrote a book about the whole affair. McChann split Dallas for New Orleans where he spent time in hibernation at a seminary and then left the priesthood for Thailand, where he lives today. When Martino came through Dallas on his book tour he met with Sylvia and was on stage with Mchann. BK JFKcountercoup bump Although I have come to the conclusion that an Achilles heel for researchers, is their lack of knowledge regarding integrating "original Warren Commission documents" into the known persons associated with the assassination as the decades passed by; [i will elaborate later in this post] there are very compelling persons, whom a lot of researchers are not aware are mentioned in the original Warren Commission documents. Just a few examples. The Soldier of Fortune types. Richard Case Nagell.....more important than a lot of folks realize, Field Operations Intelligence, really existed. See my thread on Cryptology and Field Operations Intelligence Garrett Trapnell....he was hospitalized as a mental case in Florida in the period after the assassination, and gave statements, regarding anti-Castro Cuban's on Flagler Street and rifles..... Frank Fiorini aka Frank Sturgis see CD 59 There are also persons mentioned like Stephen Fritchman see A Certain Arrogance, George Michael Evica pages 34-37, 84, 86, 87, 128, 159, 282. Here is something that may pertain to another thread, I simply do not have time to read every single thread on the Forum OSWALDS LEAVING MOSCOW JUNE 1, BOARDING MAASDAM AT ROTTERDAM JUNE 4, A http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=97285 a check in the amount of $10.00 dated October 30, 1963 payable to CORE a check in the amount of $10.00 dated October 30, 1963 made payable to NEAR EAST FOUNDATION a check in the amount of $10.00 dated October 30, 1963 made payable to Wilderness Society check payable to COMMITTEE OF 100 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=259 end But the reason I wanted to add to this thread is one of the main items of interest to me regarding John Martino in the context of the original Warren Commission documents was "Juan Martin." Those who know the habitual pattern of misspelt names by the Warren Commission of important names, will perhaps understand my curiosity.... Examples here..... 8. Commission Document 6 - FBI De Brueys Report of 8 Dec 1963 DALLAS FBI REPORT re: Oswald page 155, he DE MOHRENSCHILDTs stated were taken in Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia He advised that one LOUIS McNULT0N Jr. a younger individual more so than DE MOHRENSCHILDT was an associate of DR MOHRENSCHILDT note McNulton is undoubtedly McNaughton other example Bill DeMeris=Bill Demar end EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTE WHEN RESEARCHING WARREN COMMISSION DOCUMENTS In Mexico City there were five CIA disinformation agents, four of them run by Phillips: Dr Luis Conte Aguerro, Herman Portell-Villa, Angel Fernandez Varela, Nestor L. Carbonel and Eduardo Borrel Nouvarros. Phillips also had two other agents: Salvador Diaz Verson and Emilio Nunez Portundo..... 941. Commission Document 945 - SS Rowley Letter of 5 May 1964 re: Walter J. McChann, 9 pages page 3, Walter J. McChann stated that he never attended any political meetings of the Cuban groups; see JFK obits receiving any assistance from the Committee He could not recall the name of this Cuban but he believes the Cuban is still employed at Parkland Hospital The other contacts Heitman had with him were drop-in visits Heitman had with him..... He stated that the Catholic Cuban Relief Committee “cut through all these groups” 942. Commission Document 946 - SS Ernest Aragon Report of 5 May 1964 5 pages re: Sylvia Odio, Rogelio Cisneros Diaz Synopsis Re-interview of Rogelio Cisneros Diaz [JURE] revealed that the Uruguayan is definitely identified as Juan Martin On April 27, 1964 Monsignor Fitzpatrick, Catholic Diocese of Miami was reinterviewed regarding Father Walter MacHann of Polish extraction..... He further identified himself as ROGELIO CISNEROS DIAZ and that the name “EUGENIO” is his designated war name. He stated that the JURE office is located at 1878 West Flagler Street. Cisneros stated he had been to Dallas only once and at that time had been only accompanied by Jorge Rodriquez Alvareda http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11342 more Said the FPCC sent wires to President Kennedy and President Dorticos of Cuba re the Cuban hurricane disaster. Street had changed its name to Frank Pais Revolutionary Movement On March 15 1962 Carlos Rodriguez Quesada advised that his organization had withdrawn from the CRC He said that his group had participated in a "hunger strike” in Bayfront Park, Miami, March 10-12, 1962, protesting the lack of action on the part of Miro and the CRC. headed by Jose Miro Cardona. Cardona is a Cuban exile who was formerly dean of the University of Havana Law School and Prime Minister of Cuba during the early days of the Castro regime. The In April 1963 Jose Mire Cardona resigned his position as head of the CRC The 30th of November Revolutionary Movement (Fernandez faction) publicly supported Miro’s action [Robert: extremely informative passage in Paul Bethel’s The Losers pages 399-402 re Cardona’s deteriorating relationship with JFK Administration] On November 22, 1963, the executive committee of the Los Angeles chapter met to determine its position in view of the assassination of President Kennedy The (BAFPCC) Bay Area Fair Play For Cuba Committee was formed in San Francisco in the latter part of 1960 Vincent Ted Lee letter to Lee Harvey Oswald “We feel that the South-east is a very difficult area to work because of our lack of contacts. Our only south-eastern chapter right now is that in Tampa, Florida which I originally organized before coming up to work in the National office.” next page In 1963 the FPCC-CC had no offices in Chicago. It recieved mail through Post Office Box 4474, Chicago, 80, Illinois Aldo Raimundo Pedraja Ortiz, after coming to Chicago in June 1963 he organized a delegation of JURE Nine individuals comprised the leadership of the JURE. Five of these persons resided in exile, and four remained in Cuba. The leadership of the exiles consisted of the following: Manuel Ray Rivero -Puerto Rico Jose R. San Martin - Puerto Rico Raul Chibas - New York City Jose-Gomez Rodriguez -Miami Rogelio Cisneros-Diaz - Miami http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=37 Los Angeles Branch of JURE Manuel Ray Rivero aka Manuel Ray Jose M. Estevez Antonio Arias Gonzalez, Propoganda secretary for JURE at Miami Louis Bretos, 3115 Eleysian Fields, New Orleans, Louisiana, advised on April 20, 1964 that he is a Cuban national and is the delegate of Alpha 66 in New Orleans http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=55 At any rate Hosty did interview "Juan Martin" in a terse one paragraph interview, that I cant find the link for..to me it looked as if it could easily have been contrived....The only JUAN MARTIN I ever found is listed below...it is one of those items I never got to the bottom of interms of whether he could have been the same person..... Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 28: MIRR - MRP)/ NARA Record Number: 104-10193-10273 CABLE: AMBANG 1 WIFE ADVISED LATE 23 MAR MRP REP JUAN P MARTIN MORAN, ENGINEER MINISTRY PUBLIC WORKS http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=38521 But I believe it is the blurb below, that although extemporaneous of the Odio area, that is probably the most important in terms of how it fits in with the actual assassination..........Ominous HSCA Segregated CIA Collection microfilm - reel 62 Rockefeller Commission, Cuban Revolutionary Council. Nosensko CABLE-DRE REPRESENTATIVES JUAN MANUEL SALVAT, JOSE MARIA LASA AND FERNANDO GARCIA CHACON VISITED DR.MIRO CARDONA 12 MARCH ADVISING THAT HAVING RECEIVED NO ARMS FOR FIGHTING COMMUNIST REGIME THEY CONSIDER MEMBERSHIP CRC VALUELESS AND DESIRE WITHDRAU. MIRO REQUESTED THEY POSTPONE DECISION AND APPEAL TO PASSAVOY 3. WAVE POLICY HAS BEEN TO SUPPORT GROUPS. IF DRE DOES NOT RETRACT DECISION DOES HQS DESIRE CONTINUED SUPPORT AS INDIVIDUAL UNIT? 4. OSVALDO SOTO POLO AND CARLOS RODRIGUEZ QUESADA UNDER ARREST DISORDERLY CONDUCT WILL UNDOUBETDLY ATTEMPT REPRISAL RIF#: 104-10227-10298 (03/13/62) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=34433 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=156147 All for now...

Yeah, John, here's the link. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11626 Robert

I wanted to add a couple of things about the John Hurt's North Carolina and the John B Hurt cyptographer issue..... I have read about everything there is to know about the John Hurt, who was the former Army Counterintelligence agent which definitely [obviously] connects to Lee Oswald sitting in a Dallas jail, before he was wasted by Jack Ruby..... The frustration for me is that "the John Hurt who was in Army Intelligence, just doesen't fit to "Lee Oswald calling his handler" to say "what do I do now, their framing me for killing JFK". Whether you agree or disagree with me, is the readers perogative, but to make my point 'if' THAT John Hurt had on November 22, 1963, a top-secret Pentagon clearance, the whole JFK assassination saga, takes on a more logical hue. Even if John Hurt's "paranoia" regarding organized crime in North Carolina was some sort of FBI smear tactic, and it may well have been, the guy was not exactly the classic definition of a spook, by any means. Even though both Oswald and the Paine's had contacts with good ole boy type's who weren't "profoundly" different. The was Ruth's, Colonel Wilmeth, GDM's buddy Colonel Orlov et cetera... And I want to be very clear, my interest in the cryptographer John B Hurt, came after I read here on the Forum, Jim Root's interest in him, and I found out for myself, that NSA individual's who examined Oswald's document's regarding material such as "Questioning Eyes," and the excision of letters therof, would led to Blake, Friedman and other NSA personages, who would be more than aware of a real "fit the bill" John Hurt, who was NEVER mentioned in Warren Commission documents, and should have even for the factoid that BTW "there is a John B Hurt who is a legend at NSA," was just too damn much of a coincidence to have been "irrelevant." So everyone has to make their own decision about who is more important, although for the sake of argument, they both are still very important; I believe that however Lee Oswald obtained that name, is one of the top five questions, that he was never given a chance to tell the world at a trial. So at any rate, I made a special point to read the New York Times for August 9, 1966. Not just for Hurt's obit, which was only two sentences longer than the teaser on the New York Times preview on google. Here is the exact wording. New York Times August 9, 1966 John B. Hurt, Retired Aide of National Security Unit John B. Hurt, retired dean of the linguistics staff of the National Security Agency, died Monday morning of a heart attack. He was 62 years old and lived at 330 Third Avenue. Mr. Hurt worked for the Government agency when it was the Signal Intelligence Service of the War Department from 1930 to 1963. He was the agency’s expert on Oriental languages Mr. Hurt is survived by his widow, Mrs. Ana Dritfell Hurt, a Russian-born cellist; his mother, Mrs. Anna Hurt of Wytheville, Va.; two sisters and three brothers. As an addendum, I recognized 330 Third Avenue as surely being in New York City.... from streeteasy.com 330 Third Ave. Manhattan N. Y. 10010 Located in Gramercy North, 330 Third Ave was constructed in 1964 and converted to a cooperative in 1984. It has 202 units and is a full service 24hr doorman building. 330 Third Ave’s facade was pointed and replaced both elevators in 2007. It also boasts a new laundry room, bolier and roof. Steps to Gramercy, Madison Square and Union Square Parks. Centrally located near transportation, tons of restaurants, nightlife,and all conveniences. Pied-a-terres, co-purchases and dogs up to 40 lbs allowed. Regarding the address. Just because the website says the street was constructed in 1964, does not mean that on November 22, 1963 no-one lived on that street. Can anybody supplement the address information....? Correct N Y City, incorrect.....some other city?

LOL Odd or old? jk of course--bump again. Both! Hey Greg, let's get together for a cup of something at the Pannikin (LJ) or Lestat's (Abnormal Heights) or Winston's (OB) or the Longboard Bar and Grill (PB) sometime... Hey, we can talk about the JFK assassination! --Odd Old Tommy O'Pepper Fine. "I'll have my girl give your girl a call and we can do lunch..." OK Greg, but I gotta warn you-- I'm gonna be really, really angry if I find out my girl's your girl. LOL --tommy pages 173-74 From The Man Who Knew Too Much (2003 Edition) Russell: At my last meeting with Richard Nagell in 1984, he said he was sure that de Mohrenschildt was murdered before he could testify before the House Assassinations Committee. 21 I wondered then and still do whatever happened to the de Mohrenschildt-Oltmans tapes. Something very weird was going on around de Mohrenschildt in the months after I last saw him. Later, I came into possession of a two-page typed statement signed by de Mohrenschildt in Brussels on March 11, 1977, in the midst of his having vanished. In it de Mohrenschildt wrote that "while staying at Oltmans I had the impression that I was drugged and later I thought that travelers checks were exchanged. . . . He wanted to sully me into admitting things I did not do." Then, when Oltmans scheduled a mutual luncheon with a Soviet official, de Mohrenschildt said he called an old friend "in despair and asked him to contact the U.S. Embassy re my whereabouts if more pressure was put on me." He expressed fear that his wife's Dallas lawyer "collaborated with Oltmans." A few days after de Mohrenschildt's death Oltmans told newsmen in Washington that de Mohrenschildt had revealed to him: (1)Cubans "who thought Kennedy betrayed them at the Bay of Pigs," had fired the same time that Oswald did and (2) de Mohrenschildt had served as a middleman between Oswald and Dallas's wealthy H.L. Hunt oil family. "Mr de Mohrenschildt indicated to me very strongly that his ties upward were towards H.L. Hunt and downstairs to Lee Harvey Oswald,"Oltmans said in an ABC-TV interview. Beyond that the journalist refused to elaborate. 22 Later he would retract his comments about de Mohrenschildt and the Hunts. Gaeton Fonzi, the House Assassinations Committee investigator who never got the chance to interview de Mohrenschildt, told me how Oltmans claimed to have turned over seventy-nine pages of crucial documents-- "but it was mostly a bunch of crap. He said he didn't have the other stuff,it was back in Holland. Then he told other people that he wasn't going to give the Committee everything, but keep it confidential. Yet he's telling the press that he already did. It stank." 23 Then I discovered an FBI file reporting that Oltmans had contacted its New York office on April 3, 1967-- around the time the Dutch journalist first met de Mohrenschildt. It had Oltmans saying he "had received information from an informant in Western Europe that de Mohrenschildt was the principal organizer of the assassination of President Kennedy." 24. A curious thing for a "friend" to do to the baron. END I believe everyone needs to know the above.....Then everyone can decide how fascinating all of this new information is....Personally; I've had my chain pulled enough for one lifetime.

What influence would make a woman so partisan she could not support her own son-in-law's campaign for the office of U.S. president? You should be able to discern quite a lot about any person by learning more about the friends they have chosen. In this sense, Oswald, DeMohrenschildt and JFK were all riddles in the most elaborate charade in U.S. history of criminal investigations. You've been fed leading and softball questions all day by Accardo/Crown stooge Albert Jenner and you write that you are weary from it, so what better way to relax that evening (with no complaint), than by cooperating in an unethical Q&A with a WC commissioner, Allen Dulles? Werner Von Alvensleben's father was imprisoned in 1934 and nearly executed by the Nazis. The Werner Von Alvensleben who hosted Byrd in Africa, died in Portugal in 1998. It is said he was briefly a prisoner of war, but escaped by digging under an electrified fence. It is also written that the younger von Alvensleben was an OSS agent. He died in Portugal in 1998. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_von_Alvensleben ...In 1909 he married Alexandra Gräfin von Einsiedel (1888-1947). Three daughters, Alexandra, Armgard and Anna Caroline Harriet were born to this marriage, as well as a son named Werner.... https://www.google.com/search?q=brian+marsh+oss+Werner+Von+Alvensleben+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#pq=%22werner+von+alvensleben%22+%22consulate+general%2C+categorizing+the+various+documents%2C+%22&hl=en&ds=bo&cp=27&gs_id=ug&xhr=t&q=%22Werner+von+Alvensleben%22+%22*%22&tok=lbo1EVJr9uTWWxJTH3E8_Q&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbm=bks&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=%22Werner+von+Alvensleben%22+%22*%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=3fa79b40380ca6a5&biw=1280&bih=781&bs=1 The SS, alibi of a nation, 1922-1945 - Page 68 books.google.com Gerald Reitlinger - 1989 - 528 pages - Preview Schleicher used the same intermediary to approach Roehm as he had used to approach the army for a coup against Hitler in January 1933, a certain Werner von Alvensleben, whom Hitler referred to as 'Herr von A'. . http://www.amazon.com/Baron-Africa-Remarkable-Adventures-Unusual/dp/1571570675 Baron in Africa: The Remarkable Adventures of an ... www.amazon.com › Books › Biographies & Memoirs Werner von Alvensleben came from a long line of German aristocrats, yet far ...Imprisoned in Zimbabwe during World War II, he escaped by digging underneath an electric fence in the rain and made his way ... http://books.google.com/books?id=XEPKTdIFm-IC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=He+had+been+working+on+dangerous+missions+for+the+OSS+during+the+war+and+was+now+at+loose+ends.&source=bl&ots=NC3NN886MP&sig=gqw5qLYl0UyK5kVZw9Yg7u1oPAc&hl=en&ei=3WDVTqjqFc6ctwez7_T6AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=He%20had%20been%20working%20on%20dangerous%20missions%20for%20the%20OSS%20during%20the%20war%20and%20was%20now%20at%20loose%20ends.&f=false Fragments of our time: memoirs of a diplomat - Page 46 books.google.com Martin Joseph Hillenbrand - 1998 - 414 pages - Preview I obviously needed help and was fortunate to be able to enlist the services of Werner von Alvensleben, a white hunter and political refugee from Nazi Germany, who had been condemned to death in absentia. He had been working on dangerous missions for the OSS during the war and was now at loose ends. It turned out to be an association that was to lead us, when we arrived in postwar Germany, to some of the best and most enduring friendships of our lives. Werner worked untiringly, going through the archives of the consulate general, categorizing the various documents, and separating the wheat from the chaff. Some identified individuals and organizations with Nazi affiliations, both in Mozambique and in South Africa. I dutifully sent the interesting items back to Washington, but I never found out if they had served any useful purpose. I could not be surprised at the degree of South African involvement; many Boers seemed to have a natural affinity for the German cause. Our association with Werner and his lovely Portuguese wife, Bibla, caused some problems with the English and South African community in Lourenijo Marques. After all, he was a German, and no matter what his wartime record, it was not cricket to use him as we were doing. At first, the consul general joined us in efforts to rehabilitate him and his wife socially, but when the protests started, he quickly retreated, leaving Faith and me to take the flack. In any event, our time in Africa was coming to an ... http://books.google.com/books?id=eIMQIQGpVKoC&pg=PA105&dq=Werner+von+Alvensleben+died+in+portugal&hl=en&ei=80zVTqDeMsaItwfarfWqAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Werner%20von%20Alvensleben%20died%20in%20portugal&f=false The winds of havoc: a memoir of adventure and destruction in ... - Page 105 books.google.comAdelino Serras Pires, Fiona Claire Capstick - 2001 - 265 pages - Preview over the entire field management of a company called Safarilandia from the controversial Werner von Alvensleben, the "Baron" who ... German-born Von Alvensleben, who died in Portugal in 1998, arrived in Mozambique under highly dramatic Nemesis: The True Story of Aristotle Onassis, Jackie O, and the ... - Page 138 At the end of his testimony to the Warren Commisssion, de Mohrenschildt had received an extraordinary invitation from, as he put it in the book he was writing at the time of his death in 1977, “Jacqueline Kennedy’s mother and her stepfather, Mr Hugh Auchincloss,” to dine at their home in Georgetown. Apart from the Auchinclosses and de Mohrenschildt's wife, Jeanne, the only other known guest was the former CIA chief Allen Dulles. They talked about the assassination; at one point, Janet Auchincloss wept and embraced Jeanne de Mohrenschildt; later Dulles asked him a few astute questions about Lee (Harvey Oswald).” But as he was leaving that evening, Janet dropped her hostess’s charm and told him coldly: “Incidentally, my daughter Jacqueline never wants to see you again because you were close to her husband’s assassin.” I haven't mustered the enthusiasm to comment on the Archives of Willem Oltmans, I wouldn't believe a damn thing he said, so why would I be interested in what he wrote? Read what Dick Russell wrote about GDM's trip to Europe with Willem,and you might see what I am getting at..... BTW Has anyone looked into Oswald's subscription to Time Magazine, it expired in early December 1963.... The WC was so interested in.....how much money he was in possession of at the time, or some other reason that there are a couple of WC Documents where Time Magazine was contacted regarding this..... He wasn't making much money to be subscribing to Time Magazine, what with Marina and the kids and all..... What would a poor ex-Marine be doing reading Time Magazine, and why would it matter how much money he was making in July 1962? I'm asking for a reason